why revolutions and movements fail at their desired outcome

[franky1]

you were talking about the reaction to the boston tea party(342 boxes of tea thrown in the sea)
britain did send more tea and stil demanded more taxes. which even you noted as the intolerant acts

thats where your first  story ended

funny thing is. the response was not britain going to america with placards and picnic blankets.
they made LAWS as their reaction (yep laws change things more then placards).. but not positive laws that helped america.. negative laws (hint protests dont work)

what you will see is that part of the intolerable acts was to have the british parliament make acts to 'own' the ports and demand payment further. basically you wont get your tea unless you pay the tax first.
(1774:£9k = 2020: $1m)
ill call this the tax blackmail part of my summary of 'demand more tax'
and then they sent tea via other methods
ill call this the bait and switch part of my summary of 'send more tea'

ill concede and explain my summary better in regards to bait and switch.. it was no longer britain -> india->britain-> america during this march+1774 event of the intolerable acts
where britain bought tea from india. india sent tea via britain to america. via official channels

but instead britain-> india->'pirates'->america
you got to remember america still got tea from 'east india tea company' (aka britain) but just not the official way
but britain (parliament) still fought for taxes from that tea journey coz they 'own the ports'
hint: most 'pirates' were british. indian tea company was british empire owned thus still britain sending tea
(but shhh, dont tell the colonists)

.. and just to add a lil more salt to the tea..
when britain sent the new acts to america. they sent it with tea and there 30 boxes of tea also got dumped
but hey now im really knit picking details.

hense my summarising 'britain still sent tea and demanded taxes'
maybe i should have explained ELI-5 rather than to ask to look deeper. i just thought some people would look deeper and connect the dots

anyway.
throwing 342 boxes off 3 boats oct 1773. did not win america any favours. so the 'protest' didnt help
what did help is the petitions and legal stuff .. but it seems we are skipping ahead of where you are at in your research
so ill slow down, and try to not summarise too much.
but the american response in september 1774 of forming congress petitioning the monarchy led to britain conceding in feb 1775 and reducing their handling and demands on america.. but it seems im skipping ahead
ill wait for you to catch up to all the dots that led to
concillatory resolution oops i mean 'response to the petition of the monarchy'
[spoiler] it was not 342 boxes of tea dumping=war/peace.

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[BADecker]

^^^ We got Covid and the vaxx from Fauci through some roundabout method like this.

[franky1]

^^^ We got Covid and the vaxx from Fauci through some roundabout method like this.

you got covid and the vaxx

so you got vaccinated after all... well thanks for that admission.
now you can get on with your life and stop pretending your an anti vaxxer

[BADecker]

^^^ We got Covid and the vaxx from Fauci through some roundabout method like this.

you got covid and the vaxx

so you got vaccinated after all... well thanks for that admission.
now you can get on with your life and stop pretending your an anti vaxxer

Standard for you... can't tell the difference between vaxx and vaxxinated.

And even more standard that you flaunt it.

[franky1]

your grammatical knitpick would have been more noted if you tried to distance yourself from the 'we' by saying you didnt mean yourself you meant US/humans in general

but you decided to embarrass yourself by trying to change your sentence to make it sound like your saying 'we got the vaccine' instead of 'we got vaccinated'
however even if you were to say 'we got the vaccine' the implication/meaning still ends up being the same thing
because when i say i 'got the vaccine'. i dont mean they handed me a vial i store in my fridge. i mean i was vaccinated

[franky1]

sorry folks about badeckers usual trolling.
if only politicians were easy to rebutt

anyways
back to the subject.
if you wipe away all the media printed social drama of protests. and actually look into the big details of lobbying, petitions, lawsuits and even political bribes. you start to realise that society only changes with these mentioned things and not due to placards and picnics

so people need to actually start using these methods and not just waste time organising picnics/chants

[BADecker]

your grammatical knitpick would have been more noted if you tried to distance yourself from the 'we' by saying you didnt mean yourself you meant US/humans in general

but you decided to embarrass yourself by trying to change your sentence to make it sound like your saying 'we got the vaccine' instead of 'we got vaccinated'
however even if you were to say 'we got the vaccine' the implication/meaning still ends up being the same thing
because when i say i 'got the vaccine'. i dont mean they handed me a vial i store in my fridge. i mean i was vaccinated

... in hand, still in the box.     

[franky1]

whats next..
badecker buys a placard and stores it in his basement
'i protested' [never left basement]

[TwitchySeal]

you were talking about the reaction to the boston tea party(342 boxes of tea thrown in the sea)
britain did send more tea and stil demanded more taxes. which even you noted as the intolerant acts

thats where your first  story ended

There were 3 or 4 (depending on if count the Quebec Act) Intolerable Acts (as in the Americans wouldn't tolerate them) that were a direct response to the Boston Tea Party.

The first one completely shut down Boston Harbor and ordered British troops to patrol the water and surrounding land to make sure no Colonists were allowed to import or export any of their goods overseas and ordered the colonists to pay for the Tea they threw in the harbor and compensate the tea company (owned by England) for all lost revenue.

The second one revoked the charter that allowed Massachusetts to somewhat govern itself.  They were no longer allowed to elect any local officials, they would all be appointed by the King instead.  They weren't even allowed to hold any sort of regular town meeting anymore.

The third allowed British Officers to stand trial in England rather than America.  Basically a get out of jail free card for British troops and appointed officials to do whatever they wanted without having to worry about being judged in America.

thats where your first  story ended

This isn't my story, it's literally the history of America.

England passed these acts hoping to stop any future protests.  As you know, that plan backfired.  The Intolerable Acts are what ultimately unified the 13 Colonies and persuaded enough Colonists to turn on Britain and by Fall 1774 (the Tea Party was in December) each Colony sent delegates to Philly for the first Continental Congress where they agreed to stand together against England.  If England wouldn't repeal all coercive acts, then all 13 colonies would boycott all English goods in protest.  I think this is where the petition you mentioned was drawn up, they called it the Continental Association.

King George basically said 'oh hell no' and, because of the second intolerable act (see above), Massachusetts was the place he decided to hold his ground (the other colonies still had some degree of independence, but he had declared MA basically part of England.)  In Spring of 1775 that's where the first shots were fired and the war began.  Without the support of the other 12 colonies, there's little doubt Massachusetts would've had a chance, they probably wouldn't have bothered to fight and just given in.  But because the colonies were united and willing to fight for the same cause and each other, that's not what happened.

Unifying many voices as one is what makes protests effective.  They make others aware of an issue they may not have known about, and if enough people agree - no government has any choice but to listen.  The Boston Tea Party wasn't a huge protest, but it was a catalyst for the Revolutionary War, which was in itself - just one big protest.  A revolution that did not fail at realizing it's desired outcome.

[Gyfts]

...

Ahh, the Boston Tea Party, one of my favorite American historical events because of the pettiness and successful retaliation against the British. Do not mess with the brits and their tea was the moral of the story, but also do not mess with Americans and their freedom.

Problem is today, most "revolutionists" don't have the same passion. They rally behind something no one cares about.

[franky1]

ok well you keep thinking 'unifying many voices as one' =throwing tea in the sea = the way to go...

meanwhile other people can unify in the legal system of actual petitions and resolutions and govern their area.

what you fail to see is
the tea party was just a group of men peed off that britain was selling tea cheaper than the blackmarket tea from other countries.
they also didnt like it when england was selling tea to cough 'pirates' cough who then sold indian tea as blackmarket tea for a premiium.

but this tea event. was not the sole trigger/response to cause the civil war/revolution. it was just the media story to hide the true causes

the tea party was october-dec 73.... where by they dunked the tea in december 73 after giving the captain a month..
a whole year later of nothing. no gunshots no battles no wars...
(thus non event)

then congress was formed and a petition was sent. sept 74
thats when the real drama unfolded. and within 5 months. britain backed down feb 75
when britain sent out the conciliatory resolution as a display of repealing the old acts

so if you want to play around and think that tealeaf soaking of 73 causes wars in 75.. you are reading the wrong stories

you are forgetting alot of detail in between

its a nice story to tell the kids '100 americans dunked tea in the sea and freed america'
but thats BS
look at the resolutions, petitions, formal representatives of legal matters and acts that occured behind the headlines

[TwitchySeal]

Problem is today, most "revolutionists" don't have the same passion. They rally behind something no one cares about.

I mean, we're kinda going through one of the largest movements in modern history.  It's ok to disagree with it, but think about how silly it is to say that nobody cares about the thing that ~20 million Americans (and millions more globally) are protesting... Not trying to get in another BLM argument with you, our views are irrelevant to my point.  People do care about it.  

but this tea event. was not the sole trigger/response to cause the civil war/revolution. it was just the media story to hide the true causes

You keep implying that I said it was.  This is the second or third time.  Knock it off please. I didn't say that and I've never heard anyone make that claim. And the Civil War was almost 100 years later.

but hey if you think throwing 3 ships load of tea boxes into the sea was the only and sole cause of a civil war. maybe your missing a few pieces of critical info in the middle

I don't.  Of course I don't.  Please don't do that, lets have an honest conversation.

[OgNasty]

A lot of time movements fail because of focusing on individuals instead of the movement.  This was something that satoshi feared and was a big part of why he constantly looked for ways to reward those who engaged while staying anonymous.  I believe if satoshi was discovered with concrete evidence, regardless of who he was or what his past was, horrible things would be said about him.  Narratives would be thought up to discredit him and make his invention appear self-serving.  They would find people from his past to make claims about him and harass him into no longer wanting to work on the project.  That's what people do...  In dying as an anonymous figure, satoshi saved the community from having to deal with this drama and allowed Bitcoin to dodge what would have been a helpless attack vector. 

Sometimes we have to focus on the idea and tune out the noise.  This is hard, because less intelligent people focus on individuals and they are the majority.  I stand by the belief that we should focus on ideas, be aware of events, and for the most part ignore people.

[franky1]

lets just use another example as it seems somes only reading half a history book and arguing about what he read rather than the big picture of this topic

so right now in the tigray region of ethiopia.. 2million people are displaced out of 7million
an election was held in november and the previous government are dismissing it
300k people are in famine due to purposefully stopping food transports to an area

..
meanwhile hundreds of thousands of people around the world are spending $10-$50 on their placard and picnic protests

imagine it $1-5mill being spent on placards to do with another country in famine. but $0 of that placard money.. $0.. zero ends up buying a single bottle of water for those in famine.

yea american protest it. and some dude that owns a woodshop is making mega bucks selling wood placards. but is he really actually helping solve the famine in ethiopia.. nah.

american defense and 3leter branches already know about the tigray struggles. so. placards and picnics are doing nothing.

even unicef is making megabucks providing aid.

but here is the thing
those people in Ethiopia wont get food any faster if they just stood on the streets with placards.
what they need to do is organise the community.
find out who is a truck driver. who owns a truck. and then organise locating and getting food for themselves.
even if it means crossing borders.

they need to come to some agreement with the government to find a peaceful resolution.
again this is not stand on the street with a placard
its actually pen to paper. make a list of both demands. and 'wants' and what they can offer in return

petition it. get signatures to show its a big enough deal. EG 300000 signatures of starving people.(too many to arrest or shoot)

placards and chanting fall on death ears..
which normally end up turning into unorganised chaos of guns and killing.
but smart decisive pen to paper petitions is the faster yet calmer rout to resolutions

[BADecker]

The biggest reason why revolutions and movements fail is, election rigging. The real question is, if they found ballots where a printer printed the election direction on multiple ballots, why would they need a new audit? If 20 audits find that the election was rigged, are they simply going after audit 21? Why not a new election, instead, because they have shown the first election was manipulated?


Georgia: Election authority finds photocopied ballots, pushes for new audit

Her statement should lead a federal judge to order a new audit.

The chief election official, Suzi Voyles, said she noticed very unusual similarities with large numbers of ballots during the election night recount, which caused her to look more closely. She said they all appeared to be identical photocopies of votes in favor of Democratic candidate Joe Biden, the Western Journal reported.

Voyles testified that each ballot contained evenly filled ovals, and each had an identical crescent-shaped "void" inside them, indicating that the ballots were not filled in with pencil or pen but with toner ink, she said.