Fighting the FUD of PoW versus Po(Insert favorite word here)!!

[slaman29]

Yes, there have been multiple instances of these masternode and PoS coins launching and disappearing. As you said, the one to watch out for is Ethereum going to PoS. I see very little about how it has planned for decentralization. Even if that works as a smart-contract platform, it'll only be because the people using it are familiar with BTC.

Yes! I can definitely say as a veteran of POS that just having the algorithm itself on its own and saying it is a cheap and efficient way to secure the network is not enough. Much less to be about decentralizaton (for example Vitalik owns a lot of ETH and many block validators will be huge ones). But I believe they will run different incentives to choose different and more diverse validators instead of just big ETH owners.

[stompix]

And when Cardano supporters make the argument that the cost of a 51% attack:

could cost 15 Billion ADA when ADA is priced at $1, which will be a thousand times more money currently needed to initiate a 51% attack on Bitcoin (BTC).

that sounds a little disingenuous when people were accumulating ADA before it was worth $1.  Back in 2017 it was worth $0.03 US.

The main problem of their so-called cost is that they are thinking of something actually buying those coins as it will happen with bitcoin mining gear.
But in PoS, you gain more coins as you stake more, with PoW you don't produce more ASICs while you mine, no matter how much the guys at Cardano or any other Pos coin are trying to hide it behind fancy numbers there are some facts that can't be denied

- people who can afford to keep their coins staked are going to get more coins
- people who actively use coins are paying those who don't give a damn about real-life usage
- this model leads clearly only to the accumulation for the one that already has coins
- they can stick their 5 trillion tx per second somewhere as in PoS models there is one more incentive to not spend compared to PoW
- with every single epoch and every cent in price rise true decentralization is harder and harder to achieve
 

[amishmanish]

give it a couple weeks....

Plus give it a couple more weeks, because of the genius that he is, Elon Musk will realize that Hashcash/POW, as implemented in Bitcoin, is the greatest/biggest break-through/discovery for creating a truly decentralized, censorship-resistant protocol. Or maybe he already knows it, and he trolls.

Through all this madness, I am trying to keep my faith that Elon, at the end of the day, is the guy who re-landed the Falcon rockets and that giant, pointy piece of Stainless steel. If he really gets down to it, he should realize why PoW is important and why scaling isn't as simple as increasing blocksize.

Till now, he isn't showing may signs of coming to an intelligent conclusion though. Just today he was arguing about how Moore's law will catch up with the requirements for an increased block-size (completing ignoring the syncing time argument). Then there is of course the BSV shills and the ADA, AVAX shills inviting him for coffee.

One silver lining though was that he said "For now, we need lightning", referring to LN of course.

[franky1]

give it a couple weeks....

Plus give it a couple more weeks, because of the genius that he is, Elon Musk will realize that Hashcash/POW, as implemented in Bitcoin, is the greatest/biggest break-through/discovery for creating a truly decentralized, censorship-resistant protocol. Or maybe he already knows it, and he trolls.

hashcash is not implemented in bitcoin.
inspiration from hashcash was used to then have satoshi develop something himself called PoW.
hashcash vs PoW are different things
much like a candle is different from dynamite
acknowledging hashcash inspiration does not mean the same as having the actually hashcash in bitcoin

whats next.. will windfury say that elons EV cars are actually alex volta's property. where windfury just says 'because volta invented the battery'
nope elons EV batteries are nothing like the batteries volta invented..

cavemen made fire.
but a candle was not made by cavemen

hashcash header has: email date and a hash using sha1
bitcoin does not. so its not hashcash

..
but now i come to think of it. it its taken 4 years for windfury to not learn some basic stuff.
maybe suggesting elon learning the basics in a couple weeks is a error. . maybe elon might need a month
48x faster then windfury can work things out.. i think thats fair

(now awaits windfury to call on his best buddy doomad to defend windfury's honour and start some silly preteen social drama. like they always do)

[DooMAD]

(now awaits windfury to call on his best buddy doomad to defend windfury's honour and start some silly preteen social drama. like they always do)

I've been waiting for you to say something dishonest or misleading but, to my surprise, you're actually doing okay so far.  It's a refreshing change of pace that I don't have to take immediate issue with something you've just said.  It's almost like they've finally put you on the right meds or something.  The post just prior to yours even managed to mention Lightning without triggering you into one of your usual tirades.  For what it's worth, I sincerely hope your current trend of rationality continues.

Through all this madness, I am trying to keep my faith that Elon, at the end of the day, is the guy who re-landed the Falcon rockets and that giant, pointy piece of Stainless steel. If he really gets down to it, he should realize why PoW is important and why scaling isn't as simple as increasing blocksize.

I'm rather indifferent towards his personal growth and betterment.  Whether he gets it or not, at some point, the market should outgrow his puppetry.  Let him have his misguided fun while he can.

[Wind_FURY]

give it a couple weeks....

Plus give it a couple more weeks, because of the genius that he is, Elon Musk will realize that Hashcash/POW, as implemented in Bitcoin, is the greatest/biggest break-through/discovery for creating a truly decentralized, censorship-resistant protocol. Or maybe he already knows it, and he trolls.

hashcash is not implemented in bitcoin.
inspiration from hashcash was used to then have satoshi develop something himself called PoW.
hashcash vs PoW are different things
much like a candle is different from dynamite
acknowledging hashcash inspiration does not mean the same as having the actually hashcash in bitcoin

whats next.. will windfury say that elons EV cars are actually alex volta's property. where windfury just says 'because volta invented the battery'
nope elons EV batteries are nothing like the batteries volta invented..

cavemen made fire.
but a candle was not made by cavemen

hashcash header has: email date and a hash using sha1
bitcoin does not. so its not hashcash

..
but now i come to think of it. it its taken 4 years for windfury to not learn some basic stuff.
maybe suggesting elon learning the basics in a couple weeks is a error. . maybe elon might need a month
48x faster then windfury can work things out.. i think thats fair

(now awaits windfury to call on his best buddy doomad to defend windfury's honour and start some silly preteen social drama. like they always do)

 

Wasn’t it the idea of Hashcash where Satoshi got the the idea to implementation it as Proof of Work for Bitcoin? Your hate for the Core developers has made you bitter, and it makes you discard Adam Back’s contribution in Satoshi’s invention of Bitcoin. Why?

[iTradeChips]

From my perspective, I think that Elon has already done enough damage for cryptocurrency. So damaged were his "strategy" that this forum always show Elon this and Elon that. Remember, Elon is not Satoshi, if satoshis wallet suddenly moves to sell the coin then I might listen but aside from that, no Elons will change my opinion about cryptocurrency. Proof of Work is what drives these miners and I think aside from PoW, maybe I might also support PoS as I had experience with them in the past. For me these are two different systems so I don't have to compare them.

[franky1]

Wasn’t it the idea of Hashcash where Satoshi got the the idea to implementation it as Proof of Work for Bitcoin? Your hate for the Core developers has made you bitter, and it makes you discard Adam Back’s contribution in Satoshi’s invention of Bitcoin. Why?

i know you are purposefully trying to poke the bear to trigger another social drama debate
and i know you then want your buddy to chime in to double up the drama

adam back did not write any bitcoin code in 2008-10, also hashcash includes:
sha1 email date

PoW does not include:
sha1 email date

thus PoW is not hashcash and hashcash is not in PoW
there is no hashcash code in bitcoin
so now i have debunked your PoW FUD twice. accept it. learn from it

but in short as for inspiration
hashcash vs PoW
is like
caveman bonfire vs scented candle

inspiration is very different than implementation
so your statement " that Hashcash/POW, as implemented in Bitcoin" is wrong

no cavemen were involved in the production of combustible scented candle wicks

have a nice day..

[Wind_FURY]

Wasn’t it the idea of Hashcash where Satoshi got the the idea to implementation it as Proof of Work for Bitcoin? Your hate for the Core developers has made you bitter, and it makes you discard Adam Back’s contribution in Satoshi’s invention of Bitcoin. Why?

i know you are purposefully trying to poke the bear to trigger another social drama debate
and i know you then want your buddy to chime in to double up the drama

Drama? I was merely posting FACTS. Satoshi also cited Adam Back and Hashcash in the Bitcoin white paper. Without Hashcash, no Bitcoin.

adam back did not write any bitcoin code in 2008-10, also hashcash includes:
sha1 email date

PoW does not include:
sha1 email date

thus PoW is not hashcash and hashcash is not in PoW
there is no hashcash code in bitcoin

I never said anything. But you’re obviously discrediting Adam Back.

so now i have debunked your PoW FUD twice. accept it. learn from it

  What FUD. Gaslighting again? Hahaha.

but in short as for inspiration
hashcash vs PoW
is like
caveman bonfire vs scented candle

inspiration is very different than implementation
so your statement " that Hashcash/POW, as implemented in Bitcoin" is wrong

no cavemen were involved in the production of combustible scented candle wicks

have a nice day..

OK, but Adam Back’s indirect contribution to Bitcoin still cannot be dicredited. Without Hashcash, would Satoshi thought of inventing the missing piece? The most important piece?

[franky1]

one last time
without fire.... no candles
but a caveman did not invent or contribute to candles

stop over selling someones involvement when they were not physically involved in bitcoins creation
adam back only heard about bitcoin after its creation.

remember.. inspiration is not the same as implementation

donald trump quotes many now dead presidents as trumps inspiration.. that does not mean those dead presidents were making the laws of the US in 2016-2020

there is no hashcash code implemented in bitcoin.

PoW is a candle.. not a cavemans bonfire

if you cant tell the difference between a bonfire and a candle. then thats an issue you need to sort out for yourself, along with

a car is not a wheelbarrow
a mp3 player is not a LP record player
a fibre cable is not a copper telegram cable
a laser printer is not a parchment printing press
a excavator/digger truck is not a pickaxe

remember inspiration is not invention or implementation

..
incase you dont get your own words. let me rephrase your words
'NSA implemented bitcoin' is what you are trying to say
because atleast NSA code (crytography) is in bitcoin.. unlike hashcash

but we all know NSA didnt implement bitcoin.. (well apart from you)
even nick szabo does not acclaim himself as someone that implemented bitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

one last time
without fire.... no candles
but a caveman did not invent or contribute to candles

stop over selling someones involvement when they were not physically involved in bitcoins creation
adam back only heard about bitcoin after its creation.

remember.. inspiration is not the same as implementation

there is no hashcash code implemented in bitcoin.

remember inspiration is not invention or implementation

BUT, Hashcash IS also Proof of Work, and the function is fundamentally the same in that they require a verifiable proof that an amount of compute was done.

Satoshi cited Adam Back, and his invention in Hashcash, and Satoshi implemented Proof of Work based on Adam Back’s invention.

Thank you Adam Back, if your brilliant mind didn’t exist in our universe, Satoshi would currently be lost in looking for a solution for the Byzantine Generals Problem.

..
incase you dont get your own words. let me rephrase your words
'NSA implemented bitcoin' is what you are trying to say
because atleast NSA code (crytography) is in bitcoin.. unlike hashcash

but we all know NSA didnt implement bitcoin.. (well apart from you)
even nick szabo does not acclaim himself as someone that implemented bitcoin.

Gaslighting again?