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Author Topic: Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - email to get whitelisted for free  (Read 18672 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (8 posts by 5+ users deleted.)
LoyceV (OP)
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July 20, 2021, 03:59:04 PM
Last edit: January 31, 2024, 11:22:57 AM by LoyceV
Merited by ranochigo (10), hugeblack (10), dkbit98 (10), PowerGlove (10), suchmoon (9), Foxpup (8), Daniel91 (7), Mr. Big (5), DdmrDdmr (5), tranthidung (5), The Cryptovator (5), BlackHatCoiner (5), RickDeckard (5), Saidasun (5), dbshck (4), o_e_l_e_o (4), malevolent (3), Pmalek (3), paxmao (2), Rikafip (2), icopress (2), vapourminer (1), Cyrus (1), JayJuanGee (1), stompix (1), ABCbits (1), sheenshane (1), hosseinimr93 (1), Bthd (1), TheBeardedBaby (1), samcrypto (1), aysg76 (1), gagux123 (1), shahzadafzal (1), Peanutswar (1), Charles-Tim (1), Poker Player (1), CryptocurencyKing (1), nullama (1), Apocollapse (1)
 #1

Bitcointalk uses proxybans against spammers:
When you register, the IP that you used when you submitted the registration form is used to calculate your evilness. The more frequently this IP or its neighbors were banned, the more evil is associated with your account. The amount of evil associated with an IP decays slowly over time, but the amount of evil associated with an account does not. You must pay or be manually whitelisted to enable posting on one of these "banned" accounts.
Sometimes, innocent people become collateral damage. This is generally considered as unfair and very unwelcoming.
Thanks to theymos, I can now Whitelist users, so I can help to correct this.

Background
Only abused IP ranges have to pay a fee. The fee is an anti-abuse measure, and it is not meant to be (and isn't) much of a source of revenue.

If any very-veteran members want to volunteer, I can give you the ability to whitelist users. (All Staff can already whitelist users, as well.) Perhaps then someone could create a topic like "List of email addresses for people who can whitelist you for free", which I could link-to on the evil fee page. However, these IPs have evil for a reason. If it was sufficient for them to just solve a captcha or something, I'd have them do that. Before whitelisting someone, you have to do something to be pretty sure that they're not evading a ban and just going to get banned again. You may get the impression from complaints on the forum that everyone hits the fee and it's never warranted, but this is selection bias: the fee is more rare, and the vast majority of accounts that hit it should not be whitelisted.

Freedom!
Welcome to Bitcointalk! I'll give you a very short introduction of what makes Bitcointalk unique. First: note that scams are not moderated! If something looks too good to be true, you are going to get scammed. Use common sense, and don't trust random strangers on the internet with your money.
Bitcointalk offers more freedom than any other forum I know. You can choose to be an asshole or you can be a nice person. It's entirely up to you how you want to come across. If you're a snowflake, you might get offended. That's okay.
You're allowed to earn money or do business here. Your freedom is mainly limited by the forum rules.
Warning: unlike most websites, Bitcointalk does not allow plagiarism. This will get you banned! It's very easy to prevent: if you quote someone, give them the credit they deserve.

Banned?
If your account was banned for breaking the forum rules, you deserve the units of evil and aren't allowed to create a new account. Please don't ask me to whitelist you.

How to get your Proxyban removed?
I can only whitelist you if I know you exist. There are 2 options:
1. Convince me
Send me an email:
Code:
LoyceVswitzerland@protonmail.com
Now the tricky part: apart from including your Bitcointalk username, you'll need to convince me you deserve it. I know this sucks, and I hate jumping through hoops too. But it's the best I can do to help new Bitcointalk users without giving spammers a free pass. If you don't tell me your Bitcointalk username, I will ignore your email.
You don't need to send me your IP-address or real name. I can't believe I have to add this: DO NOT send me a picture of a passport!
Or (not "and") email someone else:
Code:
sfr.edits@gmail.com
Code:
whitelist.welsh@protonmail.com
Code:
hugeblack_whitelist@protonmail.com
Code:
whitelistby_upgrade00@protonmail.com

2. Get someone to vouch for you
I know several personal examples of people who I invited to join bitcointalk forum and they couldn't registered because they got evil fee notification and asked to pay with Bitcoin.
If an established member knows you personally, they can post your username in this topic for whitelisting. Don't PM me, keep it public. I won't accept vouches from for instance a bounty hunter with 1000 Activity and 0 earned Merit.

Ease PM restrictions
PM-restrictions are very tight on Newbies (thanks to spammers in the past):
ActivityMax recipientsMax recipients if whitelistedMax PMs per hourMax PMs per hour if whitelistedMax PMs per dayMax PMs per day if whitelisted
02101402120
15310104015120
If you're a Newbie with a legitimate reason to increase this, please post in this topic.
If you're an established member talking to a Newbie who can't message you back: please post!

Full transparency
I'll post all whitelisted users in this topic. They can expect scrutiny. If you're a real user and don't deserve the "evil" label, this scrutiny can lead to earning some Merit. If you turn out to be a spammer, I'll report you myself.
Another reason for full transparency is to assess my judgement on who to whitelist.

Alternative
Instead of getting whitelisted or paying for evil fees, you can opt to buy a Copper membership.
If other users with Whitelisting "powers" want to add their email to the list, please post in this topic.
Newbies: don't spam the same email to the entire list, emailing one person should be enough.

Pay the evil fee by exchanging altcoins
I feel like I'm Bitcointalk's helpdesk now: so many people assume it's my site. It's not!
People ask help in paying small amounts of Bitcoin, or ask if I (yes "I") accept altcoins. I usually suggest FixedFloat.com to exchange small amounts of altcoin to Bitcoin at a low fee, but just in case: Do Your Own Research before trusting any site.
I also recommend using your own Bitcoin wallet (such as Electrum) instead of exchanges with very high withdrawal fees, especially the sneaky ones like Binance who try to convince people to accept their own made-up tokens instead of real Bitcoin. And again: do your own research, and make sure you don't download malware.

Disclaimer
I'll use my own judgement who to whitelist. Please make a compelling argument.
This topic is "work in progress". If I need to add something, please let me know.

No spam
Self-moderated to prevent spam and off-topic posts.

Don't forget
Whitelisting is a not a license to spam. You will be immediately banned if you're found spamming, even if you bought a copper membership (and you will not be refunded).

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LoyceV (OP)
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July 20, 2021, 04:02:43 PM
Last edit: February 18, 2024, 09:26:28 AM by LoyceV
Merited by Rikafip (2)
 #2

Users whitelisted by me after a request

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July 20, 2021, 04:02:47 PM
Last edit: February 18, 2024, 09:26:38 AM by LoyceV
 #3

(sorry, I can't continue the numbering in a new post)

Statistics
  • Users who never posted: 134
  • Total Merit earned: 12009
  • Total users banned: 6

Users whitelisted by me without a request (not counted in Statistics)

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July 20, 2021, 04:47:07 PM
Merited by hugeblack (4)
 #4

If other users with Whitelisting "powers" want to add their email to the list, please post in this topic.
Code:
sfr.edits@gmail.com
Thanks Smiley

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July 20, 2021, 07:08:14 PM
Merited by hugeblack (4)
 #5

I'll try to look at it daily, and be prepared to exchange messages back, and forth. I won't whitelist unless I'm absolutely convinced that its the right thing to do. I'll probably keep an eye on those whitelisted by myself, and any publicly maintained list.
Code:
 whitelist.welsh@protonmail.com

If any established user wants to vouch for another user, and request for them to be whitelisted, please feel free to contact me via personal message on forum.
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July 20, 2021, 08:13:20 PM
Merited by Charles-Tim (1)
 #6

1. If I vouch for someone and he/she end up getting banned what chances do I have to vouch again?

2.  And what are the criteria an established members must posses to be a voucher? Is it by reputation? By rank? By personal judgment?

3. What are the prophylactic measures put in place to make sure this system is not hijacked /abused by the vouchers? We know everything is tradeable nowadays.

Sounds like we are going to have a referral link very soon.

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LoyceV (OP)
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July 20, 2021, 08:44:06 PM
 #7

1. If I vouch for someone and he/she end up getting banned what chances do I have to vouch again?
Your chances to vouch decrease if your judgement is flawed.

Quote
2.  And what are the criteria an established members must posses to be a voucher? Is it by reputation? By rank? By personal judgment?
It depends Wink I assume an established member would know they'd qualify.

Quote
3. What are the prophylactic measures put in place to make sure this system is not hijacked /abused by the vouchers?
The DT-system Cheesy

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We know everything is tradeable nowadays.
I like to think my loyalty is not for sale.

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July 20, 2021, 09:28:09 PM
 #8

3. What are the prophylactic measures put in place to make sure this system is not hijacked /abused by the vouchers? We know everything is tradeable nowadays.
If this were to become a problem, I'm sure theymos would pitch in with some guidance on the matter. Time being, those that vouch particularly bad users to be whitelisted, will probably lose integrity. Ideally, if you are vouching for someone, you should be absolutely confident that they aren't going to be problematic. Otherwise, its up to them to convince those that can whitelist them, themselves without someone acting as a voucher.
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July 20, 2021, 09:53:34 PM
 #9

1. If I vouch for someone and he/she end up getting banned what chances do I have to vouch again?
Someone would only consider your vouch cause of your integrity, so each user puts that at stake each time they vouch for someone, if your integrity reduces so does the strength of your vouches.

3. What are the prophylactic measures put in place to make sure this system is not hijacked /abused by the vouchers? We know everything is tradeable nowadays.
Vouching is a personal addition of LoyceV, although I except other users with whitelisting powers to adot it. Vouchers do not really have anything to trade as their opinion is only as valid as other users view it.

P.S; I'll update this thread asap with my email address for whitelisting.

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July 20, 2021, 10:47:55 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #10

A very nice development indeed, as this has been an issue that has plagued the system for so long as to the proximity of new members to the forum. Though, there are aspects to the solution as we have it now that we have to look at closely and subjectively so as not to constitute a problem. Some of those includes;

1. Its not strange that ban evading users would want to leverage the whitelisting for an advantage and as such, telling the difference would constitute a problem as, those for whom this opportunity is avail to are most likely to be ignorant of its existence especially those who arrived here by them surfing the net. Those whom are introduced might would have the upper hand here.

I. In order to ensure those that are introduced and those whom found out about the forum by chance, I would like to suggest the default message that request a fee for whitelisting should also come with an info of this development. Hence, reading in detail becomes distinguishing factor and a newbie who doesn't read, don't portray much of a learner that would add to the forum.

2. We all know that true newbies to the forum and cryptos always have one thing in common which is, limited knowledge in the field. Though, you aren't asking them to tell you about bitcoin and stuff like that but then, they are unlikely to have the kind of idea that would bring them about the kind of expression to get whitelisted and make them stay without having someone tell them what to do or how to go about it.

Vouching is a personal addition of LoyceV, although I except other users with whitelisting powers to adot it. Vouchers do not really have anything to trade as their opinion is only as valid as other users view it.

P.S; I'll update this thread asap with my email address for whitelisting.
For some reasons this might need a bit of clarity by LoyceV because, my idea of Vouching for someone brings me to the point of standing in for a shortee or like putting in your foot to say, I trust and what ever effect that might arise from this user can be pinned on me. I really hope this isn't the case because, humans do change and the user you vouched for might be good today but turns to something else tomorrow.
Another issue I'm finding with Vouching someone is the fact that, from the way the forum works, you automatically project yourself to be studied against that user for the build up of a relationship. Either as an alt or merit wise and any evil at all. It doesn't seem so idea to me should tred this part.

But then, I'm in for the whitelisting, we need that on the forum. Thanks to the brains behind this idea and the convincing.
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July 20, 2021, 11:47:27 PM
 #11

Quote from: LoyceV to answer 2
It depends Wink I assume an established member would know they'd qualify.
This is the same as saying it's a personal judgment thing, this is going to roam about some certain group, clubs, or maybe trustees,  there should be some sort of requirements to be a voucher, so everybody would have a chance.

Quote from: LoyceV to answer 3
Tagging a defaulter? Like oh yeh this user abused the whitelist system? Is it? Or is there something I'm getting wrong about your answer?

Quote from: LoyceV to answer 4
I like to think my loyalty is not for sale.
If you trust Alice and Bob to be a voucher there is every penchant that either of them would be trading the process without your consent, you may not be the bad guy but what about your qualified voucher? Can you say the same about them?

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July 21, 2021, 07:46:14 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2021, 09:28:40 AM by hugeblack
 #12

Thanks for creating this thread, I will prepare @protonmail email in the coming hours and will update it here.

Updated:

Code:
hugeblack_whitelist@protonmail.com

Do you know why we get whitelisted for all accounts? I thought that the link would only appear to newbie members, in other words what is the point of whitelisting high rank members. Huh

I will create a separate topic for all the members that I have added to my white list, will monitor them for 6 months to a year, and if no spam occurs, they will be removed from that list. Smiley

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July 21, 2021, 08:10:18 AM
 #13

I would like to suggest the default message that request a fee for whitelisting should also come with an info of this development.
That was theymos' intention indeed.

Quote
For some reasons this might need a bit of clarity by LoyceV because, my idea of Vouching for someone brings me to the point of standing in for a shortee or like putting in your foot to say, I trust and what ever effect that might arise from this user can be pinned on me. I really hope this isn't the case because, humans do change and the user you vouched for might be good today but turns to something else tomorrow.
I added the "vouching part" because of dkbit98's post. In my opinion it's quite simple: if you vouch for someone, you need to trust they're not a spammer. If you have to worry about what they might do later on, then just don't vouch for them.

Quote
Another issue I'm finding with Vouching someone is the fact that, from the way the forum works, you automatically project yourself to be studied against that user for the build up of a relationship. Either as an alt or merit wise and any evil at all. It doesn't seem so idea to me should tred this part.
If you're vouching for a bunch of bounty hunters, this might be true. But if it's someone on the Collectibles board, a vouch adds credibility.

This is the same as saying it's a personal judgment thing
Of course it is, that's all I can do. But I'm not the only one doing this, so if I don't Whitelist a certain user, someone else may do it.

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there should be some sort of requirements to be a voucher, so everybody would have a chance.
I don't want Bitcointalk users to behave in a certain way to earn certain benefits. It's a bit like running a signature campaign: the campaign manager gets to pick whoever he wants.

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Tagging a defaulter? Like oh yeh this user abused the whitelist system? Is it? Or is there something I'm getting wrong about your answer?
Well, if someone would vouch for a bunch of accounts that start posting malware, that would reflect badly on the user. But let's not get to that, this topic is meant to help the users who don't deserve to a Proxyban. It's not meant to test the limits.

Do you know why we get whitelisted for all accounts? I thought that the link would only appear to newbie members, in other words what is the point of whitelisting high rank members. Huh
For accounts with less than 500 Activity it also reduces the time limit between posts (or reports). I don't think it adds anything for higher ranks.

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dkbit98
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July 21, 2021, 08:44:27 AM
 #14

Great idea and good initiative LoyceV, but what worries me a bit is that you will start to get so much email requests for whitelisting that you won't have enough time to answer and reply everyone who sent them.

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Upgrade00
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July 21, 2021, 04:03:19 PM
Merited by Charles-Tim (1)
 #15

<snip>
They'll have the option to message some other users who are able to whitelist them if a certain user gets too busy, but Loyce is a bot and we should not have such issues  Grin

Here's my email for whitelisting;
Code:
whitelistby_upgrade00@protonmail.com

I'll be checking it fairly constantly and would keep a public log of users whitelisted for extra transparency.

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July 21, 2021, 06:00:25 PM
 #16

Great idea and good initiative LoyceV, but what worries me a bit is that you will start to get so much email requests for whitelisting that you won't have enough time to answer and reply everyone who sent them.
There's probably more than enough users already offering their time to whitelist, and we could potentially setup a forwarding system for any unanswered cases. However, I doubt that this will be overly popular, since the only exposure is this thread. Unless, theymos has changed the evil score message to reflect that you can request manual whitelisting, I don't think its going to be overly used.

For the record, I've had zero emails for whitelisting currently.
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July 22, 2021, 05:38:24 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #17

Some feedback on this:
*I would suggest that a general inbox be setup that users can email that will automatically forward requests to everyone who is able and willing to help with this. The email address of the inbox can be changed periodically, as emails published are over time going to attract spam that will increase over time. You should still use a private email address because it may get exposed when you reply to messages, but your actual email address should never make it to search engines.
*If the above is implemented, those who are helping to CC the above inbox to alert others they are working on the case.
*The specific questions can vary from person to person, and can change over time, however, I would suggest that a template of questions for users to answer should be used by each person helping out. This should help standardize the process.
*Although follow-up questions will likely need to vary from prospect to prospect, each person should try to standardize follow-up questions to the extent they can.
*One question that everyone should ask should be something along the lines of "have you ever been banned from bitcointalk"? If you get the person on the record as saying they have not been banned, you can post their username here, and admins can periodically check if it appears the person is an alt of a banned user, and take action appropriately.
*I don't think being banned should automatically disqualify someone from getting whitelisted, specifically if they are trying to appeal their ban. If someone is banned and is wanting to appeal their ban, I think an appropriate response would be to tell the person to create a username with "_banappeal" appended at the end of their handle, and once this is done, automatically grant the request. A new forum rule can be implemented that these types of handles can only be used to appeal forum bans, and if they are used in ways that would normally result in ban evasion bans, the account will be banned. I would note that in the past, banned users have been allowed to do things such as responding to scam accusations against them, open and respond to scam accusations against others they allege to have been scammed by, and making payment arrangements to pay people they owe money to. These exceptions should continue to be allowed (and even potentially codified, obviously with limitations). I don't think it is appropriate to make people have to pay to appeal their bans. I think almost all bans issued are appropriate, however, everyone should have the ability to make their case, and if it costs money to appeal their ban, there may be instances in which perma bans are issued in error that never get appealed.
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July 22, 2021, 07:22:11 AM
 #18

I like the way this is turning out that some reputable members are seriously finding a way to help out on this evil fee. In the past I had had to pay for two friends because they didn't know jack about Bitcoin and never had any at the time. Right now, I'm vouching for another friend who's very interested to grow and advance his knowledge of cryptocurrencies. I'm happy to be doing this for them.

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July 22, 2021, 09:19:40 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #19

Instead of having multiple email addresses for each person who can do the whitelisting, why don't you guys create a shared account that you will all have access to? I am sure that the 5 or 6 of you tasked to do it can trust each other to share the same password. You also know enough to not get phished, keylogged, etc. 

That will make it easier.
- All the emails go into the same place.
- Whenever you are doing whitelisting, you just take the next unread application from the list, work on it, and mark it as either solved or denied for everyone else to see.
- Any application that isn't being worked on should remain unread until someone takes a look at it. That avoids 2 users from working on the same application.

If everyone has their own email, users could apply to be whitelisted with multiple people. Rejected by #1 and #2, but accepted by #3. This would prevent that unless they come back with an alt account.

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LoyceV (OP)
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July 22, 2021, 09:23:33 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2021, 08:33:06 PM by LoyceV
 #20

Instead of having multiple email addresses for each person who can do the whitelisting, why don't you guys create a shared account that you will all have access to?
I thought about it, but (speaking for myself): I don't want another email address to keep track of.

Emails are starting to pile up. I must say they make it very easy to reject them, if they can't follow simple instructions.

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