India makes ownership of Bitcoin criminal offense - How to respond?

[saddampbuh]

i get that they can shut down exchanges that take fiat but how exactly do you ban ownership of something intangible, like are they going to come to your house and scan your computer for the keys or invent a metal detector that detects ledger and trezor or something

[bryant.coleman]

i get that they can shut down exchanges that take fiat but how exactly do you ban ownership of something intangible, like are they going to come to your house and scan your computer for the keys or invent a metal detector that detects ledger and trezor or something

I guess they are primarily concerned with two aspects - conversion of cryptocurrency to fiat (and vice versa) and the purchase of various items from online marketplaces using cryptocurrency. Your point is very valid. It is very difficult to prove the ownership of a cryptocurrency wallet, even if it is having links to a KYC-enabled exchange. Unlike the case with bank/demat accounts, there is nothing that links a particular individual to a certain cryptocurrency wallet address.

But then you need to understand that the education level of ministers in the current Indian cabinet is not that great. Many of them have no idea about cryptocurrency and are mostly dependent on the bureaucrats for all this information. The bureaucrats are also not much better. Only when they implement the law, they are going to find out that it is such a blunder.

[Haunebu]

Why do you guys fall prey to such predatory tactics all the time? Hilarious. This isn't the first time this happened with the current Indian government and it certainly won't be the last in my opinion.

This is just another useless bill(most likely) which will probably be tossed aside. They have threatened crypto investors with jail etc multiple times before, but achieved nada at the end of the day.

Stop losing it everytime the media publicizes this crap for their own benefit. Just my 2 cents.

[killerfrost]

Regardless of them, their governments don't like this and everyone has to abide by the rules and the country in which they live. I think this is not too new in this market, and then everything will come to an end for this market, it will not happen and vice versa we still see Bitcoin with new values. I remember many countries claiming to ban the use of cryptocurrencies, and gradually I see them accepting and studying it , like that, we will see their government again one day make another decision.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Regardless of them, their governments don't like this and everyone has to abide by the rules and the country in which they live. I think this is not too new in this market, and then everything will come to an end for this market, it will not happen and vice versa we still see Bitcoin with new values. I remember many countries claiming to ban the use of cryptocurrencies, and gradually I see them accepting and studying it , like that, we will see their government again one day make another decision.

During the initial phase (around 2014-15), there was a lot of misinformation related to Bitcoin and that was when a lot of the countries tried to ban cryptocurrency. But that changed once it was known to all that only a minuscule fraction of the Bitcoin transactions are linked to illegal transactions. A lot of the countries which previously tried to ban them reversed their decision and made Bitcoin legal in their jurisdiction. But India seems to be moving in the opposite direction. They are trying to ban Bitcoin, although it was legal earlier.

[eaLiTy]

The parliament will meet again on 8th March. The second phase of the budget session will run from 8th March to 8th April, and during this time most of the bills that are on queue will be taken up and tabled before the parliament.

Lets see how things will go, there are bigger problems the government is facing right now, the farmers protest will be a priority by that time even though they downplay the gravity of the issue and till now they have not announced any recovery package for the economy.

But then you need to understand that the education level of ministers in the current Indian cabinet is not that great. Many of them have no idea about cryptocurrency and are mostly dependent on the bureaucrats for all this information. The bureaucrats are also not much better. Only when they implement the law, they are going to find out that it is such a blunder.

As if the government understands the rest of the issues in India . Take for example the farm law or the GST on how they are implemented or the demonetization or the CAA replicating the Nazi regime, there is nothing the current government did that is helping the common population. All the above mentioned were implemented without much thought process and you cannot expect anything different from them.

Hoping that the voting changes from EVM to the old ballot papers so that they do not tamper with the elections. If not how could they be in power even with all the blunders which includes selling of almost all PSU and we will see more sales by the government in the second phase of the budget.   

[bryant.coleman]

~
Hoping that the voting changes from EVM to the old ballot papers so that they do not tamper with the elections. If not how could they be in power even with all the blunders which includes selling of almost all PSU and we will see more sales by the government in the second phase of the budget.   

It is ridiculous to blame the EVM for the success of the right-wing. I am a regular visitor to India and I saw before my own eyes how the political scenario changed there. The UPA government of 2004-14 engaged in naked minority appeasement, which caused a polarization of the Hindu votes towards the BJP. The opposition needs to understand that if they want to win elections, then they need to prevent religious polarization. Because if polarization occurs, then it becomes 75% Hindus vs 25% non-Hindus.

And from what I have found, there is widespread support for the CAA and the farm laws. Opinion polls conducted by various news agencies also confirms the same. Once again, the opposition parties made the mistake of giving this a religious color. The media houses (many of which are supportive of the ruling party) seized the advantage and did the rest. They made CAA a Hindu vs Muslim issue. And similarly, the farm law protest is being painted as a Hindu vs Sikh issue.

[cheezcarls]

This is freaking ridiculous. I am sure that there will be riots later on if this bill has officially passed and come to fruition. I am also feeling that Indians may have to relocate themselves to another country by applying a working visa or even change citizenship.

If I were born as Indian and currently staying there, I would panic and plan ahead to move to another country where it’s crypto-friendly and will apply for a change of citizenship permanently.

[bryant.coleman]

This is freaking ridiculous. I am sure that there will be riots later on if this bill has officially passed and come to fruition. I am also feeling that Indians may have to relocate themselves to another country by applying a working visa or even change citizenship.

If I were born as Indian and currently staying there, I would panic and plan ahead to move to another country where it’s crypto-friendly and will apply for a change of citizenship permanently.

It is ridiculous. But the situation is not as favorable as that in the developed nations. The cryptocurrency market in India is quite large, with somewhere around 5 million to 10 million active users. But when compared to the overall population (1.4 billion), this would look like minuscule. 90% of the population doesn't have enough education to understand what is cryptocurrency and the technology behind it. If the government claim that cryptocurrency is being used for illegal purposes, then these people will support the government's stand. So forget about the users rioting, or even protesting against the move.

A better option is to travel to some other country, so that you can trade with your cryptocurrency holdings. But I guess stompix has already explained the impracticality of any such move in one of his posts within this thread.

[Kittygalore]

WOW, that what I call harsh legislation!

Are you sure about making the ownership a criminal offense?! I read the news in Coindesk - https://www.coindesk.com/india-would-ban-private-cryptocurrencies-under-proposed-legislation, and they didn't mention anything about criminal offenses.

Have read the article but haven't seen anything that means criminal offense but maybe this was just a misunderstanding. I hope that it wouldn't be the case because I don't like the idea of bitcoin being labeled illegal to be possessed which makes it to the same level as drugs. This legislation wouldn't be a problem for the people in India that uses cryptocurrency in the long run, Indian government has always had this on and off relationship with cryptocurrencies for the long while and most of the time those legislations didn't even last that long, I may not be accurate with that but I think that it is evident that each legislation doesn't have a permanent fangs to enforce the law which is a good thing for bitcoin community in India.

[Ucy]

I think they (Bitcoin users in the country) would do well if they rely on the fundamental laws in the country that prevent people (esp those in position of authority) from abusing their powers. I believe there are laws in the country that recognize the right to own good assets like Bitcoin. What people in position of authority should focus more on is regulation and the prevention of abuse/misuse of good cryptocurrency. If they could jail people from using crypto, they could aswell jail people from using any other asset they don't like whether the asset is good or bad.

[vintages]

That's too inconsiderate.
There are worst crimes than this. I don't understand why government making life difficult for citizens.
Instead of creating this kind of law, why not regulate it.
At the long run, I feel they will still come back to Bitcoin, so why all this.

[Clement Kaliyar]

If they could jail people from using crypto, they could aswell jail people from using any other asset they don't like whether the asset is good or bad.

You have no idea about the fascist government that is ruling India, they will jail anyone that they seem to be challenging their views, if you look at the current situation you have no idea how many news reporters are in jail as well as comedians who made jokes against them, only a fascist government can sent people to jail without committing any crime and that is what they are doing.

[Smartvirus]

If they could jail people from using crypto, they could aswell jail people from using any other asset they don't like whether the asset is good or bad.

You have no idea about the fascist government that is ruling India, they will jail anyone that they seem to be challenging their views, if you look at the current situation you have no idea how many news reporters are in jail as well as comedians who made jokes against them, only a fascist government can sent people to jail without committing any crime and that is what they are doing.

Of what difference is this from a dictatorship? To me, they are the same exact thing, just redecorated. Otherwise, what do you call a system that has no respect for fundamental human rights, a system that doesn't allow free will or permits you to ask questions! I feel for the people of India even as I cry my continent!

Sometimes I begin to o wonder if those in places of power and are antibitcoin aren't observing trends of Elion Musk who happens to be the richest man in the world now and a proud supporters of bitcoin and cryptocurencies. These are proud opportunist and business moguls that are able to see the future of potential commodities and how to exploit it.

Sadly the Indian government has planned to subject it's citizens to a high level of poverty than they have it today. Aren't these leaders supposed to aid the people's suffering? Bitcoin empowers more than any government can ever do and it never segregates as per status. Imagine the lots of users running signature on the forum.
It's just sad for Indians.

[Lauren Smith]

If they could jail people from using crypto, they could aswell jail people from using any other asset they don't like whether the asset is good or bad.

You have no idea about the fascist government that is ruling India, they will jail anyone that they seem to be challenging their views, if you look at the current situation you have no idea how many news reporters are in jail as well as comedians who made jokes against them, only a fascist government can sent people to jail without committing any crime and that is what they are doing.

Exactly. They also have many uneducated people & often use religious doctrine to excuse some of their behavior. One of the worst places to live. They can't arrest anyone because they don't know who is holding crypto.
It is impossible to track. There many things that are illegal and still done. They have quite a few other problems they should probably be focusing on that but I guess money is number one for them and the fact that so many people are unemp[layed doesn't matter. Maybe they should be planning to educate the country better rather than this.

[saffira]

Not specifically pointing out bitcoin. It is referring generally on cryptocurrencies. I think this article only cause panic on crypto holders to sell their coins rather than losing the value and be accused as criminals. How can you be criminal when you invest using your own money. On the other side, maybe the government is planning something better for dealing with crypto but I guess it is somehow impossible to control crypto.

[jjdub7]

Find a friend that you trust outside India, best with an LLC, and sign a contract with them to 'manage their crypto actives' with a salary of 1000 rupees per month.

This is valid for every destination where crypto is forbidden or heavily taxed. There are other options, but this is the easiest one.

[Sithara007]

Find a friend that you trust outside India, best with an LLC, and sign a contract with them to 'manage their crypto actives' with a salary of 1000 rupees per month.

This is valid for every destination where crypto is forbidden or heavily taxed. There are other options, but this is the easiest one.

If the Indian government is stupid enough to make the proposed bill in to a law, then there is no doubt that we will see a lot of companies offering such services to the Indians. They will trade with cryptocurrency in countries where it is legal (i.e all the other countries apart from India) and then they will send the fiat funds to the Indian user, marking it as "software purchase" or something similar. Cryptocurrency wallets can't be tied to a particular individual, and therefore the government won't be able to do anything in this case. But don't be disappointed. They will come up with even more idiotic laws.

[torrantz]

Maybe you gonna be safe as long as you don't detected by government of using cryptocurrencies. AFAIK, if you only make transaction with company that operates outside India the government not gonna find out and since they seem to ban Bitcoin meaning there won't be any local exchange which actually acts as detector to find out who uses bitcoin thus you gonna be forced to use global exchange.
However, the punishment seem too harsh, so many years just for owning bitcoin that you buy with your own money, if the government don't feed their citizen why they need to make such harsh punishment.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Maybe you gonna be safe as long as you don't detected by government of using cryptocurrencies. AFAIK, if you only make transaction with company that operates outside India the government not gonna find out and since they seem to ban Bitcoin meaning there won't be any local exchange which actually acts as detector to find out who uses bitcoin thus you gonna be forced to use global exchange.
However, the punishment seem too harsh, so many years just for owning bitcoin that you buy with your own money, if the government don't feed their citizen why they need to make such harsh punishment.

The government itself knows that no matter what sort of laws they come up with, the complete eradication of cryptocurrency usage is not possible. That is why they want to terrorize the users with such harsh prison terms. Just imagine this. If this law is passed by the parliament, then anyone owning a particular code in his computer can be imprisoned for 10 years. On the other hand, the punishment for attempt to murder is also 10 years. Violent rape is punishable by a term of 7 years in jail. According to the Indian government, if you own cryptocurrency in your personal wallet, then you deserve more punishment compared to the rapists and murderers. So the intention is very clear. They are imposing disproportionate punishments, in order to create a feeling of fear in the mind of cryptocurrency users. And they believe that it will result in 99.99% of the cryptocurrency users selling their assets.