Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base?

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Isn't it good that bitcointalk new signup are low as now people are less attractive to make alt accounts and most of the new accounts are from different individuals and not from a single person farming accounts ?

The concern here is about the genuine individual not joining the forum due to one reason or another been discussed above. If you read through you can see some concerning reasons been highlighted like the evil fees, better interface of alternative forum etc. That the signups are low doesn't automatically mean that those singing up aren't alternative account. If I was to propose a hypothesis basing my assumption on majority of the reasons for low turn up of members mentioned above been correct then I'll say the signups coming in are majorly alts and not the other way round as you're proposing but that's a topic for another day.

Remember how clubhouse users hit the roof when Elon Musk tweeted about it. That's the kind of publicity the forum needs.

We don't need such publicity as we didn't need one in the first place to get to this level, the success of Bitcoin is enough publicity for the forum. The forum just needs to put other things in place (shape) and everything will be back on track. If such publicity are made then the forum will just be a ground for spammers and quick money seekers giving the forum more trouble to handle.

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[dkbit98]

Are there any other Bitcoin and crypto forums, with more ''modern'' themes, that are better or more active than Bitcointalk?
- No.
I am not sure that adding a mobile theme and improving search engine would make a drastic change, but we could use some refresh like big tech are doing all the time with their websites.
We should also not forget the fact that people die and move on to other things all the time like Satoshi did, and we shouldn't be surprised by this.
New people are generally young generation with short attention span, more suitable for tiktok and stuff like that 
 

[fillippone]

Are there any other Bitcoin and crypto forums, with more ''modern'' themes, that are better or more active than Bitcointalk?
- No.
I am not sure that adding a mobile theme and improving search engine would make a drastic change, but we could use some refresh like big tech are doing all the time with their websites.
We should also not forget the fact that people die and move on to other things all the time like Satoshi did, and we shouldn't be surprised by this.
New people are generally young generation with short attention span, more suitable for tiktok and stuff like that 
 

Thank you all who wrote in this thread all your ideas. I am going to update the op with a summary of contribution later during the weekend.

I am answering this particular message almost by chance, but it is particularly on the point: I am not complaining old user moved on with their lives. This is perfectly understandable and relatable.
 
I am complaining I can’t see new users coming in. And while I do agree newer (younger) user might be prone to short attention span, I refuse to think we cannot engage a few thousands people all over the world interested in bitcoin to write a merit worth post monthly in this forum.
This is what worries me the most: a community not able to engage new members is eventually going to die.
And I think that day it would be a sad one.

[Pmalek]

Honestly, i don't like writing article solely for SEO. The article usually have mediocre quality and not really helpful. We better learn few thing from Stack Overflow/Stack Exchange (https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/14056). They have good SEO, while maintain content quality and doesn't create article solely for 1st result on search engine.

As you pointed out, it can be done. Targeting top spot might be too much, but having the forum appear on the first page of search results for certain keywords is doable with a quality SEO team.

Another thing that probably attracted more people to bitcointalk are altcoins; from my experience, new people tend to get into altcoins first (looking for quick profit) and then later on focus more on bitcoin.

Good point. I am sure many of our currently active members started out collecting a few alts and shitcoins along the way. As the time passed, they either made some profit or learned from their mistakes and moved to bitcoin. But 2017/2018 was a long time ago.

A third friend managed to register and luckily didn’t get the message that an evil fee should be paid but as soon as he started posting on this forum he was severely attacked by other members for a couple of unintentional, beginner mistakes he made like restarting an old thread that he simply gave up and said he would never return to this forum again.

That happens unfortunately and I have seen it as well. We, the elders can be tough sometimes when freshlings start breaking the rules. Some are justifiably put in their place, while some, like your friend, receive too harsh of a treatment.

I can't imagine how this forum will have any user appeal if altcoins (bounty) are removed.

That won't happen. Even with all the problems the altcoin boards bring, theymos and the admins are well aware of how much appeal it has to many people and I don't see them cutting off their hand.

Also, I don't think that Bitcointalk is losing it's user base, there are new users in the forum that are slowly making merits and making a name for themselves, it's a slow burn so there's nothing to worry about.

It's not really a matter of opinion. You have stats in the OP of this thread and several other threads that show a decrease in activity and active users. Those can't be overlooked and ignored by having a different opinion.

[BITCOIN4X]

~Snip
Remember how clubhouse users hit the roof when Elon Musk tweeted about it. That's the kind of publicity the forum needs.

I may not agree with your opinion. Based on the bpip.org site, currently the number of profiles registered on the forum has reached 3,357,216 profile (the accuracy is not known for certain) and it is proof that the bitcointalk.org forum has received quite a lot of enthusiasm from people who come. with different purposes. Only 122,859 profile are currently tracked as active profiles and the rest are inactive and archived.

There is a correlation between the price of bitcoin (bearish and bullish) and the user base of the forum. During the bullish period, most of the new users logged in and some of the old members became active so the increase in the user base became noticeable. The opposite also happens when the price is bearish, the interest of new users begin to shrink and old users fall asleep. I think they are trader or investor who only use this forum for the purpose of getting information about trading and other thing that can be used as fundamental.

So I don't think that one should create hype to increase the user base of the bitcointalk forum. But it will happen naturally when the pump period starts again. Apart from some of the factors I mentioned, the price of bitcoin also has an impact on the active user base on the forum.

That won't happen. Even with all the problems the altcoin boards bring, theymos and the admins are well aware of how much appeal it has to many people and I don't see them cutting off their hand.

Right, I know that. At least it won't happen on forums but it's still possible to make it more restrictive, right?

[AverageGlabella]

Its funny that you wrote this thread as this is something I have been concerned about for a while if you note down the number of reddit subscribers at /r/Bitcoin and note down how many members are here on Bitcointalk you will see that the sub reddit is growing at a quicker rate. I am not sure how we are going to compete with forums and reddit which allow more text like speak but I would like to see theymos put something together. If signature campaigns disappear from the thread or die down a little bit then the forum would lose yet another part of its appeal.

[Upgrade00]

This is quite an interesting thread with lots of similarly interesting opinions; The charts in the OP does show a progressively decreasing engagement in merit exchanges which could be indicative of a decrease in overall engagements, but previous higher numbers may not be something to miss as the forum has for long been filled with spammers leading to changes like the newbie jail and enhanced newbie requirements and the early period of the merit launch led to the growth of lots of account farms - Not all traffic is beneficial.

About users losing interest; This could be due to the retro forum layout which is a bit difficult to navigate for someone new to the forum, I can remember how alien this forum looked to me in my first few weeks here, but anyone who is truly interested in Bitcoin should be interested in this forum, regardless.
As the OP mentioned, there are lots of useful information here and members do not have to be active or even logged in to access them, if I didn't have much to contribute, I could simply use this forum as a digital library for Bitcoin and my presence would not be felt, I can imagine some use it this way.

Does the administration need to do anything to influence traffic?
No, in my opinion. Bitcoin does not change with the times and does not market itself, this forum is a reflection of Bitcoin and should mimick it.
Comparing bitcointalk to other forums is not necessary imo, as any other forum run the way this is would have lost almost all of their userbase, regular social platforms constantly market their service and make regular changes to their software, btt on the other hand has had the exact same outlook for over ten years with no updates, but still retains a good number of active users.
As I've mentioned in another thread, a new forum software would not matter much in attracting new users, but only to add changes that majority of members have been requesting.

[NotATether]

SEO (ffs), etc.

The forum has hundreds of bitcoins, why not use a tiny bit of that to create some search engine optimized content to get the forum to rank a bit better for certain keywords/keyphrases? The services board has dozens of content writers, some of them certainly know how to write SEO content, and if not, someone could be found for such a task.   

AFAIK, topic OPs are the only posts that rank on google search. And those that do (mostly in the technical, ANN, and service boards), are usually in the top 10 results because of Bitcointalk's very high domain authority (89).

[AverageGlabella]

Does anyone have any accurate data on the amount of active members in the Bitcoin boards?

Does the administration need to do anything to influence traffic?
No, in my opinion. Bitcoin does not change with the times and does not market itself, this forum is a reflection of Bitcoin and should mimick it.
Comparing bitcointalk to other forums is not necessary imo, as any other forum run the way this is would have lost almost all of their userbase, regular social platforms constantly market their service and make regular changes to their software, btt on the other hand has had the exact same outlook for over ten years with no updates, but still retains a good number of active users.
As I've mentioned in another thread, a new forum software would not matter much in attracting new users, but only to add changes that majority of members have been requesting.

I do not agree that Bitcointalk should mimic Bitcoin they are completely separate entities and are different in the ways they grow. If we carry on with the current user projection then Bitcointalk would need to advertise to try something to try and get more people registering. If you take a look at the forum currently you will see there is a lack of new members and only existing members contributing to discussions. Over time these existing members will leave for different reasons and if we are not replacing those members with new members then the forum will quickly become a ghost town. Even when Bitcoin hit a new ATH the amount of new accounts being registered was much less this time than in 2017 so something is definitely effecting that.

[Saidasun]

I am complaining I can’t see new users coming in. And while I do agree newer (younger) user might be prone to short attention span, I refuse to think we cannot engage a few thousands people all over the world interested in bitcoin to write a merit worth post monthly in this forum.
This is what worries me the most: a community not able to engage new members is eventually going to die.
And I think that day it would be a sad one.

I think this community in its current state is not very welcoming for new members and that will effect the amount of people are register but also the people who do register might not want to engage out of fear of hostilities. I am not branding the whole community as being unwelcoming because there are definitely people out there that make it like their goal to welcome new members into the community but overall I do think there is a problem there even if it is the minority. The only way we are going to correct that is by more senior members correcting their behaviors. As for attracting new members I do not think theymos or any of the staff are going to do anything but as a community we could organize things. Hell the only thing that seems to work around here is signature campaigns so maybe we could do a community funded advertising campaign for those that have big followings and pay them for sponsored content or we could fund raise as a community and pay for advertising ourselves but I would like to see some of the forum funds used for this.

Whatever the solution we need to find one as the forum is slowly but certainly losing its members.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Forum are more of a slow rhythm, deep tought, knowledge intensive conversations (yeah WO thread included), while other media look to me more like instant gut-feeling dominated brawls.

I couldn't agree with you more about your analysis of what bitcointalk is compared to the social media sites you mentioned, and I hope this forum doesn't start pandering to the zero-attention span crowd (and I'm not sure how that would be accomplished, but I'm sure it could).  Admittedly, my own attention span is asymptotically approaching the zero point, but with bitcointalk being what it is, it forces me to slow down, read, and put effort into what I write.  Anyone should should do the same when making posts, whether they're in a bounty/campaign or not.

• mobile theme. Allowing decent navigation from mobiles (something I already expressed in my interview

This is probably the only suggestion of yours that I'm 100% behind.  Cross-posting on Reddit and other sites I don't personally care about and would be fine with, but there are a lot of users who access the forum on their smartphones and I've done so myself in the past--and it's a pain in the ass trying to navigate the site without it being mobile-friendly.  Even if that new forum software never comes out, the least Theymos could do to improve things is to make a mobile-friendly version of the site.  That could be done prior to releasing whatever changes he has planned with the upgraded software I'm sure.

On the merit front, I still think it's a bit too early to judge whether Theymos's recent changes have had or are going to have a significant effect on the number of merits being distributed.  And whether or not there is such an effect, I don't hear too many members bitching about not being able to rank up--certainly not like they used to a couple of years ago.  So I hope the changes help, but if they don't, I'm not convinced it'll be a crisis for the forum as a whole.

[Stedsm]

Merit givers aren't giving merits because there aren't any valuable discussions that deserve merits, else I don't think that merit givers are doing it any bad. The ones who are leaving are maybe because either they are fed up of the merits system (which was released to actually weed out those parties who don't post with constructiveness), or they are not seeing any more campaigns coming online because of the exhaustion of companies maybe or such are scared to come up with BTC campaigns following highly volatile moves being seen in it nowadays (maybe). I believe that if it's losing some users, then they either don't deserve to be here or they have lost interest in crypto (again, maybe) or they've become too busy IRL to come here.

[skarais]

I also took the same steps to make a little analysis about the activities of local board and also about the sustainability of the forum and its users for local Indonesian board.
1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5209309.0
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5348298.0

Since theymos implementing merit as a new requirement for rank and rating quality post in 2018, I've seen a decline in the forum's user base exacerbated by bounty situation, most of which ended in scam. Many local Indonesian users stopped posting and left their account especially users with low rank. That condition lasted throughout 2018 until the price of bitcoin and most altcoin began to rise in 2020.

What do you think? Do you think forum is losing userbase and this is a bad thing? Are there other reasons this is happening and other solutions?

Yes, I have seen a decrease in the user base. Even though the number of registered account has exceeded 3 million, I'm sure there are still many old users who leave this forum.

I also found data showing a decrease in the number of merit distributed on the local board as well as the number of users involved in the merit cycle since I updated that thread every month since 2021 whose data I retrieved from the DdmrDdmr Merit Dashboard. Of course it is not the best condition if we have a number of merit source scattered throughout the forum and some of them are also representative of their respective local board. But I think this is not only happening in local board, but globally this decline is clearly shown based on merit dashboard data.

I just hope that once the merit source is increased to 111 users, there will be an increase in the number of users involved in merit distribution and encourage users who have never used sMerit before to get involved in this cycle. The forum's user base may still increase if the bitcoin price hit ATH again, but the user base involved in merit distribution will not grow if user interest in using their sMerit on quality post is not stimulated.

[AdolfinWolf]

My two cents: the forum is dying - and perhaps that's deserved / inevitable.

The kind of discussion this forum was build for is no longer desired by the "mainstream" "consumer" of forums, nor was it ever, probably.
eg. there's (was) little to no groupthink (or an enormous amount, depends on how you view it), although the introduction of the merit system changed that a lot for the worse IMO, a lot of esoteric discussions about technical details etc...

Add to that a terrible UI, terrible average poster + shitcoin campaigns and you get an inevitable deflation once said campaigns stop and end up with nothing of value apart from some very technical discussion no ordinary user will understand.

Of course, when you have a devteam that's literally just scamming instead of improving the forum that's not helping either.

So yes, bitcointalk is losing her users, and it is totally deserved. Over the span of ten years nothing has been done to improve accessibility, useability, or its reputation. Instead, bitcointalk was just "first".
I guess we see what that has lead to, but don't get me wrong,
I think it is inevitable that a lot of users have switched to forums/social media such as reddit either because their opinion is better represented there, the discussions are better, or because it is simply much more accessible in such a way that bitcointalk never could have competed with.

So what's still so special about bitcointalk IMO?

- It was "first" blabla.
- You can "make money" posting. > Make money promoting morally dubious products such as bitcoin m***** or complete scamcoins, mostly.

User activity grows exponentially on the way up when there's the opportunity to spam shitcoins for moola - and declines exponentially when interest cools down in crypto. Seems pretty inevitable.

I mean, no one should forget where most of the popularity for this forum has come from for the last couple of years: a self-reinforcing hype of idiots constantly promoting rugpulls, shady casinos, or other shady financial products to each other. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it's just bound to lose steam at some point until the next "framework" (what crypto is to the internet, kinda) to play these games in comes around, and new suckers are able to be drawned in.

Also seriously, I get an ad for "Elon Coin" by a DT1/DT2 member called lightlord? Wow. seems like the forum is extra desperate for cash these days promoting really obvious false grassroot rugpulls.

[KingsDen]

Merit receivers, the active users posting good content, or at least merit-worth content, have been on a steady decline almost since inceptions.

However, I believe that a large number of new members have dropped out of this forum due to the evil fee and the hostile welcome of older members

I highlighted the above portions of Op and @Daniel91 posts because one pointed out a problem and the other one stated how the problem is created. I want to in my little way suggest a solution.

A system that has a means of punishing the offenders or disobedience, should have a means of rewarding the law abiding members. When there are no means of rewarding goodness, it will surely decline.
For instance, if there is a reward for a newbie who under few months grew an account to full member without spamming or plagerising, it will in no doubt jealous others to begin to make merit-worth posts.

In the case of hostile welcome of newbies by older members. I am happy a legendary member pointed out this issue. I believe many, very many new users dropped because of this.
We should endeavour to help and mentor newbies that show inclination to grow and help the forum.
This might not be obtainable or should be disregarded if the purpose of this forum has been achieved years ago. Maybe, we are just here for formalities. If not, let us encourage the new users who are really willing to add something to the system. A mere suggestion by a newbie will attract countless attacks.

At a point some new users will be advised confidentially to limit the number of posts they create. Be mindful of whose thread they reply or whose post they quote in other not to get into troubles. A newbie who can make 10 quality posts will limit to 2 from 2 to 0 or become dormant or a shit poster.
Alternatively, he will begin looking for alternative forums that will appreciate their weaknesses and encourage their strengths.

Please, I am sincerely inlove with this forum. I regret why I haven't known this forum for long. Here is like an institution for me, even though I will not be certified, the knowledge I gain here is high. Let us uphold the sanity of the forum and allow love lead.
I also wish to suggest if a board like "Skill Acquisition" can be created where people voluntarily teach skills. It will be a big empowerment, such that whenever you leave this forum for whatever reasons, there would be memories to remember, efforts to appreciate and relationships to uphold.
Perfect Peace!

[Magicalking]

I am complaining I can’t see new users coming in. And while I do agree newer (younger) user might be prone to short attention span, I refuse to think we cannot engage a few thousands people all over the world interested in bitcoin to write a merit worth post monthly in this forum.
This is what worries me the most: a community not able to engage new members is eventually going to die.
And I think that day it would be a sad one.

I think this community in its current state is not very welcoming for new members and that will effect the amount of people are register but also the people who do register might not want to engage out of fear of hostilities. I am not branding the whole community as being unwelcoming because there are definitely people out there that make it like their goal to welcome new members into the community but overall I do think there is a problem there even if it is the minority. The only way we are going to correct that is by more senior members correcting their behaviors.

I totally agree with what you're saying. There has to be a change in the manner which the upper ranks engage newbies. There is boundless information to learn here  and it is impossible to know everything at once. Its true there are a lot of spammers who have bad intentions. But please don't label every newbie the same. I think its more effective to treat newbies are like children understanding the time, patience and training that is needed for them to grow run. Sometimes I think every one is too serious and uptight. This is a forum of crypto lovers. Why can't we just have fun?

[Red Pie]

What do you think? Do you think forum is losing userbase and this is a bad thing? Are there other reasons this is happening and other solutions?

Maybe when the forum was first established, it could meet all kinds of needs. But we have arrived in 2021. Smartphones are everywhere in our lives. Phones have become the main tool for managing our lives. Perhaps the greatest need of our forum is a mobile application. As for other forums, I don't think any of them can be Bitcointalk. There are some great writers on this forum. They found quite rich things in terms of content for the forum. We can't see this in every forum.

[Shamm]

I am complaining I can’t see new users coming in. And while I do agree newer (younger) user might be prone to short attention span, I refuse to think we cannot engage a few thousands people all over the world interested in bitcoin to write a merit worth post monthly in this forum.
This is what worries me the most: a community not able to engage new members is eventually going to die.
And I think that day it would be a sad one.

I think this community in its current state is not very welcoming for new members and that will effect the amount of people are register but also the people who do register might not want to engage out of fear of hostilities. I am not branding the whole community as being unwelcoming because there are definitely people out there that make it like their goal to welcome new members into the community but overall I do think there is a problem there even if it is the minority. The only way we are going to correct that is by more senior members correcting their behaviors.

I totally agree with what you're saying. There has to be a change in the manner which the upper ranks engage newbies. There is boundless information to learn here  and it is impossible to know everything at once. Its true there are a lot of spammers who have bad intentions. But please don't label every newbie the same. I think its more effective to treat newbies are like children understanding the time, patience and training that is needed for them to grow run. Sometimes I think every one is too serious and uptight. This is a forum of crypto lovers. Why can't we just have fun?

your right we must treat newcomers even older member in this forum very well me must respect one another.




In my opinion Many users Left the forum not because they don't like bitcointalk but I think they not treat properly to the older Member as I saw other higher rank not treated very well some newbies remember that Newbies are still learning and developing their knowledge so we must treat them like our friends we help them. Some high ranks looking down the newbies witch is not Good for a role model.
And some users left us because the saw other source of income or they felt  and odler version of the Forum.

What do you think? Do you think forum is losing userbase and this is a bad thing? Are there other reasons this is happening and other solutions?

I suggest that we must update the bitcointalk to a newer  version and more interesting  or update our posting methods especially the way we treat newcomers we must handle them with care we should be a good role model in their journey so that many users will comeback to us and many user will come to this forum.

[Pokapoka124]

For instance, if there is a reward for a newbie who under few months grew an account to full member without spamming or plagerising, it will in no doubt jealous others to begin to make merit-worth posts.

Jealousy isn't the motivation that will prove helpful. The merit system in itself is enough to motivate one.
The Bitcointalk Urban Achievers Merit Scholarship Program is good motivation

In the case of hostile welcome of newbies by older members. I am happy a legendary member pointed out this issue. I believe many, very many new users dropped because of this.
We should endeavour to help and mentor newbies that show inclination to grow and help the forum.

The hostility comes from the years of frustrations of being flooded by arrival of newbies who don't contribute, but just want to know how to get free bitcoin. A lot of newbies ask the same questions over and over without bothering to read the answers, this trait tends to upset some people. The attitude you speak of is not limited to bitcointalk forum, there is no perfect ecosystem except maybe the matrix lol. But if you ever feel like you are repeatedly attacked by the same person you can confront them, or you can use your ignore button. It is your choice

I also wish to suggest if a board like "Skill Acquisition" can be created where people voluntarily teach skills.

There is the service board. We don't need to create a new board for skill acquisition.

[Pmalek]

A system that has a means of punishing the offenders or disobedience, should have a means of rewarding the law abiding members. When there are no means of rewarding goodness, it will surely decline.
For instance, if there is a reward for a newbie who under few months grew an account to full member without spamming or plagerising, it will in no doubt jealous others to begin to make merit-worth posts.

Can you give an example of what kind of rewards system you are talking about? How it would work, and where do the rewards come from. If a newbie manages to rank up to full member (and some have even ranked up to legendary), the whole community took part in his progress. That's the reward. The 100, 250, 500, or 1000 merits he received along the way is the community's way of saying we see you and we appreciate what you are doing.