It is pointless if the BTC fees increases along with rise in BTC price!

[ene1980]

So in short everyone thinks that one should start using lightening network rather than using btc itself.
It's like using alternative for your stuff.

If you still want to send micro transactions using bitcoin you can still use them but you need to have the patience to wait for a much longer time, today i was able to send bitcoin at 3 SAT/B but it took a few hours to get the confirmation and you could get a confirmation within 20 minutes for just 51 SAT/B which is not that high either.

But would have been better if fees were in control. Like the traditional banking system.

A decentralized system with a block limit to function like a traditional banking system  .

[Swordsoffreedom]

that's why we should have to use popular and trustworthy service. I didn't here coinbase seized someones account without any reason, its true that they frequently ask for KYC for making their service more secured but I got them loyal.

Coinbase? Trustworthy? Lol.
Coinbase lock accounts and seize funds regularly without any reason. Their customer support is terrible, they do not respond to tickets, and users are left locked out of their funds for weeks on end. Just go and look at their subreddit - 50% of the threads are people with issues which are being ignored by Coinbase. I even saw this thread pop up in /r/bitcoin yesterday -
~ A user needs to farm enough Reddit karma so he can post a complaint on their subreddit because he has been locked out of his account for no reason and support are ignoring him. As he notes in his post, "That should tell you all you need to know about putting money in coinbase." This is what you call a "trustworthy" exchange?
Their ridiculous KYC policies doesn't make anything more secure - if anything, it makes it less secure for you. It helps them to stay in the good graces of the government, but it means more and more of your data is being sold and shared with third parties.

Maybe everything he said is true or not true, I'm not affiliating coinbase and I'm not connected with them officially. as he(your mentioned person) is a victim and a general coinbase user like me that's why I will naturally be on his side. And I think his problem should be solved.

you will find some people in every service that they are harassed and give negative feedback. So I think coinbase is no exception, of course they have a lot of flaws. But they have a lot of users too, personally I got them loyal.

If you have to adopt centralised services just to use Bitcoin for your payments, then you might as well use PayPal.
Coinbase is by no means a suitable alternative to rising fees and any other services like it doesn't serve as a suitable solution in the long run. Services like that will provide you with lower fees since the transfer is done within their own database, but you're sacrificing the transparency and the privacy of the individual. There's no company that would ever provide you with free services to transfer, there must be some strings attached. If you want to focus on low fees, I rather focus the efforts on LN and similar implementations.
Coinbase is a prime example of a company that doesn't give it's user the control of their own coins. They often freeze accounts on the basis of tainted coins which are often built on unfounded allegations.

Agreed with you, they didn't give us private-key or seeds. that's why I don't prefer to use coinbase as main exchange or main wallet, it should be used to hold low amount of BTC to pay your monthly coffee bill.

[LogitechMouse]

There are 2 possible ways to transfer your Bitcoin faster than the normal transaction and possible lower transaction fees.

1. Lightning Network - I know that there are some who are using this already but this isn't being implemented in most of the wallets at all. Only few of them are supporting LN addresses.
2. Converting your Bitcoin into other coins - I know that this might give you more hassle but this might help you especially when the Bitcoin transaction fees are at its peak. Some though have conversion fees aside from the transaction fees of it so just do the math at least.

The 2nd one is most likely most of the people are doing right now. BCH, LTC, XRP, and DOGE are the ones with low transaction fees right now but quicker transaction speed.

[Eureka_07]

<snip>
I have observed many times whenever there is rise in the price it will proportionally increase the fees as well. BTC becomes useless if I want transfer my coffee bill worth $5 or lets say lunch of $50 bucks if I have to pay more than 10-15 USD for single transaction.
<snip>

You did really experienced paying 10-15 USD for a single transaction with $5- $50 input? Personally I never experienced that one.
AFAIK, the transaction fee is relative to the traffic on the mempool. The higher the congestion is, the higher the fee will become. I'm not really so sure, but that's what I think the reason behind it.
People are paying higher too become more priority on the mempool. Racing to be accepted first.

[ethereumhunter]

When I do not prefer the fees from bitcoin to buy something, I will convert my bitcoin to fiat, and I will use fiat to buy coffee or other things. I think it is not about how much we want to pay the fee, but how we can feel comfortable when we use bitcoin, whether we use the lightning network or not. When we use bitcoin for any reason, we should know that the fee will be there, and if we pay a small fee, we are lucky, and if we are paying a big fee, then we should consider that we help the network to run. You can set the fee by yourself, and you can determine how much fee you willing to pay without asking too high a fees or medium fees or small fees. It is so simple as that

[Vishnu.Reang]

There are 2 possible ways to transfer your Bitcoin faster than the normal transaction and possible lower transaction fees.

1. Lightning Network - I know that there are some who are using this already but this isn't being implemented in most of the wallets at all. Only few of them are supporting LN addresses.
2. Converting your Bitcoin into other coins - I know that this might give you more hassle but this might help you especially when the Bitcoin transaction fees are at its peak. Some though have conversion fees aside from the transaction fees of it so just do the math at least.

The 2nd one is most likely most of the people are doing right now. BCH, LTC, XRP, and DOGE are the ones with low transaction fees right now but quicker transaction speed.

I agree with the first suggestion, but not with the second one. I have tried the second approach and ended up with more loss when compared to the normal method. Coins such as BCH and LTC have low levels of liquidity and you won't be able to buy and sell them at the same exchange rates. For example, for purchasing them, you may be paying 1% higher than the market rate, and for selling them you may get 1% less than the market rate. Also, their exchange rates are very volatile and can go down by up to 30% in a single day if you are unlucky.

[witcher_sense]

The amount of transaction fees users pay to miners depends solely on the desire of the said users to be included in a specific block. How hard it is to be included in a specific block depends on supply and demand. The more people wanting their transaction to be mined faster, the higher transaction fees become, and the less space in a block for those who prefer the lowest possible transaction fees. Changes in bitcoin price usually make the demand for bitcoin fluctuate unpredictably, it causes uncertainty. In my opinion, people set fee rates higher than usual to feel less uncertain.

[7788bitcoin]

~
To get rid of these hassles you can keep very little bitcoin in these accounts. Just keep as much bitcoin as you need to pay monthly coffee bills, and other bills here so that you don't have to incur huge losses even if they freeze your account.

I am not using these third party wallets now but i tried coinbase and they had a default withdrawal fees which was much higher than the fees that was needed and with the price going higher i do not think that they will reduce that and if you are sending micro payments then you pay the same fees that is not feasible. It is better to use other mobile wallets with customized fees rather than using those wallets.

It is true. I agree that the lightning network is the reason for sending bitcoins of little value. If we want to pay for a cup of coffee for $ 5 using bitcoin, it is recommended to use a lightning network because the fees are very low, and transfers to other addresses are also very fast.

You need a lightning network opened by the coffee shop to send those payments as well. I am not aware of any store that accepts lightning network payments and the truth is that the adoption rate is really slow.

[tooofarout2c]

hi,
is MSTR a reliable way to invest in bitcoin? 
thanks for your reply

[ChrisPop]

I think at this moment Bitcoin acts more like an asset than a currency and should be treated properly. When an asset increases is so volatile like BTC is now, nobody will use it as day-to-day payment method for coffee or groceries unless he does not have any income in fiat to live from.

My opinion is that Bitcoin will make the transition to mainstream general use when it will be worth multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars per unit or even millions. At that price point I expect it to be somehow stable so we won't have these fluctuations in both price and tx fees. Until then, happy hoarding!

[o_e_l_e_o]

But they have a lot of users too

They have a lot of users because 95% of people in crypto exhibit the exact same mentality you just have. When faced with a company which is clearly not trustworthy, which pulls all kinds of shady stuff, which is taking advantage of their customers, which has terrible customer support, and so on, their response is to say "Well, I've never had a problem, therefore they are fine." What this does is ignores the fact that nobody has a problem with them until they do, at which point it is too late, and your thread on here or on reddit complaining you have been locked out of your account just adds to the ever growing backlog which is never addressed and other users ignore.

When an asset increases is so volatile like BTC is now, nobody will use it as day-to-day payment method for coffee or groceries unless he does not have any income in fiat to live from.

I see opinions similar to this one being repeated often, with no facts or evidence to back them up. The general feeling seems to be "Well, I don't spend bitcoin, so nobody does", which is completely incorrect. I spend bitcoin on a near daily basis. I buy everything from fresh meat and produce through to electronics. I could buy all these things with fiat if I wanted, but I prefer to use fiat to buy bitcoin, and then spend my bitcoin when I need to. Not only does this protect me against the ever decreasing value of fiat, as well as provide me greater privacy since my bank or financial institution is no longer keeping an itemized record of every purchase and spend I make, but it also helps to increase bitcoin adoption. It also saves me money in some scenarios, since a number of places I shop at offer a percentage discount on bitcoin payments since they don't have to cover credit card fees.

I know I am not the only person who does this. The places which I frequently spend bitcoin in person have a not insignificant number of bitcoin paying customers. If they didn't, they would stop going to the effort of accepting bitcoin.

[blckhawk]

I have observed many times whenever there is rise in the price it will proportionally increase the fees as well.

It is not that because Bitcoin's value rises and so the fee will increase as well. Fees depend on the number of transactions being made like now Bitcoin having expensive fees because there's a lot of people are now buying Bitcoin to enter with the trend and some are selling because they made an exit. Hence, it is not true that when a coin rises and so the fee it can also happen when a coin when it plummets because everyone will tend to accumulate. But if you want to reduce that fee there are few solutions like using a Bitcoin lightning network or try using a Native Segwit address or bech32.

[serjent05]

When do you guys think the fee structure will be harmonised at all the time points and price ranges?

This had been the concern of many small-time cryptocurrency enthusiasts.  I know the Bitcoin developer had been looking at this problem so that Bitcoin small-time users will enjoy the benefits that Bitcoin brings.  As a matter of fact, we have seen several developments including the segwit, lightning network, etc.. just to solve the congestion of the network that causes the transaction fee to surge.  And since we don't have any inside information on how this problem is being tackled by the developers, we don't know when this kind of problem will be fixed.

[lifeforcepools]

Fees should be reduced. Higher fees discourage new investors.

[philipma1957]

So in short everyone thinks that one should start using lightening network rather than using btc itself.
It's like using alternative for your stuff.

No issues, since we are in the cypto space and it has already given us more than enough in terms of value, returns or money making stuff at it's best one can tolerate that much of struggle. Lolz.

But would have been better if fees were in control. Like the traditional banking system.

Nope because it would kill off mining ⛏.

Also high btc fees help other coins such as doge or ltc.

If every btc transaction was 1 sat. The network could be flooded with 1 sat transactions using 1 sat fees.

350,000 x 2 sats would flood the memory pool.

I think that is only 0.07 btc maybe 0.7 as I may be off a zero.

but either way you can’t allow the entire network to be flooded so cheaply.

lightning network will slowly be adapted. and other coins are really good for moving small transactions.

ltc and doge are well established asic backed coins with low fees.

[2double0]

Nope because it would kill off mining ⛏.

Also high btc fees help other coins such as doge or ltc.

If every btc transaction was 1 sat. The network could be flooded with 1 sat transactions using 1 sat fees.

This is the best comment of this thread coming from a miner and even if not secure, it is true that high btc fees actually give a boost to other small crypto which were lost or transacted least compared to btc's daily transactions. This may increase transactions in altcoins and may increase their security too because more miners getting added daily to those coins due to higher profitability.

[Harlot]

And people are overly happy just because the price is increasing, honestly I though both segwit and lightning network will be enough by now to decongest the main network but for prices like this that we haven't seen before I think a lot of people are rushing in and making their transactions a priority that is why we see an increase in prices in fees. To answer OP's question I don't think it is pointless as long as you are just a hodler but for a user of Bitcoin I don't think it is even worth it using Bitcoin as a payment method during these times.

[ralle14]

You did really experienced paying 10-15 USD for a single transaction with $5- $50 input? Personally I never experienced that one.
AFAIK, the transaction fee is relative to the traffic on the mempool. The higher the congestion is, the higher the fee will become. I'm not really so sure, but that's what I think the reason behind it.
People are paying higher too become more priority on the mempool. Racing to be accepted first.

I guess a lot of traders won't hesitate to make their deposits whenever there's a spike in price like what's been happening in the last few months. I also paid $10 a couple of times this year it was the worst time to make a transaction because of the price, difficulty change and at the same time the hashrate going down made the situation even worse.

Fees should be reduced. Higher fees discourage new investors.

Reducing the fees would require everyone to use the same amount of fees and it's unlikely to happen.

[Alert31]

This is the main issue and huge cerebral pain for each bitcoin customers. You need to pay half from your exchange when you made a little Payment, I personally think that it's the awful truth in bitcoins and we may lose bunches of clients. There are many favorable positions of bitcoins we can make quick payments and sent the cash anyplace we need yet consequently we generally pay a high charge

Yeah, very true! That is why I always convert my bitcoin to other digital currencies like XRP and BCH before withdrawing because I can reduce the transaction fee in this process.

[odolvlobo]

Yeah, very true! That is why I always convert my bitcoin to other digital currencies like XRP and BCH before withdrawing because I can reduce the transaction fee in this process.

SFYL