My Trust Story

[dkbit98]

Trust is not a permanent thing, it's hard to build it and easy to destroy it.
I can trust someone if I exchanged crypto or money with them in past, or if we talked and helped each other in some other way.

True Story:

I had a friend who I trusted for years and we exchanged crypto many times, than one day he asked me to borrow him some crypto and he will return it by specific date he said.
Since I trusted him, I sent him coins he asked without second thinking.

Months passed and I don't hear anything from my friend, and keep in mind that we talked almost every day before that.
Than I sent him a message asking what is happening with him (it's covid thing), and if he can return his loan like he promised, but I got no reply.
I sent him new message on social media, and no reply again so I get worried about his health.

Finally after few days he sent me one reply telling me that he is ok but one of his family members was sick and that he died.
He never mentioned anything about returning his loan, and I found out he asked the same thing from other mutual friend that he also never returned.

I lost my coins and a person who I called friend.


Can I for example trust Hitler for trading if I know he wants to kill other people, or can I trust person who I know is lying or have some mental issues?

If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Does that mean if you believe someone can not be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves negative or neutral feedback?

Read LoyceV guide for correct use of the Trust system for more explanation.

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[suchmoon]

Does that mean if you believe someone can not be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves negative or neutral feedback?

Neutral is applicable in almost any situation where something needs to be noted about the user, good, bad, or, well, neutral - something that doesn't mean "high risk in trading" or "unlikely to scam".

As for negative, I don't see how that follows from your experience. You did trade with the person. You got scammed. On this forum this would call for red trust or even a flag. On the other hand, if you had prior good trades and you didn't think the person would scam... mistakes (including mistakes in judgement of others) happen. That's how scammers operate, by gaining trust. But you can use trust ratings even if you didn't trade with that person as long as you can substantiate your claims.

[dkbit98]

Neutral is applicable in almost any situation where something needs to be noted about the user, good, bad, or, well, neutral - something that doesn't mean "high risk in trading" or "unlikely to scam".

As for negative, I don't see how that follows from your experience. You did trade with the person. You got scammed. On this forum this would call for red trust or even a flag. On the other hand, if you had prior good trades and you didn't think the person would scam... mistakes (including mistakes in judgement of others) happen. That's how scammers operate, by gaining trust. But you can use trust ratings even if you didn't trade with that person as long as you can substantiate your claims.

What about Hitler scenario?

PS
I didn't get scammed badly and ex-friend actually contacted me for chit-chat several times after this incident, but I don't want to talk with him anymore since I lost all trust in him.
He never offered to return his loan, I will never ask him again, and he is acting like it never happened.
I don't think he is really a scammer but I do suspect he may have some gambling problems that I never knew before.

[lovesmayfamilis]

To me, positive trust looks exactly as LoyceV writes. Yes, I have not traded with people I trust. My intuition tells me that those people to whom I leave positive trust are decent people. I try to trust people, but I always rely on their behavior and views.
When it comes to negative trust, my attitude is exactly the same. If I see that someone is caught in a lie, I need to be very careful with him. The one who lied once, according to custom, will lie the second time.
Now, if we talk about the complete trust of people with whom you communicate on the Internet, everything is much more complicated. Here I would rather not trust people any more than trust. Because on the other side of the monitor there may be a completely different person for whom he pretends to be. All the risks associated with some kind of financial issues on the Internet need to be weighed several times, and in case of failures, blame only yourself.

[hopenotlate]

Neutral is applicable in almost any situation where something needs to be noted about the user, good, bad, or, well, neutral - something that doesn't mean "high risk in trading" or "unlikely to scam".

As for negative, I don't see how that follows from your experience. You did trade with the person. You got scammed. On this forum this would call for red trust or even a flag. On the other hand, if you had prior good trades and you didn't think the person would scam... mistakes (including mistakes in judgement of others) happen. That's how scammers operate, by gaining trust. But you can use trust ratings even if you didn't trade with that person as long as you can substantiate your claims.

What about Hitler scenario?

PS
I didn't get scammed badly and ex-friend actually contacted me for chit-chat several times after this incident, but I don't want to talk with him anymore since I lost all trust in him.
He never offered to return his loan, I will never ask him again, and he is acting like it never happened.
I don't think he is really a scammer but I do suspect he may have some gambling problems that I never knew before.

Regarding your ex-friend I wouldn't let him go through so painlessly; he is pretending like everything it's ok ( and my guess is it really is ok for him) but I, in your shoes, would point this out to him rather firmly and directly: "why you did...",  " why you pretending ..." "what do you have to say about this" and so on.
Also if he is a forum user I would red tag him immediately ( and eventually turn it into neutral if/once he solves the situation) to avoid other forum members may incur in the same unfortunate occurrence.

I'm prone to extend the above concepts also to the case of the Hitler scenario : if someone shows a bad attitude in general, you are aware of it and can prove it,  even if it (still) didn't hit you specifically I think it should be made public for the safety of the community.

[LoyceV]

Does that mean if you believe someone can not be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves negative or neutral feedback?

Yes. In fact, that's how I left most of my negative feedback. I actually prefer not to get scammed first, but just leave the red tag as a warning.

ex-friend actually contacted me for chit-chat several times after this incident

Don't mix friends (or family) and money. It can only end badly.
And even if you really want to help someone by donating money, they'll probably come back for more.

Source: life experience.

Can I for example trust Hitler for trading if I know he wants to kill other people, or can I trust person who I know is lying or have some mental issues?

You mean like trading, say, Poland for, say, Italy? I wouldn't trust him.

[AB de Royse777]

I have lost a good amount of investments just because I trusted some forum members. I have never seen them in real life but the presence on the forum, the activities of the forum, the contribution to the community created this essence that they can be trusted. They started with small fingers. Never late with the repayments in fact they were dates before the deadline with tips, there were no red flags.

Truth was that they were waiting for the perfect time. After taking a large amount they just disappear. So whatever your business on the forum, do not give way too much to anyone that you can not afford to lose.

Can I for example trust Hitler for trading if I know he wants to kill other people,

I would trust Hitler if I see he is capable of repaying the debt but when we are talking about killing people using the money he borrowed from me then it's a moral thing if I should give him the money or not. In that case trusting is not what we are looking here, in this case my moral is parallel to Hitler's moral.

It was political. For some Hitler is a hero and for some he is a villain depending on the side you were in.

or can I trust person who I know is lying

I would not trust a lier. They will make excuses not to pay you if they really do not want to repay you.

or have some mental issues?

Depends.


Anyway, the entire trust thing is not like two side of a coin, it's not black and white. We are a very complex creature, and we make things complicated. Only the sky is the limit of our imagination.

[dkbit98]

Don't mix friends (or family) and money. It can only end badly.
And even if you really want to help someone by donating money, they'll probably come back for more.

Source: life experience.

I am trying to keep this separate and I saw many examples of friends breaking up after something like this, but I can never trust anyone fully and the moment I send my money to someone I say goodbye to my money  
Makes it easier for me and I think about it like a donation, or else I would probably go insane like some people.

You mean like trading, say, Poland for, say, Italy? I wouldn't trust him.

Let's say there is one American Banker working with Hitler, and he knows he is insane mental patient who wants to kill people he don't like.
Sure he can't make real proof that Hitler really wants to kill people, until concentration camp secrets are revealed few years later, but he could read his books earlier when he wrote about his final solution?
Person like this should obviously not be trusted

For some Hitler is a hero and for some he is a villain depending on the side you were in.

Hero maybe for his dog

Anyway, the entire trust thing is not like two side of a coin, it's not black and white.

Yeah, so trust feedback is not that simple as just reading the title, is it.

[hopenotlate]

Let's say there is one American Banker working with Hitler, and he knows he is insane mental patient who wants to kill people he don't like.
Sure he can't make real proof that Hitler really wants to kill people, until concentration camp secrets are revealed few years later, but he could read his books earlier when he wrote about his final solution?
Person like this should obviously not be trusted

herm ....maybe you are referring to Switzerland whose government at the time had passively ratified the operations of the National Bank with the Nazis ....sorry for my offtopic.

[AB de Royse777]

For some Hitler is a hero and for some he is a villain depending on the side you were in.

Hero maybe for his dog

Like I said it depends on the side you are in.

If you watch American war movies then you will see all heroes are in America
If you see Indian then you will see they are the hero, and they are on the right side
If you see Pakistani movie then you will see in the same war they are on the right side.
If you see Russian then they are the right side
If you are a German then you are always right for your side.
Talk about China, Korea, Vietnam all the same.

Who is wrong? I hope it makes sense now.

[LoyceV]

I can never trust anyone fully and the moment I send my money to someone I say goodbye to my money  

I have a slightly different approach: I know the people I fully trust would never ask me for money. It's also a lot easier to be trustworthy if you don't need money, than when you need money because your kids are hungry.
And I'm pretty sure that works the same here: except for mobile emergencies, I don't expect to ever ask for a loan.

I really don't get why some people would often ask for a small loan, pay interest, and do the same again later. Just make sure you always have some money, save yourself the interest, and enjoy the fact that you don't owe someone money.

[ChuckBuck]

Maybe this is a sad story, maybe you won't trust that guy again. But as far as I think, there is a difference in the friendships between the people on this forum and the friendship in real life. And even, I believe, the friendship on this forum is never as close as the friendship outside your life. I have a few friends out there, seems close, we have known each other for many years, like you, some years ago when they were in trouble, I lent them. An amount is not too big, but not so small that we can ignore it   And you know, it's been a few years, since then, I haven't received any money yet   We're still in touch though (maybe this is the difference between me and you). Their lives get better, they buy many things, but they still don't think about repaying me   Isn't that strange? Even when I had an accident, I was quite in need, but nothing. Do you think I have put the wrong beliefs? Honestly, for me, it's not that important, I don't want the relationship to change because of money, you know. But it would be bad if we were taken advantage, very disappointing    

Even on this forum and in real life, I never wanted to borrow money from someone, unless I could do nothing else. But there are those who feel it is obvious to borrow money  

I have a slightly different approach: I know the people I fully trust would never ask me for money. It's also a lot easier to be trustworthy if you don't need money, than when you need money because your kids are hungry.

Also my way of thinking

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't think he is really a scammer but I do suspect he may have some gambling problems that I never knew before.

All bets are off as far as friendship goes when you're dealing with a problem gambler.  If that is indeed the case, it doesn't surprise me that he isn't even acknowledging his debt to you and it's also not likely you're ever going to get paid back. 

And yeah, trust can be destroyed in an instant--especially these days with all this call-out culture we've got going on, as if nobody's made mistakes of their own before.  Anyway.  I've read your Hitler scenarios, but my brain isn't up to thinking about hypothetical situations like that today.  Ask five different people how the trust system here should work, and you'll get six different answers.

[suchmoon]

What about Hitler scenario?

Knowing that he's Hitler - no. But for all I know someone in my trust list, or someone I sent a positive rating to, may commit murder in the future. They may have already done something like that and could be sociopathic enough to play a nice trustworthy person on this forum. This is a weird place. Some trust concepts IRL don't translate well here. This place probably amplifies the worst in people due to the illusion of anonymity.

One thing to note though that lying and/or mental issues (how do you even quantify that... I'm sure we all look like we're on some kind of spectrum to some outside observers, playing with imaginary internet money) in general doesn't automatically mean the person is untrustworthy in trading. My favorite example is that you're probably a higher risk if you don't lie when your spouse asks "do I look good in this".

[JollyGood]

A sad story but what hurt you more, the fact you lost somebody you thought of as a friend or the financial hit of losing your crypto?

True Story:

I had a friend who I trusted for years and we exchanged crypto many times, than one day he asked me to borrow him some crypto and he will return it by specific date he said.
Since I trusted him, I sent him coins he asked without second thinking.


~snip~

[dkbit98]

A sad story but what hurt you more, the fact you lost somebody you thought of as a friend or the financial hit of losing your crypto?

I didn't lose my life savings, so losing a friend hurt more for sure.

Knowing that he's Hitler - no. But for all I know someone in my trust list, or someone I sent a positive rating to, may commit murder in the future.

If you have someone who is thinking that world would be a better place if some group of people would be killed, and if we writes that in public place like a book, newspaper or a forum than you have much higher chances for that.

[FatFork]

A sad story but what hurt you more, the fact you lost somebody you thought of as a friend or the financial hit of losing your crypto?

I didn't lose my life savings, so losing a friend hurt more for sure.

You may not see it that way right now, but I would say you're hurt by a little bit of both. True, it may not be a significant sum of money or your life savings, but what hurts the most, in my experience, is the loss of trust we have placed in someone. Humans are, for the most part, emotional beings. As a result, it hurts us when someone betrays our trust, no matter how much money is involved.

We find it more difficult to trust others as we grow older and more experienced. That is why it is more difficult for people in their later years to fall in love. All of this is influenced by our past experiences and all of the subtle traumas we've experienced while interacting with one another.

I recall a time when my kid asked about why I had given up faith in people. This shocked me because I've never thought of myself as being overly suspicious of others. However, all of our doubts and questioning about other people's words and actions appeared to a child as if we don't trust anyone. Of course, this isn't the case. We're just being vigilant because we don't want to be hurt (again).