21 million bitcoins is the same as 21 trillion bitcoins (for us now)

[tygeade]

Even with this 21 million bitcoins that we have, I don’t think there is going to be a time when you will want to buy Bitcoin and you will be told that there isn’t any Bitcoin available in the market.

There will always be bitcoins for anyone to buy, although I have noticed that lots of institutions are now buying up so many bitcoins, storing them in their wallets and keeping them from circulating, but the price has been increasing to match the level of demand that has been coming into the market and that’s how it will keep on increase. But, I believe that the number of bitcoins in the market can be increased, but the devs just don’t want to do that.

[PointHope]

So BTC will continue to be mined until about 2140, when all 21 million are finished. But imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and it finished in say the year 9140, it actually wouldn't make any difference to us than 21 million, because the inflation rate would still be the same. I think the current bitcoin inflation rate is 1.3 percent or whatever. So just imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and 18,648,168 BTC were currently in circulation, do you think people would still say you know there will only ever be 21 trillion bitcoins.... i dont think so. But it would be the same as saying there's only 21 million. Maybe in the year 2130 people can say that when there's only 10 years left but for us who are alive now, why should million or trillion matter. Inflation rate and circulating supply would still be the same.... any thoughts?

Divisibility is the topic you are trying to address..

100 million Satoshi = 1 Bitcoin

1 Satoshi can be divided again by 100 million. (that unit should be called 'Roger')(BTC smallest unit)

[kaya11]

Are you trying to defame bitcoin? Im not so sure about your motive, it's sounds like your selling out other than btc to us or to new comers. Bitcoin as of now is okay and if ever it had been 21 trillion, it would've been less than 10 dollars or maybe no value at all. I don't know really ehat satoshi thought the time he chose 21 millions, but the current btc price shows that this guy Satoshi is a genius.

[kryptqnick]

So BTC will continue to be mined until about 2140, when all 21 million are finished. But imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and it finished in say the year 9140, it actually wouldn't make any difference to us than 21 million, because the inflation rate would still be the same. I think the current bitcoin inflation rate is 1.3 percent or whatever. So just imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and 18,648,168 BTC were currently in circulation, do you think people would still say you know there will only ever be 21 trillion bitcoins.... i dont think so. But it would be the same as saying there's only 21 million. Maybe in the year 2130 people can say that when there's only 10 years left but for us who are alive now, why should million or trillion matter. Inflation rate and circulating supply would still be the same.... any thoughts?

What matters most is, of course, the circulating supply, so you're right that under the circumstances you described, 21 trillion bitcoins wouldn't make a difference. The only difference would be in perception, but that difference could have a major impact. The appeal of Bitcoin is largely based on the fact that it's perceived as scarce. If people knew that we've mined a very tiny amount out of the total supply, it would be discouraging and feel like Bitcoin would eventually lose its relevance due to being overabundant. And this could become a self-fulfilling prophecy, making people lose interest in mining and using Bitcoin way faster than it could've actually reasonably happened in a thousand years from now.

[Skieleton]

Mathematical theory
The rationale for Nakamoto's choice.

Calculation of the number of blocks in a four-year cycle:

6 blocks per hour
*24 hours per day
* 365 days a year
* 4 years per cycle
= 210.240

Which is approximately 210,000

The sum of all prize sizes for mined BTC block
50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + 3.125 + ... = 100

210,000 * 100 = 21 million.

One forum user stressed that this equation, however, could not explain the decision made by the creator of Bitcoin, as it was constructed on the basis of already existing parameters.

[arcmetal]

Mathematical theory
The rationale for Nakamoto's choice.

Calculation of the number of blocks in a four-year cycle:

6 blocks per hour
*24 hours per day
* 365 days a year
* 4 years per cycle
= 210.240

Which is approximately 210,000

The sum of all prize sizes for mined BTC block
50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + 3.125 + ... = 100

210,000 * 100 = 21 million.

One forum user stressed that this equation, however, could not explain the decision made by the creator of Bitcoin, as it was constructed on the basis of already existing parameters.

To go a bit further, and try a thought experiment, a value of 84 million coins could have been used.  With the calculations occurring thus:

12 blocks per hour
*24 hours per day
* 365 days a year
* 4 years per cycle
= 420,480

Which is approximately 420,000

The sum of all prize sizes for mined BTC block
100 + 50 + 25 + 12.5 + 6.25 + 3.125 + ... = 200

420,000 * 200 = 84 million.

-----

With this amount of coins, and changing nothing else in the algorithm (and if my guesses are correct), the current circulation supply would be around: 74,640,000.
Given a market cap of 1.07 trillion, may put the price of one bitcoin at:  $ 14,373.

The price of 14k is lower than the current 60k, but this only takes into account an increase in supply, it does not include the human's psychology surrounding prices of assets.  That is, since the price would be lower for the 84 million capped coin, the FOMO would be less.  People would have less fear of missing out over the life this 84 million capped coin since there are more coins in circulation.  This effect may produce less interest, and therefore less buyers which produces an even smaller price than 14k.

Yet another psychological effect on the price, is simply that a lower price gives the impression of less value.  People are less willing to purchase something that has less value.  This seems counter intuitive, but this happens quite frequently in pricing.

One can see that having an even larger circulation number, like in the trillions, would produce even smaller prices for a coin, with even less psychological human interest, in which case it's possible to imagine that bitcoin wouldn't have taken off as it has.

-----

Given the above, there is no reason to think that Satoshi did not experiment with various caps, and block reward amounts, before a final implementation of what we have now.

[Mpamaegbu]

Snip>

Nah! Both supplies don't mean the same thing, whether in figures or in market interpretation. Bitcoin is able to pull up to this price level because of its limited supply. Remember that scarcity gives a thing its price value through demand. Anyday Bitcoin is increased to even as little as 50 million in max supply it will amaze you how fast the price will plummet. So you know that it isn't about inflation anything. It's the scarcity (apart from its pathfinder status) that gives Bitcoin an edge.

First things I do before picking a project is to find out its total supply and then its utility or use-case. I believe a lot of people also do that. Investors don't blindly throw away their money.

[aysg76]

So BTC will continue to be mined until about 2140, when all 21 million are finished. But imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and it finished in say the year 9140, it actually wouldn't make any difference to us than 21 million, because the inflation rate would still be the same. I think the current bitcoin inflation rate is 1.3 percent or whatever. So just imagine if there were 21 trillion bitcoins and 18,648,168 BTC were currently in circulation, do you think people would still say you know there will only ever be 21 trillion bitcoins.... i dont think so. But it would be the same as saying there's only 21 million. Maybe in the year 2130 people can say that when there's only 10 years left but for us who are alive now, why should million or trillion matter. Inflation rate and circulating supply would still be the same.... any thoughts?

I know you want to refer to scarcity at main but you have generated a huge difference between 21million and 21 trillion because the algorithm changes with normal increase or decrease in supply and it will not remain Bitcoin any more.The inflation rate was kept in mind while making Bitcoin which makes it deflationary by mining all the coins by 2140 and prices will be increasing by that time and miners will earn fees over that 21million coins(as that's not possible due to lost bitcoins forever) and block rewards or halving will not occur.So it makes sense and we know how the system will work but for 21 trillion you don't know the system working or when actuall point of scarcity will arise with that.