2021-03-30 TheVerge - PayPal will let US users pay with Bitcoin

[acquafredda]

We already knew that PayPal was planning to support cryptocurrencies as a form of payment. And now, the online payment app announced US customers can do just that with its “Checkout with Crypto” feature, rolling out today.

After rolling out the ability for US users to directly buy and sell cryptocurrency directly from their accounts last November, PayPal’s new “Checkout with Crypto” allows users to instantly convert their Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, or Bitcoin Cash to US dollars (with no additional transaction fees) that PayPal then uses to complete the transaction. If a merchant doesn’t take US dollars, PayPal also converts those dollars into local currency at standard conversion rates set by PayPal.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/30/22357246/paypal-buy-with-bitcoin-litecoin-ethereum-crypto-checkout

By now you should have noticed that the market was in a great frenzy and it was actually strange not to find this news here. PayPal is again showing a bold stance towards crypto and this implementation is very big.
What else next?

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[prehisto]

I am not a fan of PayPal as a seller on PayPal, litle protection from scammy buyers, insane fees for regular transactions , also they are robbing people with conversation rates between currencies.

As a buyer I tend to enjoy the protection they give me  

I believe they saw that they are losing market share to crypto currencies thats why the had to start working with them not against them.

[Slow death]

Paypal is bringing something we need at this moment: more exposure, but there is a difference from the exposure that paypal is bringing, which is how paypal is a payment processor and when they accept bitcoin they can awaken in people the spirit of using bitcoin to make payments and not just obsessing about making hodl, that's why I think this exposure that paypal is bringing is very good

[bbc.reporter]

I would change my skepticsm of Paypal’s adoption of bitcoin if it begins allowing cryptocoin withdrawals from their site. What Paypal only did is create crypto gamblers of their users. This is my opinion only. Also, I hope Paypal releases the data on how many of their users really pay with bitcoin.

[Kakmakr]

The "PayPal" news is good, but it is also bad. PayPal effectively act as a Payment processor and whatever bitcoins are bought and sold, will not really have an affect on the price. As I see it, most people will not have any real incentive to use Crypto currencies over PayPal, because most of those coins are bought and sold on their centralized database. 

This is just a way to regulate and control people's transactions that are done via a centralized database. The true value in Crypto currencies like Bitcoin is centered around it's pseudo anonymity and also not relying on any centralized financial platform. (If PayPal goes down, you will not be able to use the coins on their platform)

It comes back to this.... "Not your Private Key, not your coins" 

[acquafredda]

I would change my skepticsm of Paypal’s adoption of bitcoin if it begins allowing cryptocoin withdrawals from their site. What Paypal only did is create crypto gamblers of their users. This is my opinion only. Also, I hope Paypal releases the data on how many of their users really pay with bitcoin.

It is about having faith now, you are right. Eventually they will have to do that, meaning PayPal will have to allow its customers to go in/out of crypto at will. It is about time, it will come. I would wait until the end of they year to see their facts and figures and, like you, I hope they will release their numbers.

[bbc.reporter]

@acquafredda. Those numbers will be low, I reckon. Not much of holders buy with bitcoin. Much of it is speculative holding to sell later at a higher price. Sorry but this is reality.

This might only be larping by Paypal to appear bitcoin friendly because it has become a good marketing device similar to what Tesla and Microstrategy did.

[acquafredda]

It think that is not a problem at all given that people are exercising their time preference here: if I believe Bitcoin is going to be valued more in the future and if I see it as a valuable investment algonside a sound asset why should I be using for as a means of payment? Still, that is one of the main property that bitcoin has so who will want to use bitcoin (I imagine for high-value txs) could da that too.

[InvoKing]

I would change my skepticsm of Paypal’s adoption of bitcoin if it begins allowing cryptocoin withdrawals from their site. What Paypal only did is create crypto gamblers of their users. This is my opinion only. Also, I hope Paypal releases the data on how many of their users really pay with bitcoin.

Big businesses don't care how much people buy with bitcoin. They appreciate every entering satoshi that will be multiplied after few months while FIAT is in devaluation over the years.

[bbc.reporter]

@acquafredda @ InvoKing. Agreed! This is why I speculate that the numbers for amount of transactions for Paypal purchases through bitcoin will be low. If Paypal did not know this, they will soon learn. If Paypal knew this already then I reckon they are only using bitcoin friendliness as a device for marketing.

[aoluain]

Just thinking wont this also enable us to transfer Bitcoin to Paypal and then transfer to a
bank account and potentially avoid paying TAX on it?

Also using Paypal to buy goods where the merchant doesnt accept Bitcoin can also
help us avoid paying TAX instead of liquidating Bitcoin to FIAT in order to buy goods.

[Harlot]

Just thinking wont this also enable us to transfer Bitcoin to Paypal and then transfer to a
bank account and potentially avoid paying TAX on it?

It's considered a trade if you do that as you are using Paypal to convert your Bitcoin into Fiat Currency and not necessarily using their services in order to use your crypto for payments. The conversion it will take place will be considered as your capital gains. You won't really be avoiding any tax here as simply I don't see any loopholes on a straightforward law about your taxes with cryptocurrencies. Keep in mind that since Paypal is a very big company they will be in compliance with various AML laws and they will most likely do everything to avoid and report illicit activities from happening with their services.

[acquafredda]

@acquafredda @ InvoKing. Agreed! This is why I speculate that the numbers for amount of transactions for Paypal purchases through bitcoin will be low. If Paypal did not know this, they will soon learn. If Paypal knew this already then I reckon they are only using bitcoin friendliness as a device for marketing.

You are absolutely right, I believe that it was a marketing move too, but that goes to promote basically their trading/brokerage service where people buy and sell BTC. If they would not know about how costly it is to transact with BTC that would be a true shame for them, so of course they know

[aoluain]

Just thinking wont this also enable us to transfer Bitcoin to Paypal and then transfer to a
bank account and potentially avoid paying TAX on it?

It's considered a trade if you do that as you are using Paypal to convert your Bitcoin into Fiat Currency and not necessarily using their services in order to use your crypto for payments. The conversion it will take place will be considered as your capital gains. You won't really be avoiding any tax here as simply I don't see any loopholes on a straightforward law about your taxes with cryptocurrencies. Keep in mind that since Paypal is a very big company they will be in compliance with various AML laws and they will most likely do everything to avoid and report illicit activities from happening with their services.

so would there be a reporting issue? would people have to report that they made a profit
from Bitcoin and they purchased goods with that via Paypal?

[Theb]

The "PayPal" news is good, but it is also bad. PayPal effectively act as a Payment processor and whatever bitcoins are bought and sold, will not really have an affect on the price. As I see it, most people will not have any real incentive to use Crypto currencies over PayPal, because most of those coins are bought and sold on their centralized database. 

Yeah when it comes to cryptocurrencies being used as payment (coverted into Fiat) this won't affect the price of Bitcoin but they also have direct buy and sell for the cryptocurrencies within their services. It might not be the same as a normal crypto exchange platform where you can setup your buy and sell order but it does have an influence on Paypal directly as they will be the ones buying cryptocurrencies for their own supply for their service. Also didn't we asked for a wider presence that can help us have the mass adoption we are looking for? We can't really help it but for these big name companies finally including cryptocurrencies in their businesses is really a step up for the public to be aware that cryptocurrencies exists in the end the crypto holder will always be the one who will choose whether he wants to avail a centralized service or not.

[Harlot]

Just thinking wont this also enable us to transfer Bitcoin to Paypal and then transfer to a
bank account and potentially avoid paying TAX on it?

It's considered a trade if you do that as you are using Paypal to convert your Bitcoin into Fiat Currency and not necessarily using their services in order to use your crypto for payments. The conversion it will take place will be considered as your capital gains. You won't really be avoiding any tax here as simply I don't see any loopholes on a straightforward law about your taxes with cryptocurrencies. Keep in mind that since Paypal is a very big company they will be in compliance with various AML laws and they will most likely do everything to avoid and report illicit activities from happening with their services.

so would there be a reporting issue? would people have to report that they made a profit
from Bitcoin and they purchased goods with that via Paypal?

If you are in the US this is one of their requirements as a capital gain has happened from the sale using Paypal's crypto services, at least this is how things are done in that country. Also if you are asking if Paypal would be the one reporting it for you I don't think they will since tax reports should be filed by you and not them, you just need to keep a record of your transaction using their service. Paypal would only be reporting some transactions that may pass a certain threshold that makes them required to report it to the authorities, transaction trenches or "unusual activity" is something also reported these businesses as well.

[DapanasFruit]

PayPal is becoming one of the biggest influencers for the rise of cryptocurrency and I guess this is just the beginning. With this facility prepared by PayPal, many merchants already in its payment network will surely get benefitted and individual accounts too can now be accepting the above coins just like its fiat counterparts. Let's see if this same thing can be rolled out also in other countries where PayPal has been allowed to operate.  Any good news coming from PayPal is surely received with a lot of excitement and of course some good movement especially with Bitcoin. In the next few months, other coins and tokens will surely be integrated with PayPal too. Which can be the next lucky ones?

[Vishnu.Reang]

PayPal is making more features available with their Bitcoin service. I believe that it is just a matter of time before they make Bitcoin services available for the global users and allow everyone to withdraw the Bitcoin that they purchased through PayPal to non-PayPal addresses. So far, I am happy with the support towards cryptocurrency from PayPal. It is a mutually beneficial relationship and those who criticized PayPal for this move (here in Bitcoitalk) should admit that they were wrong about it.

[Theb]

PayPal is becoming one of the biggest influencers for the rise of cryptocurrency and I guess this is just the beginning. With this facility prepared by PayPal, many merchants already in its payment network will surely get benefitted and individual accounts too can now be accepting the above coins just like its fiat counterparts. Let's see if this same thing can be rolled out also in other countries where PayPal has been allowed to operate.  Any good news coming from PayPal is surely received with a lot of excitement and of course some good movement especially with Bitcoin. In the next few months, other coins and tokens will surely be integrated with PayPal too. Which can be the next lucky ones?

If you have read the article provided you will see that its not only Bitcoin they are allowing to have an automatic conversion from crypto to USD but they also have included Ethereum, Litecoin, and BitcoinCash which are the most popular cryptocurrencies out there. Paypal being the "biggest" influencer out there is something that I would disagree on since they aren't really promoting cryptocurrencies or directly using it as a payment. Unlike Tesla where Elon Musk showed support by not only buying Bitcoin but also has start accepting direct Bitcoin payments for their cars the Bitcoin earned will also not be converted into fiat but will stay as is and be part of their holdings which just shows more support towards the cryptocurrency.

[bbc.reporter]

Just thinking wont this also enable us to transfer Bitcoin to Paypal and then transfer to a
bank account and potentially avoid paying TAX on it?

Also using Paypal to buy goods where the merchant doesnt accept Bitcoin can also
help us avoid paying TAX instead of liquidating Bitcoin to FIAT in order to buy goods.

How would you avoid being taxed if Paypal can be pressured be the IRS or another government department to cooperate with it? They are starting to do it with Kraken. This is why I speculate that Paypal will never enable cryptocoin withdrawals. It will be a compliance nightmare.