... Vitamin-D Rollout following 82% reduction in COVID-19 deaths in Spain

[Cnut237]

The best approach is to take the vaccine. This not only protects you, but also helps to reduce transmission and so protects the as-yet-unvaccinated people as well.

That's simply not true. Vaccines do not prevent you from catching the virus or transmitting it, at least in principle it has not been demonstrated, what they do seem to do is to prevent you from developing a serious clinical picture.

I'll concede that it's not yet proven, but early studies do suggest a reduction in transmission.

~

Sounds like Geert Vanden Bossche (DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine "expert") knows less than most vaccine experts, which means he's not a part of the overwhelming consensus that Covid vaccines are a good idea. Healthy debate is important, but at the same time you can always find one "expert" to support any given position.

[BADecker]

The best approach is to take the vaccine. This not only protects you, but also helps to reduce transmission and so protects the as-yet-unvaccinated people as well.

That's simply not true. Vaccines do not prevent you from catching the virus or transmitting it, at least in principle it has not been demonstrated, what they do seem to do is to prevent you from developing a serious clinical picture.

I'll concede that it's not yet proven, but early studies do suggest a reduction in transmission.

~

Sounds like Geert Vanden Bossche (DMV, PhD, independent virologist and vaccine "expert") knows less than most vaccine experts, which means he's not a part of the overwhelming consensus that Covid vaccines are a good idea. Healthy debate is important, but at the same time you can always find one "expert" to support any given position.

This https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294239.msg56518102#msg56518102 shows us that there are all kinds of contradictory thoughts and arguments about effectiveness of all of it. And such contradictions are among the whole medical group.

[Cnut237]

there are all kinds of contradictory thoughts and arguments about effectiveness of all of it.

This is true. For example, some people believe that vaccines are effective, some people believe they aren't. Some people believe the Earth is round*, some people believe it's flat. Some people believe in human-caused climate change, some people think it's a scam.

The issue is that some opinions align with the data, and others do not. Some opinions are reached based on what the data tell us. For other people, opinions are often formed without any consideration of evidence, and then selective evidence is sought to bolster the pre-determined conclusion. Approach the data with an open mind, and you'll generally head towards the truth.


*okay, an oblate spheroid, but with mountains and stuff.

[Poker Player]

there are all kinds of contradictory thoughts and arguments about effectiveness of all of it.

This is true. For example, some people believe that vaccines are effective, some people believe they aren't. Some people believe the Earth is round*, some people believe it's flat. Some people believe in human-caused climate change, some people think it's a scam.

The issue is that some opinions align with the data, and others do not. Some opinions are reached based on what the data tell us. For other people, opinions are often formed without any consideration of evidence, and then selective evidence is sought to bolster the pre-determined conclusion. Approach the data with an open mind, and you'll generally head towards the truth.


*okay, an oblate spheroid, but with mountains and stuff.

In general I agree with what you say but we must not forget that data and theories can also be presented to support false facts, especially when there is a lot of money involved.

We don't have an algorithm that allows us to decide if the presentation of data and a certain theory are true, that's why I keep a skeptical mind when there is a lot of money involved.

[BADecker]

^^^ The US recommended daily allowance for vitamin D is 600 international units - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html. This is BS. Standard 5,000 iu caplets isn't enough for most active people. Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

[Cnut237]

we must not forget that data and theories can also be presented to support false facts, especially when there is a lot of money involved.

This is a good point and is definitely true, yes. Thanks - I should have qualified my statement. It can at times certainly be difficult to distinguish between impartial studies and those that are funded to produce specific desired results. Following the money, where it's obvious or visible, can help to inform our understanding of what is and what is not a reliable study.

This is a common argument I use when discussing climate change with climate-skeptics...  the big polluters and fossil-fuel lobby obviously have a vested interest in denying human-caused climate change, similar to the 'cigarettes are safe' argument pushed by the tobacco industry a few decades back.

[Poker Player]

Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

That what you just said is bordering on trolling. No doctor who is most favorable to the use of megadoses of vitamin D is going to tell you to take that amount just like that. If you go over 20k a day it's best to get blood work done and at 50k you have to be supervised by a doctor. I don't know which nutritionist you go to but those mega amounts are only used to treat certain diseases, as for example Dr. Coimbra does with autoimmune diseases.

[BADecker]

Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

That what you just said is bordering on trolling. No doctor who is most favorable to the use of megadoses of vitamin D is going to tell you to take that amount just like that. If you go over 20k a day it's best to get blood work done and at 50k you have to be supervised by a doctor. I don't know which nutritionist you go to but those mega amounts are only used to treat certain diseases, as for example Dr. Coimbra does with autoimmune diseases.

That what you just said is bordering on trolling.

I didn't say doctor. I said nutrition professional, right?... although some of them are doctors, as well, right? Many nutritional professionals suggest that probably even higher mega-doses of V-D than I take are basically harmless.

Are you going to believe doctors? Consider the American Cancer Society:

The American Cancer Society (ACS) is a nationwide voluntary health organization dedicated to eliminating cancer. Established in 1913, the society is organized into six geographical regions of both medical and lay volunteers operating in more than 250 Regional offices throughout the United States.[2] Its global headquarters is located in the American Cancer Society Center in Atlanta, Georgia. The ACS publishes the journals Cancer, CA: A Cancer Journal for Clinicians and Cancer Cytopathology.[4]

These jokers have been around for more than 100 years. Every now and again they suggest that they will have the cure in, like, a year or two. People believe them. People have hope in them. So they go under the knife, or get poisoned by chemo, burned by radiation... and die. But Dr. Max Gerson was curing cancer nutritionally right and left back in the '40s and '50s. So they kicked him out of the United States.

[Poker Player]

I didn't say doctor. I said nutrition professional, right?...

I didn't say you said doctor. I am saying that if you are taking those amounts you should be supervised by a doctor.

Many nutritional professionals suggest that probably even higher mega-doses of V-D than I take are basically harmless.

Ok. Links please. I've been reading a lot about vitamin D for years, I even take about 20k daily (average) but I haven't heard about those many nutritional professionals saying that amounts higher than 50k are harmless.

[BADecker]

I didn't say doctor. I said nutrition professional, right?...

I didn't say you said doctor. I am saying that if you are taking those amounts you should be supervised by a doctor. - And I'm saying that a general practitioner doctor shouldn't be giving anybody advice about nutrition. Why not? He/she doesn't have the training... or get him/her to show you his/her certificate of training first.

Many nutritional professionals suggest that probably even higher mega-doses of V-D than I take are basically harmless.

Ok. Links please. I've been reading a lot about vitamin D for years, I even take about 20k daily (average) but I haven't heard about those many nutritional professionals saying that amounts higher than 50k are harmless.

Look at this search - https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=vitamin+D+safety+at+high+dosages&ia=web.

One of the sites found says:

Can You Take Too Much Vitamin D?

While it is possible to take too much vitamin D, toxicity is very rare.

In fact, you would need to take extremely high doses of 50,000 IU (1,250 mcg) or more for a long period of time (35).

Go to the site and review the references. Note that the sites searched for are basically medical sites. And again, the medical isn't interested in keeping you well. They would lose your money.

[Poker Player]

-snip

Yeah, well. There is one thing we agree on, the current guidelines for how much vitamin D to take are very low, if everyone would take higher doses (or sunbathe more) they would get multiple benefits, including a strong immune system, etc.

But don't just give me a link from a search because I can give you a bunch of links that don't say that. A GP may not be the best person to give nutrition advice but this is not just about nutrition, vitamin D is not a food, it is actually a prohormone. And again I tell you that taking high doses, over 20k regularly is best supervised by a doctor especially to monitor vitamin D levels and blood calcium.

[BADecker]

-snip

Yeah, well. There is one thing we agree on, the current guidelines for how much vitamin D to take are very low, if everyone would take higher doses (or sunbathe more) they would get multiple benefits, including a strong immune system, etc.

But don't just give me a link from a search because I can give you a bunch of links that don't say that. A GP may not be the best person to give nutrition advice but this is not just about nutrition, vitamin D is not a food, it is actually a prohormone. And again I tell you that taking high doses, over 20k regularly is best supervised by a doctor especially to monitor vitamin D levels and blood calcium.

Does this mean we have to physically go to the old libraries and get the old books out and research it ourselves? We could do it, because they are opening the libraries up here and there as we speak.

[virasog]

^^^ The US recommended daily allowance for vitamin D is 600 international units - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html. This is BS. Standard 5,000 iu caplets isn't enough for most active people. Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

That's the important of vitamins which improve your immunity system also. I always wonder would it not been better that just like governments made the mask mandatory while moving in public since the outcome of covid-19, it should have been much better if they would have asked people to take vitamins daily and make it compulsory too.

[Poker Player]

^^^ The US recommended daily allowance for vitamin D is 600 international units - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html. This is BS. Standard 5,000 iu caplets isn't enough for most active people. Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

That's the important of vitamins which improve your immunity system also. I always wonder would it not been better that just like governments made the mask mandatory while moving in public since the outcome of covid-19, it should have been much better if they would have asked people to take vitamins daily and make it compulsory too.

Yeah, well. That is the position I have defended. That having vitamin D levels of at least 60ng/ml is going to protect you against the virus at least as well as the vaccine. And vitamin D is not an experiment, you can get those levels by sunbathing (depends on where you live). If you add some vitamin C and zinc you further strengthen the immune system. There are a lot of studies on them that I have cited in other posts, published in Pubmed and other medical journals. What happens is that Big Pharma and the doctors paid by it are not interested in this and you are not going to see it on TV.

[Vatimins]

     Although vitamin D is proven to be an important and necessary vitamin for improving our body's immune system, it doesn't mean that taking loads of this vitamin can increase your immune system limitlessly. There is always a limit to how much vitamins you can intake and every limit differs on every person regardless of type. Vitamin D helps but not the solution, just like every other vitamin that our body needs.

[virasog]

^^^ The US recommended daily allowance for vitamin D is 600 international units - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html. This is BS. Standard 5,000 iu caplets isn't enough for most active people. Personally I take around 50,000 a day. Give your body a break. Start checking into it with your nutrition professional.

That's the important of vitamins which improve your immunity system also. I always wonder would it not been better that just like governments made the mask mandatory while moving in public since the outcome of covid-19, it should have been much better if they would have asked people to take vitamins daily and make it compulsory too.

Yeah, well. That is the position I have defended. That having vitamin D levels of at least 60ng/ml is going to protect you against the virus at least as well as the vaccine. And vitamin D is not an experiment, you can get those levels by sunbathing (depends on where you live). If you add some vitamin C and zinc you further strengthen the immune system. There are a lot of studies on them that I have cited in other posts, published in Pubmed and other medical journals. What happens is that Big Pharma and the doctors paid by it are not interested in this and you are not going to see it on TV.

For sure, if they promote this then they won't be earning big amount in form of high fees of covid-19 treatment and then profit from selling the vaccine. No one is going to tell the natural cheap treatments to keep you fit. This is not related to covid-19 but for all the virus/diseases. Doctors and Pharma have become a business rather then a social welfare for the benefit of the patients.

[Tash]

Vitamin D Is More Effective Than Flu Vaccine, Study Says
https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=147900

[Poker Player]

Vitamin D Is More Effective Than Flu Vaccine, Study Says
https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=147900

People who have adequate Vitamin D levels, I am talking about a minimum of 60ng/ml, report that they either do not get colds and do not catch the flu, or if they do, they get over it quickly and with few symptoms. I myself have experienced that. Regarding COVID-19 there are similar studies but they don't make Big Pharma any money,

[BADecker]

     Although vitamin D is proven to be an important and necessary vitamin for improving our body's immune system, it doesn't mean that taking loads of this vitamin can increase your immune system limitlessly. There is always a limit to how much vitamins you can intake and every limit differs on every person regardless of type. Vitamin D helps but not the solution, just like every other vitamin that our body needs.

There's a limit as to how much water a person can drink before he drowns himself. People simply don't drink enough water, or take enough vitamin D.

[DoctorMark]

This is one thing I did at the start of the pandemic, especially as I came from night work, I bought a bottle of max strength Vit D (5000IU) and I take one everyday with my eggs in the morning.