franky1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4312
Merit: 4633
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 07:14:43 AM |
|
seems there are many covid deniers in this topic
what these deniers seem to keep spouting is that they dont realise basic facts. they have binary brains thinking covid has 2 options no smell vs death
they dont understand that there actually is a scale even for those not hospitalised its like loss of tastes/smell cough loss of appetite fever/chills fatigue insomnia breathlessness abdominal pains etc
where symptoms not only scale from 0-10 but also where the length of symptoms go from 1day-12 weeks yep even people that dont need hospital care get #long covid' 30% of those getting the top 6 symptoms have them in varying amounts for months
there is no 65yo cut off line of the binary ignorance of fine or dead there is actually a scale of illness going from such minor issues they dont notice. to issues that are just annoying but concerning. to issues that interrupt peoples normal day (tired but cant sleep) to issues where they have to just rest up in bed because they just so warn out day and night and thats before even getting to the severity of needing hospitalisation
an yes im calling BS to the guy saying he had tons of friends with only loss of taste/smell or no symptoms and thats because most people wont waste time in their day getting tested for no reason. they would have by just normal common sense and psychology only want to take time out of their day to book a test and travel to get a test if they are concerned about their symptoms because their symptoms are not only noticeable. but concerning enough to make them want to know if its covid or not
so if the guy above is thinking loads of his co-horts were not worried/concerned/suffering at all.. then they would not have got tested. i cant see any common sense where people would bother getting tested just for giggles and boredom
.. but the funny part is that the guy is also a mask denier even though surgical masks are worn by.. surgeons.. yep they are affective.
i would say home proper N95 are the better ones to wear. but not as cheap. surgical masks are cheaper. and fabric home made coverings are cheaper. its also a scale of protection from 95% N95 80% surgical masks 40% face covering
where a combination of surgical and face covering is more than 80% but yea the mask denier is still binary mindset thinking only in yes or no option of does it work. not accepting that the real world is actually not binary.
|
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
|
|
|
Cnut237
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 07:52:58 AM |
|
Only vulnerable people should get the vaccine.. All of us healthy people should just eventually catch Covid and gain immunity the natural way..
But if you are young and healthy and catch Covid, and only have mild symptoms, you still spread the virus around, and potentially infect vulnerable people. If you take the vaccine you protect others. stupid masks.. They don’t do shit!! You don’t even really breathe THROUGH them..
Maybe they slightly reduce the spread of YOUR breath outwards, BUT THAT IS ALL!!
Same with this I suppose. The masks aren't perfect, but their main purpose is to stop the virus getting out through the mask to other people, rather than to stop it getting in. Masks are more about protecting others than about protecting yourself. Yes, I agree they're by no means 100% effective - but any protection, even partial, is better than none. if you get vaccinated, you don't have to worry about me getting vaccinated or not. Anti-vaxxers is a word you have pulled out of your sleeve to disqualify without arguments. I am pro-vaccine, but I am against being forced to take this one.
You're right, I shouldn't group together everyone who doesn't want the vaccine. But regarding the point that 'if you get vaccinated, you don't have to worry about me getting vaccinated'... yes, I personally don't have to worry, but you can still infect others who haven't been vaccinated. no politician has wanted to impose quarantines and lockdowns only on the elderly because they knew they had a lot of votes to lose.
Finally, I totally agree with this. Almost all of the blame for the current situation lies with politicians not wanting to be unpopular. If every government around the world had implemented immediate 2-week quarantining of people entering the country, and had done so as soon as it became apparent that China had a problem in January 2020... then the result would have been no pandemic, no lockdowns within countries, no masks, etc. But governments aren't like that. They don't take action to prevent a problem, instead they wait until something becomes a problem, wait a bit longer until it becomes a really big problem, then finally, much too late, decide to try to do something about it.
|
|
|
|
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18696
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 08:06:33 AM |
|
You can have rational doubts about vaccines, and believe that, for a healthy person, it is better not to take them Healthy != immortal. Healthy people are dying from COVID. What I don't understand either is how there are people who, when there are so many billions of $ at stake, blindly trust the pharmaceutical companies. I don't blindly trust anyone. I read the trials. This is the exact opposite. People on here who say "Listen to what this expert says" - that is asking you to blindly trust the opinion of one person. Reading a trial with millions of participants is not blindly trusting anything. It is verifying. Fucking vaccine has worse side effects than Covid!! It absolutely does not. I know a TON of people that have tested positive for Covid.. And I've told the families of healthy people in their 20s and 30s over the phone that their loved one is going to die and they are not allowed to visit. Small individual samples are not indicative of the wider situation. And you want to inject me with something that will change my DNA? The vaccine does not change your DNA. There is no way it even could change your DNA without rewriting everything we know about cell biology. If you get the vaccine the. You don’t have to be afraid of my unvaccinated ass standing right next to you with no mask.. Nothing in life is ever going to be 100%, vaccines included, so every unvaccinated person does indeed pose a risk. Maybe they slightly reduce the spread of YOUR breath outwards, BUT THAT IS ALL!! That is the whole point. A simple face mask is not designed to protect the wearer, but to protect others.
|
|
|
|
Toplistico.com
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 209
Merit: 3
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 08:12:57 AM |
|
In my country, you can refuse to be vaccinated, but you have to report that you refuse to be vaccinated to the relevant parties. They will register your name and later your name will be recorded. And then when you enter an area, related parties can refuse you to enter or not. So many people are forced to want to be vaccinated, so they can go anywhere.
|
|
|
|
mindrust (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3346
Merit: 2494
Payment Gateway Allows Recurring Payments
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 08:15:18 AM |
|
In my country, you can refuse to be vaccinated, but you have to report that you refuse to be vaccinated to the relevant parties. They will register your name and later your name will be recorded. And then when you enter an area, related parties can refuse you to enter or not. So many people are forced to want to be vaccinated, so they can go anywhere.
What country is that? Sounds like a nazi regime. I thought having a mask on was enough to visit places...
|
|
|
|
tvbcof
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4662
Merit: 1276
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 09:15:05 AM |
|
And you want to inject me with something that will change my DNA?
The vaccine does not change your DNA. There is no way it even could change your DNA without rewriting everything we know about cell biology. Let's forget for a moment that there is no operational difference between a designer gene spliced into the victim's chromosomal DNA or transcribing off a nuclear plasmid and both could legitimately be described as "changing your DNA"... One of the arguments the mRNA folks (BioNTech, Moderna) use for their technology is that, compared to the DNA technology (AstraZeneca, J&J, etc), their mRNA technology reduces the chances of the plasmidal DNA inserts into the cell nucleus accidentally integrating with the chromosomal DNA. (Students of science will understand that such 'accidents' are pretty much they way we humans got here in our current form...for better or worse.) So, you either have to claim that the mRNA folks are making up tall tales in order to sell their wares, or that the possibility exists for genuine chromosomal integration happening with the DNA vaccines in at least some accidental circumstances. It's pretty much one or the other, and if it's the former, it is worth asking what else the mRNA folks might be lying about in order to make sales.
|
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
|
|
|
franky1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4312
Merit: 4633
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 07:45:04 PM |
|
its like tvbcof just learned the word plasmid 2 week ago and is on a spree of spamming the word to make it seem like he knows what it is
if he knew the differences. and new about things like the pores of the nucleus cell wall. also also learned about the differences in length of the vaccines code vs DNA code
if he could do the research that puts all that detail together he would then know that the vaccine DNA doesnt have the function codes that allow it to change dna nor replicate.
and finally he would stop flip flopping spending weeks arguing that he never claimed the vaccines change dna but then today flop back to his narrative insinuating it does
tvbcof please DO YOUR RESEARCH
recognise the vaccine code does not contain the ability to change DNA. doesnt have the length to replace dna. . is not even a full length dna. and at the processes between the cell entry to the nucleus the strands break down to fit through the nucleus pores
now please go learn the vaccine is not the lengthy processes of crispr bundled up in a vaccine capsid
|
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
|
|
|
franky1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4312
Merit: 4633
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 07:58:55 PM |
|
anyway. to summarise the topic
there will be no ID2020 you can go shopping and move around without any 'passport'
if you want to go to any larch audience event like watching sports or music concerts you have 3 options 1. not currently have covid 2. already had covid and recovered 3. have had vaccine
its not a single option. there is no force. no military will handcuff or shoot you. no ones going to swat your house.
in short calm the hell down.
|
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
|
|
|
Poker Player
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1470
Merit: 2130
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 08:01:47 PM |
|
You can have rational doubts about vaccines, and believe that, for a healthy person, it is better not to take them Healthy != immortal. Healthy people are dying from COVID. No they aren't. The probability of a healthy person dying from COVID is so low as to be statistically insignificant. Later you even say yourself: Small individual samples are not indicative of the wider situation.
You saying that healthy people are dying from COVID sounds to me the same as Jet Cash saying that people are dying everywhere in the short term from getting the vaccine. In reality, you are not so different, even if the discourse you defend is the opposite. What I don't understand either is how there are people who, when there are so many billions of $ at stake, blindly trust the pharmaceutical companies. I don't blindly trust anyone. I read the trials. This is the exact opposite. People on here who say "Listen to what this expert says" - that is asking you to blindly trust the opinion of one person. Reading a trial with millions of participants is not blindly trusting anything. It is verifying. I am still waiting for your reply from when I cited a study of 10 million people done in Wuhan, China. Is a study of 10 million people in the place where the epidemic originated scientific enough for you? Here I quote it back to you, I've been waiting almost two months for a response: This is the second time I have seen you say this and it is simply not true. COVID reinfection happens.
In a study about 10 million residents in Wuhan, China, published in Nature, only 0.3% were reinfected. "Of the 34,424 participants with a history of COVID-19, 107 tested positive again, giving a repositive rate of 0.310%" [..] "Results of virus culturing and contract tracing found no evidence that repositive cases in recovered COVID-19 patients were infectious, which is consistent with evidence from other sources." Source: Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China.Reinfection doesn't seem so dangerous to me according to this source.
|
|
|
|
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18696
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 08:18:17 PM |
|
No they aren't. The probability of a healthy person dying from COVID is so low as to be statistically insignificant. US stats: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities6% of deaths had no underlying health conditions. UK stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithandwithoutpreexistingconditions8.9% of deaths had no underlying health conditions. I am still waiting for your reply from when I cited a study of 10 million people done in Wuhan, China. Is a study of 10 million people in the place where the epidemic originated scientific enough for you? Here I quote it back to you, I've been waiting almost two months for a response: Because the study you quoted proves my point. Jet Cash said "Natural immunity has 100% success". I said "COVID reinfections do happen". You then linked a study which shows reinfections happening. Not sure what I'm supposed to respond to. It's a small number, yes, but reinfections do happen.
|
|
|
|
|
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18696
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 01, 2021, 09:05:20 PM Last edit: March 01, 2021, 09:19:16 PM by o_e_l_e_o |
|
So you mean that those 6% (or 9%) were older than 60 in 99,9% of the cases and older than 80 also in the vast majority of cases. So those are the healthy persons dying from COVID. Healthy 80-something year-olds. Please stop just making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. US stats: Among decedents aged <65 years, 83.1% had one or more underlying medical conditions. 17% of those who died aged under 65 had no underlying health conditions. UK stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyingconditionsbyagebandAttention drawn to table 6a. Of 542 deaths in age range 0-44, 101 (18.6%) had no underlying health conditions. Of 457 deaths in age range 45-49, 91 (19.9%) had no underlying health conditions. Of 847 deaths in age range 50-54, 123 (14.5%) had no underlying health conditions. Yes, older people and those with comorbidities have a higher risk of death from COVID (and I never claimed otherwise), but young people are dying, healthy people are dying, and young healthy people are dying.
|
|
|
|
Cnut237
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277
|
The truth is that COVID mortality is no much different than flu mortality
We've had this argument quite a lot over the last year. My answer has always been: don't look at reason for death, look at number of deaths from any reason. Something has been killing huge numbers of people over the last year, way more than normal... and this just happens to coincide with the Covid pandemic. There hasn't been a flu-or-anything-else pandemic. Look, for example, at the UK in April 2020, peak of the first wave of Covid... deaths more than 100% above the 2015-2019 average. The pattern is stark, the evidence conclusive. https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
|
|
|
|
eddie13
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2262
BTC or BUST
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 02, 2021, 05:02:59 PM |
|
I don’t trust any of those statistics from those who want us locked down..
Either way, I’m not goi g to hide in my house for the rest of my life or wear a mask for the rest of my life.. I don’t care if it kills a billion people.. Maybe it will kill me..
Sure diaper masks help “some”.. But if they really wanted to stop it they would be saying to use masks that seriously work.. It’s a scam..
Look at all this propaganda about wearing 2 and even 3 diaper masks at the same time!! Insane!
A half face with p-100s is more comfortable and DOESNT FOG UP YOUR GLASSES!!
You know why diaper masks dog up your glasses? BECAUSE YOU BREATHE AROUND THEM NOT THROUGH THEM..
It’s a scam and all the NPCs are fooled..
|
Chancellor on Brink of Second Bailout for Banks
|
|
|
Poker Player
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1470
Merit: 2130
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 02, 2021, 06:37:57 PM Last edit: March 02, 2021, 07:18:04 PM by Poker Player |
|
So you mean that those 6% (or 9%) were older than 60 in 99,9% of the cases and older than 80 also in the vast majority of cases. So those are the healthy persons dying from COVID. Healthy 80-something year-olds. Please stop just making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. I don't know how you have the gall to say that when you are blatantly making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. You're presenting isolated statistics that don't prove anything. That I have not presented evidence? I have presented you with WHO articles, articles published in Nature, in the BMJ. You are the one who only attends to isolated data so that they reinforce what you previously want them to demonstrate. US stats: Among decedents aged <65 years, 83.1% had one or more underlying medical conditions. 17% of those who died aged under 65 had no underlying health conditions. UK stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyingconditionsbyagebandAttention drawn to table 6a. Of 542 deaths in age range 0-44, 101 (18.6%) had no underlying health conditions. Of 457 deaths in age range 45-49, 91 (19.9%) had no underlying health conditions. Of 847 deaths in age range 50-54, 123 (14.5%) had no underlying health conditions. Yes, older people and those with comorbidities have a higher risk of death from COVID (and I never claimed otherwise), but young people are dying, healthy people are dying, and young healthy people are dying. And you keep going on and on with the bullshit of spouting isolated statistics here to supposedly prove the things you'd like to be true. Well, they aren't. That is, of the people who have less than a 1% chance of dying, of those 15 to 20% supposedly have no underlying health conditions. So statistically, that's fucking shit close to 0 no matter how you look at it. I don’t trust any of those statistics from those who want us locked down..
For me this is not a matter of trust. Lies dammed lies and statistics. The links he is putting are isolated statistics that don't mean anything. We've had this argument quite a lot over the last year.
My answer has always been: don't look at reason for death, look at number of deaths from any reason.
You haven't read the article published in the World Health Organisation that I've put before. I'll put it again: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdfIt basically says that mortality from COVID is not much different than mortality from the flu. That peak is because anyone who died was labeled as the cause of death: "COVID". There was a video around of the Irish parliament where an MP was questioning someone from Health and one by one he picked apart how alleged COVID deaths were labeled. Basically if you are 95 years old, have terminal cancer, die and test positive for COVID they put the cause of death as COVID. Edit: It's taken me some time to find it, but I've finally found it. Otherwise some people were going to say that I was making this up: https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/3840557722640402This is his Facebook page the MPs Facebook page.
|
|
|
|
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18696
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 02, 2021, 08:50:51 PM |
|
I don't know how you have the gall to say that when you are blatantly making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. You're presenting isolated statistics that don't prove anything. The statistics prove exactly what they set out to prove. If you don't agree with them, then present some evidence to the contrary. That I have not presented evidence? I have presented you with WHO articles, articles published in Nature, in the BMJ. The article you have linked says COVID has a death rate of 0.27% on average, which works out as 270 per 100,000. The CDC puts the mortality rate for flu at 1.8 per 100,000, while the KFF puts it at 2.8. Using that paper to draw the conclusion that "mortality from COVID is not much different than mortality from the flu" is incorrect. A study of 135,000 patients: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30527-0/fulltextIn-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza ([16·9%] vs [5·8%])
|
|
|
|
Natsuu
Full Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 158
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 03, 2021, 04:01:20 PM |
|
I don’t trust any of those statistics from those who want us locked down..
Either way, I’m not goi g to hide in my house for the rest of my life or wear a mask for the rest of my life.. I don’t care if it kills a billion people.. Maybe it will kill me..
Sure diaper masks help “some”.. But if they really wanted to stop it they would be saying to use masks that seriously work.. It’s a scam..
Look at all this propaganda about wearing 2 and even 3 diaper masks at the same time!! Insane!
A half face with p-100s is more comfortable and DOESNT FOG UP YOUR GLASSES!!
You know why diaper masks dog up your glasses? BECAUSE YOU BREATHE AROUND THEM NOT THROUGH THEM..
It’s a scam and all the NPCs are fooled..
Are you crying or something, cause it looks like you're. There many different articles proving same point about how masks works and how it prevents not entirely 100% but it prevents spreads of covid. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-preventThe above link shows, different studies about how mask became effective in this time of needs. It cited different research and studies on how works. It's just one website yet it provide different article for your own convenience, and you only just needs to read. Wearing 2 to 3 masks? you really believed that?
|
|
|
|
Poker Player
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1470
Merit: 2130
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 03, 2021, 04:28:29 PM |
|
-snip
Blah blah blah blah, you can keep spouting all the crap you want out of your mouth, you're not the one who's going to say whether what I post proves or fails to prove. The people who read it see it with their own eyes. You keep misrepresenting data by putting up biased statistics and I'm not going to waste my time discussing them point by point because as soon as I refute a biased argument you present me with another bullshit isolated statistic or another biased argument and this is going to be a never-ending story. And yes, I have presented ample evidence and you have presented biased bullshit evidence that proves nothing.
|
|
|
|
Mauser
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 03, 2021, 06:08:36 PM |
|
I don't know how you have the gall to say that when you are blatantly making up things you want to be true without presenting any evidence. You're presenting isolated statistics that don't prove anything. The statistics prove exactly what they set out to prove. If you don't agree with them, then present some evidence to the contrary. That I have not presented evidence? I have presented you with WHO articles, articles published in Nature, in the BMJ. The article you have linked says COVID has a death rate of 0.27% on average, which works out as 270 per 100,000. The CDC puts the mortality rate for flu at 1.8 per 100,000, while the KFF puts it at 2.8. Using that paper to draw the conclusion that "mortality from COVID is not much different than mortality from the flu" is incorrect. A study of 135,000 patients: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30527-0/fulltextIn-hospital mortality was higher in patients with COVID-19 than in patients with influenza ([16·9%] vs [5·8%]) The death rate of 0.27% looks very low in my opinion. Globally we have 115m COVID cases with roughly 2.55m deaths. So the death rate seems to be more around 1.6%. It is probably hard to attribute the deaths of COVID directly to the illness and not some other diseases. Another thing is that we already have a lot of elderly people vaccinated now, so the death rate shoulld be dropping in the near future. I would expect we will see more COVID cases in the next few months because the younger generations are not yet vaccinated and a dropping death rate.
|
|
|
|
franky1
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4312
Merit: 4633
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
March 03, 2021, 08:34:57 PM |
|
The death rate of 0.27% looks very low in my opinion.
thats the median level where most of the studies were done on area's with low infection the actual number was 1.54% in area's where study picked dense population with a 54% infection rate EG 0 infection 0 death (obviously) 54% infection 1.54% death median = 0.27 but that median becomes meaningless when you actually look at the studies individually you can fake a number lower by using more studies of low infection.
|
I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
|
|
|
|