Some questions about safeness

[highfarmer]

Bought an amount of bitcoin just around christmas, not that much but hope at least I can have a chance of being on the futures carosuel. Now I am thinking about how I should store this in a safe way.

I use Electrum and since I am planning to just hold this there is no need to login to the encrypted wallet-file. I have created a watch-only-wallet so I can just have a look that everything is ok. I have also copied a backup on the wallet to an externel thing that I never use. I also remember the seed words, will remember them for the rest of my life I guess.

I have some questions and would be greatful to have some answers!

1. Lets say that Electrum wouldnt be used anymore in the future, would I still be able to use my wallet or are they in someone elses hands in one way or another?

2. IF an hacker would got inside my computer, and I never open and typing the passwords of the wallet, it would be very hard for them to got inside the wallet, right?

3. Would it be a better idea to delete the wallet file and just remember the seed words? Is that the most safe way to do it (if you remember of course!)? Lets say I deleted the file and the backup so nothing is physically there where are it then? Is it still a part of Electrum in some way? Should I be worring about futures updates of any changes in the system making it impossible to reach it with just the seeds?

4. Thinking about getting a cold storage setup. Was thinking about Trezor and Ledger but heard som bad news about them and was thinking about Cold Card instead. Am I correct if I say that the reason to have a cold card is to get the wallet file even safer, you still have seed words that can be use to getback the money, right?
Do I need that or is this safe enough for now? I was thinking that if I would buy that I would be paranoid that the company have a list of consumers saved or something like that so the risk to being attack instead would be bigger in the future. Maybe its better and more safe to just make it simple instead?

[1714207510]

1714207510

[1714207510]

1714207510

[1714207510]

1714207510

[1714207510]

1714207510

[1714207510]

1714207510

[ranochigo]

1. Lets say that Electrum wouldnt be used anymore in the future, would I still be able to use my wallet or are they in someone elses hands in one way or another?

No. Electrum is open source and there is bound to have a script to convert the seeds into the BIP32 key easily to extract the private keys. It won't be difficult at all.

2. IF an hacker would got inside my computer, and I never open and typing the passwords of the wallet, it would be very hard for them to got inside the wallet, right?

Depends. Remember, with the wallet files they can have unlimited attempts till you move your funds. In the future, when you access your wallet, they can also have a window of opportunity to steal your coins. If your password is predictable or reused, it won't be safe. There is also no guarantees that your computer isn't infected with malware already, with antivirus or not.

3. Would it be a better idea to delete the wallet file and just remember the seed words? Is that the most safe way to do it (if you remember of course!)? Lets say I deleted the file and the backup so nothing is physically there where are it then? Is it still a part of Electrum in some way? Should I be worring about futures updates of any changes in the system making it impossible to reach it with just the seeds?

No. Relying on your memory can be a bit risky though. If you somehow end up with amnesia or just forgetting it, it would be pretty terrible. It's better to keep it on paper somewhere.

4. Thinking about getting a cold storage setup. Was thinking about Trezor and Ledger but heard som bad news about them and was thinking about Cold Card instead. Am I correct if I say that the reason to have a cold card is to get the wallet file even safer, you still have seed words that can be use to getback the money, right?

They are hardware wallets. They are designed to secure the funds with the most convenience. You can explore air gapped wallets with LiveUSB or an old computer as well. That'll be far more secure than what you have right now and fairly easy to do with the guides around the forum and on Electrum website.

[highfarmer]

Ranochigo, thank you for the answers. Another couple of follow up-questions from me.

"No. Electrum is open source and there is bound to have a script to convert the seeds into the BIP32 key easily to extract the private keys. It won't be difficult at all."
Ok, so nothing to worry about then, using electrum?

"Depends. Remember, with the wallet files they can have unlimited attempts till you move your funds. In the future, when you access your wallet, they can also have a window of opportunity to steal your coins. If your password is predictable or reused, it won't be safe. There is also no guarantees that your computer isn't infected with malware already, with antivirus or not."
Its a unice password, never use it for anything else and I think its very hard to break. I see what you are saying, no one should ever be 100% sure that they are free from virus and malware. But the risk should be closer to 0.00000001 % than 90% I hope?

"No. Relying on your memory can be a bit risky though. If you somehow end up with amnesia or just forgetting it, it would be pretty terrible. It's better to keep it on paper somewhere."
But if I would remember it (or write it down in a safe or somewhere other safe place) it would as good as having a cold storage-thing?

"They are hardware wallets. They are designed to secure the funds with the most convenience. You can explore air gapped wallets with LiveUSB or an old computer as well. That'll be far more secure than what you have right now and fairly easy to do with the guides around the forum and on Electrum website."
But even then the saftest thing would be to write the seed down? You should never rely on a device on its own? Have heard a lot of good things about Cold Card MK3, what do you people here think about it, is it a good option?

[jackjack]

About keeping on paper: be subtle, don't write what it is
You can "cut" the paper in several pieces, mark them as outlook.com password, store them in a password manager, etc
About hardware wallets: Ledger is a big no IMO

Its a unice password, never use it for anything else and I think its very hard to break. I see what you are saying, no one should ever be 100% sure that they are free from virus and malware. But the risk should be closer to 0.00000001 % than 90% I hope?

There is still some risk, better use an offline wallet as ranochigo said
If you're using Windows it is suicide

But if I would remember it (or write it down in a safe or somewhere other safe place) it would as good as having a cold storage-thing?

Writing it down make it possible for other people to find it
Otherwise if you have a 100% reliable memory, the only possible way to lose them is you dying

Whatever you do, make (encrypted) backups

[Charles-Tim]

Writing it down make it possible for other people to find it
Otherwise if you have a 100% reliable memory, the only possible way to lose them is you dying
Whatever you do, make (encrypted) backups

Offline back up like writing it down on paper or metalic sheet are the best way. Although, it is called mnemonic, but memorizing it will be the easiest way to forget it, never trust on your memory to such extent, no memory can be 100% perfect. Even, if you memorize it, you still need to have offline backup and not depending on your memory but on the offline backup.

[FatFork]

@highfarmer, If you don't own a reasonably large amount of bitcoin, you don't even need a hardware wallet. There are other solutions that can give you equivalent or better functionality (desktop/mobile wallets) or security (paper wallets).
In your particular situation, I would recommend creating a paper wallet (in a secure manner) and moving bitcoin to it for safekeeping. You can configure the Electrum wallet in watch-only mode so that you can monitor the status of your assets on a regular basis.

I agree with Charles-Tim. Relying solely on your memory is not the smartest solution. People tend to forget, especially information that is not used often.

[Oshosondy]

Bought an amount of bitcoin just around christmas, not that much but hope at least I can have a chance of being on the futures carosuel. Now I am thinking about how I should store this in a safe way.

The best option for you is to have a paper wallet, you will be have an address and a private key which you can sweep or import to wallet anytime you need your fund. To get hardware wallet you need to have much bitcoin to store, but you said only small amount, then paper wallet is good for that.

About electrum wallet you do not need to worry but electrum is open source, it will exist even in the future. If it is no more existing, you have your seed phrase, if you have it you will be able to recover your funds back on another wallet. The seed phrase can be used to generate seeds and master private keys using some tools.

[Upgrade00]

But even then the saftest thing would be to write the seed down? You should never rely on a device on its own?

Having backups is very important if you hold bitcoins, this could be written down on a piece of paper or engraved on a more durable substance so as to resist damage. It's technically not the same thing as cold storage. Even if you owned a hardware wallet, it's good practice to keep backups, preferably more than one in different safe locations.

Also, never rely on a wallet software or hardware as this is a decentralized network, this is why it's advisable to use a wallet that is open source, so you do not have to trust them but rather verify every piece of information.

[HCP]

1. Lets say that Electrum wouldnt be used anymore in the future, would I still be able to use my wallet or are they in someone elses hands in one way or another?

No. Electrum is open source and there is bound to have a script to convert the seeds into the BIP32 key easily to extract the private keys. It won't be difficult at all.

There is already this tool (forked from Ian Coleman's BIP39 tool): https://github.com/FarCanary/ElectrumSeedTester

Takes an Electrum seed, converts to BIP32 and outputs all your addresses/private keys from various derivation paths etc.


And while it doesn't currently support importing Electrum seeds, Sparrow wallet will import Electrum wallet files.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Ok, so nothing to worry about then, using electrum?

In terms of Electrum disappearing and you being unable to access your coins - no, nothing to worry about. Even if Electrum did stop being developed, you can use old versions to recover from your seed phrase and extract your private keys. There are also a number of other wallets which accept Electrum seed phrases, and the way that Electrum turns seed phrases in to private keys is also widely known and BIP39 tools are easily modified to work with Electrum seed phrases.

Its a unice password, never use it for anything else and I think its very hard to break. I see what you are saying, no one should ever be 100% sure that they are free from virus and malware. But the risk should be closer to 0.00000001 % than 90% I hope?

Impossible to put a figure on it. The only way to be sure your computer does not have any malware on it is to permanently disconnect it from the internet and then format it and install a clean open source OS on it, and even then it isn't 100%.

But if I would remember it (or write it down in a safe or somewhere other safe place) it would as good as having a cold storage-thing?

Yes. If you write down the seed phrase on paper, and wipe all electronic data relating to your wallet, seed phrase, or private keys, then that is effectively cold storage. Do not rely on your memory for your seed phrase. Millions of completely well people every year suffer memory loss from completely unpredictable events such as accidents or strokes. It could happen to you, and then your coins are lost forever.

But even then the saftest thing would be to write the seed down? You should never rely on a device on its own?

Regardless of what type of wallet you use, including hardware wallets, your should still write your seed phrase down on paper as back up.