A Single User With Multiple Accounts: Are There Reasons For Them Being Accepted?

[JollyGood]

There is an excellent thread created by nutildah where he exposed a user and his many alt-accounts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5313637.0


In light of the on-going conversation regarding whether it is morally or ethically correct for a single user controlling and operating multiple accounts for the sake of earning crypto for displaying a signature, I wanted to add to this and ask direct questions while seeking consensus:


1- If a single user uses multiple accounts to promote and participate in the same signature campaign - is that acceptable?

2- If a single user uses multiple accounts to promote and participate in different/unrelated signature campaigns using the same campaign manager more than once - is that acceptable?

3- If a single user uses multiple accounts to promote and participate in different/unrelated signature campaigns never using the same campaign manager more than once - is that acceptable?

4- If a single user uses multiple accounts not to promote and participate in signature campaigns but simply posts either to their own other accounts or in general to other users - is that acceptable?

5- If a single user uses multiple accounts not to promote and participate in signature campaigns but simply posts either to their own other accounts or in general or for nefarious purposes - is that acceptable?

6- Under no circumstances should single users operate more than one account (except for account recovery purposes)

7- If a single user uses multiple accounts on multiple devices (pc/mobile) but hides their other accounts - is that acceptable?

8- If a single user uses multiple accounts on multiple devices (pc/mobile) but makes it openly known it is their account - is that acceptable?



I have read the thread in question and in part enjoyed some of the debate which essentially boils down to some users which are saying if someone managed to get multiple accounts on to a signature campaign then no harm done and the fact they were not removed earlier means they had a certain quality of posting the other side which says multiple accounts stop others from getting on to the same campaign and it is deception and cheating.

Of course another part of the equation are the terms and conditions of participating in those signature campaigns because most if not all do not allow multiple accounts.

Though every single permutation cannot be listed I have chose six, it would be interesting to see the results of the poll but at the same time all views are invited so kindly post here and share them.

[1715402717]

1715402717

[LoyceV]

6) Under no circumstances should single users operate more than one account (except for account recovery purposes)

Nice one!

A reminder:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

If you're hesitant to say something controversial because you don't want it to be associated with your name, please create an alt account and say it.

Even hilariousandco/etc joined 2 different signature campaigns. I don't see a problem with that, as long as it's not done in secret. And that secret part is the key: if you know what you're doing wouldn't be accepted if it came out, you shouldn't be doing it.

[JollyGood]

Loyce I am about to update the thread with more options but I think I get your point 

6) Under no circumstances should single users operate more than one account (except for account recovery purposes)

Nice one!

A reminder:

the forum's mission to be as free as possible.

If you're hesitant to say something controversial because you don't want it to be associated with your name, please create an alt account and say it.

Even hilariousandco/etc joined 2 different signature campaigns. I don't see a problem with that, as long as it's not done in secret. And that secret part is the key: if you know what you're doing wouldn't be accepted if it came out, you shouldn't be doing it.

[YOSHIE]

Personally, if asked to vote, I prefer pawn number (1).

1) If a single user uses multiple accounts to promote and participate in the same signature campaign - is that acceptable?

Point number one if it describes the meaning or the effect of the actions of Alt Accounts who cheat will have the worst effect on other communities in this forum and can be said to be very greedy.

Main reason:
back to the number rule: 18,
while they are not involved in cheating and violation, I think Alt account is fine.

Second reason:
Cheating with Alt in a campaign is, obviously, disliked by every campaign manager as well as the community in this forum: example:, one of the campaign rules.

Other reasons cannot be accepted:
• basically each campaign will accept 5-20 participants to promote their advertisement, with the conditions applied.
• While the members applying for more than 50 members, though, are accepted 2-3 members, when vacancies are vacant.
• At least by not involving Alt Account in it other members' can be just as happy as others.
• If someone involves 2-3 Alt in the campaign, automatically if accepted, other members will be annoyed and disappointed if caught, Because Alt's account is greedy, of course humans like that are evil, because of their behavior, other members cannot be accepted in the campaign.

The conclusion: involving Alt's account in the campaign, companies, managers, cannot accept, because they are classified as greedy and evil.

Meaning: such an act is unacceptable.

[lovesmayfamilis]

The last two points 7 and 8, in my opinion, are the most normal reasons why owning multiple accounts will not raise any suspicion or accusations. Let the user hide his alternate entry if he does not commit any negative actions, but does not want to talk about it, this is his right.
Seriously speaking, why does one user need to have more than 2 accounts? This is already beyond the normal range, in my opinion. And hints at some split personality. And thus, it is not difficult to guess that they will be used for fraud.
Having several accounts for promoting bounty programs and not making the most naive mistakes, I think, is also not prohibited.
We must always take into account the fact that if we accuse someone, we must have a decent evidence base. And if it is not there, then there is no one to blame, that is, there are no prohibitions on what cannot be proved.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't have a problem with people using alt accounts to participate in multiple signature campaigns/bounties, as long as they're not using more than one account in the same campaign/bounty.  Nor does it matter to me who the campaign manager is.  If someone was enrolled in two of Yahoo62278's campaigns, I think that's not against the rules and I don't think it's morally or ethically wrong.

What alt accounts should not do is make posts in the same thread, giving the impression that there's a genuine conversation happening--that borders on spam, if you ask me, and I've caught people doing that in the past.  And frankly, as long as the person with multiple accounts is making reasonably good posts across the board, who cares? 

And whether any of us like alt accounts or not, it's up to the campaign/bounty managers to create the rules that deal with them. 

[LoyceV]

If there's a difference for the user entering multiple campaigns from the same or from different campaign managers, doesn't that imply it's also not acceptable for a campaign manager to manage more than one campaign?
If we're going towards communism anyway, shouldn't all users have equal chance of managing the campaign? And what if a campaign manager users multiple accounts to manage different campaigns? Is that acceptable? Zapo/aTriz comes to mind.

[JollyGood]

~snip~

The conclusion: involving Alt's account in the campaign, companies, managers, cannot accept, because they are classified as greedy and evil.

Meaning: such an act is unacceptable.

I understand your sentiments I really do but within the scenarios you stated my opinion is the word greedy would be applicable but evil is a bit excessive...

The last two points 7 and 8, in my opinion, are the most normal reasons why owning multiple accounts will not raise any suspicion or accusations. Let the user hide his alternate entry if he does not commit any negative actions, but does not want to talk about it, this is his right.
Seriously speaking, why does one user need to have more than 2 accounts? This is already beyond the normal range, in my opinion. And hints at some split personality. And thus, it is not difficult to guess that they will be used for fraud.
Having several accounts for promoting bounty programs and not making the most naive mistakes, I think, is also not prohibited.
We must always take into account the fact that if we accuse someone, we must have a decent evidence base. And if it is not there, then there is no one to blame, that is, there are no prohibitions on what cannot be proved.

People could have a whole host of reasons why they would use more than one account in the forum. Maybe the common reasons would be to join multiple signature campaigns but there have to be other reasons too and not all of them have to involve deception.

I don't have a problem with people using alt accounts to participate in multiple signature campaigns/bounties, as long as they're not using more than one account in the same campaign/bounty.  Nor does it matter to me who the campaign manager is.  If someone was enrolled in two of Yahoo62278's campaigns, I think that's not against the rules and I don't think it's morally or ethically wrong.

What alt accounts should not do is make posts in the same thread, giving the impression that there's a genuine conversation happening--that borders on spam, if you ask me, and I've caught people doing that in the past.  And frankly, as long as the person with multiple accounts is making reasonably good posts across the board, who cares?  

And whether any of us like alt accounts or not, it's up to the campaign/bounty managers to create the rules that deal with them.  

Interesting views. I would have thought most users might be thinking two things:

First, that using multiple accounts for signature campaigns are acceptable as long as they are not enrolled in the same campaign using more than one account unless it is with explicit acceptance from the campaign manager - therefore the campaign manger would know either via PM or off forum chat.

Second, that using multiple accounts for signature campaigns are acceptable as long as they are not using the same campaign in more than one campaign.

Hopefully others will start posting here to share their views....

[The Cryptovator]

For me, there is no issue using multiple accounts if he/she doesn't abuse forum rules & campaign rules as well. Never mind if the accounts as known or hidden. Because forum allows to create multiple accounts, and currently it's not very easy to build an account on the forum due to the merit system. If the campaign manager allows multiple accounts from the same person, then it shouldn't count campaign abuse since the manager is aware of that. But honestly, it's really not looking good. Joining different campaigns under different managers would be a nice choice to avoid campaign abuse.

[Quickseller]

I dont think there should be rules or regulations for the sole purpose of having a rule or regulation. Some rules are intended to help prevent spam like posts, however if someone can make many posts without quality suffering, there shouldn't be a problem.

The argument that a campaign would lose out on free advertising from excess posts someone makes falls on its face. There should be no expectation that someone will receive something in exchange for nothing, and someone may not provide a service if they knew they were not going to receive compensation for said service.

IMO the best policy is to make everything transparent, and to make sure everyone involved is fully aware of the circumstances.

[suchmoon]

IMO the best policy is to make everything transparent, and to make sure everyone involved is fully aware of the circumstances.

Please do.

[Vod]

IMO the best policy is to make everything transparent, and to make sure everyone involved is fully aware of the circumstances.

Then why are you still claiming you didn't lose the election?   If that's your true opinion, you are a hypocrite.

[mindrust]

If the user isn't milking the forum for money the damage he cause is kind of acceptable.

However using multiple accounts without informing the public causes some other type of damage and it is not spamming.

Spam is the least of our problems here.

It is sockpuppeting.

If you have enough sockpuppets under your control, it is like having a media of your own. Like having an army of fake individuals. This is as dangerous as robbing the sig camps.

But if a person is determined enough, he/she can fool everyone else so it is pointless to try to fight this unless he/she makes huge mistakes and give signs. They sometimes do.

tldr; it is better to have one account per person but if they decide not to, you cannot do jackshit to counter it.

[JollyGood]

If there's a difference for the user entering multiple campaigns from the same or from different campaign managers, doesn't that imply it's also not acceptable for a campaign manager to manage more than one campaign?
If we're going towards communism anyway, shouldn't all users have equal chance of managing the campaign? And what if a campaign manager users multiple accounts to manage different campaigns? Is that acceptable? Zapo/aTriz comes to mind.

Though the users Zapo and aTriz do sound familiar I cannot recall interacting with them and have no recollection of those names being involved in anything shady so cannot comment but in principle I think a campaign manager is hired in the knowledge he is working on multiple projects/campaigns. It is then the campaign manager who makes his own rules as to what conditions are in place before anybody could participate in his campaigns which would involve a ban on multiple accounts so I think there is a difference.

For me, there is no issue using multiple accounts if he/she doesn't abuse forum rules & campaign rules as well. Never mind if the accounts as known or hidden. Because forum allows to create multiple accounts, and currently it's not very easy to build an account on the forum due to the merit system. If the campaign manager allows multiple accounts from the same person, then it shouldn't count campaign abuse since the manager is aware of that. But honestly, it's really not looking good. Joining different campaigns under different managers would be a nice choice to avoid campaign abuse.

I would think that might be a reasonable thing to do though there is no perfect way to handle it simply because there in no consensus in the forum about it. Some might find it acceptable if using multiple accounts for signature campaigns but not using the same campaign manager twice unless they are told of the accounts before participation - might be something for those involved with multiple accounts in a single campaign should consider.

[eddie13]

we're going towards communism

Yup basically..


No alts in a sig camp accepted anonymously is a stupid rule because it’s unenforceable..
Breaching contracts is bad, but their gonna do it, and you’ll be chasing them forever..

Get rid of the rule.. It’s more fair anyway, if he can get 5 accounts in and you can’t even get one, he wins.. Completely fair..

Breaching contract though is untrustworthy..
You guys ever see the bait bike pranks on YouTube? Lol

[actmyname]

What alt accounts should not do is make posts in the same thread, giving the impression that there's a genuine conversation happening--that borders on spam, if you ask me, and I've caught people doing that in the past.  And frankly, as long as the person with multiple accounts is making reasonably good posts across the board, who cares?

Given that the forum treats alternate accounts as the same cryptographic identity and that the forum rules are applied to mentioned identities (e.g. bans, consecutive posts), I see no reason why talking to yourself (between two accounts) would not constitute as spam. Rather than write a single post that is edited with the content or rather than replying to other users, the individual is effectively inflating their posts and creating meaningless replies.

Of course, once you start getting into multi-user discussions, it's a more complicated issue: do we have 51% discussion attacks where the alts control the conversation, yet are not considered spammers or rule-breakers because there is enough of an external flow of replies? What's the threshold here?

[Quickseller]

What alt accounts should not do is make posts in the same thread, giving the impression that there's a genuine conversation happening--that borders on spam, if you ask me, and I've caught people doing that in the past.  And frankly, as long as the person with multiple accounts is making reasonably good posts across the board, who cares?

Given that the forum treats alternate accounts as the same cryptographic identity and that the forum rules are applied to mentioned identities (e.g. bans, consecutive posts), I see no reason why talking to yourself (between two accounts) would not constitute as spam. Rather than write a single post that is edited with the content or rather than replying to other users, the individual is effectively inflating their posts and creating meaningless replies.

Of course, once you start getting into multi-user discussions, it's a more complicated issue: do we have 51% discussion attacks where the alts control the conversation, yet are not considered spammers or rule-breakers because there is enough of an external flow of replies? What's the threshold here?

My understanding is that if one person is banned then all their accounts are banned, even if some of their accounts don’t have a ban applied. I don’t think forum rules around multiposting applies to someone posting from two accounts, so it would be okay to use an alt to ask a question for example. If talking to yourself became excessive, they might get banned for low effort posts with a paid signature. Also, if excessive, they might get banned for bump spam if the conversation took place in a sales thread, but I think the threshold would be far above zero for this to happen.

[actmyname]

I don’t think forum rules around multiposting applies to someone posting from two accounts

IIRC there have been cases in the past of this happening - in particular, relating to bumps if memory serves.

In general, I don't think it's necessary to have a conversation with yourself. Any depth that you want to encompass in your post should simply be confined to a single account or better yet a single post - additional dialogue can be edited to the user's posts so I don't see how it can be constructive.

[Quickseller]

I don’t think forum rules around multiposting applies to someone posting from two accounts

IIRC there have been cases in the past of this happening - in particular, relating to bumps if memory serves.

In general, I don't think it's necessary to have a conversation with yourself. Any depth that you want to encompass in your post should simply be confined to a single account or better yet a single post - additional dialogue can be edited to the user's posts so I don't see how it can be constructive.

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has been banned for bump spam involving multiple accounts. I also think a few people have been banned for running bump spam services.

I would say it wouldn’t be unreasonable if someone who has a sales thread uses their alt account to ask a frequently asked question so long as the question is answered quickly so not to result in two bumps that seriously affect where the thread is located.

[actmyname]

I would say it wouldn’t be unreasonable if someone who has a sales thread uses their alt account to ask a frequently asked question so long as the question is answered quickly so not to result in two bumps that seriously affect where the thread is located.

Seems redundant given those specifications, doesn't it? I can't think of a reason to create two or more posts with an alt conversation - in what situation does one post or do a series of edits not suffice?Maybe some argument based on privacy and the ability to respond to a separate cryptographic identity - which is probably what the smarter alt-ring bumpers would also use as an excuse. I'm sure that people who have been doing account farming for a long time have figured out the optimal way to connect their accounts' replies together to reduce the amount of overall work while being just constructive enough to work under the forum rules.

Realistically, unless you reveal yourself to the forum and link multiple cryptographic identities together, no one will know about your alt accounts. Ban evasion is not difficult and neither is account farming. It's probably the road to a comfortable lifestyle for many people who live in low CoL areas.