An alternative to Poker

[shoreno]

The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms

algorithms is what makes poker game skill based but if theres no algorithm , poker will purely rely on luck .

Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times.

huh ? poker is a famous game even before especially now that gambling online is easy .

this might help you
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1658678/any-card-games-similar-poker

[tokeweed]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

There are different variants of poker.  You can play PLO or Short Deck.  Those two games aren’t ‘solved’ like how NLHE is.  And that’s the thing, I think ‘solved’ is the wrong word for it.  But these solvers do spoon feed the player with which moves to make in most spots.  But saying that the game is ‘solved’ is an oversimplification.

Again try PLO and Short Deck.  They’re more fun than NLHE anyway.  

[Fundamentals Of]

I have known a few games of cards but none of them except poker and blackjack and their variations are available through online PvP sites. For now, I think there is no card game closely similar to poker which could serve as its alternative.

I don't understand you saying that poker is already solved by algorithms. What exactly do you mean by that? That it could now be predictable even when playing PvP?

[Twentyonepaylots]

If you want sure profits, I would suggest you try crypto games out there that shouldn't require that much luck for you to earn. Axie Infinity offers so much profitability now and is becoming even more promising in the future. It's up to you really but if you're willing to switch games there are a bunch out there that offers as much profitability as Poker with lesser drawbacks/risks.

[magneto]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

AFAIK there has only been an increasing amount of poker players. Not sure what you are talking about.

In terms of both luck and skill, you can also try video poker. Some variants of video poker actually have the house at a disadvantage which means that if you play the perfect strategy you are going to make money over the long run. Blackjack AP also requires a ton of skill and could yield you profits over the long term if you do it right.

But to profit from all these games you need to have an algorithm to play by, much like poker. Everyone has access to it but executing it takes years of practice.

[STT]

poker will purely rely on luck

Its not purely luck, you can average out your performance and improve your chances by a consistent strategy and there is skill in competing against the other players effectively.   One hand can be argued to be luck especially if played in a blind or all in kind of way then you just rely on the river card perhaps to pay off or not but people will play over a series of hands and you can apply some part of probability theory.   Some think it incorrect but repeatedly getting 4 aces in sequential hands should not happen so I do act on the hands that appeared previously to some extent to decide my actions.

P.S. the machine algorithm that you are talking about :

That resembles pascals triangle to me, outlier events can be determined in probability by the path required to arrive at that sequence.   I was taught statistics and probability a while ago so maybe Im off but Im biased to that line of judging an outcome, I think people do this consciously or sometimes just 'in their heads' but still similarly.

[BTCLiz]

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

Maybe something like this? Try giving it a look.

Blackjack.Fun
https://blackjack.fun/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5106215.0

You can play and compete with other players here.

It is just Blackjack. Blackjack is definitely -EV. I am talking about some kind of new game, which needs to be more complex then poker. From a game theory of view HU in poker is already completely solved.

[chaser15]

I am talking about some kind of new game, which needs to be more complex then poker. From a game theory of view HU in poker is already completely solved.

Then maybe all available card games around are not suited to your needs.

Maybe wait for a certain gambling site to offer another variant of a new poker game or something that is more complex and will heavily rely on skills. Heard of Chine Poker? Is that a card game that closes to what you are looking for?

[yahoo62278]

I am talking about some kind of new game, which needs to be more complex then poker. From a game theory of view HU in poker is already completely solved.

Then maybe all available card games around are not suited to your needs.

 Heard of Chine Poker? Is that a card game that closes to what you are looking for?

It's called chinese poker I believe. There are a few different variations of the game and it's quite fun to play but the only place I have seen it available on is SwC and that sites RNG just blows IMO. There also aren't really that many players.

[panjul07]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

If you live in my country, you will have some alternatives.
Here in my country there are some popular pvp game like poker, and it has many active online players.
The games namely Domino QQ and 13 Cards and let me show you how the game looks like:

DominoQQ


13Cards or Capsa


Unfortunately, the games are not available in this crypto gambling industry.
Perhaps because it is popular in my country only.

[Insanerman]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

There would be no alternative to poker in modern online gambling casinos nor will have one. Poker itself is indeed somehow a small percentage predictable, yet the chance are waaay small and riskier than you losing a game. If ever that some poker alternative were developed, would you think it would be the same poker and have the same satisfaction as we used to have in playing it? No right? Also, it is ironic to imply luck and combine it with skill. If you are skillful, you cannot really be called lucky. If you are lucky, you are not really that skillful. Is there someone that both is lucky and skillful? I guess there's none.

[johhnyUA]

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Man6 you should try asian gambling games, like mahjong. Most of Asian games is based mostly on skills, or at least on skill to use what destiny send to you (I mean you throwing dice and making move, you can make good move or bad move, something like that)

I don't know too much purely gambling games compared to poker in terms of balance between skill and luck. (The only two is maybe Bridge and Preferance)

[famososMuertos]

Well I hope not to continue in the bluff or semi-bluff of some posts in reference to the OP.

- I do not understand very well what you mean by what is solved with algorithms, perhaps if it refers to the support software that exists to make decisions based on the data of opponent

In that case, it is worth saying, these tools also made those who used them will win lot of money. It is an advantage, but it is not something or algorithm that solves the "how to play".
Many casinos prohibit them. .

- On the other hand, when online poker had its glory in 2003, many "professional" players ("" because some of them were minors) of non-traditional card games began to play poker, perhaps the most famous and and the one that attracted most players to the poker scene went Magic.

There are currently many skill card games like Magic, Jaipur, Dominion and the list is as extensive as the fan of card games can be.

If you mention new games, the 21st century (XX too) is full of them both online and their traditional table versions.

Blackjack? come on!! like poker it is so old that again it has little.

^{This is "tells" OP.}

[just_Alice]

For me, there's nothing better than Poker if we're talking about skills games, but there are other options. There's also blackjack and, I'm quite surprised no one mentioned Spades, it also includes a lot of strategic thinking, no less than Poker, perhaps. And, of course, there's Yahtzee. While it includes dice, which brings an element of luck to the game - a strategy should also be applied and you need to make a lot of decisions, evaluate your risks, which is why to play this game it's better to understand probabilities first.

[praine]

For me, there's nothing better than Poker if we're talking about skills games, but there are other options. There's also blackjack and, I'm quite surprised no one mentioned Spades, it also includes a lot of strategic thinking, no less than Poker, perhaps. And, of course, there's Yahtzee. While it includes dice, which brings an element of luck to the game - a strategy should also be applied and you need to make a lot of decisions, evaluate your risks, which is why to play this game it's better to understand probabilities first.

I love Yahtzee but a computer can show you what all the best decisions are so it's not a game you could securely play for money. The OP is looking for PVP games that aren't solved by computers and can be +EV for players. Not easy criteria to fulfill.

I think Rock Paper Scissors is the purest and best PVP game but it's hard to call it a skill game since you can just let an RNG decide the throws to neutralize any advantage that might exist between the two players.

[pinggoki]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

When it terms to card games, no betting game or gambling game that will be able to defeat poker or maybe no one will be able to surpass poker when it terms on strategy and skills because poker isn't just based on luck. It is also based on skills and experience in which the more experience you have playing you have the great edge among all the players. Just like for example those poker players that are playing on the underground casinos, they are the one who is really skillful because those gamblers are rhe one who is playing with all their might.

[just_Alice]

For me, there's nothing better than Poker if we're talking about skills games, but there are other options. There's also blackjack and, I'm quite surprised no one mentioned Spades, it also includes a lot of strategic thinking, no less than Poker, perhaps. And, of course, there's Yahtzee. While it includes dice, which brings an element of luck to the game - a strategy should also be applied and you need to make a lot of decisions, evaluate your risks, which is why to play this game it's better to understand probabilities first.

I love Yahtzee but a computer can show you what all the best decisions are so it's not a game you could securely play for money. The OP is looking for PVP games that aren't solved by computers and can be +EV for players. Not easy criteria to fulfill.

I think Rock Paper Scissors is the purest and best PVP game but it's hard to call it a skill game since you can just let an RNG decide the throws to neutralize any advantage that might exist between the two players.

Yeah, but from that point of view Poker also isn't the best choice, because computers can calculate the best decisions in poker as well. But I see now, that's what OP was stating in the first place. IMO these calculators mean nothing because in games like Poker and Yahtzee the calculated best decision isn't always the right one. I remember my experience in playing Poker with bots, which were programmed for these very best decisions and they suck.
 
Any skilled player can outplay these calculators because it's not only about playing with the best odds, sometimes it's about knowing when to take the risk, which is also a skill.
 
I'm starting to think that what OP asked for is actually impossible because for any games that require skills the best option can be calculated (in one way or another), and the only games that can't be solved like this are those, which depend purely on luck

[BTCLiz]

For me, there's nothing better than Poker if we're talking about skills games, but there are other options. There's also blackjack and, I'm quite surprised no one mentioned Spades, it also includes a lot of strategic thinking, no less than Poker, perhaps. And, of course, there's Yahtzee. While it includes dice, which brings an element of luck to the game - a strategy should also be applied and you need to make a lot of decisions, evaluate your risks, which is why to play this game it's better to understand probabilities first.

I love Yahtzee but a computer can show you what all the best decisions are so it's not a game you could securely play for money. The OP is looking for PVP games that aren't solved by computers and can be +EV for players. Not easy criteria to fulfill.

I think Rock Paper Scissors is the purest and best PVP game but it's hard to call it a skill game since you can just let an RNG decide the throws to neutralize any advantage that might exist between the two players.

Yeah, but from that point of view Poker also isn't the best choice, because computers can calculate the best decisions in poker as well. But I see now, that's what OP was stating in the first place. IMO these calculators mean nothing because in games like Poker and Yahtzee the calculated best decision isn't always the right one. I remember my experience in playing Poker with bots, which were programmed for these very best decisions and they suck.
 
Any skilled player can outplay these calculators because it's not only about playing with the best odds, sometimes it's about knowing when to take the risk, which is also a skill.
 
I'm starting to think that what OP asked for is actually impossible because for any games that require skills the best option can be calculated (in one way or another), and the only games that can't be solved like this are those, which depend purely on luck

Bots have improved a lot during that last years. This is a great issue and I am very sure that in a couple of years poker will be mainly a game where bots fight against other highly-complex bots. In this case also owners of bots have a higher advantage with better computation power.

[BTCLiz]

In the last week I was thinking about an interesting variant of chess. Imagine a chess board where you cant see some figures of your opponent, e.g. the first and the last row. Here the figures are mixed, so you dont know where the queen is. People would definitely play this game for money, right? Skill is involved but also a decent amount of luck.

[Fatunad]

In the last week I was thinking about an interesting variant of chess. Imagine a chess board where you cant see some figures of your opponent, e.g. the first and the last row. Here the figures are mixed, so you dont know where the queen is. People would definitely play this game for money, right? Skill is involved but also a decent amount of luck.

Dont know if there's someone would be interested on that one on where you do presume out things and try to keep guessing on where the queen is or even the king.

Sounds unique but i doubt about the interest of the community.When it comes to pvp games then most likely talks about card games which we can see in the market as of today.

Better stick out on gambling sites which had been trusted because even on a simple coin flip game could really be rigged out.