Could Bitcoin Smash Socialism in Venezuela?

[DrBeer]

In order to take the right steps to fix the problem, you first need to understand the problem itself and properly assess it. In this case, the problem is not in the United States or sanctions or "bad weather". What is built today in Venezuela is called "idiotocracy". The reason is a populist with ambitions but without knowledge and skills to manage the country, business, and finances. Populism always ends badly. And populism and idiocy are guaranteed to lead to very negative consequences. And then neither bitcoin, nor dollar, aliens, nor reptilians and the world government will save them Idiocy is almost invincible ... It is a pity for the country and the population, but this is their choice, they should get "vaccinated" and the next time they first THINK and then choose and vote.

[justdimin]

This is a write up by someone who doesn't understand the fact that crypto IS socialist, and it is against dictatorship, Venezuela is most definitely 100% not a socialist nation, just because they "call" it that doesn't mean that it is a socialist one. What is socialism? It is the idea that everyone should be equal right? Well if there is a dictator at the top doing whatever he wants, how come everyone could be equal?

It means any nation with even one powerful position means that it is not a socialist nation, it is very very easily refutable, soviet union? Has Lenin and Stalin, Cuba? has Castro, north Korea? Has that fat dude whatever his name. If there is one dictator that means it is not a socialist nation and just putting socialism in the title doesn't make it socialist, it can't be socialist as long as people are not 100% all equal no matter what they are. Hence stop attacking socialism, it is Madura that made Venezuela like this, not socialism.

[malevolent]

The last transaction that would have been confirmed as I speak would have had to pay 102sat/b which's almost 8$ for the smallest tx.
You're telling me that people in Venezuela will pay 240$ a month, more than their median wage to buy stuff with bitcoin?
Get real, nobody is using bitcoin there to buy food with, and if somebody does he isn't using on-chain transaction.

As the article states, they're said to be using Airtm for off-chain transactions.

Hence stop attacking socialism, it is Madura that made Venezuela like this, not socialism.

It always ends badly for almost everyone involved so don't expect anything better than harsh criticism.

[bryant.coleman]

This is a write up by someone who doesn't understand the fact that crypto IS socialist, and it is against dictatorship, Venezuela is most definitely 100% not a socialist nation, just because they "call" it that doesn't mean that it is a socialist one. What is socialism? It is the idea that everyone should be equal right? Well if there is a dictator at the top doing whatever he wants, how come everyone could be equal?

It means any nation with even one powerful position means that it is not a socialist nation, it is very very easily refutable, soviet union? Has Lenin and Stalin, Cuba? has Castro, north Korea? Has that fat dude whatever his name. If there is one dictator that means it is not a socialist nation and just putting socialism in the title doesn't make it socialist, it can't be socialist as long as people are not 100% all equal no matter what they are. Hence stop attacking socialism, it is Madura that made Venezuela like this, not socialism.

Socialism means taking away wealth from the successful people (the so called "rich") and distributing it among the so called "poor". All the businesses will be owned by the state and the regime will decide when you should eat, when you take a dump and when and whom you should marry. Socialism can't be implemented by democratic means and that's why we have authoritarian regimes such as the ones in Cuba and North Korea. Those who support socialism are always people who have no experience of living in a socialist country. Ask someone in Cuba or North Korea their opinion about socialism and you will be much surprised.

[stompix]

~
Get real, nobody is using bitcoin there to buy food with, and if somebody does he isn't using on-chain transaction.

As the article states, they're said to be using Airtm for off-chain transactions.

Just as I said, they won't be using real coins but a centralized solution, and though it transforms crypto into bolivars, this is directly from AirTM:

According to an AirTM user survey, only 57% of recipients engaged with the funds. For some, even converting crypto to AirTM credits (AirUSD) inside a custodial user account was too much hassle.
For those who did access the funds, more than 2,000 Venezuelans said it was helpful for buying food. They typically did this by using AirTM to cash out bolivars as needed, using the digital wallet provider like a bank.

This is a write up by someone who doesn't understand the fact that crypto IS socialist,

Crypto is not socialist, crypto is pure capitalism.
Those that had money to invest have made more money, the ones that have zero to invest have zero.
There is nothing that resembles socialism in crypto in any way, no matter how much you try to twist reality.

It means any nation with even one powerful position means that it is not a socialist nation, it is very very easily refutable, soviet union? Has Lenin and Stalin, Cuba? has Castro, north Korea?

Oh, we know it, socialism hasn't failed one hundred times before because it wasn't the real socialism, the ones we're building now in our basements is the real deal.

[Obito]

It takes more than bitcoin to smash the problem in Venezuela, the problem is that they didn't invest in public works and all put their efforts into giving individuals money to live a luxurious life when the oil prices are still going good. The problem is the government, they are corrupt and they need to have a new people sitting on that chair because what they are doing is not effective. They need economic reforms that will flip the country upside down and everyone should be ready for it.

[Vishnu.Reang]

This is a write up by someone who doesn't understand the fact that crypto IS socialist,

Crypto is not socialist, crypto is pure capitalism.
Those that had money to invest have made more money, the ones that have zero to invest have zero.
There is nothing that resembles socialism in crypto in any way, no matter how much you try to twist reality.

It means any nation with even one powerful position means that it is not a socialist nation, it is very very easily refutable, soviet union? Has Lenin and Stalin, Cuba? has Castro, north Korea?

Oh, we know it, socialism hasn't failed one hundred times before because it wasn't the real socialism, the ones we're building now in our basements is the real deal.

LOL.. couldn't put it any better than this. On a serious note, I would have never expected socialists to appear here in Bitcointalk, but I guess times are changing. I would consider Bitcoin as the most powerful weapon against socialism, because it protects the citizens against wealth confiscation by the authorities. In simple words, Bitcoin is a socialist's worst nightmare.

And the talk about "real" socialism is very interesting. Is Josef Stalin a real socialist? He just killed 60 million.. not up to the mark. What about Mao Zedong? 40 million deaths is a bit lower than what I would have expected? Pol Pot? Just 2 million murders? No.. with that small number he can't be a real socialist. Perhaps Kim Jong Un? He is still there, and may be able to beat the record of Stalin..

[uneng]

I have no doubts bitcoin can help common citizens with their daily needs in Venezuela, but I totally disagree it can smash socialism there. In fact, crypto currencies are making the socialism maintenance in Venezuela, because a big part of the citizens' income is going to pay taxes that fund the government and all its employees, the *system*.
You know there are fast foods and probably other stores there accepting crypto as payment method without any interference from the government, what means it is not a threat to Maduro. Actually socialists have nothing to complain about bitcoin or crypto, because that is the way people are bringing money from outside to their country.

[Twentyonepaylots]

Depends if bitcoin really blew up in Venezuela. I heard news about the people there starting to use it, but I'm not specifically certain if it's in a very large scale type of usage, so nothing can be expected of it for now.

Still, it shows great promise and provided that more people are to learn more about bitcoin, there will become a huge possibility of cryptocurrency beating socialism in that country.

I have no doubts bitcoin can help common citizens with their daily needs in Venezuela, but I totally disagree it can smash socialism there. In fact, crypto currencies are making the socialism maintenance in Venezuela, because a big part of the citizens' income is going to pay taxes that fund the government and all its employees, the *system*.
You know there are fast foods and probably other stores there accepting crypto as payment method without any interference from the government, what means it is not a threat to Maduro. Actually socialists have nothing to complain about bitcoin or crypto, because that is the way people are bringing money from outside to their country.

Quite possible, especially when the upper echelons in the government aren't using their very own currencies as well, so there's not much more that bitcoin can do.

[stompix]

LOL.. couldn't put it any better than this. On a serious note, I would have never expected socialists to appear here in Bitcointalk, but I guess times are changing.

Why not?
Most of the socialists are not set on constructing a better system, on equality, or anything else, most of them want just a wealth redistribution, to get free money from the ones that have, if that is not possible all they do is praying and dreaming of ways to bring down this system which is not grating them free money.
In their naive eyes BTC can help destroy banks, can help destroy the current order, and maybe once this is done with there is hope for their own twisted society.

It's something common I've seen in multiple people that claim to be socialist, they are looking at BTC, not as a tool with which they can achieve their utopia but rather a tool of destruction, it's one of the standard ways of thinking for them, the first priority is the wealth of others.

Is Josef Stalin a real socialist? He just killed 60 million.. not up to the mark. What about Mao Zedong? 40 million deaths is a bit lower than what I would have expected? Pol Pot? Just 2 million murders? No.. with that small number he can't be a real socialist. Perhaps Kim Jong Un? He is still there, and may be able to beat the record of Stalin..

In their defense, most of them were dictators before being socialist/communist no such massacres have happened in non-totalitarian regimes, but, well, too much politics in this for the economics section, no idea sincerely why we're even discussing it here. I think the focus should be more on if and how the average Venezuelan is changing his habits and his way of life because of Bitcoin, but I doubt there is a serious impact, as I said before, in order to use money you need money, and that's what the average citizen there lacks.

[uneng]

I have no doubts bitcoin can help common citizens with their daily needs in Venezuela, but I totally disagree it can smash socialism there. In fact, crypto currencies are making the socialism maintenance in Venezuela, because a big part of the citizens' income is going to pay taxes that fund the government and all its employees, the *system*.
You know there are fast foods and probably other stores there accepting crypto as payment method without any interference from the government, what means it is not a threat to Maduro. Actually socialists have nothing to complain about bitcoin or crypto, because that is the way people are bringing money from outside to their country.

Quite possible, especially when the upper echelons in the government aren't using their very own currencies as well, so there's not much more that bitcoin can do.

I don't doubt some government's agents use bitcoin in secret to avoid the national currency devaluation and to grow their patrimonies efficiently. But anyway upper echelons are fine with or without crypto currency, as they are well paid despite inflation out of control.

I think the focus should be more on if and how the average Venezuelan is changing his habits and his way of life because of Bitcoin, but I doubt there is a serious impact, as I said before, in order to use money you need money, and that's what the average citizen there lacks.

When comparing the total population to the number of bitcoin adopters there won't be a significant number, but many citizens are being benefited indirectly, as there are charity organizations in Venezuela receiving foreigner donations in bitcoin and altcoins. And others are finding opportunities online to be paid in bitcoin, not relying on the country to earn money from.

[aesma]

The fact is that the US has never properly done its job in liberating the country.  Venezuela is also on a bad note.  It seems that crypto is the best solution in solving the economy, as long as society accepts crypto policies it will run well.  But unfortunately the government in that country also doesn't have a good GCG.  Their fate is not even clear with it all.  They need leaders who really love their country to save their people.

It's not the job of the USA to "liberate" Venezuela. What they have done is hurting not helping, they started imposing sanctions under Chavez for no good reason. At the time Venezuela was much better than say Saudi Arabia with human rights etc., yet Venezuela gets sanctions, Saudi Arabia gets weapons, that's ridiculous.

[Sithara007]

The fact is that the US has never properly done its job in liberating the country.  Venezuela is also on a bad note.  It seems that crypto is the best solution in solving the economy, as long as society accepts crypto policies it will run well.  But unfortunately the government in that country also doesn't have a good GCG.  Their fate is not even clear with it all.  They need leaders who really love their country to save their people.

It's not the job of the USA to "liberate" Venezuela. What they have done is hurting not helping, they started imposing sanctions under Chavez for no good reason. At the time Venezuela was much better than say Saudi Arabia with human rights etc., yet Venezuela gets sanctions, Saudi Arabia gets weapons, that's ridiculous.

I don't know why some of the Americans think that they can invade countries in every nook and corner of the world and replace the governments which they don't like. What if some other country decides to invade the United States, claiming that Donald Trump or Joe Biden has become too authoritarian and the people want a regime change? We have seen how this liberation has turned out in countries such as Iraq and Libya. Libya once used to be the richest country in Africa. Now it is one of the poorest, thanks to the American invasion.

[Xinarae*]

Washington was waiting for such a situation including america they tightened the latest blockade this caused great damage to venezuela's foreign trade. Foreign exchange supply further declined many skilled professionals leave the country as a result oil extraction capacity is also reduced more than half of the people are facing new poverty in the face of adverse circumstances, the decision making process of the government also becomes over centralized. A major aspect of the country's current situation is the crisis of centralized governance culture. If development is considered an alternative to democracy such a crisis may occur in other countries as well.

[Johnyz]

Washington was waiting for such a situation including america they tightened the latest blockade this caused great damage to venezuela's foreign trade. Foreign exchange supply further declined many skilled professionals leave the country as a result oil extraction capacity is also reduced more than half of the people are facing new poverty in the face of adverse circumstances, the decision making process of the government also becomes over centralized. A major aspect of the country's current situation is the crisis of centralized governance culture. If development is considered an alternative to democracy such a crisis may occur in other countries as well.

Venezuela are suffering that much because of those influential countries who keeps on putting too much pressure to them, I feel sorry to those who are suffering big time on this country. Yes, Bitcoin can be a big help but for sure if their government will totally allow Bitcoin and make it legal, other countries will threatened them and they'll ended up on losing. If there's any chance to go abroad, that's better option for them because Bitcoin can't totally help them I mean, not a 100% help not unless they've changed their government.

[Sithara007]

Washington was waiting for such a situation including america they tightened the latest blockade this caused great damage to venezuela's foreign trade. Foreign exchange supply further declined many skilled professionals leave the country as a result oil extraction capacity is also reduced more than half of the people are facing new poverty in the face of adverse circumstances, the decision making process of the government also becomes over centralized. A major aspect of the country's current situation is the crisis of centralized governance culture. If development is considered an alternative to democracy such a crisis may occur in other countries as well.

Damage done to the Venezuelan economy is mostly due to the falling crude oil price and not due to the sanctions. Obviously the embargoes and sanctions have played their part, but the economy could have survived it if the crude prices were high. But unfortunately they have a very incompetent regime in Venezuela who wasted all the coil revenues in 2009-14, when the crude was trading above $100 per barrel. Other oil producers such as Russia, Saudi Arabia and the UAE saved a part of this revenue in the form of Sovereign Wealth Funds (SWF), but the socialist regime in Venezuela never bothered to setup a SWF.

[Silberman]

It's my opinion, and you can see that in some of my comments! Venezuela is just one of the "bad" examples of what this traditional economy is doing for centuries... It's too corrupted, and believe it or not powerful countries and their big banks are pretty much responsible for all that shit around that last for too long..

Oh yeah, we're responsible for all the crap that their leaders have done so!
When they were nationalizing everything they could get their hands on and giving it away they were heroes, now when we don't want to give them more money to spend on useless garbage we're at fault! It's always somebody else to blame, not their stupid politics and of course not socialism! Blame the US, blame the banks but not the morons cheering when their own leaders were setting up programs that were going to ruin the country.

If this traditional economy is this bad why are some countries doing so good compared to Venezuela without a single drop of oil?

It is that simple, how is it possible that a country that has so much natural resources which other countries would love to have is in such a desperate position? What caused this? And the answer is socialism, no economic system that is based on stealing from others is sustainable long term, at first it may seem like it is as they gain all of the wealth of those that got their assets confiscated but once that is over then what? Who in his right mind will try to prosper when everything can be stolen? The truth is that incentives matter, and when you cannot improve your financial situation regardless of the efforts you make then the only logical answer is to stop trying and do something else with your life, and once this becomes endemic around the country there is no salvation for the economy.

[amishmanish]

My guess is that they aren't just using Bitcoin but a host of other cryptocurrencies. If there already is a "DeFi" product from the Govt, it means that Venezuelans must be quite involved. All that someone needs to get onto this bandwagon these days is a mobile phone and access to internet. It opens earning opportunities for people with requisite knowledge and communication skills.

In a country like Venezuela, having a source of non-inflationary income itself is a big benefit. While it is too early to say that this can help replace dictators, it can surely help create individuals and pockets of prosperity that can eventually stand up to the tyranny. Dictators generally thrive on a deprived populace. The fact that crypto can work without borders means that it can keep people out of poverty and allow them to think of a better future.

In the long term, IMO, It could definitely get rid of the dictatorial, irresponsible style of governance.

[Ozero]

There is no socialism in Venezuela and never has been. Now there is most likely the dictatorship of President Maduro and a tough and ongoing political struggle for power, from which the population suffers. Changing money, including the transition to the use of cryptocurrency, which has already been practiced there for a very long time, will not solve anything. It is not the effect that needs to be eliminated, but the cause. Above all, Venezuelans need professional guidance in the interests of the people. Without this, no new money will solve anything.

[Webetcoins]

My main issue is the tendency many have to attribute policy in venezuela solely to Nicolas Maduro. Circumstances in venezuela appear to be determined partly by international support venezuela receives from special interests and communist/socialist regimes like cuba and china. Donald Trump proposed forcibly removing Maduro from power when he was President 2016-2020. This proposal was met with considerable opposition from various factions. For various reasons. The USA doesn't have the best record of liberating oppressed nations from tyrannical dictators. Iraq which was "liberated" more than a decade ago may still be struggling. The united states itself expending trillions of dollars in the effort, due to its lack of planning and exit strategy.

Venezuela's situation could closely resemble nigeria's. In the future we may see nigeria's central bank roll out its own cryptocurrency identical to venezuela rolling out their ill fated petro years ago.

Well, you may be right but I am also thinking that Bitcoin wouldn’t be enough. There are about two things that we are all making use of Bitcoin for and that’s transaction and investment, I don’t really know how these two things will be helping the poor people in these countries, except maybe it’s going to make their businesses easier and allow them easy access to those in overseas.

As for investments, you’re only going to be able to be investing money when you have the money to do so. If you don’t have the money, there wouldn’t be a need to invest and make money.