The European Super League ( ESL) thread moved to off-topic why?

[Igebotz]

Can someone explained why this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5331642.0  with over 700+ views and 120+ replies  moved to off topic yesterday while the European Super League Is still not totally abandoned yet? If you are against the league as a moderator does not give the right to move a gambling thread to off-topic.

I need explanation.

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[ChuckBuck]

I need explanation.

I believe it was turned off-topic because you discussed it incorrectly. If it is in the gambling discussion section, you have to discuss matches, win rates, odds, how to bet, which team to bet on. In short, everything has to do with betting, but your topic is quite simple, it only discusses sports. You know, this is not a sports forum, I have no objections when the subject is moved. Sometimes a topic gets a lot of attention, but it's still off-topic.

This is an open thread to discuss the proposed European Super League, News, Trends, Opinions, Latest gists.

[Pmalek]

@ChuckBuck
That could be the reason. The mod who moved it might have considered it to be an information thread about the league, its founders, and those opposing the project. But if we started looking at all the threads in the gambling board in that way, a lot of the content written in the threads concerning the UEFA CL, Italian Serie A, EPL, etc., would either be deleted or moved to off topic. Instead of betting, many of the posts talk about results, who scored the goals, transfer news, VAR decisions, and so on.   

[Rikafip]

I believe it was turned off-topic because you discussed it incorrectly. If it is in the gambling discussion section, you have to discuss matches, win rates, odds, how to bet, which team to bet on. In short, everything has to do with betting, but your topic is quite simple, it only discusses sports. You know, this is not a sports forum, I have no objections when the subject is moved. Sometimes a topic gets a lot of attention, but it's still off-topic.

That explanation would make sense if there is no other Super League themed threads in the Gambling Dicussion board, namely European Super League? made back in October 2020 and it's still there. From what I could see, it's not any different than the thread started by @igehhh.

My guess is that it's simply moved from there as by the looks of it, it won't be possible to bet on anything related to SuperLeague in the foreseeable future, but still it kinda fits more to Gambling Discussion thread where all other sports discussions are than in off-topic where threads go to die.

[Pmalek]

My guess is that it's simply moved from there as by the looks of it, it won't be possible to bet on anything related to SuperLeague in the foreseeable future, but still it kinda fits more to Gambling Discussion thread where all other sports discussions are than in off-topic where threads go to die.

To be completely fair, the idea of the Super League isn't dead. The project hasn't vanished, it has just been put on hold for now because no one appreciated what the Top clubs tried to do. Perez said a few days ago that no club has officially asked to have their contract with the league terminated. Some more recent news suggests that the league is now working on changing the model that doesn't guarantee that the participants can't be relegated.

Nevertheless, I still see it more fitting in the Gambling boards than off-topic which is like a secondary garbage bin. 

[Igebotz]

I believe it was turned off-topic because you discussed it incorrectly. If it is in the gambling discussion section, you have to discuss matches, win rates, odds, how to bet, which team to bet on. In short, everything has to do with betting

How do you discuss about matches without talking about News of the clubs involved in the matches you wish to bet on?. How do you make bets If you don't listen to people opinions? How do you know the win rates of a club if you are not aware of the Latest news, Trends of the clubs involved.

but your topic is quite simple, it only discusses sports. You know, this is not a sports forum

That's why the Gambling and Discussion board was created for sports and gambling activities and my thread falls into one of them and can't be categorised as off-topic.

[Rikafip]

To be completely fair, the idea of the Super League isn't dead. The project hasn't vanished, it has just been put on hold for now because no one appreciated what the Top clubs tried to do. Perez said a few days ago that no club has officially asked to have their contract with the league terminated. Some more recent news suggests that the league is now working on changing the model that doesn't guarantee that the participants can't be relegated.

Yeah I agree with that, that idea is not dead yet, unfortunately. But we do now that Perez is a liar and I don't believe a single thing he says. Like when he said that Bayern, BVB and PSG were not invited at all, which was later revealed to be nothing but a lie.

Nevertheless, I still see it more fitting in the Gambling boards than off-topic which is like a secondary garbage bin. 

That's for sure. If you remove Super League thread because no one is talking about betting, then you gonna have to remove bunch of other topics from that board too.

[dkbit98]

I need explanation.

How many European Super League topics do we really need to have in forum and how many of them have been created before?
I heard some of my local members created their own ESL forked topics that was also moved to off-topic so you are not the only one.
You created your topic only few days ago, there are already seven pages of mostly empty talk and ESL project is now almost dead after all English clubs decided to refuse to continue with their stupid plans.
Gambling section (and others) needs to see some major changes and bunch of topics should to be moved to off-topic, but I don't think your topic was breaking rules per se.

That's why the Gambling and Discussion board was created for sports and gambling activities and my thread falls into one of them and can't be categorised as off-topic.

This is topic desciption:

Discussion of sports games and other gambling-related topics which are separate from games and services themselves.

Did anyone bet or talked about betting on ESL?

[Rikafip]

Gambling section (and others) needs to see some major changes and bunch of topics should to be moved to off-topic.

Or even better made a child board where people can talk about sports in general, rather than sending them to offtopic where we know that there won't be much interest due at least one reason: majority of signature campaigns, posts there are not counted towards weekly quota, therefore people will be less inclined to post there. That's how it is, whether we like it or not. People tend to post where their posts are counted for.

Did anyone bet or talked about betting on ESL?

Yeah I guess that's the probably the main reason why that thread has been moved, but I am sure that there are many other threads where people are talking about sport in general and not about betting on specific events, odds etc and are still there. Maybe it's time for some spring cleaning on that board.

[Igebotz]

The moderator responsible for the awful mistake need to look at this content and tell why a sports discussion thread was moved to non-related sports board when it's clearly stated that the board was created for such topic.

Nevertheless, I still see it more fitting in the Gambling boards than off-topic which is like a secondary garbage bin.  

That's for sure. If you remove Super League thread because no one is talking about betting, then you gonna have to remove bunch of other topics from that board too.

One of the worse decision I've seen so far this year on the forum, I'm still waiting for the moderator responsible to make the right decision or give he/her reasons why it was moved

[Daniel91]

I also started a discussion about the Super League in that section and my topic was also moved to offtopic.
Of course I wasn't exactly happy about it but it's a decision of the forum moderator, and I respect it.
I guess too many topics with similar or the same content were opened the same day and that was a major problem for the moderator.
It’s not something I’d want to waste time on for further discussions.
I locked my super league topic in the offtopic, deleted some of my posts and forgot about it.
Life goes on and in a few days and weeks I won't even remember it anymore.

[GeorgeJohn]

Let us be sincere to this because some people is getting this wrong, if topic created by a forum user fall into off topic, I think it should be immediately or after a day a moderator can move it to off-topic, it's very painful that topic created  since five (5) days now with almost seven (7) pages is been moved to an off topic, even though is off topic it should be noted so fast and move to anywhere moderator wishes to send it, I know vividly that is functions of moderators to regulate Post's, and address or direct post to the appropriate place but they should be no delay to move such to avoid complains or contradiction of any op, and this should be lesson to everybody because I never taught that post that lasted for five days (5) can be moved again to another board by a moderators.

[Mistafreeze]

Who’s more powerful? The players, Fans or Clubs
Corruption and Sports
An obvious rigging of Sports
European Super League? (dead thread)
All these threads are classified as gambling and discussion but one of the most active sports thread ⚽ The European Super League ( ESL) was moved to off-topic for no reason

Well this can't be clarified as off-topic either maybe the moderator should delete the thread if he can not revise the mistake it will be fair enough.

[mprep]

The Gambling discussion board is meant for topics that have a somewhat direct relationship with gambling (e.g. odds, predictions, speculation on outcomes or discussions about how certain events affect those outcomes, etc.) but which aren't about specific services. Just to double check, I've messaged theymos to make sure my understanding of the board's purpose wasn't off. Here's the brief conversation in full:

Hey,

just wanted to ask about what sort of threads belong in the Gambling discussion board as opposed to Off-topic. Do discussions about sports (ones that don't involve predicting or speculating about the outcomes of matches / tournaments or discussion of sports betting games / strategies) belong in the Gambling discussion boards? A few examples:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5331986.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5285284.0

Also, asking in advance, would you be fine with me quoting your answer publicly?

They're not talking about gambling much at all, so Gambling Discussion is not the correct board. If the main focus of the discussion was how the league thing affected or related to gambling, then it could stay. I moved both of those to Politics & Society because this particular issue and the way those topics are framed seems to have a large political/societal component, though Off-Topic would be almost equally appropriate, and in most other cases of "non-gambling sports discussion", Off-Topic would be most correct.

Also, asking in advance, would you be fine with me quoting your answer publicly?

Go ahead.

Thanks.

If you see any topics in Gambling discussion that don't have a clear relation to gambling, feel free to use the "Report to Moderator" link on the bottom right side of the offending post to notify the staff team.

Who’s more powerful? The players, Fans or Clubs
Corruption and Sports
An obvious rigging of Sports
European Super League? (dead thread)
All these threads are classified as gambling and discussion but one of the most active sports thread ⚽ The European Super League ( ESL) was moved to off-topic for no reason

Well this can't be clarified as off-topic either maybe the moderator should delete the thread if he can not revise the mistake it will be fair enough.

Since I've linked 2 of the threads in my PM to theymos, he already moved those to Politics and Society (though according to him, Off-topic would be fine as well). The other 2 seem to actually relate to gambling (match fixing) so they belong in Gambling discussion.

[ChuckBuck]

it won't be possible to bet on anything related to SuperLeague in the foreseeable future

Nevertheless, I still see it more fitting in the Gambling boards than off-topic which is like a secondary garbage bin. 

It is quite surprising that this topic continues to be discussed  I thought my answer was plausible in this context. I'm not mod and I don't know the real reason, but looking at what happened right now, I'm pretty sure it was the most sensible reason.
Rikafip's explanation seems right to the heart of the matter.
To be honest, it is quite regrettable that such a vibrant topic has been turned into the off-topic

[Igebotz]

The Gambling discussion board is meant for topics that have a somewhat direct relationship with gambling (e.g. odds, predictions, speculation on outcomes or discussions about how certain events affect those outcomes, etc.) but which aren't about specific services. Just to double check, I've messaged theymos to make sure my understanding of the board's purpose wasn't off.

A pity such good conversations and updates all went to dump board I'm just wondering what would happen when the European Super League is approved and adopted by bookmakers.

Thread locked till the ESL is approved.

[logfiles]

A pity such good conversations and updates all went to dump board I'm just wondering what would happen when the European Super League is approved and adopted by bookmakers.

Thread locked till the ESL is approved.

Too late locking the thread, don't you think?

My point is that if the thread gets moved to the Off topic board, it doesn't mean people shouldn't add any new input or updates to it. It's just the Off topic board, not trashcan or archival board  

[Igebotz]

Too late locking the thread, don't you think?

My point is that if the thread gets moved to the Off-topic board, it doesn't mean people shouldn't add any new input or updates to it. It's just the Off-topic board, not trashcan or archival board 

Off-topic users cannot add any value to my thread I rader lock it than see it ruined, nothing good ever comes out of the Off-topic board, I'll unlock the thread and PM the moderator when the ESL is up and approved. For now, it remains locked.

[ChuckBuck]

It's just the Off topic board, not trashcan or archival board  

But it certainly won't get any further attention, even those who commented there will see if they should continue there. As we all know, the posts there don't count for any signature campaigns. Undeniably, few people want to write without receiving anything. Soon, no one will comment there anymore  

nothing good ever comes out of the Off-topic board

Why not? Because it doesn't count for signature campaigns? Goodness should not be defined this way

[LTU_btc]

If we look at content of some topics in Gambling discussion boards, there is lot of topics where gambling isn't main subject. And topic about European Super League isn't exception. In topics about EPL, Champions league and etc people discuss about match results, news, transfers and etc. Gambling is just part of discussion, but probably not the main one. People not discuss strictly just about gambling.
Personally, I'm against ESL, but I don't mind that there is thread about it. But the main problem that there was no gambling related discussion in this topic at all.