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Author Topic: Bitcoin TapRoot Update?  (Read 387 times)
very_452001
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May 17, 2021, 11:03:10 PM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (2)
 #1

Can someone ELI5:

- Is this a hard fork or soft fork?

- A swap to a newer chain?

- If hard fork will bitcoin hodlers get free airdrop?


What date this year the update will happen?

Is this similar to the 'Segwit' update back in near fall in 2017?

What is TapRoot?
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May 18, 2021, 03:26:53 AM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (2)
 #2

I'm incapable of explaining the technical aspects of it, but it's a soft fork, not a hard fork.  No new chain, it implements a more efficient script along with a more efficient script signing algorithm that're compatible with the same chain.  From what I've read the more efficient coding will allow more transactions per block, and thus result in a faster network and lower fees.  It also allows more complex transactions (like multi-sig) to consolidate signatures, reducing fees and improving privacy for those types of transactions.

This is from Bitcoin Core 0.21.1 release notes:

## Taproot Soft Fork

Included in this release are the mainnet and testnet activation
parameters for the taproot soft fork (BIP341) which also adds support
for schnorr signatures (BIP340) and tapscript (BIP342).

If activated, these improvements will allow users of single-signature
scripts, multisignature scripts, and complex contracts to all use
identical-appearing commitments that enhance their privacy and the
fungibility of all bitcoins. Spenders will enjoy lower fees and the
ability to resolve many multisig scripts and complex contracts with the
same efficiency, low fees, and large anonymity set as single-sig users.
Taproot and schnorr also include efficiency improvements for full nodes
such as the ability to batch signature verification.  Together, the
improvements lay the groundwork for future potential
upgrades that may improve efficiency, privacy, and fungibility further.

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May 18, 2021, 03:38:27 AM
Merited by OmegaStarScream (2), so98nn (1), Charles-Tim (1)
 #3

- Is this a hard fork or soft fork?
A soft fork

Quote
- A swap to a newer chain?
There is no new chain.

Quote
- If hard fork will bitcoin hodlers get free airdrop?
Your own title is answering this, Taproot is an "update" coming to bitcoin not some shitcoin fork creating a copycoin to give you airdrop!

Quote
What date this year the update will happen?
Not possible to know, since bitcoin is decentralized its forks always take place only after reaching majority support from the network and that can take time. But so far it has only been 16 days since the release of the new bitcoin core version that adds the code for Taproot activation and miners have started signalling. You can see the progress on a website like this: https://taproot.watch/

Quote
Is this similar to the 'Segwit' update back in near fall in 2017?
In many ways yes.
It is a soft fork, it is backward compatible, but it is a smaller upgrade than SegWit, It doesn't have the drama that SegWit had though, it is adding new witness version.

Quote
What is TapRoot?
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/taproot-coming-what-it-and-how-it-will-benefit-bitcoin

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May 18, 2021, 08:16:13 AM
 #4

What is TapRoot?
To be getting update about Taproot, you can set notification on this thread, Taproot proposal. Most mining pools are signalling for Taproot activation, this is an evidence that this can not result to hard fork, it will be a soft fork activation, which means there is no swap to a new chain, the normal bitcoin blockchain will also be used for tracking Taproot transactions. So far it does not lead to hardfork, holders will not get any forked coin because no new coin is created, nothing also like airdrop that will be reward. Nobody knows when Taproot will finally be fully activated but the progress has been positive, but its activation will be this year.

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May 18, 2021, 09:00:46 AM
 #5

What is TapRoot?
To be getting update about Taproot, you can set notification on this thread, Taproot proposal. Most mining pools are signalling for Taproot activation, this is an evidence that this can not result to hard fork, it will be a soft fork activation, which means there is no swap to a new chain, the normal bitcoin blockchain will also be used for tracking Taproot transactions. So far it does not lead to hardfork, holders will not get any forked coin because no new coin is created, nothing also like airdrop that will be reward. Nobody knows when Taproot will finally be fully activated but the progress has been positive, but its activation will be this year.

Is it known or can it be roughly calculated by how much the Taproot upgrade will increase Bitcoin't transaction capacity? Are we talking substantial increase or just a minor improvement?

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Charles-Tim
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May 18, 2021, 09:39:59 AM
 #6

Is it known or can it be roughly calculated by how much the Taproot upgrade will increase Bitcoin't transaction capacity? Are we talking substantial increase or just a minor improvement?
Before you will be able to get clearer view and able to know answers to your question, know that Taproot is about key aggregation, the more there are public keys used to open a multisig wallet, the more the transaction fee, schnorr signature will be able to aggregate the keys during transaction, this makes multisig transaction indistinguishable and making it to have low fee, irrespective of the numbers of keys used to open the multisig wallet that makes use of schnoor signature for signing, the transaction fee will be the same.

To understand more about this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5140134.msg57011585#msg57011585

But if you think it will make transaction fee very low, it does not work that way, the activation will focus more reducing multisig transaction fee and making such transaction indistinguishable from single payment wallet.

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May 19, 2021, 11:34:06 PM
 #7

Okay does this Taproot update affect bitcoin's decentralization in anyway that will bring a backlash from the btc community?
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May 20, 2021, 01:38:06 AM
 #8

Okay does this Taproot update affect bitcoin's decentralization in anyway that will bring a backlash from the btc community?

By its own, no.
However with the cooperation of MAST and schnorr signature which may be applied upon bitcoin in the future, it can improve the privacy of bitcoin thus improve its decntralization indirectly.
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May 20, 2021, 02:16:43 AM
 #9

its soft.

so far no option of hard fork. and no option of a forced fork/contentious fork. (all good signs)

if it doesnt get its 90% over a 2 week period it just wont lock in/activate.
but has many 2 week oportunities over the next 3 months

so far based on the latest 1day % is at about ~85% acceptance
so i see its getting close to having met threshold (within inches so far)
so as long as pools dont pull out it could lock in within a month.
as it just needs a few more % and them to then hold it for 2 weeks+

if it does lock in, it then allows 3 further months to then upgrade software before it activates (giving users time to update)

i see no contention or malice practices by devs trying to force the issue

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May 22, 2021, 01:52:26 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2021, 06:21:20 AM by mprep
 #10

Okay does this Taproot update affect bitcoin's decentralization in anyway that will bring a backlash from the btc community?

By its own, no.
However with the cooperation of MAST and schnorr signature which may be applied upon bitcoin in the future, it can improve the privacy of bitcoin thus improve its decntralization indirectly.

MAST and Schnorr relies Taproot being activated 1st on the btc network?





its soft.

so far no option of hard fork. and no option of a forced fork/contentious fork. (all good signs)

if it doesnt get its 90% over a 2 week period it just wont lock in/activate.
but has many 2 week oportunities over the next 3 months

so far based on the latest 1day % is at about ~85% acceptance
so i see its getting close to having met threshold (within inches so far)
so as long as pools dont pull out it could lock in within a month.
as it just needs a few more % and them to then hold it for 2 weeks+

if it does lock in, it then allows 3 further months to then upgrade software before it activates (giving users time to update)

i see no contention or malice practices by devs trying to force the issue

Elon Musk wants Bitcoin to be a Cryptocurrency not a Crypto Asset (store of wealth) with his recent Lightning Network is needed tweet.

Does Taproot pave the way for lightning network?

Lightning Network only makes sense if everybody accepts it as payment from your local coffee shop to Amazon right? 

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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May 22, 2021, 02:37:11 PM
 #11

Elon Musk has a lot to read, he needs to tweet less and read more (this forum, maybe the technical area) before coming with wrong conclusions (again).

Bitcoin is what it is, he can't "want" anything and can't change anything anyway. The only changes are what the whole community agrees with, as you are seeing with taproot right now.


LN is for occasional fast transactions, this is not required for everything. You certainly don't need it to purchase a car online...

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May 22, 2021, 09:27:02 PM
 #12

Former NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden said that Bitcoin lacks privacy. He said without privacy bitcoin is useless and Privacy coins are better.

So TapRoot makes Bitcoin more private? If so then why Edward saying Taproot makes privacy worse Huh
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May 22, 2021, 10:25:51 PM
 #13

Does Taproot pave the way for lightning network?

Lightning Network only makes sense if everybody accepts it as payment from your local coffee shop to Amazon right? 

taproot can make LN settlement commitments cheaper.. IF the channel partners use the same subset of keys
from the same keyseed.
it works by using a RANGE instead of a point. meaning multiple keys or a mathematic average of those keys are within the range of the needed proof range

 its useful if one user wants to generate a thousand public addresses from a seed knowing that it only needs 1 signature to prove them all when spending all the funds received on those addresses

it doesnt work if people are generating keys from completely different random points unassociated with each other in any way. EG different seeds from different wallets

there might be 'some' LN utility for what is known as 'LN watchtowers/factory' services which is where there is a manager(third party) that sets up the channels on behalf of 2 users. whereby its always the watchtower/factory that is broadcasting the commitment.(lite wallet app ->manager server)
but in those cases. most of the time the factory is just aggregating balances offchain and resetting up new channels without needing to broadcast.

but in short.
it wont make LN any better. but does allow more oppertunity for managed channels(with pros and cons of that)
but mainly individuals can seed thousands of addresses and need only one signature
say for instance. exchanges/pools making batch payments

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May 23, 2021, 05:39:20 AM
 #14

Elon Musk wants Bitcoin to be a Cryptocurrency not a Crypto Asset (store of wealth) with his recent Lightning Network is needed tweet.
He definitely pretends to want that but his actions speak volumes. He already proved that he is yet another "investor" who doesn't care about bitcoin or the technology and just wants to make millions.

Quote
Lightning Network only makes sense if everybody accepts it as payment from your local coffee shop to Amazon right? 
Not necessarily everyone. There are already a lot of cases that could be improved by a lot if they switched to LN. For example one of the biggest ones is the exchanges. Two others that come to mind are the payment processors and gambling sites. These are all creating a lot of on-chain spam that could be moved to LN which would not only leave more block space empty but also improves their centralized service and the user experience. Then you can easily make on-chain payment to Amazon and coffee shop after they migrate.

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May 23, 2021, 08:46:29 AM
Merited by pooya87 (1), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #15

Former NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden said that Bitcoin lacks privacy. He said without privacy bitcoin is useless and Privacy coins are better.

So TapRoot makes Bitcoin more private? If so then why Edward saying Taproot makes privacy worse Huh

Snowden is a bit of celebrity really, not sure why we should take his opinion as being more interesting than anyone else's




Taproot doesn't do much to improve Bitcoin privacy.

Bitcoin transactions can have optional parts in the contracts (even the simplest style of Bitcoin transaction where "Mr. A pays Mrs. B" is a basic contract, really)


With Taproot, the optional parts that don't get used aren't recorded in the blockchain. With current Bitcoin contracts, all the possible options are recorded onchain, which is a waste of space. Who cares about the parts of the contract that didn't happen?

So that's why people are saying Taproot improves privacy; it does, but it's more meaningful as a way of stopping the blockchain getting filled with useless parts of contracts.

Vires in numeris
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May 23, 2021, 09:46:52 AM
 #16

Is it known or can it be roughly calculated by how much the Taproot upgrade will increase Bitcoin't transaction capacity? Are we talking substantial increase or just a minor improvement?
Before you will be able to get clearer view and able to know answers to your question, know that Taproot is about key aggregation, the more there are public keys used to open a multisig wallet, the more the transaction fee, schnorr signature will be able to aggregate the keys during transaction, this makes multisig transaction indistinguishable and making it to have low fee, irrespective of the numbers of keys used to open the multisig wallet that makes use of schnoor signature for signing, the transaction fee will be the same.

To understand more about this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5140134.msg57011585#msg57011585

But if you think it will make transaction fee very low, it does not work that way, the activation will focus more reducing multisig transaction fee and making such transaction indistinguishable from single payment wallet.

Thanks for the insights. I was on the wrong path then as I thought it is going to decrease transaction fees. Are there any updates on the horizon that are specifically aimed at reducing transaction costs? That is still a pressing issue although the fees have been alright most of the time, but for even broader adoption they have to go down.

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May 23, 2021, 11:14:33 AM
 #17

Former NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden said that Bitcoin lacks privacy. He said without privacy bitcoin is useless and Privacy coins are better.

Privacy coins obviously better on terms on privacy. I think he's either exaggerating or think Bitcoin (without CoinJoin/mixer) is useless for high-profile person like him.

So TapRoot makes Bitcoin more private? If so then why Edward saying Taproot makes privacy worse Huh

It would be great if you mention the source (could be his tweet) to get additional context. But i guess it's because Taproot introduce additional address type (bc1p / P2TR).

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May 23, 2021, 11:19:12 AM
 #18

Are all the miners agree on this TapRoot Update?

BTC Taproot plan stumbles as miners fail to show support—who holds the power?
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May 23, 2021, 12:11:41 PM
 #19

You have to check your sources: https://taproot.watch/.

There is also a BIP proposed for mandatory activation in the event that miners don't signal support. There really isn't much politics that should involve the miners and favour them into hindering the activation.

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May 24, 2021, 05:49:22 AM
 #20

Are all the miners agree on this TapRoot Update?
The short answer is yes.
More than 95% of the mining pools are currently signalling support for Taproot activation. The problem is that they still haven't upgraded all their servers (each mining pool has multiple servers in different locations) with the change to signal for it so the total number of blocks signalling is a lot less.

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