📝[Discussion topic] Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns📝

[Lucius]

Maybe we may see more no-kyc exchanges in the future as platforms compete for the void e x c h left. 🤔

Let's see if that's true, and if the competition drives up weekly payment amounts. The thing is, it doesn't look like it's going to be a good year for it.

There is no competition here, more or less everyone pays the same, with the difference that there are campaigns for users who are satisfied with $60 per week and campaigns that pay $100+ per week. Imagine if a campaign appeared that offered $200 per week for Hero/Legendary and had 50 spots in it - all the top posters would move to it and the other campaigns would have a problem.

Of course, the chances of that happening are very small, why pay more when people will accept less.

[pawel7777]

(...)
The downside is that they don't pay much. The maximum weekly pay is $50, $60, and $70, respectively. Those days of mixer campaigns are long gone.

I'd say $70/week for 20 posts is still decent pay. But it's hard not to notice that pay rates have been declining since the mixers got banned.
It's even worse when you consider real inflation (loss of purchasing power) of the US Dollar. Pay rates almost never get adjusted for that as we all get used to operating in round numbers. Things could go further south because of the war with Iran, as it is expected that oil shortages will increase inflation globally + there's a risk of USD ceasing to be a major currency in which oil is traded.

[PX-Z]

I'd say $70/week for 20 posts is still decent pay. But it's hard not to notice that pay rates have been declining since the mixers got banned.

Pay rates start declining since the payment become usd rates and/or per post rates. Way back before it was fixed btc rate and 25 posts which sometimes range from $100-$200 in usd rate per week for hero and legendary. The last highest payment was chipmixer IIRC. After it was shut down and banning it, casino sites promoting piles up with usd rates.

[LTU_btc]

(...)
The downside is that they don't pay much. The maximum weekly pay is $50, $60, and $70, respectively. Those days of mixer campaigns are long gone.

I'd say $70/week for 20 posts is still decent pay. But it's hard not to notice that pay rates have been declining since the mixers got banned.
It's even worse when you consider real inflation (loss of purchasing power) of the US Dollar. Pay rates almost never get adjusted for that as we all get used to operating in round numbers. Things could go further south because of the war with Iran, as it is expected that oil shortages will increase inflation globally + there's a risk of USD ceasing to be a major currency in which oil is traded.

Yeah, $70 is ok, it'sactually a bit more than my current campaign rates. It's not that they're paying less than old existing campaigns. Not sure that's worth to compare rates with mixers, they were different kind of beast. And it's good that perople who don't want to promote gambling websites finally have some options.
But your point about inflation is really good. $70 now and 4 years ago, even 1 year ago isn't same, inflation affected it's value quiite significant and it's not the end if Trump will continue to make mess around the world.

[logfiles]

(...)
The downside is that they don't pay much. The maximum weekly pay is $50, $60, and $70, respectively. Those days of mixer campaigns are long gone.

I'd say $70/week for 20 posts is still decent pay. But it's hard not to notice that pay rates have been declining since the mixers got banned.

Volumes folks, Volumes.

Mixers had the ability to attract huge volumes of BTCs from clients. Someone would swap over 10 BTC like it's nothing and so those mixers had a lot of money to use for advertising. The new trustworthy exchanges are really trying to break through but every time on gets popular or gets volumes, it gets targeted by Law enforcements (read exch)
When you look at the reputation board right now, I think you can guess which service is the next target and from the sig campaign pay rates, you can tell that they have somehow got volumes

[pawel7777]

Volumes folks, Volumes.

Mixers had the ability to attract huge volumes of BTCs from clients. Someone would swap over 10 BTC like it's nothing and so those mixers had a lot of money to use for advertising. The new trustworthy exchanges are really trying to break through but every time on gets popular or gets volumes, it gets targeted by Law enforcements (read exch)
When you look at the reputation board right now, I think you can guess which service is the next target and from the sig campaign pay rates, you can tell that they have somehow got volumes

Yeah, but I think there might have been more factors at play there. The mixer that caused the ban was tied to North Korea, and I wouldn't be surprised if some other mixers were also operated by state intelligence/three-letter agencies.
It's just the high pay rates most of them would casually offer, which sometimes were much more than anyone would expect, was always a bit suspicious to me. It's not the type of behaviour you would normally see from for-profit businesses, which want the best value for their money and are not to keen to spend more than they have to. But with government agencies - if they don't use their budgets, they can get them cut in the next period.
Nevertheless, I still do miss mixers.

[LTU_btc]

Yeah, but I think there might have been more factors at play there. The mixer that caused the ban was tied to North Korea, and I wouldn't be surprised if some other mixers were also operated by state intelligence/three-letter agencies.
It's just the high pay rates most of them would casually offer, which sometimes were much more than anyone would expect, was always a bit suspicious to me. It's not the type of behaviour you would normally see from for-profit businesses, which want the best value for their money and are not to keen to spend more than they have to. But with government agencies - if they don't use their budgets, they can get them cut in the next period.
Nevertheless, I still do miss mixers.

Don't want to go into conspiracy about intelligence or agencies, but for me too it'sa bit strange that mixers were offering significantly higher rates than others. Volumes is one thing, but how much profit they make is another. Somehow I think that main gambling websites make bigger profits than most mixers, so, logically you can expect more money spent on marketing,but actually things were a bit different.

[mindrust]

Yeah, but I think there might have been more factors at play there. The mixer that caused the ban was tied to North Korea, and I wouldn't be surprised if some other mixers were also operated by state intelligence/three-letter agencies.
It's just the high pay rates most of them would casually offer, which sometimes were much more than anyone would expect, was always a bit suspicious to me. It's not the type of behaviour you would normally see from for-profit businesses, which want the best value for their money and are not to keen to spend more than they have to. But with government agencies - if they don't use their budgets, they can get them cut in the next period.
Nevertheless, I still do miss mixers.

Don't want to go into conspiracy about intelligence or agencies, but for me too it'sa bit strange that mixers were offering significantly higher rates than others. Volumes is one thing, but how much profit they make is another. Somehow I think that main gambling websites make bigger profits than most mixers, so, logically you can expect more money spent on marketing,but actually things were a bit different.

It isn’t really a rocket science.

Nobody in the right mind would deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars into an online casino to wash their money. First of all, that kind of volume will draw attention immediately and the casino will expect you to wager most of it, possibly all of it and 2-3 times before you are allowed to withdraw. Even if you manage to do it, play a high winrate game, win > withdraw, they can still find your actions suspicious and demand docs. Meaning it may only work once or twice.

With mixers, the idea works all the time. No kyc, instant transfers.. Imagine all the dirty money flowing into these platforms. The volume is huge, so are the profits.

That’s how they were capable of paying them fat bucks to the sig camp participants.

Casinos make nowhere near.

[LTU_btc]

It isn’t really a rocket science.

Nobody in the right mind would deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars into an online casino to wash their money. First of all, that kind of volume will draw attention immediately and the casino will expect you to wager most of it, possibly all of it and 2-3 times before you are allowed to withdraw. Even if you manage to do it, play a high winrate game, win > withdraw, they can still find your actions suspicious and demand docs. Meaning it may only work once or twice.

With mixers, the idea works all the time. No kyc, instant transfers.. Imagine all the dirty money flowing into these platforms. The volume is huge, so are the profits.

That’s how they were capable of paying them fat bucks to the sig camp participants.

Casinos make nowhere near.

I never used mixers andI have no idea what fees they have, so, I don't really know how much profit they can make. But is it really there is so many people who want to clean their hundreds of thousands $? Especially when we talk about not most popular mixer like Chipmixer was, but some smaller mixers who also had great rates on their sig campaigns.
Don't understimate how much money people are losing on crypto gambling websites. They also spend huge money on marketing, sponsoring many popular sport events, leagues or clubs.

[pawel7777]

(...)
Nobody in the right mind would deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars into an online casino to wash their money. First of all, that kind of volume will draw attention immediately and the casino will expect you to wager most of it, possibly all of it and 2-3 times before you are allowed to withdraw. Even if you manage to do it, play a high winrate game, win > withdraw, they can still find your actions suspicious and demand docs. Meaning it may only work once or twice.
(...)

I'm pretty sure the top casinos make way more money than the top mixers.
But you might have a good point in the sense that for the major casinos, advertising on this forum is just an additional form of advertisement, whereas for mixers it was the main way of attracting customers. So mixers had to go bold and make sure their brand is more visible than other mixing services.

[mrust_mobile]

It isn’t really a rocket science.

Nobody in the right mind would deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars into an online casino to wash their money. First of all, that kind of volume will draw attention immediately and the casino will expect you to wager most of it, possibly all of it and 2-3 times before you are allowed to withdraw. Even if you manage to do it, play a high winrate game, win > withdraw, they can still find your actions suspicious and demand docs. Meaning it may only work once or twice.

With mixers, the idea works all the time. No kyc, instant transfers.. Imagine all the dirty money flowing into these platforms. The volume is huge, so are the profits.

That’s how they were capable of paying them fat bucks to the sig camp participants.

Casinos make nowhere near.

I never used mixers andI have no idea what fees they have, so, I don't really know how much profit they can make. But is it really there is so many people who want to clean their hundreds of thousands $? Especially when we talk about not most popular mixer like Chipmixer was, but some smaller mixers who also had great rates on their sig campaigns.
Don't understimate how much money people are losing on crypto gambling websites. They also spend huge money on marketing, sponsoring many popular sport events, leagues or clubs.

That's the difference I am talking about.

With casinos, people are competing against the house. It is a competition. Players are trying to win, so are the casinos. The supply of money is limited to the player deposits. Is it getting bigger every day? Sure. There is a gambler born every second.

With mixers, there is a constant flow of dirty money that needs to be cleaned. The customers are paying a fee. They are not competing. This is a whole different game. This business is a river of dirty money which seeks an exit and those exits are getting hunted all the time. Meaning > enormous demand, nearly non-existent supply. > YUUUGE PROFITZ > fat sig camp buckz

[NeuroticFish]

With mixers, there is a constant flow of dirty money that needs to be cleaned. The customers are paying a fee. They are not competing. This is a whole different game. This business is a river of dirty money which seeks an exit.

You seem to be missing some big points here.

The mixers are not only about dirty money. There are quite a lot of people who simply don't want everybody to know how big their stash is and where it's located.
And of course, mixers are not the only way to handle privacy, also they're not the only way to get rid of dirty money. Not mentioning that in quite some cases you may get arguably "cleaner" money from mixers than from certain exchanges (the mixed money may get flagged "only" as mixer, while the money from the exchange may say x% hack/stolen - which is not a big deal if that x% is not too big). And - you know - all this "dirty money" story is a big ugly mess, since sooner or later all the money in circulation will have a % of dirty money in it.

Also in the case of casinos, you may have heard that "the house always wins". There's a small percent there making the casino mathematically have an edge, no matter what. And with big volumes they cannot lose (that % beats the random variation).

So the actual difference between casinos and mixers is imho that casinos are certain to be profitable only on big volumes, the mixers may be profitable on any volumes (after the initial costs are covered), not about dirty money (since casino money also gets flagged by exchanges).

[tabas]

I'd like to reply on hugeblack's post on the official overview thread since it's not allowed to discuss there as per mitchell and by the thread's rule.

This is the lowest-paying campaign in the forum's history; does anyone know if it's the first?

It's cheaper than some altcointalks campaigns, which is a bad sign that campaign managers should consider, along with its potential future implications.

It's a $1 per post and I think that there were lower ones than $1 per post in the past, its max post is 20 and the rate is just the same in some campaigns in the altstalks but their max post is 30. Anyway, campaigns are incentives in the forum however amount they pay and the managers had to adjust for the standards and longevity of the campaign depending on their client's budget.

[LTU_btc]

I'd like to reply on hugeblack's post on the official overview thread since it's not allowed to discuss there as per mitchell and by the thread's rule.

This is the lowest-paying campaign in the forum's history; does anyone know if it's the first?

It's cheaper than some altcointalks campaigns, which is a bad sign that campaign managers should consider, along with its potential future implications.

It's a $1 per post and I think that there were lower ones than $1 per post in the past, its max post is 20 and the rate is just the same in some campaigns in the altstalks but their max post is 30. Anyway, campaigns are incentives in the forum however amount they pay and the managers had to adjust for the standards and longevity of the campaign depending on their client's budget.

I might be wrong, but I think there was campaigns with lower rates than $1 per post, but I'm too lazy to make research. Well, I guess you always can find people who will join for such rates - $20 is still better than nothing. I'm only wondering what kind of users you can get with such rates, it will be difficult to get quality. Even in higher paying campaigns there is enough people who prpobably shouldn't be there.

[tabas]

It's a $1 per post and I think that there were lower ones than $1 per post in the past, its max post is 20 and the rate is just the same in some campaigns in the altstalks but their max post is 30. Anyway, campaigns are incentives in the forum however amount they pay and the managers had to adjust for the standards and longevity of the campaign depending on their client's budget.

I might be wrong, but I think there was campaigns with lower rates than $1 per post, but I'm too lazy to make research. Well, I guess you always can find people who will join for such rates - $20 is still better than nothing. I'm only wondering what kind of users you can get with such rates, it will be difficult to get quality. Even in higher paying campaigns there is enough people who prpobably shouldn't be there.

Yes, there were probably a lot of them in the past whether they're based on $ or BTC per post at that time when the price of BTC was still quite low. As long as there are these incentives/campaigns, there will be joiners to make and the high quality managers still have their strategy to be applied in the process.

[Forsyth Jones]

Yes, there were probably a lot of them in the past whether they're based on $ or BTC per post at that time when the price of BTC was still quite low. As long as there are these incentives/campaigns, there will be joiners to make and the high quality managers still have their strategy to be applied in the process.

I keep wondering, what if casinos are also banned from advertising campaigns here on the forum? Who will take the space left by them? Instant-exchanges, although great candidates, appear very little or don't last that long.

[salad daging]

I keep wondering, what if casinos are also banned from advertising campaigns here on the forum? Who will take the space left by them? Instant-exchanges, although great candidates, appear very little or don't last that long.

There must first be a reason why gambling advertisements are banned on forums, if for example all countries ban gambling then it is possible that forums will do the same, because it is considered a crime and money laundering, so it is no different from mixers that are completely banned in various countries, this also applies to forums.

[tabas]

Yes, there were probably a lot of them in the past whether they're based on $ or BTC per post at that time when the price of BTC was still quite low. As long as there are these incentives/campaigns, there will be joiners to make and the high quality managers still have their strategy to be applied in the process.

I keep wondering, what if casinos are also banned from advertising campaigns here on the forum? Who will take the space left by them? Instant-exchanges, although great candidates, appear very little or don't last that long.

That's true, instant exchanges might replace them but many of them really don't stay for so long. We're now passed through with the btc paying altcoin projects during the craze of icos before and the same goes with the mixers. So, they won't be an option anymore aside from the exchanges. So that incentive for all of us comes mostly from casinos these days and they're likely to dominate the campaigns in the long run.

[logfiles]

I keep wondering, what if casinos are also banned from advertising campaigns here on the forum? Who will take the space left by them? Instant-exchanges, although great candidates, appear very little or don't last that long.

There must first be a reason why gambling advertisements are banned on forums, if for example all countries ban gambling then it is possible that forums will do the same, because it is considered a crime and money laundering, so it is no different from mixers that are completely banned in various countries, this also applies to forums.

Notice how crypto casinos have not been targeted by law enforcement through sanctions, domain seizures and fines unlike what used to happen to mixers and crypto exchanges?

It's because law enforcement thinks casinos are another scope of business where money laundering may not be possible or is very minimal but once for so-called "North Korean Hackers" start moving their money through crypto casinos, that right there will make them become a target from LE. Mixing coins was never banned in most countries by the way.

[LTU_btc]

I keep wondering, what if casinos are also banned from advertising campaigns here on the forum? Who will take the space left by them? Instant-exchanges, although great candidates, appear very little or don't last that long.

If casinos would be banned from Bitcointalk one day, I don't think that we would get equal replacement for them. Other kind of business can come here now to advertise, but we see very little them here. Don't see what would change after ban. Other kind of business just don't have such big marketing budgets.
Maybe we would see some extra campaigns appear, but probably they would offer lower rrates than gambling campaigns.

There must first be a reason why gambling advertisements are banned on forums, if for example all countries ban gambling then it is possible that forums will do the same, because it is considered a crime and money laundering, so it is no different from mixers that are completely banned in various countries, this also applies to forums.

There is no need to ban gambling around the world. It would be enough if most of crypto gambling websites will become illegal in many jurisdictions. Governments don't really like all these crypto gambling websites who don't pay taxes because they're registered somewhere in offshore country.