An alternative to Poker

[Lucasgabd]

But still, it is difficult to bluff the opponents if you play an online poker game as we do not see what reaction from our opponents. Maybe we can use controllability to bluff but decoy them and think that we have a bad card. But you can still try that method and hopefully.

it's true that poker face can only be experienced in real life. but it can also be done through bet size and game time. Yes, actually this is also tricky
because anyone can bluff. So poker is a game that uses mental as well. most high roll poker they played with strong hand so rare people bluff, It also depends on the player.

Exactly: bet size and the time you take before checking/raising/calling. I thought I invented this wording for bluff in online poker(I mean adding time to the equation, of course,  bluffing with a bet size is a well known thing), but apparently I wasn't alone.

Regarding "poker is already solved by algorithms", I disagree. Firstly, it's only Two-player limit Texas hold’em was "solved", and secondly by "solved" they mean that computer will win or break even in the long run. And "in the long run" is the key phrase here. If you are not forced to play thousands and thousands of games, you can beat  the husband of Cassiopeia , or, at least it's not guaranteed that you won't.

quite interesting answer
found that because of your link on the last post

so, how long would be considered "in the long run"?

regarding the "poker face' possibility in the digital version, I agree, it's a bit more tricky but possible.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

Well one of the things why some casinos or sites offer online poker contests is that, to get much more customers, however some PVP games can be played with Black Jack.

There are other ways of implementing games for PVP, but that they are in games of chance is something difficult, therefore any game that has to do with cards is much easier, another option is with roulette, because each person makes their bet And it's like being in a normal traditional casino, I think that this may be one of the strategies that very few casinos manage to implement.

Can you please elaborate more on the last part of your post? Do you mean that the traditional roulette game after some transformation can become a game that depends not only on luck but on skill too?

This could be interesting, but I personally don't see the way of making roulette not purely luck based game.


Regarding the OP, I want to repeat (since my early reply was ignored by everyone ), PvP poker has not been solved by algorithms in the sense that it's not interesting to play this game anymore.

Well, the truth is that I have begun to believe in ability and in choosing the correct option, because on some occasions that occur in roulette we can choose a path, in fact I have been reading a lot about it, when you play with many people you can give opportunities, and in this article that they have on the bitcasino.io blog it is very interesting: https://bitcasino.io/blog/tipshackstricks/guide-to-roulette

Of course, it takes a lot of skill to use strategies appropriately and a bit of daring and expect anything while taking risks.

[Silberman]

it's true that poker face can only be experienced in real life. but it can also be done through bet size and game time. Yes, actually this is also tricky
because anyone can bluff. So poker is a game that uses mental as well. most high roll poker they played with strong hand so rare people bluff, It also depends on the player.

Not a lot of thinks about this regarding bluffing in online poker, they think that it's just all about your behavior and your faces so you can't use it when you're online but the betting patterns and how you respond each game could also be a good way to bluff an opponent.

The professional players look at every single aspect of your game to try to see if there is a weakness, even something as simple as how much time you take for your actions is very telling, as if you play quickly sometimes then this could indicate that you have a good hand as you do not have to think too much about your next move, while taking longer could mean that you are not so sure and your hand is not as good, which is why I always try to make my move roughly at the same time so this does not becomes something they can analyze.

[ReiMomo]

I dont know if this has been suggested but in my own opinion card games can be considered as a good alternative to a poker game. Card games like Tong-its need to have a better calculation better dropping the card which you are thinking and analyzing which is better. So I think this could be similar to the poker game which is it needs analysis per drop and I heard that many places have this kind of game but unfortunately this is illegal in my place.

[worldofcoins]

Hey guys,

what do yout think about a new game, which involves both luck and skill like poker? Is there already such an alternative on the market? The problem with poker is that it is already solved by algorithms. Sure, there are still some players, but not as much as in the old glory times...

Edit: I'm just regarding games that you can play PvP and not against a house-edge-casino..

I've played Texas Hold'em and it's considered poker then what about Ohama it is also poker?

In any case, if you're interested in playing poker anymore then switch to Sports betting or Casino games unless you want a PvP.

If I remember correctly then there was a game where you go on PvP with other players to select some hand but I've forgotten the name of it and I'm sure it wasn't poker, I'll reedit this post after looking for it.

[Fredomago]

it's true that poker face can only be experienced in real life. but it can also be done through bet size and game time. Yes, actually this is also tricky
because anyone can bluff. So poker is a game that uses mental as well. most high roll poker they played with strong hand so rare people bluff, It also depends on the player.

Not a lot of thinks about this regarding bluffing in online poker, they think that it's just all about your behavior and your faces so you can't use it when you're online but the betting patterns and how you respond each game could also be a good way to bluff an opponent.

The professional players look at every single aspect of your game to try to see if there is a weakness, even something as simple as how much time you take for your actions is very telling, as if you play quickly sometimes then this could indicate that you have a good hand as you do not have to think too much about your next move, while taking longer could mean that you are not so sure and your hand is not as good, which is why I always try to make my move roughly at the same time so this does not becomes something they can analyze.

There's experienced players who know how to read your movements, not just with poker but with other card games. This knowledge can be applied, those gamblers who observe their opponents and let some bluffs to happen.

Some excited gamblers think that they are lucky, as they keep winning on consecutive rows, not realizing that the gamblers on the table are just warming up.

The real game start when you already attached with the mindsets that you are better than those players on the table. Wreckless minds will lead you to lose every single penny that you earned from those previous games.

[Betwrong]

quite interesting answer
found that because of your link on the last post

Thank you, and thanks for reading.

so, how long would be considered "in the long run"?
~

That's what I wanted to bring to the attention, "in the long run" means thousands and thousands of games, which in reality you will hardly be playing with the same person. There are several articles on the subject, you can read this one for example, to see that saying that poker "is already solved by algorithms" is a bit prematurely.

~
Can you please elaborate more on the last part of your post? Do you mean that the traditional roulette game after some transformation can become a game that depends not only on luck but on skill too?

This could be interesting, but I personally don't see the way of making roulette not purely luck based game.
~

Well, the truth is that I have begun to believe in ability and in choosing the correct option, because on some occasions that occur in roulette we can choose a path, in fact I have been reading a lot about it, when you play with many people you can give opportunities, and in this article that they have on the bitcasino.io blog it is very interesting: https://bitcasino.io/blog/tipshackstricks/guide-to-roulette

Of course, it takes a lot of skill to use strategies appropriately and a bit of daring and expect anything while taking risks.

Thanks for the link. I read it, and, well, sorry but to me it looks like a typical promo article. Something similar might as well be written about the "complexity" of dice game or slots. I mean, there are many options in those games, but what you choose doesn't affect the outcome. All those options are there to bring more fun to the game. And that's not a bad thing. The game should be as entertaining as possible. We are supposed to be playing for fun, after all.

[Lucasgabd]

nice @Betwrong
thanks a lot for the link!

I can imagine these programmers making the program do beat poker players hahaha this is art too

I think the biggest lesson I take out of these cases is that it's really hard for a computer to do something that humans can do well, specially with training: improvising!

have you heard of the flow state?

[KTChampions]

he professional players look at every single aspect of your game to try to see if there is a weakness, even something as simple as how much time you take for your actions is very telling, as if you play quickly sometimes then this could indicate that you have a good hand as you do not have to think too much about your next move, while taking longer could mean that you are not so sure and your hand is not as good, which is why I always try to make my move roughly at the same time so this does not becomes something they can analyze.

If you play online, then this is not the most important part of the statistics that you deprive tracker programs of tracking players   If I'm not mistaken, the main meanings are your responses to a raise at different stages of the game and your raise depending on the strength of your hand. Over the long run, your pattern of behavior is nearly impossible to hide.

[Betwrong]

nice @Betwrong
thanks a lot for the link!

I can imagine these programmers making the program do beat poker players hahaha this is art too

I think the biggest lesson I take out of these cases is that it's really hard for a computer to do something that humans can do well, specially with training: improvising!

That's right. That's where we, humans, are unbeatable, or at least I believe so.

Improvisation isn't always a good thing: try to improvise in chess and you are beaten in no time. But poker is a great field for improvisation.

have you heard of the flow state?

No, not before reading your post.

After a brief research on the subject, I've found these words which I like very much: "Your mindset surrounding the task should be focused on the journey, not the destination." This is exactly what you need to finish ITM in a poker tournament, imo.

[peter0425]

I dont know if this has been suggested but in my own opinion card games can be considered as a good alternative to a poker game.

but poker is also a card game so what does it mean that card game can replaced another card game?

Card games like Tong-its need to have a better calculation better dropping the card which you are thinking and analyzing which is better. So I think this could be similar to the poker game which is it needs analysis per drop and I heard that many places have this kind of game but unfortunately this is illegal in my place.

That is a local game so you cant just tell this here since almost few who posts here know this card game.

i think Black jack is best to alternative to poker as same card game also.

[molsewid]

I dont know if this has been suggested but in my own opinion card games can be considered as a good alternative to a poker game. Card games like Tong-its need to have a better calculation better dropping the card which you are thinking and analyzing which is better. So I think this could be similar to the poker game which is it needs analysis per drop and I heard that many places have this kind of game but unfortunately this is illegal in my place.

I got to know this card game called tong-its this one is a good card game too and actually here in my country we do have a lot of card type of game but Poker is the most played card game in casino so I think there's no alternative to enjoy a card game rather than playing a Poker game. Though we may have a different type of card game that we enjoyed to play with but Poker is the one that used to be known by many and that's mwhy I don't think that there's any better alternative to this game.

[ethereumhunter]

I dont know if this has been suggested but in my own opinion card games can be considered as a good alternative to a poker game. Card games like Tong-its need to have a better calculation better dropping the card which you are thinking and analyzing which is better. So I think this could be similar to the poker game which is it needs analysis per drop and I heard that many places have this kind of game but unfortunately this is illegal in my place.

I got to know this card game called tong-its this one is a good card game too and actually here in my country we do have a lot of card type of game but Poker is the most played card game in casino so I think there's no alternative to enjoy a card game rather than playing a Poker game. Though we may have a different type of card game that we enjoyed to play with but Poker is the one that used to be known by many and that's mwhy I don't think that there's any better alternative to this game.

How about Rummy? That game is interesting to play, but in the crypto gambling site, I can not find the site as maybe I may not dig deeper to search for the sites. But poker is still the people's favorite card game and many pro poker players that we can meet and play together with them. Maybe in the offline casino or traditional, we will see many card games that those people played.

[KTChampions]

I dont know if this has been suggested but in my own opinion card games can be considered as a good alternative to a poker game.

but poker is also a card game so what does it mean that card game can replaced another card game?

Sure. I remember the days when everyone was playing five card poker and then hold'em started to dominate. If something more interesting and attractive is invented, then people will easily accept it. Considering the openness of most of the cards, modern poker is as exciting as possible, but you can always come up with something new.

[passwordnow]

How about Rummy? That game is interesting to play, but in the crypto gambling site, I can not find the site as maybe I may not dig deeper to search for the sites. But poker is still the people's favorite card game and many pro poker players that we can meet and play together with them.

Never heard about this game and that's also probably why you can't find a casino that has it because it seems not that popular at all. But upon searching about it, it's also another card game but has a different mechanics to poker.

Maybe in the offline casino or traditional, we will see many card games that those people played.

Expect that since not all games are covered by online casinos, only those that with demand.

[Silberman]

he professional players look at every single aspect of your game to try to see if there is a weakness, even something as simple as how much time you take for your actions is very telling, as if you play quickly sometimes then this could indicate that you have a good hand as you do not have to think too much about your next move, while taking longer could mean that you are not so sure and your hand is not as good, which is why I always try to make my move roughly at the same time so this does not becomes something they can analyze.

If you play online, then this is not the most important part of the statistics that you deprive tracker programs of tracking players   If I'm not mistaken, the main meanings are your responses to a raise at different stages of the game and your raise depending on the strength of your hand. Over the long run, your pattern of behavior is nearly impossible to hide.

I have seen that tracking software before and casinos in order to avoid abuse have made it so that you cannot mine information from a table in which you are not part of, otherwise everything it would be as simple as turning on your tracker on most tables and then you will have an accurate idea of how each one of your opponent plays and this is not a good thing for the casino as all the profits will concentrate in those players with that technological advantage.

[KTChampions]

If you play online, then this is not the most important part of the statistics that you deprive tracker programs of tracking players   If I'm not mistaken, the main meanings are your responses to a raise at different stages of the game and your raise depending on the strength of your hand. Over the long run, your pattern of behavior is nearly impossible to hide.

I have seen that tracking software before and casinos in order to avoid abuse have made it so that you cannot mine information from a table in which you are not part of, otherwise everything it would be as simple as turning on your tracker on most tables and then you will have an accurate idea of how each one of your opponent plays and this is not a good thing for the casino as all the profits will concentrate in those players with that technological advantage.

I also heard about this, but as far as I understand, these changes did not affect tournaments, so any player who more or less often plays tournaments is transparent enough for analysis. Plus, if a lot of players use these trackers during their game, then in aggregate the program receives no less information than if it monitors each table itself. In my opinion, the ideal solution to this problem is a completely anonymous game where you do not see the nicknames of the players you are playing against and some casinos have created such an option. To be honest, I don’t understand why this practice hasn’t become widespread.
Because of all this nonsense, many people have an extremely negative attitude towards online poker - no one wants to be beaten by a bot or grinder who uses software to play.

[famososMuertos]

..../quote/....:::
The professional players look at every single aspect of your game to try to see if there is a weakness, even something as simple as how much time you take for your actions is very telling, as if you play quickly sometimes then this could indicate that you have a good hand as you do not have to think too much about your next move, while taking longer could mean that you are not so sure and your hand is not as good, which is why I always try to make my move roughly at the same time so this does not becomes something they can analyze.

I don't know if you play but " tell " are very important on game live, and even if it seems like not in online poker they also happen.

But at the point of what you mention there is something called reverse psychology, it also applies there. The truth is quite complex in the simplicity that is seen when if we use as an example those who make large bets and go for pots of hundreds of thousands of dollars, it is an art that you have to master, not to mention that this point that we comment is for so to speak a small part of the skill to play poker.

Tells: An example of this can be found in any YouTube video, but if you want to see it in a bad attempt (Hollywood)   it was not a good attempt in that situation with psychological context you can see Rounders(Movie) in how it reads badly and how you can rectify an tells and then the player knows that he is making a tells that gives weakness to his game and has been exploited so the good player recognizes it and now uses it to his advantage, reverse psychology they say, but in the simplest way the game of cat and mouse.

[ethereumhunter]

How about Rummy? That game is interesting to play, but in the crypto gambling site, I can not find the site as maybe I may not dig deeper to search for the sites. But poker is still the people's favorite card game and many pro poker players that we can meet and play together with them.

Never heard about this game and that's also probably why you can't find a casino that has it because it seems not that popular at all. But upon searching about it, it's also another card game but has a different mechanics to poker.

Maybe in the offline casino or traditional, we will see many card games that those people played.

Expect that since not all games are covered by online casinos, only those that with demand.

Yes, it is a different card game but still, use cards. I think that is just popular in the traditional way and I am sure the name of the game will be different in many countries and the rules will also be different.

But if that is poker, maybe we can just accept the poker game that can not replace by the other card game, including blackjack or the other card game, because poker is poker and does not have an alternative.

[Lucasgabd]

nice @Betwrong
thanks a lot for the link!

I can imagine these programmers making the program do beat poker players hahaha this is art too

I think the biggest lesson I take out of these cases is that it's really hard for a computer to do something that humans can do well, specially with training: improvising!

That's right. That's where we, humans, are unbeatable, or at least I believe so.

Improvisation isn't always a good thing: try to improvise in chess and you are beaten in no time. But poker is a great field for improvisation.

have you heard of the flow state?

No, not before reading your post.

After a brief research on the subject, I've found these words which I like very much: "Your mindset surrounding the task should be focused on the journey, not the destination." This is exactly what you need to finish ITM in a poker tournament, imo.

oh, yes, I'd totally agree that we are better of not improvising in some areas, like heart cirurgies or building bridges.

if you want more information on the fascinating subject of the Flow State I'd recommend going directly to the source, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi was the psychologist that first elaborate this concept, he has a TED talk and some books published
https://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszentmihalyi_flow_the_secret_to_happiness

this is a nice model as well, applies to so many things in life