I think Bitcoin is the biggest bubble and ponzi in the universe or it isn't?

[philipma1957]

if gold could be mined in someones back yard with just a spoon and a coffee filter ($2/ounce) the gold prices would not maintain at $1800.. people would sell it down to something like $6

yep with mining costs being say $900+ 'value' and then some speculative overpricing of an extra <100% brings gold to its 'price'


with bitcoin. in germany with $0.38/kwh electric it cost $72k to mine bitcoin. so if they can buy it cheaper than they can mine it for they will
and if china with $0.04/kwh electric it cost $21k to mine bitcoin. so if they can mine and then sell for higher they will*

its this value meter $21k-$72k that is the window of the bottom limit people would dare sell and the upper limit people would dare buy

yes america has a ~cost of $33k per btc uk has a $42k per btc
meaning if the price moved down below $42k UK miners will slow down on mining and go on a buying frenzy
meaning if the price moved down below $33k US miners will slow down on mining and go on a buying frenzy
 as its far cheaper to buy it than mine it

these factors are all at play in the background giving bitcoin some background underlying value..
50% strong at ~$37k and 100% strong at $21k

yes the prices above $37k can feel speculative/volatile and full of just pure emotion trading. but there is actually underlying value at play hidden below

..
so play the gold backyard spoon or excavator game
if gold cost $900 because it requires expensive excavators and diesel to mine. is golds supply value 0 or somewhere above $900

yes the speculative 'bubble' is whatever is above $900 where a 2x might seem like a ready to burst bubble thats not sustainable where as a 30% profit is reasonable and of accepted value

so if you live in america knowing you could mine for $33k a coin.. or for a little extra you can just buy it and not have the hassle of setting up hardware and facilities and paying bills continuously.. how much premium would you consider as value and worth paying for a btc

*(mining hardware in the 165exa range is a $15k upfront cost spread over a 9 month ROI plus $1.5k per 1cent electric(i done the complicated maths then simplified it for this demo))

Not to mention that you can mine anonymously if you choose to do so.
You can write off many expenses.
You can push the income forward via buying more mining gear for expenses.

Better yet if you have a property that can use solar power as an improvement mining will allow you to make demand.

Lets say you have a dry goods warehouse for many tractor trailers.
It uses very little power. It has a huge roof.
You can put 1 megawatt of panels on the roof. But you use almost no power. Fill a small section with miners create a power bill big enough to allow the 1 megawatt solar array.

an array lasts about 25-30 years. it pays off in 10 years. unless coins go up an you pay off that array in 2 or 3 years.

So basically btc mining ⛏ has many values do to the power usage it can do.
Btw if you mine for five years on that array and move the miners to a new warehouse you could do it again.

this would allow you to have 2  one megawatt arrays that your mining gear helped to create.

[maydna]

we are all late comer now, the price already pass 60K

by the way i want to double my 100 dollar investment in bitcoin this year
hopefully it will become 200 dollar   when bitcoin reach 100K
cheers.....

my 100 dollar bill can buy up to 0.0017 bitcoin at the current price  

its better than late   then never    cheers...

No, you are not late because you still have a chance to make money from crypto. When you are in cryptocurrency, your chance will not just come from bitcoin, but you also have a chance from altcoin, and your chance in altcoin will be bigger because, with so many altcoin lists, you only need to find and research the coin.

It is not easy to say I want to double $100 in bitcoin in the next year and make it to $100k in the next year because no one will know what suppose happen to bitcoin.

Once again, bitcoin is not a rich scheme way, but with having an effort to earn money from bitcoin and doing many things to earn that, you will have the opportunity to make money or double your investment someday.

[dihari]

Obviously no. Because it's not only late comers buying bitcoin nowadays. Also the old adapters is still accumulating btc for their own wealth. You have to read more information about what ponzi is. Seems like you don't understand how it works.

[nicecrypto]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

Thus far it is still in existence and more and more people are beginning to see the value that is why even those that where there when it started and did not join in are joining in now even as the price continues to grow. 

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

THAT IS THE EFFECT OF ADOPTION. Like I said, People have come to understand what Bitcoin was created for and how it can set you free from a lot of burden by other financial institution. A natural law of Economics, Demand. Now every one wants a piece of Bitcoin and it is even more difficult to mine now so you do the maths.   

[goldade]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

It is funny how that many people still don't understand what bitcoin and how it works. Bitcoin isn't some ponzi scheme that promises some quick money. Bitcoin is money itself. Bitcoin is a digital currency that was created to give people control over their own money and finances. With bitcoin, you're your own bank.
Now, when bitcoin was created, its value was very low and only few people believed in it. These people bought back then, holding it till now when it's worth a lot. That's not a ponzi scheme, I'd say that's a reward for their bravery for taking the risk back then.
If you're talking about bitcoin being a bubble, then it's because you don't understand how the market works. You don't understand the law of supply and demand. The price of bitcoin now is as a result of the adoption of bitcoin in the mainstream world over the years.

[Ucy]

and the so call bitcoin exchange outthere     they execute the buy and sell order by matching it and  then cancel it out
before  put it into the blockchain so that it looks like the transaction is in real time but actually it isn't

YOUR TRANSACTION NEVER APPEAR IN THE BLOCKCHAIN

I guess you are referring to centralized exchanges at the top bolded part.
Anyway, transactions are supposed to be real-time, peer-to-peer and decentralized. You can mostly get that on truly decentralized trading exchanges that enable traders with nodes/wallets trade with each other within a decentralized network. Unfortunately, traders trade with each other within  typical centralized exchanges .

[Adreman23]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

What i understand about ponzi scheme is when someone convince you to invest your money and  promised you high returns with no risk like double your money in a short period of time. Bitcoin is not like that because investing in bitcoin is high risk because of price volatility and all the people who understand bitcoin know this.

[decodx]

and the so call bitcoin exchange outthere     they execute the buy and sell order by matching it and  then cancel it out
before  put it into the blockchain so that it looks like the transaction is in real time but actually it isn't

YOUR TRANSACTION NEVER APPEAR IN THE BLOCKCHAIN

Explain, please, what does the internal transactions of a centralized currency exchange have to do with the blockchain transactions?
If you don't know how exchanges work, don't comment. You're just showing the level of your ignorance. No wonder you can't take advantage of this phenomenon.

Based on what you've written in this forum so far, I have just one suggestion: don't overlook the value of basic education.
No brain, no gain. Stay in school.

[bryant.coleman]

The biggest ponzi and bubble in the world is fiat currency without any argument. And it is a bubble which is worth $100 trillion plus as of now (and increasing at a rate of around 20% per year). Compared to fiat, Bitcoin is only worth 1% of that amount. And moreover, unlike fiat Bitcoin can't be created from thin air, as it is protected by the principle of controlled supply. Obviously for proponents of fiat currency, Bitcoin will sound like ponzi.

[wheelz1200]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

Is tesla or amazon stock a ponzi because peoe buying now are buying from people who bought it cheaper?  Thats not the sign of a ponzi.  Yeah its been a pretty crazy rise but maybe this experiment is just working the way it was intended to

[geegaw]

I don't agree with Bitcoin being called a ponzi, because not everything that was profitable for early adapters was called a ponzi.
You should know that ponzi schemes are a form of scam by means of new investors paying old investors. And the ponzi scheme will stop
if there are no more new investors. Whereas Bitcoin is not like that, take a look at how Bitcoin works. After all, Bitcoin is not only
a digital asset that can provide profit, but Bitcoin can also be used as a payment like fiat.

Agree, bitcoin's investment model does not belong to a pyramid scheme, that means it's not a form where a pioneer can make money from newbies, almost everyone's capitalization will change based on their calculation and target choice, some newcomers can still make better money than the old, sometimes the old is outdated and attacked by this market. Although bitcoin is not a ponzi but it is truly a giant bubble because the actual feature is too universal and doesn't stand out but the value always surpasses very high thresholds due to the manipulation of investors

[oHnK]

I don't agree with Bitcoin being called a ponzi, because not everything that was profitable for early adapters was called a ponzi.
You should know that ponzi schemes are a form of scam by means of new investors paying old investors. And the ponzi scheme will stop
if there are no more new investors. Whereas Bitcoin is not like that, take a look at how Bitcoin works. After all, Bitcoin is not only
a digital asset that can provide profit, but Bitcoin can also be used as a payment like fiat.

Agree, bitcoin's investment model does not belong to a pyramid scheme, that means it's not a form where a pioneer can make money from newbies, almost everyone's capitalization will change based on their calculation and target choice, some newcomers can still make better money than the old, sometimes the old is outdated and attacked by this market. Although bitcoin is not a ponzi but it is truly a giant bubble because the actual feature is too universal and doesn't stand out but the value always surpasses very high thresholds due to the manipulation of investors

I noticed that this thread was just a clickbait for the reader to see, and sadly whatever it contained was just a little bit of wild opinion.  If the OP says BTC is only a ponzi scheme, maybe the OP reads less and needs more education so that the post is better.  Include a data-based opinion so that whatever is said can still be considered.  If the OP thinks all of these are ponzi then the worst ponzi schemes are the fiat you are currently using.  The fiat equivalent of BTC is a medium of exchange for all transactions.  Where's the ponzi scheme?

[Sterbens]

ponzi? from the definition it is very much different from the current state of bitcoin, ponzi will simply make the roots underneath hurt. whereas in bitcoin that is not the case, either as a form of appreciation for a prize when a miner hangs out with some friends until you get a bonus. You have to know in a Ponzi scheme there are parties who are disadvantaged, while in bitcoin, whether you are under the root, you will know how big the potential is in the future.


Think about it, that there is a red line, the definition of bitcoin mining with a Ponzi scheme that causes losses to many parties.

[arwin100]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

Feel pity to you since you still think about this way and imagine how much profit you lost for thinking negative about bitcoin, you should do more research about it since this is not made as ponzi type schemes.

Also I don't know if you really mean this since I have thoughs that you want to promote something that's why you are saying this to us right now.

[bosede1]

I won't go with the word Ponzi because it is not a Ponzi which is meant to be a game in which you put money and some people somewhere promise to double it up and mostly crashed after a while. Bitcoin is a real investment and not a game is for a serious-minded person.  For the bubble, I will disagree with it also because bitcoin is volatile in nature.

[iamsheikhadil]

You see, it's like a miracle but not a miracle but a fact the thing is, it's not ponzi scheme, it's very much kind of demand vs supply, as Bitcoin gets more popular and more investors buying in because of fear of missing off, then the price increase is hugely justified if it was a ponzi scheme, you would have seen huge number of people are leaving at the same rate at which people are buying in, but most of early investors or traders are still holding, making it something valuable and something to hold onto

[palle11]

We can keep hearing this till the next 50 years and bitcoin will keep having relevance in our lives. The bubble misunderstanding has been on ever since the beginning and I don't expect it will go away. For ponzi scheme which is more fraud and deceit, bitcoin is nothing like any of such. Bitcoin is not marketing of any product like the ponzi.

[Cling18]

I think it would be better if you'll know what Ponzi is first. Bitcoin has passed all the tests of time and I don't see any reason to doubt it. Its volatility is a part of its character but things will still depend on how we deal with it. Failing in trading or investing shouldn't be the reason for us to accuse Bitcoin of fraud. You better know how it really works before saying bad things against it.

[Silberman]

why I call it a ponzi     because late comers pay for the early adapters with their cost of bitcoin is almost nothing
in early days of bitcoin people just mine it for fun........

why I call it a bubble    have you ever seen any investment can start with almost nothing and went up all the way to over 60,000 dollar per coin  in a decade time?

even if you count it from $1 per coin  to over $60,000   that is over 6,000,000% return in investment 


what do you think?

may be it is just my silly thought....

please comment.    thank you.

You are in a bitcoin forum, and not only you are in one bitcoin forum you are in the one bitcoin forum, the one created by satoshi, so it is obvious that you are going to face a lot of criticism about this, about your first point if that is what it means to be a Ponzi for you well then every single investment that has ever been made qualifies as a Ponzi, I suggest to you that you look at the meaning of the term before you decide unilaterally what is and what is not a Ponzi, then you say that bitcoin is a bubble and while there is no doubt that sometimes the price of bitcoin can be in a bubble bitcoin itself is not a bubble which is a big difference.

[nak02]

Better study first before we topic about this ponzi scheme about bitcoins. This coin has many rough battle encountered to bloom. Yes it is a bubble, time to time his price is unpredictable and we don't know who's controlling it about the price and the circulating supply is unknown because some of the bitcoins has been forget their addresses in blockchain.