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Author Topic: Mixing your Bitcoin might become illegal in the future  (Read 851 times)
teosanru
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May 09, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
 #61

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
This is the first thing that would and I somewhere feel should happen. Believe it or not Cryptocurrency mixers really promote money laundering. Some would argue that it helps in decentralisation and anonymity but with this level of widespread usage of Cryptos, anonymity will be sacrificed to some extent to maintain traceability. Mixers hamper this great feature that Cryptocurrency offers to us. Moreover recent exchange hacks and extortions have also used these Crypto mixers to get past the traceability of authorities. So very soon crypto mixers can be banned completely in many countries if cryptos have to stay.

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May 09, 2021, 09:52:06 PM
 #62

Governments want to control, crypto is the way of avoiding it and having some privacy. However, everyone knows that Bitcoin transactions can be traceable and the only way to avoid it is to either create a large number of crypto wallets, don't connect them, use different exchanges, etc. or, the more efficient way - use mixing services.
Simply, the govs want to keep the control they have at the moment, so they'll have to enforce a ban on such services.
I think it's very much a possibility. And not only in countries like Russia, but the US as well, because all this crypto-friendly stuff is bs, they only want us to believe we've gained some freedom here, while the truth is quite different. Don't want to sound paranoid, but it's just the way things are.
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May 10, 2021, 01:21:21 AM
 #63

Yes from start we are not sure that bitcoin will play big role in our business. Bitcoin has been a scary project for us to hold because of different type of government news and social media effects. Sometimes we sell in panic and the buy at high prices. With more people and organizations taking part in bitcoin now it's looking good future in bitcoin now and every government should make some regulation to understand this mechanism.
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May 10, 2021, 07:55:03 AM
 #64

The more governments poke their noses into this topic and try to regulate it with strict restrictive measures, the stronger the demand for anonymous coins that cannot be tracked at all will be. This is logical and I think that this will not happen. Smart people first thoroughly study the issue before making any decisions, especially at such a high level. On the other hand, time passes and while someone is thinking, who else is acting at this time. I do not know how it will be, but I think that governments should act carefully and gently.
Even if the government doesn't, I am sure that there will still be people that are going to build a more anonymous coin than the previous. I think that mixing should be regulated because it is a really useful tool for criminal purposes and I think that if something is more useful to do crimes then that thing shouldn't even exist in the first place.
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May 10, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
 #65

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
this is already expected since then , I might not say that Mixing is not a good business because this helps people a lot .
But the reality speaks , because abuse from syndicates and criminals are into crypto mixing.

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May 10, 2021, 09:21:30 AM
 #66

I don't think that this will come any time soon , Mixing company is also being very helpful and we don't know if some government is also using Mixing company for their own country's benefit?

The more governments poke their noses into this topic and try to regulate it with strict restrictive measures, the stronger the demand for anonymous coins that cannot be tracked at all will be. This is logical and I think that this will not happen. Smart people first thoroughly study the issue before making any decisions, especially at such a high level. On the other hand, time passes and while someone is thinking, who else is acting at this time. I do not know how it will be, but I think that governments should act carefully and gently.
Reality talks lol.

People wants privacy and Hope that government will not deny this.

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May 10, 2021, 12:13:46 PM
 #67

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

What will they do about decentralized trading?
Or, for example, I can exchange Bitcoin for RenBTC token, and then exchange RenBTC for Ethereum
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May 10, 2021, 12:49:38 PM
 #68

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds.
Yeah, I do something similar to this with fiat too by withdrawing cash from my bank and preferring to pay in cash in order not to have a traceable history of my funds. Yes, I do this with usual stuff such as grocery shopping. And no, I don't have cannabis or LSD in my grocery store.

Cash is the best mixer you can get because although bills are numbered, nobody writes down the numbers when you withdraw from an ATM or when they pay you your wage.
Bills are not connected with your real life ID.

I do the same when I transact. I buy coins with cash and sell them for cash. Then I spend cash in stores. I barely have any money in the bank and my transaction history is non-existent.

Even if mixing becomes illegal in 1 country it will never be illegal worldwide. Mixers will move from one country to another and so will the exchanges.



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May 10, 2021, 01:05:17 PM
 #69

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

I don't really get any of the governments that does crack down on mixers. Let's say they do, well then just switch over to Monero and period. It is a race that governments can't win. With the technologies advancing on a daily basis I don't how they are ever going to be able to stop anonymous transactions from happening.
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May 10, 2021, 01:31:50 PM
 #70

If I were the team who were able to found the mixing platform, I think it would be wiser if I kept it a secret, speak with the whales one by one and provide them a private service that will help them with their Bitcoins.

Publishing this actually ruined their very good system as it as now getting a lot of bad impressions and a lot of eyes seeing them as something that has to be stopped.

The only worry the government have with these mixers is that, if this went to a bad hand, this would be very dangerous and it would be hard for them to control the mass.

Finance has been established to control the resources of everyone and of course manipulate it. Having these mixers existence is like, someone is trying to steal some of their market shares that they used to have solo.

Money Laundering would always be there, mixer isn’t a new thing and it is as good as great and talented accountants. So I think this will still be kept existing but will soon become private. Possibly that governments will be the one who would host the services like this soon.
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May 10, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
 #71

...

Money Laundering would always be there, mixer isn’t a new thing and it is as good as great and talented accountants. So I think this will still be kept existing but will soon become private. Possibly that governments will be the one who would host the services like this soon.
And if that be going to happen, then it means that the Government will support laundering as you have said? Coz I don't believe that all people who use mixing services are to find guilty of such illegality and I don't think this could get the interest of the authorities to stop this. They just wanted to keep it untraceable, that is the main reason why using it.

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May 10, 2021, 03:10:00 PM
 #72

humans will always do everything so that they can benefit, those who are greedy will mix in bitcoin for money laundering so that their actions are not known by the police.
if the police already know that many money laundering occurs in bitcoin, it will be difficult for bitcoin to develop because the government will monitor the movement of bitcoin so that no more criminal acts occur in bitcoin.
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May 10, 2021, 05:51:20 PM
 #73

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable
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May 10, 2021, 08:25:07 PM
 #74

Money Laundering would always be there,

If only most countries treated Bitcoin like money. You can't do money laundering if you're mixing something that is not money Cheesy

With money it's much easier to stop you from doing something illegal, but bitcoin is global in the way that it functions in the same form all around the world. Even if most countries ban mixers there will be a place where they can legally function, even if its a third world country.



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May 10, 2021, 09:56:51 PM
 #75

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
As we know governments have always been against this and that is because they want to know every single thing you are doing with your money and they do not like people making an effort of hiding this.

However they are making a false equivalence, they are trying to make it seem as if every single person that is doing that is a criminal and as such they are tying to make the act of mixing your coins illegal, but there are many people that simply do it because they do not want private companies and governments using chain analysis to try to figure out what they are doing with their coins.

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May 10, 2021, 10:30:26 PM
 #76

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable

this is why a lot of governments don't like the mixer services. right now, they have no way of extracting more details from their clients so some prefer to shut them down completely. maybe, in the future, if they found a way how to regulate them in such a way they can prove something of ownership in a case to case basis, maybe mixers will thrive. but right now, their one hope is to do business under jurisdictions that are loose with this kind of restriction, which i believe, there's always be a country or area that will willingly accept this kind of business

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May 11, 2021, 02:23:40 AM
 #77

Never really liked mixers that much, until I realize that it has some good purposes, for example, how do you handle a situation where someone with lots of bitcoins has his/her coin unfairly blacklisted? I think mixer could help in this case.
 I just hope future mixers would be able to  link the data of mixed coins, which should be immutable, to customers unique ID(decentralized/privacy-friendly ID) . The customers can always provide the data when required by the court or law enforcement agencies.
The data has to be Hidden/Private (accessible only to their owners/customers), and Immutable

this is why a lot of governments don't like the mixer services. right now, they have no way of extracting more details from their clients so some prefer to shut them down completely. maybe, in the future, if they found a way how to regulate them in such a way they can prove something of ownership in a case to case basis, maybe mixers will thrive. but right now, their one hope is to do business under jurisdictions that are loose with this kind of restriction, which i believe, there's always be a country or area that will willingly accept this kind of business

Mixers are fully centralized correct? Could the person operating the mixing service steal the coins at anytime or is there a way for the guys using the mixer to have a layer of security for themselves?
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May 11, 2021, 04:10:56 AM
 #78

What will they do about decentralized trading?
Or, for example, I can exchange Bitcoin for RenBTC token, and then exchange RenBTC for Ethereum
Decentralized Tokenized BTC                           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288914
Decentralized bitcoin trading                           
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290331
About "decentralized trading"? Absolutely nothing.
About trading using "centralized tokens"? A lot of things.
For example they could also enforce the same restrictions on the other token including the token itself and the Ether tokens. They can also force the owners of the centralized token or the centralized platform (in this case the ethereum foundation) to freeze or reverse a transaction they deem "illegal" and they would have no choice but to obey.

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May 11, 2021, 06:47:09 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #79

Let's look at it like this.

Money laundering will always be illegal, regardless of fiat or crypto. You're trying to hide dirty money, that's always a crime today in the past and in the future.

But mixing Bitcoin does not equal money laundering and the mere activity of going into a business and making your money trail more private? That can't ever be a crime. Otherwise our regular use of fiat is wrong.

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May 12, 2021, 04:51:51 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #80

Let's look at it like this.

Money laundering will always be illegal, regardless of fiat or crypto. You're trying to hide dirty money, that's always a crime today in the past and in the future.

But mixing Bitcoin does not equal money laundering and the mere activity of going into a business and making your money trail more private? That can't ever be a crime. Otherwise our regular use of fiat is wrong.

It is even understandable that you don't want anyone else to know with whom you are doing business or with whom you are in touch. If you see a doctor and it would be possible to pay with Bitcoin on day, nobody wants that to be stored in the blockchain available for anyone to see and identify you. Even if you just buy a pack of cigarettes or alcohol, there is no point why anyone should be able to fully identify and analyze your behavior.
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