Legacy Wallet on Android app?

[o_e_l_e_o]

What open source Linux distro do you recommend?

Do you have any experience with Linux? If not, then Linux Mint is probably the most user friendly, especially if you are coming from a life of using Windows. Elementary OS is probably the best if you are more familiar with MacOS. If you think you can handle something a little more, then Ubuntu is probably the most well known and widely used distro.

If you want to go for maximum security and privacy for your airgapped wallet, though, then I would probably opt for Tails. There is a bit of learning curve here though, as Tails is designed to leave no traces behind and will not save anything between sessions unless you specifically set up persistent storage. Tails will automatically encrypt your persistent storage. You can read a guide here: https://tails.boum.org/doc/first_steps/persistence/index.en.html

If you don't use Tails, then you will need to look in to encrypting your wallet file some other way, as otherwise anyone who can gain physical access to your airgapped computer could steal all your coins.

I'm sure other users will completely disagree with me and can provide other recommendations though. Such is the nature of the myriad of Linux distros.

[undefinedd]

As someone already said, I can't import my seed because the phone wallet only allows english words. I don't know why make it like this tho. So yeah, I will have to create another wallet and transfer the funds there.

Your seed is a BIP39 one, isn't it?

If you don't want to go with that way, which is not recommended unless you want to save some sats from the transaction fee, you should do the following;

1) Open bip-0039.
2) Open two tabs, one will be the English wordlist and the other your language's wordlist.
3) Find the line of your first word from your language's mnemonic. Then go on that line from the english wordlist. That will be your english word. Redo it for every word.

Example:

(Your language's word)
https://i.imgur.com/DuYxHYx.png

(The english word of the same position)
https://i.imgur.com/fWmILbx.png

Oh, I see, I will try that so I don't have to generate a new seed. Maybe I should download the txt files to an offline computer just to be safe.
Thanks!

What open source Linux distro do you recommend?

Do you have any experience with Linux? If not, then Linux Mint is probably the most user friendly, especially if you are coming from a life of using Windows. Elementary OS is probably the best if you are more familiar with MacOS. If you think you can handle something a little more, then Ubuntu is probably the most well known and widely used distro.

If you want to go for maximum security and privacy for your airgapped wallet, though, then I would probably opt for Tails. There is a bit of learning curve here though, as Tails is designed to leave no traces behind and will not save anything between sessions unless you specifically set up persistent storage. Tails will automatically encrypt your persistent storage. You can read a guide here: https://tails.boum.org/doc/first_steps/persistence/index.en.html

If you don't use Tails, then you will need to look in to encrypting your wallet file some other way, as otherwise anyone who can gain physical access to your airgapped computer could steal all your coins.

I'm sure other users will completely disagree with me and can provide other recommendations though. Such is the nature of the myriad of Linux distros.

I never used Linux, but I can learn pretty quickly this kind of stuff. I will have to use the persistent storage otherwise the wallet would be deleted anytime I start the PC?

I don't think I need that kind of encryption anyway, right? The wallet has a simple password just in case anyone grabs my laptop for a couple of minutes.
And in the case the laptop gets stolen, I can just transfer the funds to another wallet if I want to be extra safe. Right?

[hosseinimr93]

Oh, I see, I will try that so I don't have to generate a new seed.

For accessing your fund, you don't have to generate a new seed. But for storing your fund securely, you need to generate a new seed phrase and move all your fund to your new wallet.
I recommend you to follow BlackHatCoiner's suggestion to access you fund. After that, create a new wallet and move all your fund to it.
Since you are worry about security of your copay wallet, you shouldn't use the seed generated by that wallet anymore. You don't know whether your seed phrase has been stored on their server or not.

[HCP]

Ubuntu has the advantage of being quite popular so there are literally hundreds of guides around on how to install, configure and use it...

Are you considering using Electrum as your airgapped wallet? If so, the Electrum docs have an ok guide on how to set up the wallet side of things after you get your OS etc sorted. https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

Basically, you just create a "standard" wallet on the airgapped machine, then a "watching-only" wallet using the "xpub" on your online machine... It's not terribly difficult.

The real issue is making sure you properly airgap the machine (ensuring no networking/wifi etc after the OS is setup and BEFORE you create the wallets)

[undefinedd]

Ubuntu has the advantage of being quite popular so there are literally hundreds of guides around on how to install, configure and use it...

Are you considering using Electrum as your airgapped wallet? If so, the Electrum docs have an ok guide on how to set up the wallet side of things after you get your OS etc sorted. https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

Basically, you just create a "standard" wallet on the airgapped machine, then a "watching-only" wallet using the "xpub" on your online machine... It's not terribly difficult.

The real issue is making sure you properly airgap the machine (ensuring no networking/wifi etc after the OS is setup and BEFORE you create the wallets)

Thanks for the link! Yes, I will use Electrum because of the standard and watch-only wallets. So then I can sign my transactions in the airgapped machine. I was just looking for a new wallet in bitcoin.org but if there is a better wallet for this I am all ears

My plan is to download (from another pc) Linux and the wallet to a pendrive, and install it that way. Remove the wifi adapter of the laptop so it can't go online.

If I use Electrum on the airgapped laptop and for some reason in the future I want to change the wallet app on my phone (the "watching-only" one). Can I do it? Or would I have to change the wallet on the laptop too? How compatible is this "watching-only" feature from Electrum to other wallets? Because I think I read that the xpub thing is an Electrum thing only.

Thanks

[o_e_l_e_o]

I never used Linux, but I can learn pretty quickly this kind of stuff. I will have to use the persistent storage otherwise the wallet would be deleted anytime I start the PC?

Sounds like Ubuntu is probably your best choice then.

And in the case the laptop gets stolen, I can just transfer the funds to another wallet if I want to be extra safe. Right?

Provided you have access to your seed phrase to recover your full wallet, then yes. Your watch only wallet cannot move any coins on its own.

If I use Electrum on the airgapped laptop and for some reason in the future I want to change the wallet app on my phone (the "watching-only" one). Can I do it? Or would I have to change the wallet on the laptop too? How compatible is this "watching-only" feature from Electrum to other wallets? Because I think I read that the xpub thing is an Electrum thing only.

xpubs are not unique to Electrum by any means. You should be able to change your phone wallet to any other piece of software which supports watch only wallets without issue, but many wallets do not provide this functionality.

[HCP]

While xpubs may not be unique... the derivation path for Electrum (m/0') arguably is.

So, you would need to find a wallet that supports importing xpubs to create a watching only wallet and either allows you to specify a custom derivation paths, or supports the electrum specific derivation paths.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So, you would need to find a wallet that supports importing xpubs to create a watching only wallet and either allows you to specify a custom derivation paths, or supports the electrum specific derivation paths.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it shouldn't matter.

Most of the time, when people talk about master public keys, they actually mean account extended public keys. Your actual master public key isn't actually that useful since the majority of wallets use hardened derivation somewhere in their standard derivation paths, meaning your master public key cannot generate these addresses.

When Electrum displays your xpub or zpub, it is displaying your account extended public key at either m for legacy (which is in fact your master public key) or at m/0' for segwit. It then derives addresses at /0/0 for both. If you import either the xpub or zpub to some BIP39 software, then it should assume that you have already used the path m/44'/0'/0' or m/84'/0'/0', and also derive addresses at /0/0.

If I create a new segwit Electrum wallet, take the zpub, go to Ian Coleman, paste it in to the BIP32 Root Key box, select BIP141, and then derive at m/0/0, the addresses match.

[HCP]

That's a good point... I guess it really depends on the specific wallet implementation and what they're doing. I haven't really experimented with using "other" apps to create watching wallets (at least not recently enough that my goldfish memory can remember), so I can't comment on an specific wallets.

I am most likely getting things backwards and remembering that you need to remember to use m/0/0 when taking xpubs and putting them into Ian Coleman's tool because they are account extended keys and not root keys!

[undefinedd]

As someone already said, I can't import my seed because the phone wallet only allows english words. I don't know why make it like this tho. So yeah, I will have to create another wallet and transfer the funds there.

Your seed is a BIP39 one, isn't it?

If you don't want to go with that way, which is not recommended unless you want to save some sats from the transaction fee, you should do the following;

1) Open bip-0039.
2) Open two tabs, one will be the English wordlist and the other your language's wordlist.
3) Find the line of your first word from your language's mnemonic. Then go on that line from the english wordlist. That will be your english word. Redo it for every word.

Example:

(Your language's word)
https://i.imgur.com/DuYxHYx.png

(The english word of the same position)
https://i.imgur.com/fWmILbx.png

Hello guys, I'm back.

I finally did everything you guys told me, I did this to translate my mnemonic phrase, the checksum was ok. I imported that into an airgapped laptop I have, then I went to wallet - information, and gather the master public key. In my android phone, I opened electrum - new - standard wallet -  use a master key, and put it there.

But the balance appears as 0 BTC.

What am I doing wrong?

In the offline wallet when I entered the translated phrase I used the BIP39 seed option, which I believe its what Copay used.

I still have access to my funds, so in the worst case scenario I can just transfer them to a new wallet. But I wanted to know how to use the offline/airgapped wallet/laptop so I can sign my transactions like this in the future.

[undefinedd]

I'm seeing online that the special characters might fuck the BIP39 seed phrase. Maybe its that, I will just create a new wallet and transfer the funds there I guess.

[hosseinimr93]

What am I doing wrong?

In electrum, go to "Addresses" tab and check your addresses there. Are they same as the addresses Copay give you?
If no, the problem may be with the derivation path. There's a possibility that copay has generated the addresses on a different derivation path.

Note: If "Addresses" tab is not available in electrum, click on "View" at top of the window and select "Show addresses".

[BitMaxz]

Just adding this from the post above posted by hosseinimr93

If you can't find the right derivation path of your wallet you can use a tool like https://www.blockpath.com/r/Blockpath/comments/2r/blockpath_app_xpub_analyzer/

Since you already have the master public key you can paste it on that tool to find used addresses that includes all exact derivation path.

[undefinedd]

What am I doing wrong?

In electrum, go to "Addresses" tab and check your addresses there. Are they same as the addresses Copay give you?
If no, the problem may be with the derivation path. There's a possibility that copay has generated the addresses on a different derivation path.

Note: If "Addresses" tab is not available in electrum, click on "View" at top of the window and select "Show addresses".

Hello, thanks for the help. I guess I have to use "legacy" after inputing the seed right? Is the only one that gives me addresses with the "1" infront (all the addresses on Copay appear like this)

When I use the option "nativesegwit", it gives me addresses with bc1, and copay only shows "1"

And the other option gives addresses with a "3" infront.


So, I use legacy wallet option, but the addresses are not the same. In the Electrum app it only gives "unused" addresses ofc. But still not the same.

[undefinedd]

Just adding this from the post above posted by hosseinimr93

If you can't find the right derivation path of your wallet you can use a tool like https://www.blockpath.com/r/Blockpath/comments/2r/blockpath_app_xpub_analyzer/

Since you already have the master public key you can paste it on that tool to find used addresses that includes all exact derivation path.

I used the site with the "xpub" address that Electrum generates when choosing "legacy" wallet after importing the seed and it says "No Used Addresses Found "

[undefinedd]

Ok, I found out that Copay also gives me the xpub address, and is different from the one I get from the Electrum offline wallet that I get from translating the seed phrase. So I guess something is not working there.

In Copay it says that the derivation strategy is BIP44.

[nc50lc]

-snip-

Hello guys, I'm back.

I finally did everything you guys told me, I did this to translate my mnemonic phrase, the checksum was ok. I imported that into an airgapped laptop I have, then I went to wallet - information, and gather the master public key. In my android phone, I opened electrum - new - standard wallet -  use a master key, and put it there.

But the balance appears as 0 BTC.

What am I doing wrong?

It's because it wont work in the first place.
In BIP39, the "mnemonic sentence" itself will be used to generate the seed (binary seed), not the 'entropy' where the words are based.
So if you translate them just based from the position in the wordlist, it will generate a valid seed phrase but an entirely different wallet.

What you want to do is to paste your BIP39 seed phrase to an offline instance of iancoleman's BIP39 tool (iancoleman.io/bip39/, read "Offline usage").
Then select BIP44 tab below, and copy "Account Extended Private Key" that starts with "xprv".
Use that to restore your wallet to your Electrum by selecting: "Standard wallet->Use a master key" and it should generate the same set of addresses as long your Copay wallet is using the default derivation path for BIP44.

(see when you change language in 'BIP39 tool', it uses the same entropy to translate the seed phrase in other language but the "BIP39 Seed" below it changes)

[undefinedd]

-snip-

Hello guys, I'm back.

I finally did everything you guys told me, I did this to translate my mnemonic phrase, the checksum was ok. I imported that into an airgapped laptop I have, then I went to wallet - information, and gather the master public key. In my android phone, I opened electrum - new - standard wallet -  use a master key, and put it there.

But the balance appears as 0 BTC.

What am I doing wrong?

It's because it wont work in the first place.
In BIP39, the "mnemonic sentence" itself will be used to generate the seed (binary seed), not the 'entropy' where the words are based.
So if you translate them just based from the position in the wordlist, it will generate a valid seed phrase but an entirely different wallet.

What you want to do is to paste your BIP39 seed phrase to an offline instance of iancoleman's BIP39 tool (iancoleman.io/bip39/, read "Offline usage").
Then select BIP44 tab below, and copy "Account Extended Private Key" that starts with "xprv".
Use that to restore your wallet to your Electrum by selecting: "Standard wallet->Use a master key" and it should generate the same set of addresses as long your Copay wallet is using the default derivation path for BIP44.

(see when you change language in 'BIP39 tool', it uses the same entropy to translate the seed phrase in other language but the "BIP39 Seed" below it changes)

Thanks, that was it! It worked perfectly.

It kinda sucks that Electrum uses a different type of seed. I would love to use a more "common standard" just in case I want to use a different wallet in the future.

Is it a good idea to add an extra word to the seedphrase? Like a really easy word that I won't forget, so someone that came across my seed (and knows what those words are) wouldn't be able to just open his phone and steal my funds right away.

[nc50lc]

Is it a good idea to add an extra word to the seedphrase? Like a really easy word that I won't forget, so someone that came across my seed (and knows what those words are) wouldn't be able to just open his phone and steal my funds right away.

You're talking about a new wallet right?

That is the actual use-case of the "seed word extension" so, yes.
But I'd make a separate offline backup of the passphrase (the extra word) just in case because it's not really reliable to keep it "in brain" alone.

[undefinedd]

Is it a good idea to add an extra word to the seedphrase? Like a really easy word that I won't forget, so someone that came across my seed (and knows what those words are) wouldn't be able to just open his phone and steal my funds right away.

You're talking about a new wallet right?

That is the actual use-case of the "seed word extension" so, yes.
But I'd make a separate offline backup of the passphrase (the extra word) just in case because it's not really reliable to keep it in one's memory alone.

Yes, a new wallet. I want to create a new wallet in this airgapped laptop to be completely sure nobody knows the seed phrase.


Any thoughts on generating a BIP39 mnemonic sentence with for example the Ian Coleman tool (in the offline laptop ofcourse)? So if in the future I want to use another wallet I could just import that phrase? Or I should just stick with the "Electrum mnemonic sentence" and the Electrum wallet? And in the future if I want to change wallet I would just transfer all the funds I guess.

Thanks for the help