Why bitcoin mixers are only for criminals

[?QuestionMark?]

Bitcoin mixers and coin mixers in general are only designed for criminals and are only used for criminals.

It's very sad that this forum allows ads from coin mixers. People representing them in their signatures are also supporting criminals.
-snip-

It's very sad that you did not understand the actual purpose of Bitcoin mixers. Real criminals do not need mixers which, by the way, are not that anonymous as you think. Their outcome can often be calculated if you invest some time and energy. They rather use privacy coins.

I think they actually understand pretty well and are simply making dishonest arguments to stir the pot.  It helps if you try to view the intent behind this topic through the eyes of someone who is trying to spread faketoshi CSW propaganda.  It's the only way this thread makes sense.  The OP is just a BSV fanboy who believes regulation at protocol level is the way forward.  Obviously they're not going to find much success with that ideology around here.  Pay them no mind.

I'm not agreeing on any point which people posted here, so I'm still believing in my own opinion . Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. The same with privacy coins.

I'm also not an BSV fanboy. Yes I believe that CSW is satoshi and I also know that many things that he says are right but that's it. I have no relationship with BSV nor I had.

The reason you all don't accept it is simply because it destroys your fake reality that satoshi is some underground anarchistic hacker dodging bullets like neo in the matrix.
And as we know, people do everything to defend their reality

People still think when googling "hacker" that satoshi looks like that.

[1714676320]

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[1714676320]

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[Mugtaiya]

We are all satoshi.

When you have used bitcoin or the blockchain (which ever one that maybe) for that matter,
you have used satoshi's technology therefor you are satoshi in a way.
This was their insight on creating the blockchain, in the first place:
So to free those from their current financial system.

[20kevin20]

Its a peer-to-peer digital cash system.

...that you can use in a peer-to-peer manner as well, without having to interact with a third-party. Craigslist exists and that's a proof face-to-face txs aren't "a mistake". The difference is, after you meet someone f2f and they hand you a $100 bill, you cannot check its entire history from the moment it's been printed. This is where mixers come in as handy.

What is your position about cash? Do you like it, or would you rather be a bank's slave and declare where your money comes from, where it goes and what kind of toilet paper you like?

Then proof the exchange that the coins your owning are not from criminal origin and your good to go.

Why accuse me of crimes when I ain't a criminal? Why should I prove something you suppose is coming from an illicit source? Why do you even care as a company about my finance?

And then, there are companies abusing KYC to steal. Freewallet does that. And Bittrex. And many more.

[DooMAD]

Yes I believe that CSW is satoshi

Then you're supporting a criminal.

The reason you all don't accept it is simply because it destroys your fake reality

Says the person who keeps repeating "BTC is not Bitcoin".   

You're the one in denial because you've drunk the faketoshi kool-aid and can no longer see the facts as they are.  BTC is Bitcoin and CSW is a lying, manipulative con-man.

[Lordhermes]

I'm not agreeing on any point which people posted here, so I'm still believing in my own opinion . Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. The same with privacy coins.

Hey dude, you still saying this craps, haven't you seen the business title chipmixer displays on their signature page" Mixing reinvented for your privacy" NOT Mixing reinvented for your criminal act" your common sense should correct you than some sort of endless argument of yours.

Beside privacy is privacy, hiding because of criminal behavior is privacy, unwanting to undergo transparency is privacy, understand this.

[Hamphser]

I'm not agreeing on any point which people posted here, so I'm still believing in my own opinion . Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. The same with privacy coins.

Hey dude, you still saying this craps, haven't you seen the business title chipmixer displays on their signature page" Mixing reinvented for your privacy" NOT Mixing reinvented for your criminal act" your common sense should correct you than some sort of endless argument of yours.

Beside privacy is privacy, hiding because of criminal behavior is privacy, unwanting to undergo transparency is privacy, understand this.

Assumptions like this or simply impressions are really common because there are people who are really that too investigative that kind of behavior when it came to things and once they do find out

some hole then they do really make it out as an issue without even thinking first on how relevant this service platforms existence into this market.We cant deny though the probability of being

used towards criminal acts but doesnt really mean that it would really be treated as a whole bad thing when it did commit one of its possible characteristics when it comes to privacy matters.

[kawetsriyanto]

We are all satoshi.

What do you mean? Even if we use what Satoshi ever created, it doesn't mean we deserve to call as Satoshi. Also, remember that what we are doing now isn't the same as what Satoshi ever did in the last. There are many differences between us and Satoshi, so it is better to not saying "we are all satoshi". I think it is not a proper word to say. 

So to free those from their current financial system.

Satoshi tried to create an alternative that avoids the third parties in transactions. So, we can transfer currency without an expensive fee and easy to do since no need for others. But I guess Satoshi never stated to quit the current financial system. I still didn't see the statement of Satoshi that called people to quit or free from the current financial system. CMIIW

[?QuestionMark?]

We are all satoshi.

When you have used bitcoin or the blockchain (which ever one that maybe) for that matter,
you have used satoshi's technology therefor you are satoshi in a way.
This was their insight on creating the blockchain, in the first place:
So to free those from their current financial system.

You are not Satoshi Nakamoto. You are also not Steve Jobs just because you're using an apple product. Your into some kind of cult?

[?QuestionMark?]

I'm not agreeing on any point which people posted here, so I'm still believing in my own opinion . Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. The same with privacy coins.

Hey dude, you still saying this craps, haven't you seen the business title chipmixer displays on their signature page" Mixing reinvented for your privacy" NOT Mixing reinvented for your criminal act" your common sense should correct you than some sort of endless argument of yours.

Beside privacy is privacy, hiding because of criminal behavior is privacy, unwanting to undergo transparency is privacy, understand this.

Are you so naive? Of course they don't say it directly that its for criminal. Financial scammers also don't say in their fake ads that's its a pyramid scheme and the only one who's going to make money are themself. 
You probably would still believe smoking is healthy just because you see an ad with someone saying so.

[wxa7115]

Coin mixers being able to operate publicly is a sign that the Bitcoin economy has a way to go to see legitimacy. Of course coin mixers assist scammers as their purpose is literally to launder money. I’m sure at some point these operations will be shut down, have their funds confiscated, and likely their owners jailed.

If mixers were to go public and shut down their operations on scammers/illegal entities then it will defeat the purpose in the first place, I don't see the point that people are trying to defend mixers because it is true that they are used for such illegal activities, denying it would be looking the other way. I support the privacy of each individual but if that privacy is being used as an excuse to commit crimes, I think that I wouldn't mind having my privacy taken away, better that there are less crimes.

No one is denying that bitcoin mixers are being used by criminals what we are denying is that only criminals are using bitcoin mixers, big difference, many people use them just to protect their privacy, it seems that you are fine with your privacy being taken away by governments and private institutions, and if that is the case that is fine, but that is you, you cannot expect the rest of the people to agree with your vision.

This means that for the people that want to retain their privacy even if they are doing nothing wrong there should be a way for them to keep it and that is exactly what bitcoin mixers do, they give the option to those that want to retain their privacy to take it, if you don't want to you don't have to take it but you cannot expect everyone to agree with the way to think.

[?QuestionMark?]

Yes I believe that CSW is satoshi

Then you're supporting a criminal.

He hasn't done anything criminal so hes not a criminal.

The reason you all don't accept it is simply because it destroys your fake reality

Says the person who keeps repeating "BTC is not Bitcoin".  

What does one have to do with the other?

You're the one in denial because you've drunk the faketoshi kool-aid and can no longer see the facts as they are.  BTC is Bitcoin and CSW is a lying, manipulative con-man.

BTC is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin as we knew it, has been compromised by a company, banks and devs who don't even understand what bitcoin really is. Including you and the 99% of the BTC community.

If you think a 1MB block blockchain, which is kept slow and bad on purpose,  with transaction fees up to 25 dollars (since many months) and the possibility to RBF, is a peer-to-peer digital cash system and bitcoin, then your completely lost.

You can't use BTC for anything right now. People into bitcoin around the globe believe in this crap that bitcoin is now some store of value or digital gold due to the worldwide fake news progoganda. That's not how bitcoin is designed to be.

BTC is now for billionaires, speculators and 40yo moms who heard about it, want to buy it, but still think you need to register to use BTC.

You probably even support lightning network from blockstream which just enriches them and big financial institutions and banks because you will need a financial license to run a payment hub. Lightning network is not P2P.  
You BTC guys think your some kind of rebel but you will end up by using a system controlled by companies like VISA and Mastercard if lightning should succeed. Well done haha.  
Bu the lightning network won't have success. Its so bad and small that right now regulators don't even care about  .

What we need are instant transactions (no RBF) and miners who mine terabyte blocks.
Billions of transactions per block. Transaction script where you can store any kind of data.

Not some shitty raspberry pi idiots and home users who make the whole network slow. Again, something btc people don't understand. They still try to make running btc core possible on a bad home user pc.
Or in other words: "Decentralized". Which is nothing more than bullshit.
They simply don't realize that they are all worthless. Miners keep the network secure and running, not some raspberry pi who does nothing.

Two things will make BTC fail.
Its bad implementation including the fact that its useless.
Another reason which will make btc even more worse in the eyes of everyone:
The revealing of the truth that 70% of btc's price is fake and pumped up by tether with fake money which will cause the btc price to fall by over 95%.

BTC will be the NetScape of the digital currency industry. Pretty ugly...

BTC will fail.
Or maybe your some kind of fetish guy who likes to wait 10 minutes in the grocery store to wait for his transaction to be confirmed because nobody can trust that you don't RBF. Then BTC will have one last user.
Oh wait, you won't have miners then anymore...

[mr.mister]

Bitcoin mixers and coin mixers in general are only designed for criminals and are only used for criminals.

It's very sad that this forum allows ads from coin mixers. People representing them in their signatures are also supporting criminals.

This coin mixers are used to hide transactions made from deals like drugs and child pornography or any other crimes. And nothing else.

All the instructions which can be found online are literally telling you how to avoid being trace and hide your money. 

All those coin mixers are illegal only alone by the fact that they are not even a company or anything. There's no single legal address. They have no financial license. And even all the scam brokers have one.

And don't come with things like "Its also a use case for some poor guy in Iran who has to hide". That's bullshit. And you know its a lie.

Everyone knows it but many don't want to accept it. They are accepting coin mixers because they think there now some rebellious guy.

When you accept them and support them your making the world more worse.

You should not give them a chance and support someone else. Support good things.

Everyone who tries to find an contra argument will be sad because their aren't any

You are such a faschist!

Just because I have nothing to hide, does not mean I am not entitled to privacy.

[Stedsm]

Is it the mixer's fault if criminals use it?
Leave mixers, is it Bitcoins fault that criminals use BTC to transact for their wrongdoings?
It's not like just criminals use BTC, we too use BTC and even more than those criminals just because we know how and should use it.
The same way, it's not just criminals who use mixers but some of us also use it to save ourselves from the pseudonymous nature of BTC. Tell me, where shall we go except mixers, to keep our transactions completely private by juggling our money and getting them on completely fresh addresses?

[jarjarbinksbinks]

Centralized mixers are a horrible idea.

Look into CoinJoin and the upcoming CoinSwap for alternative methods of increasing privacy.

[carlfebz2]

Is it the mixer's fault if criminals use it?
Leave mixers, is it Bitcoins fault that criminals use BTC to transact for their wrongdoings?
It's not like just criminals use BTC, we too use BTC and even more than those criminals just because we know how and should use it.
The same way, it's not just criminals who use mixers but some of us also use it to save ourselves from the pseudonymous nature of BTC. Tell me, where shall we go except mixers, to keep our transactions completely private by juggling our money and getting them on completely fresh addresses?

Better to ignore than on stressing out yourself on trying out to convince to those people who do have only shallow understanding when it comes to certain things without even rethinking

that those things had already been long existing when its still on fiat. Criminals do make use other mediums to take advantage on erasing up their tracks which is just a common sense
thing for those criminals to do so.

If they do find out such service that do juggle out your coins on making it completely anonymous then theres no doubt that they would really be flocking in with this option.

[DooMAD]

What we need are instant transactions (no RBF) and miners who mine terabyte blocks.
Billions of transactions per block. Transaction script where you can store any kind of data.

Who is this "we" you're referring to?  That sounds like that's something you need because you can't get it.  You can't get it because such a network would never garner sufficient usage or network effects in order to fill gigabyte blocks (let alone terabyte ones).  You simply don't understand the incentives required to secure the chain.  You can't build an economy with empty promises.  I've seen so many clueless rejects like you over the years who think they know how to make Bitcoin "better" with your banal ideology that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.  Unless you're just one of the old rejects back again with a new username and the same tired old lines, of course.  But keep trying (and failing).  You're never going to make any progress here.  

 

Two things will make BTC fail.
Its bad implementation including the fact that its useless.
Another reason which will make btc even more worse in the eyes of everyone:
The revealing of the truth that 70% of btc's price is fake and pumped up by tether with fake money which will cause the btc price to fall by over 95%.

Uh huh.  Cool story bro.  Tether is unquestionably a time bomb, but there is no damage it can do to Bitcoin as a network or a protocol.  The people who are going to get hurt there are mostly the ones holding Tether.  I honestly don't care if there's some short term turmoil with price.  Bitcoin's price isn't what's important.  If you think it is, you're only highlighting your ignorance further.  The important aspects are all the ones your fantasy "terabyte blocks coin" would never be able to achieve, assuming:
 
a) anyone was actually stupid enough to try to create it and  
b) it actually managed to fill those blocks.  Obviously it would never fill them because the only users would be misguided fools like you.

But now that you've revealed your true agenda, perhaps consider dropping the flimsy pretence and acting like this is anything to do with mixers.  Your purpose here is obvious.  Disinformation and propaganda is your game.  You're about as subtle and nuanced as faketoshi himself.  I see right through you.

To spell it out for everyone else reading this, the intended target here isn't mixers, the attack being attempted here is very much on Bitcoin as a whole.  If everyone could stop playing along and fuelling this troll's ambitions, that would be just swell.  

//EDIT:  Brash colouring added so people notice. 

[Stedsm]

Better to ignore than on stressing out yourself on trying out to convince to those people who do have only shallow understanding when it comes to certain things without even rethinking

that those things had already been long existing when its still on fiat. Criminals do make use other mediums to take advantage on erasing up their tracks which is just a common sense
thing for those criminals to do so.

If they do find out such service that do juggle out your coins on making it completely anonymous then theres no doubt that they would really be flocking in with this option.

TBH, it's specifically not for OP alone, but to all those who love privacy over anything and have at least used mixers once in their life. According to what OP has concluded and represented here, every newbie reading his post will think that the one who uses a mixer, straight away gets categorized as a criminal just because they thought for their privacy. It's ridiculous how people think about such services, but a service is a service and when these people are not satisfied with it, nobody asks them to use such services. Just the way you said, if a criminal knows about it, he will definitely use it to satisfy his evil mind's thoughts as well as his ego.

[qwertyup23]

<snip...>

Whoah hold on! I do understand your point but concluding that EVERYONE who uses a bitcoinmixer equates to being a criminal or at least someone involved in criminal activities is just wrong in so many levels. You cannot live in a black-and-white world where there are only two (2) options for you.

Bitcoinmixers are created in order to conceal transactions when you send them to one address to another. While it may be true that it can be an avenue for illegal activities, it was also created for privacy and security.

[ReiMomo]

Can I ask you? is fiat never been used by criminals for funding any terrorist activity?

We know that mixers are prone to criminal activity but it doesn't if you will use a mixer you are a criminal. There are pros and cons to bitcoin mixers and the reason why they still exist now. To increase the anonymity per transaction that we want, do you think if there is a huge transaction made public and will reveal your identity will not give risk in your life?

Good thing there's a bitcoin mixer that increases to hide identity, but it doesn't matter if there is a bad intention who will be used to it, that's their problem once they caught.

[Wawa2013]

To my knowledge, not all user mixers are criminals, sometimes people need privacy when making transactions. And so far only Bitcoin mixers have been
able to provide privacy, so there is no hard evidence to suggest Bitcoin mixers are only for criminals. Because so far criminals use fiat to commit crimes
than cryptocurrency. Based on this, I assume that there are very few criminals using Bitcoin mixers. So the conclusion is Bitcoin mixers have more
positive effects than negative effects, because Bitcoin mixers are needed in the crypto world.