12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for

[GazetaBitcoin]

12 years passed already since the launch of Bitcoin. And yet, most of people have no idea how it should be used, nor what Bitcoin is good for. Most of the users make a combination against the nature, using Bitcoin together with banks and centralized exchanges, having no knowledge about its libertarian and crypto-anarchic grounds. Without understanding that Bitcoin is here for helping them evade the slavery that governs and banks coerces them to, people do all they can to enslaves themselves, making an easy job for the elites which oppress them for thousands of years.

12 years ago Satoshi offered a very precious tool to humanity, tool which was able to set them free. Let's see how he was describing his invention:

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.


Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments.  While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services.  With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads.

[...]

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third  party.  Transactions that are computationally impractical to reverse would protect sellers from fraud [...]

He offered a method with which people could transact directly, peer-to-peer, avoiding any third party, no matter its name - govern, bank or other middleman.

Satoshi invented Bitcoin and gave it away for free, for helping individuals to have financial freedom, but people, in return, invented centralized exchanges, "helping" themselves to remain miserable slaves. This is something which remembers me of other memorable scientific inventions, meant to help people, but immediately after the respective inventions other showed up and weaponized them. Apparently, if there is not any entity to harm them, people choose on their own to harm themselves.


After reading these, some may ask: "What's wrong with using centralized exchanges? They keep my money and I have the money at my disposal and I can do whatever I want with them!".

The last sentence is a monumental lie. It's an oxymoron, meaning an expression which denies itself. It's like saying "I am smoking in a healthy manner".

People's greed never had any limit. Bitcoin appeared for liberating them, but they only understood that Bitcoin is here to help them get rich. The greed determined people to invent the centralized exchanges. Instead of using Bitcoin between them, in peer-to-peer transactions, fact which would render traditional money and governs as irrelevant, people created an abomination meant to centralize something which was born decentralized.

Some were smarter than others, but also greedy, and they took advantage of their knowledge and the others' greed for creating these centralized exchanges, where people hurry to deposit their money - which, since they are deposited, they become exchange's money. Individuals hope to get rich, without realizing they just lose on all directions. The situation is dramatic, as they don't lose just money, but way more...

What could be more than money? They are losing their personal information - that gift they received at birth which remains personal only until the individual chooses to not be personal anymore. And once the personal information is revealed, it will never be personal anymore. How many asked themselves "What means personal?". As greed blinded them, hoping to obtain profits and become rich over the night, people ran happily towards the centralized exchanges, sparing no effort for having accepted their requests for opening accounts. Meaning they offered all their personal data to the exchanges. Some exchanges offer for free some 5-10-20$ amounts to those opening accounts. Have you ever wondered why the exchanges give this money for free? Have you told yourself that "the exchanges are honored to have me as a client, that's why"? Not true. That amount of money is nothing for the exchanges, as they will earn way more from the clients. It is said that when something is free, you are the merchandise. Like on Facebook. In the case of exchanges, the situation is worst: if you are paid to become a customer, think to the most bad thing that can happen to you!

What is the most bad thing that can happen?

First of all, the exchange never loses money. House always wins. And customers always lose. Users are happy when BTC goes to the moon, hoping they'll earn some profits. They get sad then BTC value crashes, because they lose money. Many sell their BTC although they know they are losing, but they do it in order to avoid to lose even more. They don't understand that as long as they keep their BTC they don't lose anything. And what do the exchanges do? They win when BTC soars, as they earn fees from the users. They earn when BTC value goes down, as they are receiving fees now as well. When the users withdraw their money from the exchange, they lose more money. And I'm not talking about the network fees, but the exchange's fees. In other words, people constantly contribute to the benefit of exchanges and also to their very own poverty. Besides, how many of you observed how the biggest exchanges, like Coinbase or Binance, always encounter "technical outages", shutting down their platforms right at the moment when BTC soars to the moon or plunges? Can it be such a coincidence that at each substantial price change, an outage shuts down the exchanges only until the price comes back to its previous value? The explanations given by the exchanges' spokepersons are pathetic and ridiculous. It's vivid clear that, since these shitty moves are made for years, the exchanges choose to shut down in such moments, thus people won't profit if BTC soars too much and limiting them to buy BTC if the price plunges.

Second of all, as I was saying above, people lose their personal information by going willingly through a very dangerous process, named KYC. The exchanges don't care about their clients nor about their personal information. They only want to earn more money. They can be hacked by hackers which, besides stealing money, also steal the users' personal information, this being a very precious resource, which can be turned into even more money, especially when it is sold on Dark Net. A CNBC article describes how the hackers sell personal information for 1$ a piece (this information consisting, among others, in physical addresses of the users, their credit / debit cards, copies of their IDs etc.): Hackers are selling your data on the ‘dark web’... for only $1. A notorious similar case from the forum is the case of the Romanian bekli23, which, while pretending he is decrypting old BTC wallets, he was also asking users to send him photos with them while holding their IDs and other bills in hand. Obviously, he was not decrypting any wallet. But he was trying to collect personal information, most likely, for selling it on Dark Net, for the ridiculous price of 1$ per piece!

In some cases, the exchanges are the ones selling customers' personal information! And I'm not talking about small, shady exchanges, but about the big ones. Coinbase is one of the biggest exchanges and yet it was caught selling clients' personal data! A 2019 article, Coinbase Admits Its Former Data Provider Sold Client Data, describes how Christine Sandler, one of the exchange's executives, admitted the company sold the users' personal information. Having this example, do you think that other exchanges don't do the same thing? Just they weren't caught yet?

Third of all, exchanges offer users' personal information directly to the authorities. Were you hoping the govern wouldn't know about you and your finances - at least your crypto transactions (considering that it knows anyway all your transactions with fiat money)? By using centralized exchanges, it is certain that the govern will have its eye on you! Again, an example involving Coinbase: a Forbes article, Coinbase Notifies Customers That It Will Turn Over Court-Ordered Data, describes how this exchange gave the customers' private information to IRS. Don't imagine it was a singular case. Such practices are done by all exchanges, no matter the country.

Fourth of all, a centralized exchange doesn't offer the private keys to the clients, meaning the users don't have access to the tool allowing them to control their own money. The private keys of the wallets are held by the exchanges, thus the users accept they are ceasing the right of ownership over their money when they make deposits to exchanges. Regarding this situation, the Bitcoin evangelist Andreas Antonopulos used the expression "Not Your Keys, Not Your Bitcoin". For making things even more clear, in a lawsuit against Coinbase (this exchange seems to be the most negative example), the accuser lost the trial and the judge decided Not Your Keys, Not Your Bitcoin.

Fifth of all, exchanges can be hacked by hackers (and you lose the money).

Sixth of all, exchanges can decide abusively to freeze your accounts (and you lose the money).

Seventh of all, exchanges can exit scam (and you lose the money).

This is why you should avoid centralized exchanges. This is why Bitcoin must not be used together with such monsters, which are working just to the prejudice of the clients! This is how the clients of centralized exchanges lose their money no matter the operation they intend to do. And this is how, besides money, they also lose their personal information, risking to have it stolen by bad actors, fact which exposes them to monumental risks: once the criminals obtain someone's personal information, they can pay him a "visit", they can rob him, they can break into his house, they can steal his goods or even they can threaten his life!


People's greed has no limit and, although the above examples should suffice and convince anyone to run away from centralized exchanges, it still doesn't happen. People didn't limit just to the abomination of using centralized exchanges; they took the absurd to the moon, and used Bitcoin in an even more grotesque combination, by involving also the banks in the financial transaction! Meaning they involved those trusted third parties which Satoshi wanted so much to take out from the equation. The man fought hard to damage himself as much as possible, by combining Bitcoin with the exchanges and also with the banks.

Similar as above, after reading these, some may ask: "What's wrong with using banks? They keep my money and I have the money at my disposal and I can do whatever I want with them!".

Again, the last sentence is a monumental lie.

First of all, banks do not hold your money, but use it in order to obtain even more money. They should keep just a fraction in reserve but, many times, they don't hold even that fraction. This detail was also observed by Satoshi and maybe it represented another reason which determined him to create Bitcoin.

The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.  Banks must be trusted to hold our money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them not to let identity thieves drain our accounts.

Second of all, banks do not allow the clients to use their money as they wish. If they deposit an amount too big (compared with the previous transactions), the banks can freeze the accounts, forcing the clients to justify where they have all that money from. The same thing happens if the clients receive too big transactions. Those believing they can use their money as they wish are terribly wrong. Similar to the centralized exchanges, once the clients deposit their money to the bank, they also give the bank full control over the money.

Third of all, banks can handle their clients to the hands of authorities. And again: if a transaction looks suspicious in the eyes of the bank, usually a transaction involving a big amount of money, then then bank may not just freeze the account, but also notice the authorities. And, in this case, the client will face something even worst, being forced to justify his money in front of the authorities!

Of course, if the individual is not able to justify the provenance of the money, then the money is lost. Banks act like long arms of the govern and they don't care about the clients; they only care about growing their own wealth, while keeping a good relationship with the govern.

Fourth of all, banks can deny transactions initiated by clients, as they please, or based on the Terms and Conditions, which represent a document signed by the client, but usually nobody reads that dozen of pages when opening a bank account. And, as most of the banks are not friendly with crypto, crypto users are very exposed.

Fifth of all, some individuals use services provided by some financial institutions like Revolut, thinking they own crypto. In reality, they don't own even 1 satoshi! That's because Revolut doesn't allow the possession of crypto, but of CFDs. They sell you the illusion that you own crypto, but you don't. The same is the case with eToro.

Sixth of all, similar to centralized exchanges, bank clients will lose money in all possible ways: they'll pay fees for opening accounts, for depositing money, for withdrawing money, for transferring money, for checking the account balance, for the administration of the accounts, for having issued a credit / debit card and so on.

Seventh of all, banks may also go bankrupt, they can exit scam and they can lose clients' personal information. Of course these cases are not so often as in the case of crypto exchanges, but such incidents may still happen. They happened in the past and they'll keep happening in the future.

And, in case you still have doubts about what I described so far, the below screenshot proves the way one of Romania's biggest bank treats its clients:

Photo source: Facebook

Translated in English, it means the following:

Within the business relation the bank has with its clients, the bank is forced to follow the laws related to knowing their clients with the purpose of preventing and combating money laundering, financing terrorism and for following the General Business Conditions (GBC) for the entire clients portfolio.

According to GBC, to the regulation 2/2019 of National Bank of Romania and the Law 129/2019, the client has the responsibility to provide the Bank all the documents requested by the Bank, which are needed for verification and clarification of the purpose and the nature of the recorded transactions. Through this document, we let you know that, after analyzing the transactions realized from your account, we decided the typology of these transactions breaks art. 23.1 from GBC, which states the following: "In case the Bank identifies potential risks or some requests coerced by financial institutions implied in banking operations, the Bank reserves its right to not allow transfers for transactions linked to services such as gambling, acquisition of pornographic services (including videochat or similar services), acquisition of weapons/munition without complying to the conditions stated by the law, transactions involving cryptocurrencies."

Below you can read the reaction of a client of the above mentioned bank. You may laugh, but the situation should be treated seriously:

Photo source: Facebook

Translated in English, it means the following:

Subject: Justification signed by [...] in order to explain what I'm doing with my own money

I [...] being a client of the bank, I sign the present document being forced by the Bank, which invokes some internal regulations which are not against me, in order to coerce me to justify in front of the Bank what I'm doing with my own money.

Given the fact that it is summer and a period of vacation, considering it is also a post-quarantine period, I want very much to have fun. For doing so, I'll travel to Holland, where prostitution is LEGAL, in order to fu*k some whores. Most likely, on my way to Holland, I'll do the same in Austria and Germany.
Then, while being in Holland, given the fact that drugs are LEGAL, I intend to smoke some marijuana and hashish, but I'd also try some shrooms.
I heard they have some good marijuana cakes in Holland, and I also suggest you to try them, maybe you wake up and stop forcing people to sign stupid papers, based on stupid procedures, in order to justify to you what they're doing with their own money.
Obviously, if I won't have toilet paper, given the fact that I have so much money, maybe I'll fancy enough and I'll wipe my a*s clean with a few hundreds of euros, like rich men do.
The rest of the money is for lending them to my friends and for making useless expenditures, which I'll regret afterwards.

All of the above should make all of you to seriously think about using Bitcoin together with centralized exchanges and banks. Beware! You will just harm yourselves and maybe you'll provoke irrecoverable prejudices. Should I also mention about Mt. Gox exchange, which lost 850.000 BTC Should I also mention about the dozen (hundreds?) of hacked exchanges and about the hundreds of thousands of clients which lost their money for good? Should I mention the thousands of cases when banks froze customers' accounts? Should I mention how many people received death threats, how many were blackmailed, how many were extorted, how many were forced by hackers to pay ransom, after the hackers got their personal information?

Do you want to live something like that? If not, then cease using Bitcoin together with centralized exchanges and banks! Use crypto cash-in / cash-out ATMs, which offer you anonymity. Use decentralized exchanges, which don't hold a dime of clients' money and act just to connect the users one with each other. Use peer-to-peer transfers. Use crypto wallets which have embedded anonymous exchanges, allowing you to exchange a cryptocurrency with another one. Use any method to preserve your anonymity and financial privacy. It's for your own good.


This essay is a part of my educational articles. I recommend you all to read also the following essays:

- Bitcoin: The dream of Cypherpunks, libertarians and crypto-anarchists
- Governs are coming for traders!
- Cryptocurrency vs digital money issued by the state
- The Crypto Anarchist Manifesto - We all should read it
- Governs try to limit access of public to information and freedom since ages
- Phil Zimmermann's thoughts about PGP - We all should read them
- When the govern wants to hold your private keys
- The call for Julian Assange || The WikiLeaks Manifesto - We all should read it


Translations (in chronological order):

• Română: 12 ani mai tarziu si oamenii tot nu stiu cum se foloseste Bitcoin/la ce-i ajuta, translation by GazetaBitcoin
• Pidgin: 12 years don pass and people no sabi how dem go use bitcoin or Wetin e good for, translation by Stable090
• Polish: 12 lat później, a ludzie nadal nie wiedzą jak używać Bitcoina, ani do czego ..., translation by cygan
• German: 12 Jahre später und die Leute wissen immer noch nicht, wie man BTC anwendet, translation by cygan
• Filipino: [Translation] 12 taon na pero hindi pa rin alam ng tao ang pag gamit ng Bitcoin, translation by Peanutswar
• French: 12 ans après, les gens ne savent toujours pas utiliser Bitcoin ni à quoi il sert, translation by iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2
• Bengali: ১২ বছর পরেও মানুষ বিটকয়েন ব্যাবহার জানে না, translation by Learn Bitcoin
• Urdu: سال12 بعد بھی لوگوں کو بٹ کوائن کا نہیں پتہبٹکوائن سائیفرپنکس ،آزاد خیالوں کا خواب, translation by Publictalk792

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[GazetaBitcoin]

Reserved.

[ImHash]

Only had 1 merit to give, great job.
Now, what is the solution exactly? because I can't see one to avoid slavery by centralized exchanges. they provide services and people use their services, they don't really care if they are still slaves of the system. I doubt if Satoshi was thinking about the general population when he invented Bitcoin, I say that because of 21M limit, he or they invented Bitcoin as a model for us to follow, but we got stuck with the first model because the system does not want us to move forward with this great idea.

We all know that Bitcoin is not enough for us all, I'm talking about the future of course, where we could be free and not slaves, talking about a time when all the centralized monetary systems have failed, people are free using fast transactional systems without paying any high fees.
Bitcoin was invented to weaken the US and EU's knees on our throats, yet we can't still breathe, sadly.

[kawetsriyanto]

Nice post, I always appreciate someone who tries to give educated information to others. Indeed, there are still many people who don't understand what Bitcoin is, how to use Bitcoin, or even how Bitcoin can take benefits us. Yep, It is already a long time passed, although Bitcoin has been introduced by Satoshi more than 12 years ago, still many people aren't familiar with Bitcoin. However, I am not so surprised since many limitations of Bitcoin to develop till now, including the limitation from the governments. It has a big impact for sure!

Anyway, I think it should be better if you have a survey related to how familiar people with Bitcoin.
- Do they know the history of Bitcoin?
- How they know the main purpose of Bitcoin?
- How they use Bitcoin?
- How they know the benefits of Bitcoin?
- How they view the future of Bitcoin?

+1

[Obito]

The only counterintuitive part here is that we need to do KYC for some services which is kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin and Blockchain which is a P2P anonymous transactions. I get that there are special cases like money laundering but that seems to be not the case as recent articles says that most money laundering schemes are not done through cryptocurrency, they seem to be collecting user data.

The problem with centralized institutions is that they are jumping at the opportunity without any preparations with Mt. Gox being the best example, they should know that attacks are frequently happening which means that they should have prepared a secure channels for their services but no, they want the money and they do not mind what happens to the clients, which is reminiscent of banking institutions getting robbed by gunmen.

[Nikole Fischer]

People are afraid to put their money into bitcoin because they think it's a bubble that can burst at any moment. The problem is people who don't trust new technologies. 10 more years will pass and the percentage of people who still don't know about bitcoin will be just as large.

I see only the only solution to this problem is to educate people about the topic of bitcoin, explain to them how this technology works and why it's so important.

[hd49728]

12 years passed already since the launch of Bitcoin. And yet, most of people have no idea how it should be used, nor what Bitcoin is good for.

Some people who are eagerly to learn will sure read Bitcoin whitepaper and learn about bitcoin from the Whitepaper or other sources. In life, there are people who are very conservative and you can not change their minds, from politics to investment perspective.

Most of the users make a combination against the nature, using Bitcoin together with banks and centralized exchanges, having no knowledge about its libertarian and crypto-anarchic grounds.

I agree with you as the true decentralized exchange as https://bisq.network/ has low volume and limited users.

Two websites are good to get resources and learn about bitcoin. The second website is not built by or own by Satoshi Nakamoto.
https://bitcoin.org/
https://nakamotoinstitute.org/

[Don Pedro Dinero]

It's nice to see such a detailed and worked post. I personally follow what you preach: it's been a long time since I've worked with any centralized exchange and when I did in the past KYC wasn't compulsary at least in that exchange so my real identity isn't linked to my Bitcoin holdings. I hope that this post will serve to educate many people, although I'm afraid that the majority adoption will go through the centralized institutions. Those of us who will continue to use bitcoin according to Satoshi's original idea we will be a minority.

[Wenbing]

The world of business has two form of people which i term the irony state , we have one the Nakamoto and we have the de-nakamoto (personal terms).

1. The Nakamotos are the true inventors, their aim of inventing is to solve a problem and not to make money. in his whitepaper, he said the TRUST given to the reserve banks have been broken, by them devaluing the currency, so we need an invention to take back the trust, hence we become our banks through bitcoin which supports P2P.

2. The De-nakamotos are the entrepreneurs that Adams Smith described to have selfish interest. Their future is to convert the original intent of an invention into a money making opportunity. A good example is the conversion of the origin philosophy of bitcon which is decentralization to centralization by the other entrepreneurs.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Only had 1 merit to give, great job.

Hehe, no worries, thank you!

Now, what is the solution exactly? because I can't see one to avoid slavery by centralized exchanges.

In my opinion, the solution I see is the one from the end of the OP:

Do you want to live something like that? If not, then cease using Bitcoin together with centralized exchanges and banks! Use crypto cash-in / cash-out ATMs, which offer you anonymity. Use decentralized exchanges, which don't hold a dime of clients' money and act just to connect the users one with each other. Use peer-to-peer transfers. Use crypto wallets which have embedded anonymous exchanges, allowing you to exchange a cryptocurrency with another one. Use any method to preserve your anonymity and financial privacy. It's for your own good.

I doubt if Satoshi was thinking about the general population when he invented Bitcoin, I say that because of 21M limit, he or they invented Bitcoin as a model for us to follow, but we got stuck with the first model because the system does not want us to move forward with this great idea.

Well, don't forget that although Bitcoin has 21M units, it also has (as of now) 0 decimals. If you count it in satoshis, then you can say there will ever exist 2.100.000.000.000.000 satoshis, or 2.1 quadrillion satoshis. Besides, Lithning Network already uses 12 decimals, not just 8. When the time will come, the number of decimals can be extended, therefore the initial 21M BTC is not too relevant...

We all know that Bitcoin is not enough for us all, I'm talking about the future of course, where we could be free and not slaves, talking about a time when all the centralized monetary systems have failed, people are free using fast transactional systems without paying any high fees.
Bitcoin was invented to weaken the US and EU's knees on our throats, yet we can't still breathe, sadly.

I think this is why it's better to start saving as much BTC as we can!

Nice post, I always appreciate someone who tries to give educated information to others.

Thank you.

Anyway, I think it should be better if you have a survey related to how familiar people with Bitcoin.

I never thought about that, but it looks like an interesting idea. I'll think to a proper format of such a poll. Thanks!

10 more years will pass and the percentage of people who still don't know about bitcoin will be just as large.

I really hope you are wrong about that but, as things are now, sadly, there are high chances for you to be right

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/

The second site is pure gold! Thanks for mentioning it, hd49728. I remember I read almost everything I found on it. The Literature section (https://nakamotoinstitute.org/literature) is a large collection of writings made by other legends of cryptography, such as David Chaum, Nick Szabo, Amir Taaki, Eric Hughes or Tim May. I totally recommend it to anyone interested in learning about cryptography!

It's nice to see such a detailed and worked post. I personally follow what you preach

This is a very wise thing to do, indeed. Stay as far as you can from centralized exchanges, banks and KYC! Speaking of KYC, I'd also like to suggest all of you reading this precious essay of 1miau: Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless.

[kryptqnick]

It's not all about anarchy for many people, and I think it's fine.
Using an exchange to buy or to sell Bitcoin seems like a good thing to do if a person does not want to interact with strangers from one's local community of crypto users (I certainly don't), and it doesn't make one a slave.
Holding money in a personal wallet is already a good step towards freedom, and so is just holding funds in BTC because it is not regulated by any central bank of any country.
I do agree with you that today so much is focused around the price of Bitcoin and the profits, while that's not what Bitcoin is about.

[Smartprofit]

Thanks to the author of the topic.  Everything is said very accurately. 

Exchanges are like casinos.  Casinos always win not because there is zero sector on roulette.  Casinos are constantly winning because they have unlimited cash reserves.  The casino is inherently a dishonest game. 

The situation is similar with cryptocurrency exchanges.  They say their profit is commission.  It is not true.  The main profit of the exchanges is the liquidation of the positions of the clients of the exchanges.

[Renampun]

People are afraid to put their money into bitcoin because they think it's a bubble that can burst at any moment. The problem is people who don't trust new technologies. 10 more years will pass and the percentage of people who still don't know about bitcoin will be just as large.

I see only the only solution to this problem is to educate people about the topic of bitcoin, explain to them how this technology works and why it's so important.

education about Bitcoin is very important so that others understand Bitcoin...
in the dissemination of education about Bitcoin, the government must intervene because the government can convince those who do not believe it, the question is whether the government wants to do that? I hope that every day those who are interested in Bitcoin will increase so that the government will realize the potential of Bitcoin and then include it in the learning curriculum.

[EdgeoftheContinent]

I understand why the majority of people don't understand or don't want to learn about bitcoin. Life is hard for most people and trying to learn and contextualize a new monetary system that puts emphasis on self reliance and self custody can be overwhelming and off-putting. I think in another ten years more people will be able to understand bitcoin and what its system is and what problems it solves. But for now we will have to put up with people thinking it is a ponzi or a bubble.

[cr1776]

One thing that I don't see mentioned as often as it should be:
just stay in bitcoin.  Once you have bitcoin, stay in it.  You don't need to trade in and out.  Then you can truly use the p2p nature of bitcoin (or other crypto) to its full extent.  Buy something with it, the seller uses the bitcoin for something else.

If you can stay in bitcoin, just stay in bitcoin.  It seems like a lot of the corporations who are buying into bitcoin are doing so for the long haul, not a short term trade.  They are using it for inflation protection and other things, not inter corporate trade of course.

If you stay in bitcoin, then you don't have to worry about the exchanges.  (Privacy improvements are important to encourage this too).

[GazetaBitcoin]

One thing that I don't see mentioned as often as it should be:
just stay in bitcoin.  Once you have bitcoin, stay in it.  You don't need to trade in and out.  Then you can truly use the p2p nature of bitcoin (or other crypto) to its full extent.  Buy something with it, the seller uses the bitcoin for something else.

If you can stay in bitcoin, just stay in bitcoin.

Yes, this is how things were meant to be. Satoshi offered Bitcoin as a replacement for the actual corrupt financial system. By using only Bitcoin the corruption from actual monies, from governs, from all the elites would be rendered as irrelevant; the power would be taken from the elites and given back to people, as it always should have been.

When I wrote that

Do you want to live something like that? If not, then cease using Bitcoin together with centralized exchanges and banks! Use crypto cash-in / cash-out ATMs, which offer you anonymity. Use decentralized exchanges, which don't hold a dime of clients' money and act just to connect the users one with each other. Use peer-to-peer transfers. Use crypto wallets which have embedded anonymous exchanges, allowing you to exchange a cryptocurrency with another one. Use any method to preserve your anonymity and financial privacy. It's for your own good.

I thought also at those wishing to exchange BTC for corrupt fiat money, but offering them ways to do it anonymous. But of course, the intended way of using Bitcoin is by staying in it, paying with it for services, accepting it as payment for your goods / services and so on. This is what Satoshi wanted.

The below image, although it should be funny, is a premonitory tale:

And yes, this is how things should have been from the very beginning...

It's not all about anarchy for many people, and I think it's fine.

Actually it's not fine... It is both wrong and sad. Bitcoin was invented by a crypto-anarchist, which created it for anarchic and libertarian reasons. All Cypherpunks were crypto-anarchists and Satoshi was a Cypherpunk. Maybe the last Cypherpunk. Bitcoin radiates from all its bones messages expressing Satoshi's crypto-anarchic and libertarian ideology. Even the Genesis block expresses this ideology, with the message Satoshi wrote inside it:

"Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks".

It is a subtle message, pointing to the corruption of governs and banks, which should be avoided. And he offered a method to avoid both.

Using an exchange to buy or to sell Bitcoin seems like a good thing to do [...] and it doesn't make one a slave.

This sentence is even more dramatic. For it means a sweet and easy victory of the elites. What easier and more sweet victory could governs imagine, than inoculating citizens that the harm they bring upon them is actually a good thing?

All those which suffer from governs oppression, all those enslaved by the elites, which steal their money, but don't see it happening, are doomed.

If all would think the same way then everything would be lost.

What you are saying, sadly, remembers me of George Orwell's 1984. Have you read it? In that dystopian world, which actually became true in our days, when Big Brother's surveillance is almost unavoidable; in that book which actually inspired the Cypherpunks in their continuous work of providing people ways of private communications and private money, for helping them escape from Big Brother, the leit-motive of the Party was "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH".

The citizens believed that or were forced to believe it.

If you reach the state of believing the lies told by governs, for bad things being good for people, then you are a lost cause. And Big Brother will flavor his sweet and easy victory! What else could he ask for? Steal people's money, forcing them to pay ridiculous taxes, constantly surveilling them and not allowing them to slam the door in his face, having citizens happily accepting the fact that if they don't obey they should be punished... What else could Big Brother ask for?

In Romania, 45% of the gross salary goes to the govern as taxes. In other countries the taxes may go up even to 60%!!! Sadly, some think it is normal that 60% of the money they earn with their hard work, with the sweat from their efforts, to go in elites' pockets. No, this is not normal! This is wrong! This is theft!

Besides, if you take a look inside your neighbor's house, you may be accused of breaking inside his intimacy. You are not allowed to do that. But if a group of law enforcement does that, then it is okay. No, it is not okay! Nobody should have the right to sneak inside someone else's private life and everybody should be allowed to slam the door in the face of any intruder and say "No!".

Those thinking it is normal to be constantly surveilled are doomed. They are lost causes, as Big Brother managed to erase their brains already and they can't distinguish anymore what is good and bad for them. Fortunately, there are still some which think clear, which can stand and fight.

Holding money in a personal wallet is already a good step towards freedom, and so is just holding funds in BTC because it is not regulated by any central bank of any country.

Do you think this will last longer? Have you read about latest ideas of Big Brother...?

A Cooin Telegraph article from Dec. 18th, 2020, is a premonitory tale. The articles depicts FinCEN's intentions for monitoring the cryptocurrencies going off the centralized exchanges into personal crypto wallets. The entire proposal can be read here.

I don't know if this will happen. But if it will, we are at one step away of total surveillance over all crypto wallets. If that will happen then we will be just like Phil Zimmerman said: "If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy".

[JollyGood]

Nice thread, a well thought out and thought provoking piece of presentation  

All these years later so many institutes and funds have purchased large quantities of Bitcoin and them along with older whales control too much of the circulating supply of Bitcoin. Them buying and selling in bursts is affecting the price of the whole market.

Of those people that are oblivious to what Bitcoin is, we hope they will learn about it in due course and end up holding some and maybe some other crypto too as the world move away from fiat towards crypto in various aspects.

[CarnagexD]

Well in the first place bitcoin wasn't intended to be of use for anything other than a complete replacement for fiat currencies controlled by the 1% of society. This is slowly being realized and is being achieved by the day. As for how people should use it, that's where we're having a problem, it's hard to control investors especially since bitcijn is decentralized and anonymous. That's why problems like this exist. Anyway, this exist in the fiat space so I don't see why this should be a very big hindrance to bitcoin's success.

[Sophbbty]

I also just started to understand Bitcoin. This article is worth learning.

[JollyGood]

Bitcoin will definitely start getting more and more acceptance as it heads to mainstream. Sure banks and finance institutions will have reservations but they are very much in the loop right now because anybody wanting to convert crypto to fiat still has to use traditional banking.

There does not seem to be any way to completely bypass banks right now but in the future as P2P transactions grow things might change.

These banks are scared of Bitcoin like chickens. According to them only bankers should be rich in this world, not ordinary people. You should be a bank slave all your life.

[GazetaBitcoin]

There does not seem to be any way to completely bypass banks right now but in the future as P2P transactions grow things might change.

You can always use a cash-in / cash-out ATM, if you want to exchange BTC for fiat... Or use a decentralized exchange. Indeed, the exchange price is not very friendly, in case of the ATM, but privacy has its price. But, thinking that on the other hand, the banks can seize your account for receiving funds coming from crypto, can force you to justify the origin of your own money, or can alert the authorities, I think the ATM is the right choice, although the exchange price is lower.

[pinggoki]

This deserves a clap! Good job OP, this article was really worth reading although it is kind of long but still it is worth to read for especially you mentioned why people are still not interested and still don't know what bitcoin is at this year 2021 where everything is running by technology and etc. Many people doesn't know the advantage of bitcoin simply because they didn't understand how it works and they don't know what it's good for, then the best thing to do is to educate them with our knowledge so that they will know on what bitcoin is good for.

[GazetaBitcoin]

This deserves a clap! Good job OP [...] Many people doesn't know the advantage of bitcoin simply because they didn't understand how it works and they don't know what it's good for, then the best thing to do is to educate them with our knowledge so that they will know on what bitcoin is good for.

Thank you. And yes, this was my intention... This is what I'm trying to do for years. Unfortunately, more and more are blinded by greed and can not see the supreme gifts given by Bitcoin: freedom; liberty; total control over their own wealth' rendering governs, banks and any middle-man as irrelevant; direct peer-to-peer transfers; pseudonymity; privacy; and many other benefits of a crypto-anarchic society.

Those reading my writings are able to learn, if they want. But usually, people proceed to bad decisions, harming themselves. It's like an entity give people the fire, as a gift, for helping them cook their meals and people, instead, use it for burning their homes. Many can not see the forest for the trees. The same is true about Bitcoin: it was given as a gift, for free; but, being determined by greed, people enslave themselves even more, using it together with centralized exchanges and banks -- and such actions are meant just to expose them even more in the eyes of the govern. Instead of taking advantage of their own money, what these people do is like going in front of IRS and showing their money to the agency, yelling "Hey! Look what I've got! Are you so kind, please, to come and search me, my pockets and my house now? And, if needed, to force me explain where I have these money from / arrest me / coerce me to pay ridiculous amounts to the govern or else put me behind bars?".

[0t3p0t]

These banks are scared of Bitcoin like chickens. According to them only bankers should be rich in this world, not ordinary people. You should be a bank slave all your life.

I agree. But we less fortunate people has to use Bitcoin in some sort of transaction just like buying our daily needs and that is where we landed on local exchanges with KYC and taxation. I do hope that one day time will come we will live a life without spending our Bitcoins but keep it for the future.

Some people are Bitcoin illiterate because they are afraid to lose their money and has trouble understanding on how Bitcoin works. We need to educate these people. Even though I am one of those less fortunate individual I still have the chance to gain Bitcoins i some other way because I know how it works so it is an advantage really to have knowledge.

[DarkDays]

Can you really blame people not really understanding BTC or what it is and used for when the media presents it as a no, no coin? I think not, entirely.

Yeah, there's ignorance for sure but we just have not made a clear enough statement as a community overall to give these people no choice but to understanding it. I think with time, this will become more and more the norm, but for now let's just say that most of the world is in its 'lag phase' 

[MWesterweele]

These banks are scared of Bitcoin like chickens. According to them only bankers should be rich in this world, not ordinary people. You should be a bank slave all your life.

I agree. But we less fortunate people has to use Bitcoin in some sort of transaction just like buying our daily needs and that is where we landed on local exchanges with KYC and taxation. I do hope that one day time will come we will live a life without spending our Bitcoins but keep it for the future.

Some people are Bitcoin illiterate because they are afraid to lose their money and has trouble understanding on how Bitcoin works. We need to educate these people. Even though I am one of those less fortunate individual I still have the chance to gain Bitcoins i some other way because I know how it works so it is an advantage really to have knowledge.

Here in our country, people were illiterate of what is Bitcoin it is because first, the life here was literally hit us hard that even owning a single digital phone needed to be worked hard, second, owning already a digital phone but the telco services were too sucks, slow connection and you may cursed it as hell. I know our people like me really wanted to learn about bitcoin but i'm lucky enough that i have known it for a quite early and now i am sharing to my friends and people around me of what is bitcoin, i may not teach them how but i did was i explain to them of what is bitcoin and what it is good for. Now they have already an idea about bitcoin whenever they may encounter the word Bitcoin again in their life.

[JollyGood]

Yes you are right the ATM part is true, there are Bitcoin ATMs that you can withdraw funds from and also send funds to your own addresses and they are located in many countries around the world in retail outlets  

 

There does not seem to be any way to completely bypass banks right now but in the future as P2P transactions grow things might change.

You can always use a cash-in / cash-out ATM, if you want to exchange BTC for fiat... Or use a decentralized exchange. Indeed, the exchange price is not very friendly, in case of the ATM, but privacy has its price. But, thinking that on the other hand, the banks can seize your account for receiving funds coming from crypto, can force you to justify the origin of your own money, or can alert the authorities, I think the ATM is the right choice, although the exchange price is lower.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I agree. But we less fortunate people has to use Bitcoin in some sort of transaction just like buying our daily needs and that is where we landed on local exchanges with KYC and taxation.

Why don't you use cash-in / cash-out ATMs for avoiding centralized exchanges and KYC? Or decentralized exchanges, such as Bisq, HodlHodl or LocalCryptos? You can find all the ATMs from your country here: https://coinatmradar.com. And about KYC, have you ever read 1miau's very informative topic about the dangers associated with KYC (Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless)? In case you didn't read it, I bet you'll be astonished after reading this topic.

Can you really blame people not really understanding BTC or what it is and used for when the media presents it as a no, no coin? I think not, entirely.

Unfortunately, mainstream media works against Bitcoin and damages peoples' brains about it... But this is why we are here -- those very few understanding it, which can also explain it to others... For example, see MWesterweele's post. If any "Bitcoin conaisseur" would explain the core ideas of Bitcoin to three individuals, ensuring they understood everything correctly (including its libertarian and crypto-anarchic ideology); then if each of these three individuals would explain it forward to other three... You know what I mean?

Here in our country, people were illiterate of what is Bitcoin it is because first, the life here was literally hit us hard that even owning a single digital phone needed to be worked hard, second, owning already a digital phone but the telco services were too sucks, slow connection and you may cursed it as hell.

Hehe, don't tell me about your country... I live in Romania The following is a picturesque message for any foreigner:

The message says: "Welcome to Romania!!! Set your clock 50 years back". I guess you understand what I want to say

I know our people like me really wanted to learn about bitcoin but i'm lucky enough that i have known it for a quite early and now i am sharing to my friends and people around me of what is bitcoin, i may not teach them how but i did was i explain to them of what is bitcoin and what it is good for. Now they have already an idea about bitcoin whenever they may encounter the word Bitcoin again in their life.

Now that's the spirit! Congrats! Keep doing this as it is the only way for mass teaching people about Bitcoin!

Yes you are right the ATM part is true, there are Bitcoin ATMs that you can withdraw funds from and also send funds to your own addresses and they are located in many countries around the world in retail outlets  

Yup! I just posted a link with all these ATMs from around the world (some are just cash-in though). Maybe you can use it, in case you didn't know about that site... In Romania we have thousands (literally thousands) cash-in ATMs, but also several cash-in / cash-out ones. The lattest ones are offered by three Romanian operators and an international one. The international machines belong to shitcoins.club (yes, don't laugh, this is the company's name) and this company is present in several countries. Maybe it is present also in your country. fillippone wrote a topic about them, but it is written in Italian (I translated it also in Romanian).

[icopress]

GazetaBitcoin, This article seems to me to be more of a protest against centralization. After reading the title of the thread, I expected to see an essay that sorted out the reasons why most people perceive bitcoin as a financial tool or something like that, (more reasons). Although these questions can be touched upon in the second part of your essay). In this particular case, I think we should better focus on another issue, namely how we all the same get back to basics. To the philosophy that was originally laid down, and not to its interpretations. BTW, in fact, centralized exchanges are just one of many interpretations ...

[Oilacris]

Can you really blame people not really understanding BTC or what it is and used for when the media presents it as a no, no coin? I think not, entirely.

Yeah, there's ignorance for sure but we just have not made a clear enough statement as a community overall to give these people no choice but to understanding it. I think with time, this will become more and more the norm, but for now let's just say that most of the world is in its 'lag phase' 

'Lag phase' due to several factors;

-media influence
-Lack of knowledge
-greed only for profits

Once they do experience some unfortunate events like losing money then they would really be finding
out some answers into their questions that have on their mind.

Just let them be on learning for themselves because sooner or later they would find out
on what it is all about.

[Darker45]

Can you really blame people not really understanding BTC or what it is and used for when the media presents it as a no, no coin? I think not, entirely.

Yeah, there's ignorance for sure but we just have not made a clear enough statement as a community overall to give these people no choice but to understanding it. I think with time, this will become more and more the norm, but for now let's just say that most of the world is in its 'lag phase' 

'Lag phase' due to several factors;

-media influence
-Lack of knowledge
-greed only for profits

Once they do experience some unfortunate events like losing money then they would really be finding
out some answers into their questions that have on their mind.

Just let them be on learning for themselves because sooner or later they would find out
on what it is all about.

Sadly, all these mentioned factors are not insurmountable. A little effort every once in a while will actually inform one the basics of Bitcoin. And one doesn't have to learn all of them in a single sitting.

If one can spend time reading an article which touches on Bitcoin, one could also spend a few minutes verifying online what one has just read. So getting knowledge, acquiring more of it than what one could read or hear over print and broadcast media, respectively, doesn't take much effort and time. Of course, there are more complicated details but a newbie won't have to dive into it immediately.

Losing money or learning things the hard way doesn't have to be the only way. Neither it is the best way.

[Kakmakr]

OP, you are 100% correct. You should also mention other "centralized" services like Wallet providers. When you buy most of these hardware wallets, they ask your personal information and they store this information on their own internal database. (Just a few months ago, hackers got hold of millions of people's email addresses that bought a "Ledger" wallet and they started to target them with Phishing emails specifically targeted at them)   

People also re-use Bitcoin addresses and when they use their single Bitcoin address at a centralized service where they required a signup with personal information (KYC requirements at some online casinos) ..they expose their whole Bitcoin footprint to the person who can trace and link these services to your true identity. 

[Karartma1]

12 years passed already since the launch of Bitcoin. And yet, most of people have no idea how it should be used, nor what Bitcoin is good for. Most of the users make a combination against the nature, using Bitcoin together with banks and centralized exchanges, having no knowledge about its libertarian and crypto-anarchic grounds. Without understanding that Bitcoin is here for helping them evade the slavery that governs and banks coerces them to, people do all they can to enslaves themselves, making an easy job for the elites which oppress them for thousands of years.

12 years ago Satoshi offered a very precious tool to humanity, tool which was able to set them free. Let's see how he was describing his invention:

Well deserved merits for you Gazeta.
Reading your thoughts, it is like reading mine as I also believe that many people do not have a clue about the bitcoin history behind the scenes. The problem is we can't force anyone to find bitcoin and use it the way it was supposed to. Our freedom shouldn't go as far as forcing others to treat bitcoin as a real bitcoiner would do. Don't get me wrong, ideally I am with 100% but we should also be realistic here. Maybe it is too early and with time people will increasingly wake up.
Let it be. 

[Kittygalore]

These banks are scared of Bitcoin like chickens. According to them only bankers should be rich in this world, not ordinary people. You should be a bank slave all your life.

That is how the world order should be according to these suit and tie devils. I think that it is fair that they are fighting bitcoin to protect their interests, if I were on their position I would do the same thing because it is human nature to protect what is precious to you although I do not consider this people humans. The reason for their mantra that only them should be the rich and the only one that does not experience pain is that they wouldn't be any significant if they do not have any one to rule over, if everyone is rich then what is the point of having a lot of money when everyone is equal which is the most evil mindset that I can think of, if the people were as solid as the people in the movie Fight Club, then by now, we shouldn't have any credit card company building standing right now.

[GazetaBitcoin]

GazetaBitcoin, This article seems to me to be more of a protest against centralization. After reading the title of the thread, I expected to see an essay that sorted out the reasons why most people perceive bitcoin as a financial tool or something like that, (more reasons).

It was mostly another try I made to open eyes, to raise awareness, to help those not seeing the forest for the trees...

In this particular case, I think we should better focus on another issue, namely how we all the same get back to basics. To the philosophy that was originally laid down

This is a great idea. I tried to touch it, in part in my 1000^th post on the forum - Bitcoin: The dream of Cypherpunks, libertarians and crypto-anarchists. But indeed, more writing on this subject would only help more people.

OP, you are 100% correct. You should also mention other "centralized" services like Wallet providers.

[...]

People also re-use Bitcoin addresses and when they use their single Bitcoin address at a centralized service where they required a signup with personal information (KYC requirements at some online casinos) ..they expose their whole Bitcoin footprint to the person who can trace and link these services to your true identity. 

Indeed, some Wallet providers represent also a huge problem... We've all seen what happened with Ledger leaking hundreds of thousands of users personal information, but let's not forget also about the wallets with closed source code, where nobody knows what's inside that code. Let's also not forget about other wallets which don't issue new BTC addresses after the users made transactions... Yes, these should be avoided as well.

Well deserved merits for you Gazeta.

Thank you!

Reading your thoughts, it is like reading mine as I also believe that many people do not have a clue about the bitcoin history behind the scenes. The problem is we can't force anyone to find bitcoin and use it the way it was supposed to. Our freedom shouldn't go as far as forcing others to treat bitcoin as a real bitcoiner would do.

Indeed, we can't force anyone. I would never think anything like that. Crypto-anarchy is also totally against violence. As Wei Dai wisely wrote 22 years ago,

Unlike the communities traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical locations.

But we can help these people, trying to help them understand the truth.

[internetional]

Thank you GazetaBitcoin, the text is very interesting. I quite agree with your ideas, but I would like to highlight two aspects that were briefly mentioned in the OP and could have gone unnoticed by readers.

1

They are losing their personal information - that gift they received at birth which remains personal only until the individual chooses to not be personal anymore.

This is very important. If a person doesn't want certain information to be personal, they can share that information with anyone or publish it. No one has the right to compel a person to keep any information about themselves secret.

I once wrote an article on this topic. It’s in Russian, so I'll quote a translation of an excerpt from it here:

Not long ago, one bank imposed a restriction on transactions from my account. According to the bank's internal instructions, the procedure to lift the restriction could only begin with the completion of a form in which, among other things, I had to confirm that I had not disclosed my personal information, including identity document data, to third parties. I was outraged: it's hard to imagine an adult who hasn't shared their personal data, including passport information, for various purposes such as employment contracts, civil contracts, interactions with healthcare institutions, dealings with authorities, and more. Even this very bank requested my passport before providing me with services. Does the bank really think it's unique? And personal information (other than passport details) isn't just shared by me but almost every person on platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, and similar ones. It's completely normal that if we re not shy about our names, ages, appearances, and lifestyles, we share this information (our personal data) with those interested.

However, the bank employee said that without a properly filled out form, the bank wouldn't consider lifting the restriction on transactions from my account, so I had to sign such a form. Of course, after the process started, I submitted an additional statement to the bank, explaining that when I signed the statement in the form, I meant that I hadn't taken those actions to provide third parties access to my account, while I did share my data with third parties for other (legal) purposes.

It seems like I found a way out. But what really irks me is the fact that I'm almost being forced to keep a secret that isn't a secret! All sorts of smart experts and commentators keep telling me that I must never disclose my passport details to anyone because otherwise, someone could take out a loan in my name, open a legal entity, set up an account with a financial organization, and use it for illicit activities.

I disagree. At the very least, because "my passport" doesn't mean "me."

I publicly declare: if something (a loan, a legal entity, an electronic wallet, etc.) is registered under my passport, until I personally inform you that I did it myself, you have no reason to assume that I have any connection to it (the loan, legal entity, wallet, etc.). My passport details (and yours, for that matter) are known to many.

2

And what do the exchanges do? They win when BTC soars, as they earn fees from the users. They earn when BTC value goes down, as they are receiving fees now as well. When the users withdraw their money from the exchange, they lose more money. And I'm not talking about the network fees, but the exchange's fees. In other words, people constantly contribute to the benefit of exchanges and also to their very own poverty.
…
similar to centralized exchanges, bank clients will lose money in all possible ways: they'll pay fees for opening accounts, for depositing money, for withdrawing money, for transferring money, for checking the account balance, for the administration of the accounts, for having issued a credit / debit card and so on.

This is absolutely true. Every time we use the services of any business, we lose money. It doesn't matter to whom we give it: the exchange for matching two orders, the bank for issuing a bank card, the hardware wallet manufacturer for the wallet, or the Lightning service provider for opening the payment channel. Within capitalist relations, the consumer always loses money.

If you view businessmen as enemies, it's better to never use their services at all.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Thank you GazetaBitcoin, the text is very interesting.

And I thank you for your post

This is very important. If a person doesn't want certain information to be personal, they can share that information with anyone or publish it. No one has the right to compel a person to keep any information about themselves secret.

Correct. But it is like saying that nobody forces someone to live healthy. If someone wants to die at 40 because of a stroke -- it's their decision, right?

I once wrote an article on this topic. It’s in Russian, so I'll quote a translation of an excerpt from it here

I already offered here a very thorough reply.

This is absolutely true. Every time we use the services of any business, we lose money. It doesn't matter to whom we give it: the exchange for matching two orders, the bank for issuing a bank card, the hardware wallet manufacturer for the wallet, or the Lightning service provider for opening the payment channel. Within capitalist relations, the consumer always loses money.

If you view businessmen as enemies, it's better to never use their services at all.

Bitcoin was invented to eliminate third parties, which only want a buck for any possible person. Have you ever read the white paper?

I am using Bitcoin the way it was meant and I am advocating for that. I am also trying to help as many people to do the same.

There are some businesses which are necessary to live -- e.g. a grocery store, from where you buy bread, milk and so on. Or the company providing electricity. But you can live -- and live better! -- without many other companies and, for sure, without exchanges (at least centralized ones) or banks. Bitcoin facilitates peer-to-peer transfers so there is really no need to use a centralized exchange to do that for you. Regarding banks, I am coerced, by my employer, to have a debit card where my salary is paid. But when my salary is paid I cash it out entirely in the same day and I pay for the rest of the month only with cash. Nobody is supposed to know what I am doing with my money, besides me.

[internetional]

Bitcoin was invented to eliminate third parties, which only want a buck for any possible person. Have you ever read the white paper?

I am using Bitcoin the way it was meant and I am advocating for that. I am also trying to help as many people to do the same.

There are some businesses which are necessary to live -- e.g. a grocery store, from where you buy bread, milk and so on. Or the company providing electricity. But you can live -- and live better! -- without many other companies and, for sure, without exchanges (at least centralized ones) or banks. Bitcoin facilitates peer-to-peer transfers so there is really no need to use a centralized exchange to do that for you. Regarding banks, I am coerced, by my employer, to have a debit card where my salary is paid. But when my salary is paid I cash it out entirely in the same day and I pay for the rest of the month only with cash. Nobody is supposed to know what I am doing with my money, besides me.

Yes, I’ve read the white paper. And I do something similar with any fiat money coming to my bank accounts. I don’t cash it out, but I exchange it to bitcoins via Localcoinswap or LNP2PBOT.

But what do you think about miners? Aren’t they that very third party which only wants a sat from any possible transaction? I see professional mining as a move away from the concept of intermediary-free transactions. I would prefer a digital cash system where every user is also a miner.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Yes, I’ve read the white paper.

Then I believe you should re-read this part, for understanding what Bitcoin was created for:

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. [...]

Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.  Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-
reversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need.  A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments over a communications channel without a trusted party.  What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party.

The above part is related to this part of our earlier conversation:

This is absolutely true. Every time we use the services of any business, we lose money. It doesn't matter to whom we give it: the exchange for matching two orders, the bank for issuing a bank card, the hardware wallet manufacturer for the wallet, or the Lightning service provider for opening the payment channel. Within capitalist relations, the consumer always loses money.

If you view businessmen as enemies, it's better to never use their services at all.

Bitcoin was invented to eliminate third parties, which only want a buck for any possible person. Have you ever read the white paper?

I am using Bitcoin the way it was meant and I am advocating for that. I am also trying to help as many people to do the same.

There are some businesses which are necessary to live -- e.g. a grocery store, from where you buy bread, milk and so on. Or the company providing electricity. But you can live -- and live better! -- without many other companies and, for sure, without exchanges (at least centralized ones) or banks. Bitcoin facilitates peer-to-peer transfers so there is really no need to use a centralized exchange to do that for you.

But what do you think about miners? Aren’t they that very third party which only wants a sat from any possible transaction? I see professional mining as a move away from the concept of intermediary-free transactions. I would prefer a digital cash system where every user is also a miner.

Nobody stops you from being a miner. And no, miners are not third parties. They are part of the core of Bitcoin's functionality.

[Promocodeudo]

This is normal, it has decades that school was found but till this moment, is not everyone that's ready or willing to have formal education, this should also be the case of bitcoin, bitcoin has mad itself available for many to grab the opportunity, but it is still the interested ones that seen the technology as an opportunity to either growth their wealth or add value to their asset, we don't force people to do what is right for them, you can only involve in such conversation unless you are invited to do so, bitcoin was invented for many purposes but the major aspect of Bitcoin that got my attention is your identify being secured, that's privacy which is what many individuals has always wanted.

[Publictalk792]

Hello @GazetaBitcoin sir, I would like to translate this topic for my community members. This will really help and increase their knowledge. I saw that there is no one who reserved or translated this topic. So if you will allow me then I will translate it. Thanks.
I hope this will increase knowledge for me and for my community members.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Hello @GazetaBitcoin sir, I would like to translate this topic for my community members.

Hello! You can make the translation. Make sure though that (1) you don't use an automatic translator; (2) you follow precisely the text formatting; (3) you use the header I mentioned here; and (4) you send me a preview before publishing it and you wait for my approval for publishing.

And stop calling me "Sir"

[1miau]

And stop calling me "Sir"

Getting called "Sir" is a badge of honor.  
Of course, calling someone "Sir" might only be an option if the difference of Account rank / earned Merit is quite big because it wouldn't be an option for Hhampuz (for example) to call theymos "Sir".  
But for campaign participants, it would be suited and polite to call Hhampuz "Sir" (and I got called "Sir" as well already, also in translation requests).

Regarding translations, I can recommend Publictalk792, he has done translations for me as well and delievered good quality work.  

And, is it an option to change "12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for" because some time has passed or is it a fixed date (when your OP was written)?

[Publictalk792]

And stop calling me "Sir"

This is only for respect sir. 1miau sir already explained it.

Basically one of our Holy Personality Hazrat Ali (R.A) said; Anyone who taught me one word. He is my teacher.
So I didn't learn one word from you I learned much because your posts are really informative. And increasing my knowledge. Therefore you are my teacher and I am respecting you.

Okay if you say don't call me sir so may call you in Urdu جناب this is the meaning of sir. Haha!
Sir this is only for respect.

Thank you for explaining 1miau sir.

And I have already started my work to translate the topic. Soon I will update.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I understand your position of respect and I really appreciate it. And I also understand 1miau's position. However, I prefer to be just Gazeta. No "Sir", please. I insist...

Besides, excepting this personal preference of mine, please be aware that in many occasions some forum users considered those using "Sir" all the way as shit-posters. You can be polite also without using this term... It's not my case (to see a shit-poster in someone using "Sir" all the time) but I've seen cases and it would be sad to get such an image only from the wish to show respect.

Just act naturally, don't swear, and your politeness will be reflected from normal words as well.

Besides, you'll never know if you are talking to a woman and she would be offended by being called "Sir" (I saw that happening in lovesmayfamilis' case and it amused me, but she was kind of irritated when she was called "Sir" ).


I'll be looking forward for the translation preview.

[Victorik]

Wonderful piece. The writer is well versed about bitcoin, centralised exchanges and how it negates the idealogy of decentralisation.
The writer is vindicated by the recent happening with some cex, for example FTX, it clearly shows that these exchanges have been compromised and are not really there for your interest.

[philipma1957]

You know I am happy to have read the last page 📑 of this thread.

I had zero understanding of why some people were calling me sir.

Now I have a better understanding of its use.


I was an enlisted member in the USN

I called officers sir.

I was never called sir.

So when I was called sir on bitcointalk I felt a bit uncomfortable with people using it.

As an enlisted sailor or soldier would not want to be called sir.

[GazetaBitcoin]

The writer is vindicated by the recent happening with some cex, for example FTX, it clearly shows that these exchanges have been compromised and are not really there for your interest.

I am worried, indeed, by what is happening with CEX users. But I wrote that topic way before the FTX incident. Nevertheless, that incident shows once again to what risks CEX users expose themselves...

I was never called sir.

So when I was called sir on bitcointalk I felt a bit uncomfortable with people using it.

Same here, but not because of an army background I just feel anyone can be polite even without this term.

[Alpha Marine]

Using a centralized exchange is against everything Bitcoin stands for. That is one of the reasons Satoshi created Bitcoin, he even stated it in Bitcoin white paper.
How do people complain about the banks and other financial organizations and go ahead to comfortably use centralized exchanges?

I made a post that said knowing Bitcoin price history is important and @Upgrade00 pointed out that it's also important to understand the reasons for those market shifts in the past and that's true.
From the early years of Bitcoin, exchanges have been making people lose their Bitcoins. Mt.Gox was an exchange that made people lose their Bitcoin in 2014. The crash also caused the price of Bitcoin to dip but that's by the way.
My point is people don't learn at all from all these incidents. That alone should make people to be weary of CEXs.

I know a person whose coins worth over $80k got frozen by Binance. Why do people just hand themselves over to such oppression? It just doesn't make sense.

Even if you do not care about your privacy (which is a very foolish thing to do) why are you comfortable with someone else keeping your coins for you when you have a better alternative?

I remember a time my sister opened an account with a local bank here in my country and two days later she was getting messages from hackers asking for more personal information.  Information that would let them get access to the account. What was shocking was that they had her phone number, account number, and account name too. So this got me wondering, how on earth these these guys get this information within such a short period? An account that only she and the bank have, she hasn't shared it with anyone else. It's not a small bank, it's one of the biggest banks in the country. It's either the hackers hack the banks database or the banks sell these information to hackers. Either option is not good at all. These are very scary events that make me lose so much trust in centralized organizations.

[Victorik]

The writer is vindicated by the recent happening with some cex, for example FTX, it clearly shows that these exchanges have been compromised and are not really there for your interest.

I am worried, indeed, by what is happening with CEX users. But I wrote that topic way before the FTX incident. Nevertheless, that incident shows once again to what risks CEX users expose themselves...

I was never called sir.

So when I was called sir on bitcointalk I felt a bit uncomfortable with people using it.

Same here, but not because of an army background I just feel anyone can be polite even without this term.

You saw the future even before it happened. Exactly what you talked about is what is happening and will continue to happen with cex.
The fact remains that cex negates the whole idea of bitcoin which centres on decentralisation. People have refused to let go of the conventional banking system, hence they decided to bring it into crypto.

[GazetaBitcoin]

You saw the future even before it happened. Exactly what you talked about is what is happening and will continue to happen with cex.
The fact remains that cex negates the whole idea of bitcoin which centres on decentralisation. People have refused to let go of the conventional banking system, hence they decided to bring it into crypto.

Both your lines are very true. There is still hope that some people may read these words and open their eyes before doing a terrible mistake and lose money, personal information or any other valuable data. Some learn from others' mistakes -- which is good; some learn from their own mistakes -- which is still good, if a lesson is well learned. Sadly, there are also those which don't learn the lesson, nor are willing to. There are also such people.

Still, there are several topics trying to help people the risks associated with exchanges, so there is still hope for some to learn. For example, take a look at these topics:

What happens when your identity is stolen -- real story || Avoid CEXs!
Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

[Victorik]

You saw the future even before it happened. Exactly what you talked about is what is happening and will continue to happen with cex.
The fact remains that cex negates the whole idea of bitcoin which centres on decentralisation. People have refused to let go of the conventional banking system, hence they decided to bring it into crypto.

Both your lines are very true. There is still hope that some people may read these words and open their eyes before doing a terrible mistake and lose money, personal information or any other valuable data. Some learn from others' mistakes -- which is good; some learn from their own mistakes -- which is still good, if a lesson is well learned. Sadly, there are also those which don't learn the lesson, nor are willing to. There are also such people.

Still, there are several topics trying to help people the risks associated with exchanges, so there is still hope for some to learn. For example, take a look at these topics:

What happens when your identity is stolen -- real story || Avoid CEXs!
Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

I think some people are completely oblivious of the danger associated with giving out their information, probably because they have never really experienced identity theft.
Ignorance is not an excuse, and one has to be very careful with how they handle their identity because once it is made public, there's absolutely notice you can do about it.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I think some people are completely oblivious of the danger associated with giving out their information, probably because they have never really experienced identity theft.
Ignorance is not an excuse, and one has to be very careful with how they handle their identity because once it is made public, there's absolutely notice you can do about it.

From your last lines I assume you read the above mentioned linked topics. Yes, it must be hard to really feel how it is to have the identity stolen unless you don't experience the incident. Still, better be safe than sorry...

The guy from the identity theft topic lived such thing it not from a crypto attack but from another real life bad incident. Still, the effects are the same. It is incredible how far he endured in his attempt to recover his identity.

[Victorik]

I think some people are completely oblivious of the danger associated with giving out their information, probably because they have never really experienced identity theft.
Ignorance is not an excuse, and one has to be very careful with how they handle their identity because once it is made public, there's absolutely notice you can do about it.

From your last lines I assume you read the above mentioned linked topics. Yes, it must be hard to really feel how it is to have the identity stolen unless you don't experience the incident. Still, better be safe than sorry...

The guy from the identity theft topic lived such thing it not from a crypto attack but from another real life bad incident. Still, the effects are the same. It is incredible how far he endured in his attempt to recover his identity.

Yea. I read the articles on the link and it was quite educative.
Though it didn't happen in a crypto related settings, the effect is still the same. I feel for him and it's really a very bad and pathetic experience. Imagine been accused of something you know nothing about just because your identity that was stolen was been used to perpetuate the acts. It's crazy.

[ivankoh]

Maybe. It is clear that many people with conservative ideology ignore bitcoin in their reactions, some people differ from bitcoin approaches for various reasons, there are also many people who have heard about bitcoin but they do not dare to explore it on their own or they are simply not knowledgeable about issues related to the internet,... bitcoin has created a revolution but sadly, the reality is that there are still many people in the world who do not know about bitcoin. We have to admit this, maybe the future ưill..

[DooMAD]

Should I also mention about Mt. Gox exchange, which lost 850.000 BTC

Yeah, that must have been about 10 years ago now.  I remember advising people at the time to stop depositing funds there once all the red flags started waving, but some people continued doing it.  Withdrawals were disabled, but idiots kept pouring their fiat and BTC into that gaping abyss.  Pure denial.  They genuinely thought they'd be rich.  The only conclusion I can draw is "Dumb speculators are dumb".

That event should have marked a significant shift in how the community interact with middlemen, but absolutely nothing changed.  What's obvious to some sadly isn't obvious to all.  As such, I can't really say I'm surprised so few people have learned anything from Gox (and the numerous other failed exchanges since then).

  

[Litzki1990]

To understand that we are now living in the highest age of technology, many people are still not included in civilization even after this extreme improvement of technology. There are still many people in the world who cannot use a smart phone or who are not connected to the internet. It is surprising that many people have not been civilized in this time, where nowadays people are keeping up with the world news through a small mobile phone using the internet. Just as many people are uncivilized now, 12 years from now there will be many people who don't know about Bitcoin. All the people in the world together will never know about Bitcoin. But now people know more about Bitcoin than 12 years later people will know more about Bitcoin and the number of Bitcoin users will increase a lot.

[Luzin]

To understand that we are now living in the highest age of technology, many people are still not included in civilization even after this extreme improvement of technology. There are still many people in the world who cannot use a smart phone or who are not connected to the internet. It is surprising that many people have not been civilized in this time, where nowadays people are keeping up with the world news through a small mobile phone using the internet. Just as many people are uncivilized now, 12 years from now there will be many people who don't know about Bitcoin. All the people in the world together will never know about Bitcoin. But now people know more about Bitcoin than 12 years later people will know more about Bitcoin and the number of Bitcoin users will increase a lot.

Yes there are limitations on some people of the world and they do not have access to understand, know and use crypto. According to sources I've read, currently only 64% of people have internet access. Out of a total of 8.01 billion inhabitants that means only 5.16 billion. Of course this is also not all learning more about crypto and I think a lot of people access it just for entertainment or communication only. This means that the internet is becoming the main source of problems for the development of bitcoin for people who do not have Internet access. I also feel confident that people who don't have internet access may have a life that prioritizes basic needs such as eating and drinking. CMIIW

Source: https://wearesocial.com/id/blog/2023/01/the-changing-world-of-digital-in-2023-2/

[DapanasFruit]

I quite understand the frustration that some people who are appreciating the vision of Satoshi Nakamoto for Bitcoin all because after 12 years we are just scratching the surface...and now with the ETFs operating I can sense that institutions are taking over Bitcoin for their own financial interest. And there is nothing we can do about it all because no matter how idealistic we can be, we still have to face the realities of the market and that there are some bottlenecks that hinder people to use Bitcoin on a better P2P setting. Humans are greedy and no one is exempted of this fact with some more greedy than others and with some who can control their greediness effectively...and in the hands of greedy humans Bitcoin became more like a speculative asset made for possible profits. Although I would say there is nothing wrong with that...the problem is it should not be the focal matter with Bitcoin.