Crypto and energy consumption

[Coroline]

Michael Novogratz's cryptocurrency company Galaxy Digital released a report on Friday entitled "On Bitcoin Energy Consumption: A Quantitative Approach to Subjective Questions", providing open source access to its methodology and calculations.

Compiled by mining division Galaxy, the study estimates Bitcoin's annual electricity consumption to be at 113.89 terawatts per hour, including energy for miner demand, miner power consumption, pool power consumption, and node power consumption. This amount is at least twice lower than the total energy consumed by the banking system as well as the gold industry each year, according to Galaxy estimates.

While Bitcoin's energy consumption is transparent and easy to track in real time using tools like the Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index, evaluating the energy use of the gold industry and traditional financial systems isn't that simple, says Galaxy Digital Mining.

reported from https://wartaekonomi.co.id/berita341854/riset-ini-sebut-industri-perbankan-more- many-use-listrik-dibanding-bitcoin

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[Luqman]

Energy consumption for crypto mining in this case is about electricity.
As we know that every country may have limited electricity power energy. That is why commonly the government will ask us to save the energy as possible as we can. And for mining, we need the energy all the time during mining and the energy used is very high. This will of course influence the stock of the energy itself. It may not work when there are only a few people doing the mining. But imagine that there are so many people who do mining. WHat will happen is that the energy consumption will be so much more for crypto mining and this will really make energy stock in such country limited enough.
And moreover, most countries are not ready with alternative energy to be sued right now.

[Dexion]

If Elon thinks that BTC mining is bad for the environment then he should release his own version of BTC and named it Green BTC or something, I'm pretty sure this man will end up the way that McAfee did, he his getting outta control and he doesn't know it

I am also confused by Elon Musk's way of thinking so that he said BTC mining is bad for the environment, even though the assembly of mining machines only uses electricity without having to emit smoke like a factory in general.

Maybe he thinks about the amount of electricity needed in mining, and maybe he only thinks that electricity comes from fossils, even though there are many countries that make electricity generation by hydro, wind, or solar. If Elon is concerned about energy consumption, an Elon who is known for his wealth should be able to create a power plant with environmentally friendly power rather than tweeting about energy consumption.

[dezoel]

All these energy consumption stories are created because the governments have realized and understood that Bitcoin is unstoppable and the only way you can create hate against this crypto is through this energy consumption propaganda. I mean the most developed countries use the highest amount of resources and energy but no one gives a sh*t because they believe growth will come at a cost.

But when the same logic is needed for crypto people don't understand it. All these social media influencers are paid by the government in my opinion to spread hate and pessimism around bitcoins. We as a community need to stand strong and understand that power consumption is not really a reason why we should stop using Bitcoins.

First, they called it a bubble but once they realize Bitcoin is just spreading like fire in the forest, they are coming up with stories.

[Lantind]

Maybe he thinks about the amount of electricity needed in mining, and maybe he only thinks that electricity comes from fossils, even though there are many countries that make electricity generation by hydro, wind, or solar. If Elon is concerned about energy consumption, an Elon who is known for his wealth should be able to create a power plant with environmentally friendly power rather than tweeting about energy consumption.

Yes, it should be, because it is impossible for the richest person in the world to not be able to do that because in general his abilities have exceeded other people and also have very much financial support.

[lixer]

Recently, this issue has become a hot topic of discussion, and has had a huge effect on the market. Even though from the first crypto mining and energy consumption were related, because a mining activity would definitely consume a lot of energy, but somehow since Elon started to raise it into a tweet, this seems to be a dangerous thing and an extraordinary thing, isn't it? we see this to be an attempt to manipulate the market? no need to listen too much to issues like this, it's better to focus on each other's work.

What's funny is that Elon was 100% aware of how it works but earlier he never brought up the point but now all the discussion revolves around this energy consumption.

For a moment I even agree that yes energy is wasted but we have POS coins coming up then are people ready to accept them or they have some other logic for not accepting it? I mean if someone wants to use crypto but doesn't because it wastes energy then go ahead and use POS coins and you should be good. I don't know why suddenly this has become a huge problem while the system exists for 10+ years.

[leea-1334]

What's funny is that Elon was 100% aware of how it works but earlier he never brought up the point but now all the discussion revolves around this energy consumption.

For a moment I even agree that yes energy is wasted but we have POS coins coming up then are people ready to accept them or they have some other logic for not accepting it? I mean if someone wants to use crypto but doesn't because it wastes energy then go ahead and use POS coins and you should be good. I don't know why suddenly this has become a huge problem while the system exists for 10+ years.

This is the point which leads me to think he actually was not aware of everything. So he knew maybe like most of us did about mining, that it needed computers and expensive computers.

What he probably did not find out at first, again just like most of us,,, was that it actually was very very expensive to run these miner computers on their own all day all year:)

And finally he is a big idiot for not realizing this is the most secure money network in the world. Of course it costs money to secure it! If not, then anyone would be incentivized to attack it.

[ampu]

Compare the mining, use, and validation of cryptocurrencies with the issuance of banknotes, bank operations, and confirmation of transactions.
Cryptocurrency is more economical because it is decentralized and cheaper than the worldwide banking system if we look at it as a whole.
Some mining and operating cryptocurrencies are quite light and use little electrical energy.
Cryptocurrency is just one of the payment solutions so it will improve over time. Any argument that cryptocurrencies are wasteful is false because cryptocurrencies themselves have evolved from POW to POS mining.

[Jackl87]

Just want to put this out there. What is the problem with crypto mining and energy consumption? Yes, I know you'll raise environment concerns, I get it.

However, consider this: a civilisation is measured by its energy consumption. Before we discovered fire and used any stone tools, the only energy we had was whatever our bodies produced. Then we discovered fire, made tools, invented the wheel, etc. Until now, when we use computers, robots and other machines to help us live. Our life expectancy and quality of life has increased dramatically.

Shouldn't we concentrate our efforts on using clean renewable energy, rather than restrict our use of it?

Frankly, if there is a problem with too much energy consumption, we should go back and live in caves, and hunt in groups.

I only partially agree with you here. I mean yes of course we need to consume energy to be able to live our modern lives as we do since a few decades but i disagree that a civilization is measured by its energy consumption in the sense of more consumption = better or a higher grade of civilization. The goals for our time now should be to consume as little energy as possible which means to make machines and all other devices as energy efficient as possible. This process is already happening since decades and if i compare my car now with one of 1970 then my current car consumes only half as much gasoline but has twice the performance.
The other approach is to stop unnecessary consumption completely and to be honest i think crypto mining is pretty much unnecessary as there are other consensus mechanism out there like Proof of Stake.

[Kunotcoin]

I think the reason behind these energy issues is related to climate change because according to the timeline we have only 9 years of time left to make a difference to reduce the global average temperature after that 9 years time according to them the global climate will not be the same again. and because crypto mining is not solely run on clean and renewable energy that's why it was included now in the topic. but I believe that issue will be fixed sooner.

[Lantind]

This is clearly a strategy so that the price of Crypto goes down by questioning the energy consumption used to mine Bitcoin, especially this discussion is made by people who clearly have the ability to make their own power plants with the wealth he has.

Yes, it does look like speculation and a game so that the bitcoin market can experience a crash and those who are rich can get bitcoin at a cheap price and one day try to pump it back so they can make a lot of profit.

[orengitu]

I honestly don't know why crypto and energy is now talk of the town, we all know that mining of coin consumes energy and is not only mining of coin that consumes energy. Now that elon musk is talking about btc consuming alot of energy is like starting a war. We should all know that something like this might come up sometime, we just have to be prepared when next something like this comes up.

[tyz]

I honestly don't know why crypto and energy is now talk of the town, we all know that mining of coin consumes energy and is not only mining of coin that consumes energy. Now that elon musk is talking about btc consuming alot of energy is like starting a war. We should all know that something like this might come up sometime, we just have to be prepared when next something like this comes up.

Did you live in a bubble? Besides Corona, the most discussed topic worldwide is certainly climate change and the possibilities to stop or at least limit it. That is why many countries have decided to soon no longer allow gasoline engines and switch to electric energy forms or, for example, to phase out coal energy. It was foreseeable that crypto with its partly horrendous energy consumption will come into focus sooner or later.

[FanEagle]

I understand the worry, I worry about our energy consumption as a whole world, and I worry that if we do not do something about the climate change soon, we are going to live one of the hardest periods of humanity ever since the black plague. However this is not about consuming energy, this is about where that energy comes from and that is the problem.

If you have insane amount of solar panels and create energy from that and use it for bitcoin mining then we do not have a problem, the aim of stopping the current global warming crisis is not to downsize the amount of energy we consume, it is to stop the energy creation out of things like fossil fuels, there is a big difference.

[dhemasm]

Just want to put this out there. What is the problem with crypto mining and energy consumption? Yes, I know you'll raise environment concerns, I get it.

Well, comparing to centralized system especially on Financial sector it cost much higher rather than crypto mining, From some article Banks consume 4x higher rather than crypto mining especiall Mining. Read more here; https://medium.com/@zodhyatech/which-consumes-more-power-banks-or-bitcoins-8302750fe2bc

Shouldn't we concentrate our efforts on using clean renewable energy, rather than restrict our use of it?

That's a difficult thing, Crypto and Blockchain are prohibited not because of energy consumption but because banks or centralized systems are afraid of losing their monopoly role (My personal assumption), What do you think guys?

[leea-1334]

Compare the mining, use, and validation of cryptocurrencies with the issuance of banknotes, bank operations, and confirmation of transactions.
Cryptocurrency is more economical because it is decentralized and cheaper than the worldwide banking system if we look at it as a whole.
Some mining and operating cryptocurrencies are quite light and use little electrical energy.
Cryptocurrency is just one of the payment solutions so it will improve over time. Any argument that cryptocurrencies are wasteful is false because cryptocurrencies themselves have evolved from POW to POS mining.

People will not see that. What they see is expensive Chinese miners eating up electricity to let people gamble and do ransom.

What they cannot see is the millions of employees and managers at banks, and expensive 24/7 computers and redundant servers all maintaining the global financial system yet easy to hack, easy to take down, and with full of exploits and bad management all around. That is the true cost.

[ampu]

Compare the mining, use, and validation of cryptocurrencies with the issuance of banknotes, bank operations, and confirmation of transactions.
Cryptocurrency is more economical because it is decentralized and cheaper than the worldwide banking system if we look at it as a whole.
Some mining and operating cryptocurrencies are quite light and use little electrical energy.
Cryptocurrency is just one of the payment solutions so it will improve over time. Any argument that cryptocurrencies are wasteful is false because cryptocurrencies themselves have evolved from POW to POS mining.

People will not see that. What they see is expensive Chinese miners eating up electricity to let people gamble and do ransom.

What they cannot see is the millions of employees and managers at banks, and expensive 24/7 computers and redundant servers all maintaining the global financial system yet easy to hack, easy to take down, and with full of exploits and bad management all around. That is the true cost.

They only look at a certain level and evaluate everything with a one-sided view of Bitcoin. It was the advent of Bitcoin that made international remittance services work better than before, increased sending speeds and launched mobile apps for people to be proactive in their transactions.
It was Bitcoin that changed the face of banking around the world.
As you said, it is absurd when the security level of the banking system is weak. It is that weakness that brings about economic and time loss, which can be said to slow down the history of human development.

[leea-1334]

They only look at a certain level and evaluate everything with a one-sided view of Bitcoin. It was the advent of Bitcoin that made international remittance services work better than before, increased sending speeds and launched mobile apps for people to be proactive in their transactions.
It was Bitcoin that changed the face of banking around the world.
As you said, it is absurd when the security level of the banking system is weak. It is that weakness that brings about economic and time loss, which can be said to slow down the history of human development.

But that is natural and normal. Even from the side of crypto,,, we have to admit most crypto people also evaluate things from their single perspective. Fiat and banks are evil and all that and ignore 99% of alt projects are also truly evil and even worse as they scam people left and right.

But yes, it seems this is the neverending debate that never looks at the real answer.

[Lantind]

That's a difficult thing, Crypto and Blockchain are prohibited not because of energy consumption but because banks or centralized systems are afraid of losing their monopoly role (My personal assumption), What do you think guys?

I also assume the same thing, only in this case the Bank can also cooperate with Crypto and Blockchain because crypto users will also use the Bank in their respective regions even though they will no longer keep money in the bank.

[esquibelpaola]

I don't see the motivation behind why this is an issue, im previously utilizing environmentally friendly power energy in my home throughout recent years and my mining ranch is running on sunlight based boards and reinforcement. In the end it needs impetus and the arrangement is incorporated, leaving a few clients to trust the validators without enough control.