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Author Topic: Mixing your Bitcoin might become illegal in the future  (Read 851 times)
Abiky (OP)
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May 07, 2021, 07:25:35 PM
 #1

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

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May 07, 2021, 08:25:40 PM
 #2

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. While the medium (Bitcoin) is new, this is the very definition of money laundering. I don't know of a single good reason to use a mixing service, other than to try to hide ill gotten gains, although I'm sure someone will come up with an excuse or two. If the government actually cared enough to look that deeply into peoples finances, it is likely they would come to the same conclusion already, however the vast majority of people using these services are doing it with such small amounts that they will probably get ignored. They'll also be ignored, because unless they are moving very large sums around and converting them into fiat, the resources required to piece together such criminal actions will not be worth it to the taxman. It is very likely these sites are already covered by existing anti-money laundering laws, however they can reside in internet grey areas and likely have servers in countries that are a bit more lenient when it comes to finances.

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May 07, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
Merited by LoyceV (20), vapourminer (1), LoyceMobile (1), Poker Player (1)
 #3

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds.
Yeah, I do something similar to this with fiat too by withdrawing cash from my bank and preferring to pay in cash in order not to have a traceable history of my funds. Yes, I do this with usual stuff such as grocery shopping. And no, I don't have cannabis or LSD in my grocery store.

While the medium (Bitcoin) is new, this is the very definition of money laundering. I don't know of a single good reason to use a mixing service, other than to try to hide ill gotten gains, although I'm sure someone will come up with an excuse or two.
One very simple "excuse", although it's just a very solid reason: I think we have a human right to privacy and the government doesn't need to know which kind of toilet paper or condoms I like?

If the government actually cared enough to look that deeply into peoples finances, it is likely they would come to the same conclusion already, however the vast majority of people using these services are doing it with such small amounts that they will probably get ignored.
Governments are definitely trying to be as intrusive as possible. They've tried breaking BTC or Monero's code from a privacy point of view, which is alarming in my opinion. This "AML" and "Against terrorism funding" is an excuse - not my reason for using mixers. They're using money laundering and terrorism as an excuse to cancel one of the fundamental human rights I currently supposedly have, although I definitely do not have anything to do with any of those two. Had I been a suspect, it would've been something and I wouldn't have cared if they wanted to find out whether I really am a criminal or not. But considering me a suspect for using mixers and perhaps considering us all suspects for using crypto or mixers from the start is plain stupid.
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May 07, 2021, 10:17:22 PM
 #4

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide. We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity. I've seen that some countries have taken action against Bitcoin mixing services with the excuse that they're used for money laundering and terrorist financing. Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations, they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley

This might be a possibility, but there isn't a consensus about this yet. Yes, FATF needs to know the source of the money but there needs to be privacy as well. I honestly find the that whole public blockchain is problematic in the first place and we should have gone towards privacy in the first place.

But that doesn't mean that we should use privacy to avoid regulations. Nor it should be build for that in mind.
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May 07, 2021, 10:21:25 PM
 #5

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

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May 07, 2021, 10:43:01 PM
 #6

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
It is not a huge surprise that the government will ban any services that would help in maintaining your privacy and mixing services are a target for a long time and some of the BTCitcoin mixers were either forced to shut down (Bestmixer) and some ceased their operation due to fear of retaliation by the government (BitMixer) and we know about cases where the mixers were fined huge amounts (Helix, Coin Ninja).

So it is not a big surprise that  BTCitcoin or any mixing would become illegal in the future and they might even force the exchanges to reject mixed coins and that is the case with privacy coins as well, when legalization kicks in they will force the exchanges to remove privacy coins from their exchanges and we have already seen that initiative in some the exchanges registered in the US.

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May 07, 2021, 10:46:19 PM
 #7

Since bitcoin is a highly decentralized currency and the government is trying to regulate its activities, so bitcoin mixing will not survive in the system since it helps to hide the identity of the user by mixing the source of Bitcoin with others making the original identity unknown. The government will not permit such services since it aids money laundering.

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May 07, 2021, 11:11:17 PM
 #8

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same?
It is not a huge surprise that the government will ban any services that would help in maintaining your privacy and mixing services are a target for a long time and some of the BTCitcoin mixers were either forced to shut down (Bestmixer) and some ceased their operation due to fear of retaliation by the government (BitMixer) and we know about cases where the mixers were fined huge amounts (Helix, Coin Ninja).

So it is not a big surprise that  BTCitcoin or any mixing would become illegal in the future and they might even force the exchanges to reject mixed coins and that is the case with privacy coins as well, when legalization kicks in they will force the exchanges to remove privacy coins from their exchanges and we have already seen that initiative in some the exchanges registered in the US.

What traders can do if that will indeed happen is to just exchange their coins to another alt that is more friendly from the government's eyes. And then send it to their wallet. So the address is coming from the exchange itself and not from their original address. I believe there are other ways to preserve your privacy other than using mixers. Because sooner or later, these mixing services will be tagged as negative by regulatory bodies.
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May 08, 2021, 01:07:47 AM
 #9

China has already acknowledged Bitcoin, although only as an investment alternative. I'm not so sure if the US or the UK are really friendly toward Bitcoin. It is one thing to just allow it because you cannot stop it anyway and quite another to acknowledge its role and potentials.

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.

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May 08, 2021, 02:52:44 AM
 #10

If governments can not shut down all mixers or tumblers, people will use it.

It's your key, it's your bitcoin and you will be able to control your bitcoin transactions. People are fee to use Coin Join transactions and they can trade peer-to-peer or use truly DEX.

Governments can enforce stricter regulations on coin mixing and require exchanges to follow their rules. Exchanges can lock, ban, freeze accounts that have Bitcoin from mixing process.

People can use Bitcoin from mixers, make peer to peer trade to get fiat, and use fiat to buy altcoins. Will governments be able to trace thousand of altcoins and altcoin transactions too? I believe they will out of resources to do that.

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May 08, 2021, 03:27:38 AM
 #11

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.
@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

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May 08, 2021, 03:49:21 AM
 #12



I believe that one of the foundations of Bitcoin is actually transparency and that is why all transactions ever since the beginning of this coin can be viewed by anybody anytime anywhere there is access to internet. I mean, Satoshi Nakamoto never imagined that Bitcoin should be used by anybody to hide something, much more a tool for money laundering or ill-gotten wealth. This is the reason why already heard of criminals getting convictions as they used Bitcoin for transactions - it is all in there in the blockchain for all to see. When we have nothing to hide there is no need to use mixer to disguise the transaction and this is one big issue with governments. Yes, there is that big possibility that mixing services can be rendered to be illegal and unacceptable. And many mixing service organizations had been shut down by governments on the basis of violating money laundering laws and regulations.

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May 08, 2021, 03:57:26 AM
 #13

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.
I wonder if in your country there are people who use bitcoins arrested aren't they exchanging bitcoins for fiat then how can the police find people who have bitcoins?
I think all countries ban bitcoin too but there hasn't been a case of bitcoin users being arrested.
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May 08, 2021, 04:07:37 AM
 #14

I think governments are going to have a hard time. They can outlaw mixers just like they can outlaw Bitcoin if they want to, but it's another matter if they can make them disappear, which is going to be almost impossible.

There is another post along these lines too, in which a mining pool only accepts transactions from "clean" addresses, unsuccessfully by the looks of it:

MARA Pool mined its first 'clean' block today.

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May 08, 2021, 04:08:49 AM
 #15

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.
@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

This will always be a cat and mouse game. Some will probably get caught and some will not. The same goes with the traditional form of money laundry which also involves popular banking institutions. It was made illegal but it is still going on strong until now.

Bitcoin mixing may not necessarily mean money laundering but if it is a process which obliterates the tracks of the funds, it will automatically be suspicious in the eyes of the authorities. If a certain tool wipes out how money is obtained or what kind of transaction it came from, it already raises a flag; it triggers an alarm. If it appears to be an obstruction of law enforcement, then expect that the authorities won't be friendly toward it.

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May 08, 2021, 04:26:51 AM
 #16

I don't know if it's even necessary to ban mixers. Money laundering is already illegal and they in the US they really don't need very much evidence to charge you with this. If their intent is to keep track of how people use their money then they will just undermine your privacy by making KYC/AML laws even stricter. We are already seeing in Europe that you need to verify your identity to make online purchases.

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May 08, 2021, 04:35:45 AM
 #17

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide.
There is nothing recent about the (small) popularity of bitcoin and the attention they are giving bitcoin.

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We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity.
There is no difference between the attitude of any of these governments towards bitcoin, all US, UK, China, Russia and even to some extent India are the same when it comes to bitcoin. They aren't banning it but they don't like it either.

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Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations,
You do realize that KYC is in direct contradiction with mixing, right? That means none of them have anything remotely related to AML/KYC otherwise they wouldn't be called a mixer!

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they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.
With that logic banking system must be shut down yesterday since criminals have been using them to launder their money for decades.

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Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
Anything centralized can and will be shut down eventually as long as they don't bend to the stupid law and more importantly not pay taxes. That is why more decentralized way of doing everything is being introduced. Such as bitcoin instead of using corrupt banks, DEX instead of CEX, decentralized marketplace instead of centralized, decentralized mixing (eg.  coinjoin) instead of centralized ones,...

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May 08, 2021, 04:53:25 AM
 #18

The darkweb is being used for illegal activities.Is the darkweb shutdown by any government?
The Tor browser and Tails OS are the main tools used to access the darkweb.
Are Tor browser and Tails OS shut down by any government?
The question here is HOW the governments can shut down Bitcoin mixing services?Is this even possible?
I don't see how any government in the world can effectively shut down all BTC tumblers,that are used by it's citizens.


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May 08, 2021, 04:58:09 AM
 #19

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

I hope is not happen cause im work in this industry maybe india will change his mind if other big country starting adopting crypto as investment or other things

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May 08, 2021, 05:33:03 AM
 #20

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Smiley
It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

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