Could Bitcoin Smash Socialism in Venezuela?

[macson]

snip

this is good writing, i like it.

discussing Venezuela emmm there will be no end.  The problems that stick around Venezuela are politics and corruption.  I idly typed "Venezuela's wealth potential" on google and was surprised at the results I got, Venezuela is not a poor country, actually just a corrupt country (complicated bureaucracy and corrupt government).

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/venezuela-was-once-twelve-times-richer-than-china-what-happened
https://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Americas/Venezuela-POVERTY-AND-WEALTH.html

talking about whether Bitcoin will save Venezuela, I don't think it will be if CORRUPTION is still a disease there.  In general, Bitcoin is indeed more suitable for individual or corporate investment, but if a country invests in Bitcoin it's not difficult either, it's just that any profits created are shared with citizens for education and health costs because that's the most important thing.

socialist ideology in Venezuela seems ineffective because of the corruption and low levels of human and government resources there.

[so98nn]

I think it is a choice!

If Venezuelan Government has enrolled into crypto agreement then that's their decision. When a country regulates the crypto or ban the crypto then we don't speak word about it. In fact we spread the news that, the country will now switch to p2p transactions to surpass the government bill.

In case of Venezuela it's exactly opposite. Rest of the world will see this country as perfect spot to  spend their bitcoins or other crypot's because they have legal option for it! I think it will increase the socialism through bitcoin, not decrease it!

[Smartprofit]

Want opinions & commentary on this.

Bump.

Perhaps in the future we will see that the world economy is divided into two parts. 

The first part is China and its satellites.  The second part is the United States and its allies. 

Each of these economic unions will have its own digital currency (CBDC), its own Internet, its own artificial intelligence.  Both parts of the former global world will be completely isolated from each other.  Venezuela will be China's satellite. 

Bitcoins, in my opinion, will not be able to solve the economic problems of Venezuela and Nigeria.

[DrBeer]

This is a write up by someone who doesn't understand the fact that crypto IS socialist, and it is against dictatorship, Venezuela is most definitely 100% not a socialist nation, just because they "call" it that doesn't mean that it is a socialist one. What is socialism? It is the idea that everyone should be equal right? Well if there is a dictator at the top doing whatever he wants, how come everyone could be equal?

It means any nation with even one powerful position means that it is not a socialist nation, it is very very easily refutable, soviet union? Has Lenin and Stalin, Cuba? has Castro, north Korea? Has that fat dude whatever his name. If there is one dictator that means it is not a socialist nation and just putting socialism in the title doesn't make it socialist, it can't be socialist as long as people are not 100% all equal no matter what they are. Hence stop attacking socialism, it is Madura that made Venezuela like this, not socialism.

It makes no sense to mention socialism here! Over the 20th century, this concept has been perverted and twisted beyond recognition. For socialism in the USSR and its “friends”, totalitarian or idiotic governments were always presented, where the idea of ​​“living in poverty is good”, where the ideology is based on “taking from the rich and sharing among the poor”, where “you have to wait and everything will be free”, where all other countries in the world "drink the blood of ordinary people" and "they will soon collapse." But in essence, the "socialist countries" built by the USSR are "self-isolated zoos" of poor, unfortunate people, fooled by the rulers of the tyranamani and tyrant tyrants.

[justdimin]

Socialism means taking away wealth from the successful people (the so called "rich") and distributing it among the so called "poor". All the businesses will be owned by the state and the regime will decide when you should eat, when you take a dump and when and whom you should marry. Socialism can't be implemented by democratic means and that's why we have authoritarian regimes such as the ones in Cuba and North Korea. Those who support socialism are always people who have no experience of living in a socialist country. Ask someone in Cuba or North Korea their opinion about socialism and you will be much surprised.

Well, first of all North Korea is a dictatorship, whereas Cuba is not like that, in Cuba you could take up any job you want, or you could even not work if you do not want to, the life is cheap even though not high quality, but it is nowhere near levels of North Korea, those are very very highly different levels of socialism.

Also why do people think of North Korea when they think about socialism? North Korea is nowhere near socialist at all, not even remotely close, I would understand Soviet Union which is a failed state and you could say that "socialism is bad, look at what happened to soviet union" and I would totally understand that, but North Korea? That is not even remotely close.

Plus you are mistaking communism and socialism, look at Scandinavian countries, they have mcdonalds, they have private ownership, they have capitalism, but they are social democrats as well, high taxes that help the public, why not see a good example there?

I haven't seen any capitalism that successfully helped the poor people, they help the rich for sure but they always fail and starve and kill all their poor people, look at USA, look at UK, people starve and freeze to death there, look at Norway, they do not have that. All things you have listed about socialism are fake propaganda that could be proven otherwise very very very easily.

[verita1]

Frankly, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies can stimulate Venezuela's depressed economy.
Fortunately, they have not been banned in the country and I believe that the population will have the opportunity to adapt it little by little. Because they will realize that cryptocurrencies is a valuable way out of the crisis.
The disadvantages of Venezuelans is that they have a very poor telephone and internet infrastructure due to poor government management and blockades. The country has dramatically decreased its production, both domestic and export production.
Now if cryptocurrencies come into play on a large scale this is an opportunity for Venezuelans to improve their economic situation.

Thank you, Hydrogen for being interested in the problems of Venezuela.

[DrBeer]

this is good writing, i like it.
discussing Venezuela emmm there will be no end.  The problems that stick around Venezuela are politics and corruption.  I idly typed "Venezuela's wealth potential" on google and was surprised at the results I got, Venezuela is not a poor country, actually just a corrupt country (complicated bureaucracy and corrupt government).
talking about whether Bitcoin will save Venezuela, I don't think it will be if CORRUPTION is still a disease there.  In general, Bitcoin is indeed more suitable for individual or corporate investment, but if a country invests in Bitcoin it's not difficult either, it's just that any profits created are shared with citizens for education and health costs because that's the most important thing.
socialist ideology in Venezuela seems ineffective because of the corruption and low levels of human and government resources there.

From 1950 to the early 1980s, Venezuela's economy showed steady growth. By 1982, the country remained the richest economy in Latin America. It used its enormous oil wealth to fund social programs, including health care, education, transportation, and food subsidies. The wages of workers in Venezuela were among the highest in the region. But the lack of economic diversification (oil has become almost the only global filler of the budget) and Hugo Chavez with his program of "Bolivarian socialism" put an end to the happy life of Venezuelans ...

Link below - animation of GDP changes over time and in comparison with "neighbors"
http://i1.wp.com/money.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/venezuela-vs-everyone.gif?w=1360

[SirLancelot]

It is always obvious that corruption is the root cause of whatever problems nations have and there is no denying whichever "ideology" they claim to be corruption is the real ideology of these people, from the most advanced nations to smallest nations it doesn't matter, nationalism, communism, capitalism, socialism, whatever they claim to be as long as there is corruption it will always be horrible and there is no denying that; which is why I think crypto is great since it gives you the chances to actually do whatever you want as the public and citizens can't be really stopped when they are using crypto and that is why its uncorruptable and this is the thing that dictators hate about crypto.

[StartupAnalyst]

This article says that BTC and cryptocurrencies are more stable than local Venezuela’s Bolivar. This is a huge problem of inflation of their currency. They have to provide government regulations to stop inflation or to make a reset of their money. However if he article is not fake citizens of Venezuela exploit this situation as an interesting opportunity to use crypto in everyday life. I wonder how this can help them to stop economic collapse of their country and how poor people that have no Internet access survive there.

[7788bitcoin]

This article says that BTC and cryptocurrencies are more stable than local Venezuela’s Bolivar. This is a huge problem of inflation of their currency. They have to provide government regulations to stop inflation or to make a reset of their money.

There are regulations and restrictions imposed upon Venezuela and it is hard for them to recover without these restrictions are lifted and US have frozen the assets which makes things worse for them. The people are struggling for basic things especially food and good drinking water and medications and the government is stopped the charities to help the common people and bitcoin alone cannot change anything in a situation like that.

[jaysabi]

Socialism means taking away wealth from the successful people (the so called "rich") and distributing it among the so called "poor". All the businesses will be owned by the state and the regime will decide when you should eat, when you take a dump and when and whom you should marry. Socialism can't be implemented by democratic means and that's why we have authoritarian regimes such as the ones in Cuba and North Korea. Those who support socialism are always people who have no experience of living in a socialist country. Ask someone in Cuba or North Korea their opinion about socialism and you will be much surprised.

I haven't seen any capitalism that successfully helped the poor people, they help the rich for sure but they always fail and starve and kill all their poor people, look at USA, look at UK, people starve and freeze to death there, look at Norway, they do not have that. All things you have listed about socialism are fake propaganda that could be proven otherwise very very very easily.

You're focusing on the fact that capitalism doesn't eliminate all poverty and ignoring the fact that capitalism far and away has done more to eliminate poverty than any other economic system in the history of the world. Furthermore, the Scandinavian countries you referred to have strong social safety nets that are made possible by healthy capitalist systems and high taxes.  The tax system couldn't be supported if not for the largely capitalist underpinnings of the economy.  I think the US would be better off overall under such a system, but that doesn't mean that capitalism in the US is a failure of a system.

[Del137]

Bitcon may help to solve economic problems but im not sure that it could change the whole country politics

[bitgolden]

It is great that people mock socialism while we live in a world of capitalism that failed all of us. I mean sure go ahead and do whatever you want but the governments of capitalist nations have people with 200+ billion dollar billionaires with 10+ million unemployed and yet for some reason it is socialism that managed to hurt people, and all the super smart incredibly wise people here name communist countries instead of socialist ones which is very very normal too, after all socialism equals communism right, that is a great education people got there, oh by the way of course education costs so much that people spend 20 years paying their college loans in capitalist countries, because they are free to do that!! that is awesome to be able to own 20 year loan on your education of course!...

You guys are not making any sense if you think socialism with free healthcare, free education and basically higher life quality with nearly same amount of taxes is bad.

[bryant.coleman]

It is great that people mock socialism while we live in a world of capitalism that failed all of us. I mean sure go ahead and do whatever you want but the governments of capitalist nations have people with 200+ billion dollar billionaires with 10+ million unemployed and yet for some reason it is socialism that managed to hurt people, and all the super smart incredibly wise people here name communist countries instead of socialist ones which is very very normal too, after all socialism equals communism right, that is a great education people got there, oh by the way of course education costs so much that people spend 20 years paying their college loans in capitalist countries, because they are free to do that!! that is awesome to be able to own 20 year loan on your education of course!...

You guys are not making any sense if you think socialism with free healthcare, free education and basically higher life quality with nearly same amount of taxes is bad.

LOL.. this dude is really funny. Capitalism has failed us? I don't think so. Most of the capitalist countries have seen poverty levels drastically reduced during the last few decades. Unemployment and poverty is still there in capitalist countries, but compared to what they had a few decades back the improvement is quite noticeable. On the other hand, check the current status of Socialist utopias, such as Cuba, Venezuela and the former USSR. If you love socialism so much, then please migrate to one of these countries and leave us in peace.

[DrBeer]

It is great that people mock socialism while we live in a world of capitalism that failed all of us. I mean sure go ahead and do whatever you want but the governments of capitalist nations have people with 200+ billion dollar billionaires with 10+ million unemployed and yet for some reason it is socialism that managed to hurt people, and all the super smart incredibly wise people here name communist countries instead of socialist ones which is very very normal too, after all socialism equals communism right, that is a great education people got there, oh by the way of course education costs so much that people spend 20 years paying their college loans in capitalist countries, because they are free to do that!! that is awesome to be able to own 20 year loan on your education of course!...

You guys are not making any sense if you think socialism with free healthcare, free education and basically higher life quality with nearly same amount of taxes is bad.

I will assume that we lived in the same country for a while
Let me explain the essence of the "rejection of socialism." Nobody here says that socialism is evil, it is about the fact that in the Soviet Union, and in many countries where "socialism" he built, the idea of ​​socialism was perverted and was used only as slogans and "promises". In fact, the USSR and its henchmen, instead of socialism, built totalitarian regimes. And fairy tales about free medicine, education and so on are nonsense. You know very well that people in the USSR worked like slaves for a penny, and the state stole up to 90% of the income all their lives. And in exchange for such "taxation" they gave ostensibly "free" social "sweets" - poor medicine, primitive education, and also brought up the people who said one thing, did another, always tried to "grab off" Finnish boots or French spirits by pull, and all his life he lived in poverty. What is very important - there was also limited free movement, a simple tourist trip to another country was unlikely for 99% of the population. Perhaps to the socialist countries, and then it was necessary to "earn" permission. And the trip to Western countries was a fantasy ... Well, it was impossible to release a slave so that he would know that Soviet propaganda is primitively lying about how the Western world is "rotting". Do you remember how at the "political information" at school, in elementary grades, we were told every time about the fabulous successes of the USSR and certainly about how "the USA will fall apart tomorrow"?
"Living well is bad" - this is the main idea of ​​"Soviet socialism"! Why do you ask? And then - when a person only thinks about how to survive and where to "get" a stick of cervelat for the new year (I am sure the inhabitants of normal countries will not even understand what this proposal is about) - he will not have time for systemic lies and bestial attitude towards him ... becomes disenfranchised and limited cattle. This is the kind of society that was built in the USSR ... It's true, unpleasant, but the TRUTH.

[RealMalatesta]

I haven't seen any capitalism that successfully helped the poor people, they help the rich for sure but they always fail and starve and kill all their poor people, look at USA, look at UK, people starve and freeze to death there, look at Norway, they do not have that. All things you have listed about socialism are fake propaganda that could be proven otherwise very very very easily.

You're focusing on the fact that capitalism doesn't eliminate all poverty and ignoring the fact that capitalism far and away has done more to eliminate poverty than any other economic system in the history of the world. Furthermore, the Scandinavian countries you referred to have strong social safety nets that are made possible by healthy capitalist systems and high taxes.  The tax system couldn't be supported if not for the largely capitalist underpinnings of the economy.  I think the US would be better off overall under such a system, but that doesn't mean that capitalism in the US is a failure of a system.

That is what I am saying as well, we can't eliminate capitalism but we can eliminate free market unchecked capitalism, we can't have highly equalizing communist regime neither, they are all horrible. What I am trying to say is that if you can find something in between that would be great.

USA has people with 100+ billion dollars networth, and have so many rich people whereas there are people dying because they can't afford their insulin, is that acceptable? Does that make sense? That is capitalism too, and yes Sweden is capitalism too, can you see their difference? What we need is neither capitalism at the level of USA nor communism at china, we need Sweden type of regulated and highly taxed capitalism to make it work.

I personally do feel like we still have a chance to make that kind of world possible but we need non-corruptable politicians which doesn't really exist in most nations.

[stompix]

There are so many things wrong with your post I don't know where to start and which one of them is the worst of them.

Well, first of all North Korea is a dictatorship, whereas Cuba is not like that, in Cuba you could take up any job you want, or you could even not work if you do not want to, the life is cheap even though not high quality, but it is nowhere near levels of North Korea, those are very very highly different levels of socialism.

Cuba was a dictatorship, and no, in no country, even in a total authoritarian regime or in how you describe it communist rule you're not allocated your job and you can still decide what job you want to pursue. But, you're mixing the planning of the economy with the rules on this one.

Also why do people think of North Korea when they think about socialism? North Korea is nowhere near socialist at all, not even remotely close, I would understand Soviet Union which is a failed state and you could say that "socialism is bad, look at what happened to soviet union" and I would totally understand that, but North Korea? That is not even remotely close.

Because North Korea is a socialist country, a planned economy run by the state, it doesn't matter who the lear is and what type of government is in the country. For example, Qatar is a monarchy where the king has absolute power, pretty close to a true dictatorship but that doesn't make it even remotely socialist or capitalist as those are being defined mostly on the economy runs. And everything in NK runs by the socialist manual.

Socialism, the main alternative economic system that has emerged in modern times, requires that the means of production, distribution, and exchange be owned and regulated by the community as a whole. A prominent characteristic of the socialist economy is that the goods and services are produced based on usage value. This usage value is subject to the needs of the society, hence preventing underproduction and overproduction.

Perfect description of North Korea.

Plus you are mistaking communism and socialism, look at Scandinavian countries, they have mcdonalds, they have private ownership, they have capitalism, but they are social democrats as well, high taxes that help the public, why not see a good example there?

Well, sorry to burst your bubble but you should listen to the people running those countries before you assume they are socialist:
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist/

“I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

All things you have listed about socialism are fake propaganda that could be proven otherwise very very very easily.

Of course comrade, of course, it's all fake propaganda. Now, how about you go to Venezuela and breathe o full load of rich and healthy socialist air?
Oh, and I'm talking about air since that's what they can afford currently.

[bryant.coleman]

Almost the same mate, Venezuela is already known as a fragile enocomic country in the world. Their had natural resources like Oil but they couldn't use it in a proper way so that their economy became destructive. In this time, crypto can help them to store their money by them where government can't do anything. The country is still struggling with their fragile economy.

The country doesn't have enough forex reserves at hand to keep the national currency from falling. To make matters worse, their gold reserves (which were stored in London) got confiscated by the British government. So they lost whatever little gold reserves they were actually having. The government tried to pass the burden towards the citizens. They kept the exchange rates at artificially low levels, which is much different from the black market rates. Now the citizens don't have any option other than to use assets such as Bitcoin and gold to protect their wealth. Gold is also not preferred, because the chances of confiscation by the authorities is there.

[aesma]

Capitalism, communism and socialism are "ideal" concepts (well socialism is supposed to lead to communism), that have not, and cannot, be applied in practice.

In practice we have various degrees of the three. For example in the US, 10 people can band together and create (or buy) a company and work in that company and earn their living that way. Workers owning their company, how communist !

What some here have talked about to defend socialism (and sometimes with political parties called "socialist party" so the confusion is easy) is in fact social-democracy. Social-democracy has elements of socialism, usually good public services, socialized medicine, education, etc.. But most of the economy is still in private hands, and thus capitalist. It's a good equilibrium of both.

Venezuela didn't try to go "full socialism", nationalizing oil companies for example isn't an issue in itself, if you consider how that resource is important for the country. However, it should have been managed well, and it wasn't. There are still rich people in Venezuela, and I'm not just talking about Maduro and his cronies, so clearly, Venezuela is no Soviet Union.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Venezuela didn't try to go "full socialism", nationalizing oil companies for example isn't an issue in itself, if you consider how that resource is important for the country. However, it should have been managed well, and it wasn't. There are still rich people in Venezuela, and I'm not just talking about Maduro and his cronies, so clearly, Venezuela is no Soviet Union.

Earlier the petroleum resources in Venezuela were managed by the western companies. They had the technical knowledge to operate these resources in an efficient manner and within their circle there was no issue of corruption or nepotism. What the socialist government of Chavez did was to confiscate these resources without paying any compensation to the corporations which developed them. All the time, effort and technical knowledge that these companies spent on developing the oil resources of Venezuela went unrewarded.

The second issue is that after nationalization, the oil and natural gas resources were acquired by Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). The PDVSA is full of political cronies who don't have enough expertise and it was no surprise that they couldn't manage these resources in an efficient manner. On top of inefficiency, the addition of corruption and nepotism made matters worse.