Enjoy communism (III) rats eating dead people and people eating rats in NK

[Poker Player]

Today we continue with another chapter of the series: enjoy communism, lest we forget.

Enjoy comunism: Venezuela raises monthly minimum wage to $2.40

Enjoy comunism (II): Venezuela to cut 6 zeros from its currency

The other day I saw an interview by JR with Yeonmi Park, who escaped from NK, which you can see here:

Yeonmi Park Details Horrific Effects of North Korean Starvation

That I found shocking. We don't know as much about NK as we do about Cuba or Venezuela because, for example, people don't have access to the internet, so videos of what the government doesn't want to be seen, such as food queues and empty supermarket shelves in Venezuela, are not leaked.

I'll summarize some points for those of you who can't or don't want to see it.

1) A distance that you would travel by train in one hour in a western country, can take you a month, because the train only runs once a month and the train only runs once a month and there is not much electricity in NK, so sometimes people have to push their trains.
2) Talking about her childhood, if her mum went away to find food, she never knew if she was going to see her again. People didn't have phones or couldn't write letters (it seems that nowadays it is allowed to a certain extent but people don't have internet access.
3) People usually died in train stations, they were piled and as they were rigid, they seemed piled wood. Seeing those dead bodies for her was completely normal, as normal as water is for fish.
4) They don't have running water. They have to go to the springs or wells to bring drinking water home. She describes a situation where she went to get water, and there was a boy begging for money, with part of his organs out, surrounded by flies and dogs surrounding him as well. She did not feel anything, as it was something usual, like seeing dead bodies.
5) When she was 13, she had stomach ache. They don't have x-rays or anything. She was operated on, without anesthesia. They don't have penicilin. It you have to get an injection, the nurse uses the same needle for everyone, so the chances of you catching something in the hospital are high.
6) They don't have indoor WC for the patient. When she went outside she could see piles of dead bodies and rats eating human eyes. There were also hungry children around trying to catch the rats. When they did, they sometimes eat them raw. As a result, some of the children got sick and died.
7) It's an entire country in a perpetual state of starvation. When she was there, she never eat until she was full. She was always hungry.

This is a single interview from a person who lived there and someone could argue that it is biased, but searching the net we can see other similar testimonials, for example:

Train platforms full of dead bodies, cleaning filthy toilets with bare hands and eating rats to survive: North Korean defector reveals harsh reality of life inside brutal labour camps


Let us not forget. There has not been a single communist regime, not one that did not work, but one that did not starve to death and repress its population.

I would just like to add that in Defector Yeonmi Park on Escaping North Korea.

She explains how she was able to escape from NK when she was 13 or 14 years old but now it is impossible because as people were escaping, the NK government increased the security measures and now there are electric fences, guards shooting to kill and then there are landmines. According to her:

"The entire country became a concentration camp."

It must be remembered that communism is such a wonderful system that all communist regimes kill people if they try to escape from there, lest they go abroad and tell what is there, and everyone wants to go and live in those communist countries (note the irony).

[1715556227]

1715556227

[1715556227]

1715556227

[mu_enrico]

That I found shocking. We don't know as much about NK as we do about Cuba or Venezuela because, for example, people don't have access to the internet, so videos of what the government doesn't want to be seen, such as food queues and empty supermarket shelves in Venezuela, are not leaked.

This is one of the severe issues of the contemporary communist regime. They monopolize information so people don't know what's the actual decent life out there. They don't know if eating rats (for example) is bad. They don't know if they can actually criticize the government, and then they think if their suffering is because foreign countries hate them.

Anyway, related to the economic issues, we all know that centralized planning doesn't work because no one can know what will happen in the future. Communism could work if Merlin-like economist with his almighty crystal ball exists, aside from the corruption issues.

[hugeblack]

Since you cannot verify the truth of what he says, his statements cannot be taken as a description of what is happening in North Korea.
I have read some information about this country and it does not seem that its condition is as dire as it happens in Venezuela, but it still has the basics of life such as food and drink.
For example, when talking about trains, I expect that many people are countryside, so they do not need to go to the capitals as we do.
Also, the electricity and energy crises make the country poor, but it is not so bad that people leave hungry.
Finally, the regime in Venezuela exercises absolute power, and therefore it is natural that we witness the absence of freedoms and economic collapse.

[TheNineClub]

Let us not forget, calling something communism does not mean it's comunism. There is not one single word in the writings of Marx or Engels where it's noted that a communist regime needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship. And that's what NK is, a totalitarian dictatorship. So were a bunch of other regimes that disguised themselves under the communist flag. But ya know what, there are a bunch of other dictatorships that have nothing to do with communism and are still repressive regimes. I was born in a socialist regime that eventually broke down because of right-wing aspirations disguised under the banner of ''freedom''. As things are going right now, I can tell you for a fact that the situation of an average woman or man was better in socialism (in my country) than it is now and it's constantly going downhill. And what did the so-called seekers of freedom that opposed communism brought to my country? More corruption, thievery, and economic despair, and religious oppression in quantities never seen before in socialism (in my country).

Please, don't mix political theories with real-life adoptions and someone calling something a certain name. I can tell you from my experience, that ''communism'' you are talking about is not communism but rather a monarchy wrapped into a totality regime.

[Poker Player]

Let us not forget, calling something communism does not mean it's comunism. There is not one single word in the writings of Marx or Engels where it's noted that a communist regime needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship. And that's what NK is, a totalitarian dictatorship. So were a bunch of other regimes that disguised themselves under the communist flag. But ya know what, there are a bunch of other dictatorships that have nothing to do with communism and are still repressive regimes. I was born in a socialist regime that eventually broke down because of right-wing aspirations disguised under the banner of ''freedom''. As things are going right now, I can tell you for a fact that the situation of an average woman or man was better in socialism (in my country) than it is now and it's constantly going downhill. And what did the so-called seekers of freedom that opposed communism brought to my country? More corruption, thievery, and economic despair, and religious oppression in quantities never seen before in socialism (in my country).

Please, don't mix political theories with real-life adoptions and someone calling something a certain name. I can tell you from my experience, that ''communism'' you are talking about is not communism but rather a monarchy wrapped into a totality regime.

The problem with all this is that there has not been any country that called itself communist and that followed at least in the basics the ideas of Marx, that did not end up in totalitarianism, repression and starving the population. Not one.

So, a theory that when applied repeatedly is a disaster in all cases is a garbage theory. It is not that it is badly applied, no, it is that it is a big piece of shit.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Communism could work if Merlin-like economist with his almighty crystal ball exists, aside from the corruption issues.

Communism can't work.  At least not if there are human beings involved; that's been proven over and over, and no more experiments need to be run as far as I'm concerned.  Capitalism has its problems, of course, but I think even the poorest person in a capitalist society would prefer that system over communism, where their personal situation would probably be even worse.

As long as North Korea isn't planning on nuking any other country, I say let them be.  I'm tired of the US or any other country (but it's usually the US) trying to be the global police.  If North Koreans rise up and smash their dictator, that would be the best thing for them.  If another country went in and deposed him, who knows what could happen.  We could have another Vietnam or some other huge disaster that could result in lives being lost unnecessarily. 

I sympathize with the citizens of North Korea and wish them well, but what can or should the world do about their woes?  They need to rise up and fight, IMO, if they're tired of being under the thumb of a dictatorship.

[Ucy]

Listened to her weeks ago, I found it abit hard to believe... or better still, I didn't completely trust that because I haven't verified it yet. I guess the best way it can be verified is to have neutral access to the country. You'll probably need to have over 29 honest people confirm this by paying random visits to any community. And this could be allowed to happen for more than a month until many communities are visited and reports compiled.
I have observed people exaggerated things on the internet or media concerning things that happen in places I'm familiar with... I wouldn't totally believe until I get that from reliable/trustworthy sources

What she said that really interests me alot was that she was not used to not being told what to do in here new country like it was done in the country she fled from, and she didn't really like that... so I concluded that they were heavily controlled over that she thought it was ok/better to be controlled.

[Assface16678]

The problem with North Korea is that they're backed by China and Russia to continue living like this and at the same time keeps the Kims in power and hold off US and it's allies to focus on this rogue nation while the other rivals floursih. Communism is good in theory but the problem is that people that taste power becomes corrupt so it can't work on application, the evil in man's heart will always creep in to make things ugly.

[Silberman]

Let us not forget, calling something communism does not mean it's comunism. There is not one single word in the writings of Marx or Engels where it's noted that a communist regime needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship. And that's what NK is, a totalitarian dictatorship. So were a bunch of other regimes that disguised themselves under the communist flag. But ya know what, there are a bunch of other dictatorships that have nothing to do with communism and are still repressive regimes. I was born in a socialist regime that eventually broke down because of right-wing aspirations disguised under the banner of ''freedom''. As things are going right now, I can tell you for a fact that the situation of an average woman or man was better in socialism (in my country) than it is now and it's constantly going downhill. And what did the so-called seekers of freedom that opposed communism brought to my country? More corruption, thievery, and economic despair, and religious oppression in quantities never seen before in socialism (in my country).

Please, don't mix political theories with real-life adoptions and someone calling something a certain name. I can tell you from my experience, that ''communism'' you are talking about is not communism but rather a monarchy wrapped into a totality regime.

The problem with all this is that there has not been any country that called itself communist and that followed at least in the basics the ideas of Marx, that did not end up in totalitarianism, repression and starving the population. Not one.

So, a theory that when applied repeatedly is a disaster in all cases is a garbage theory. It is not that it is badly applied, no, it is that it is a big piece of shit.

Agreed, this is the excuse that it is used to try communism one more time, those other countries were not really communist they say, we have the right formula they say, and despite all of this the results always end up being the same, however in theory communism sounds attractive to a lot of people that are envious that a single person has billions in wealth and they want that wealth for themselves, not understanding that communism does not lift the floor but it lowers the ceiling for everyone, so everyone, except those which are part of the top, will have to make do with almost nothing until the system fails.

[Kittygalore]

Don't forget the part that anything that is so small and the family and the oligarchs(yes, they have oligarchs, despite being a communist country) find offensive, you will be sent to a prison camp where you are going to be tortured endlessly and you will be having free trial if not real hell in those prison camps, torture for breakfast, torment in lunch and agony for dinner. North Korea is a deplorable place that should never exist. Communism there is only applied to the poor people.

[Coyster]

I sympathize with the citizens of North Korea and wish them well, but what can or should the world do about their woes?  They need to rise up and fight, IMO, if they're tired of being under the thumb of a dictatorship.

I second that, and what I believe is there is no dictatorial regime that began in a day, it is a gradual process when power hungry and brutal people take power, they slowly make things dictatorial, thus the people of North Korea should not have allowed things to get this bad, if it actually is as bad as the person in that interview claims; thus the people of North Korea should have opposed this sort of totalitarianism from the beginning, it seems it has gotten out of hand at the moment, which makes it hard to repress.

Having said that, what the outside world can do is just to to create awareness on what is happening, but I think if there is to actually be any change, then there must be a revolution, and it must stem from within and nowhere else.

[icopress]

[...] At least not if there are human beings involved; that's been proven over and over, and no more experiments need to be run as far as I'm concerned.  Capitalism has its problems, of course, but I think even the poorest person in a capitalist society would prefer that system over communism, where their personal situation would probably be even worse. As long as North Korea isn't planning on nuking any other country, I say let them be.  I'm tired of the US or any other country (but it's usually the US) trying to be the global police. [...]

The Pharmacist, you say as if you have something to compare with, as if you have experienced the communist regime on yourself ... it just seems to me not very appropriate to compare the political regime of North Korea with communism as such. In addition, the main difference between North Korea and other communist countries lies in the ideology of Marxism, and this is also the main problem. Since the one-party system can change, but the completely ingrained mentality - no (as it was in the USSR). Even the tough political regime of the USSR was not so tough compared to the Korean regime ... not to mention China, where only a name remained of communism. Besides, North Korea is not a threat to either the United States or South Korea (not in a year or in 50 years).

[istiak2277]

Let us not forget, calling something communism does not mean it's comunism. There is not one single word in the writings of Marx or Engels where it's noted that a communist regime needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship. And that's what NK is, a totalitarian dictatorship. So were a bunch of other regimes that disguised themselves under the communist flag. But ya know what, there are a bunch of other dictatorships that have nothing to do with communism and are still repressive regimes. I was born in a socialist regime that eventually broke down because of right-wing aspirations disguised under the banner of ''freedom''. As things are going right now, I can tell you for a fact that the situation of an average woman or man was better in socialism (in my country) than it is now and it's constantly going downhill. And what did the so-called seekers of freedom that opposed communism brought to my country? More corruption, thievery, and economic despair, and religious oppression in quantities never seen before in socialism (in my country).

Please, don't mix political theories with real-life adoptions and someone calling something a certain name. I can tell you from my experience, that ''communism'' you are talking about is not communism but rather a monarchy wrapped into a totality regime.

Not communism nor socialism can prevent corruption, thievery, and economic despair from our society. If we do not have an educated and helpful-minded society then there will be problems in our society. We must know that a country can be great by its people not by its ideology. In NK people let this happens after the Korean civil war. They believe in NK propaganda and support their leader with it. Now the whole population is stuck with this dire situation.

[just_Alice]

Omg, that’s really terrifying and was hard to read. This was shocking to me as well. I knew about the starvation in NK, but the dead bodies, operations without anesthesia, that was an eye-opener.

Communism is terrible, I really want to punch people sometimes when they say that it can bring good. No way. It’s a hypocritical regime, aimed at bringing happiness only to the higher levels of society at the cost of other people’s lives, and that is unacceptable.

I really hate what is happier in NK. Why don’t people stand up and fight against it? I thought they had strong propaganda there and believed that they lived the happiest lives and the West is all rotten. But how can anyone living in such conditions think that there’s something worse, than this? The whole population is suffering, I really don’t get why isn’t anyone doing something about it.

[Sithara007]

Like it or not, you have to admit that the communists have the best PR among all the political parties. I have seen a lot of youths in my country idolizing criminals such as Stalin, Kim Jong Il and Che. These guys (mostly in their late teens and early 20s) get so brainwashed by the communist propaganda, that they consider it cool to disregard the national flag and national anthem. Some of them openly insult the army and support the terrorist groups. But this happens only in non-communist nations. I have never seen anyone from Cuba or Venezuela supporting communism. Perhaps they have first hand account of how to live in a communist state and that's why they hate them so much.

[Leviathan.007]

Communism comes from the lack of knowledge from people's side and will allow the government to rules over people and abuse them and take advantage. Unfortunately, in countries such as North Korea, their government won't allow people to get in touch with other people all over the world and will break them both economically and mentally. There are many theories and thoughts about North Korea, in my own idea if you take people's first needs they such as the ability to have freedom they will look for freedom and will not ask for any second priority needs such as internet connection or strong economic power. Also, they abuse the people's traditions and religions, that's how communism rules over the world. Just like what they do on Venezuela.

[semobo]

Better mention it as dictatorship because every communist country is almost having the dictatorship rule which doesn't care about the people still they are funding the nuclear weapon research. I think Kim also accepted the hindrance of food supplies in their country in the international media which he never did that before itself a proof that how worse the situation of North Korea at the moment.

If there is something called God then please take care of such people.

[Poker Player]

Capitalism has its problems, of course, but I think even the poorest person in a capitalist society would prefer that system over communism, where their personal situation would probably be even worse.

I very much agree with this. I don't think capitalism is perfect, but it is certainly much better than communism, and in developed countries we have a mix of capitalism (free market, free enterprise) with socialism (regulations, taxes, redistribution).

Like it or not, you have to admit that the communists have the best PR among all the political parties. I have seen a lot of youths in my country idolizing criminals such as Stalin, Kim Jong Il and Che. These guys (mostly in their late teens and early 20s) get so brainwashed by the communist propaganda, that they consider it cool to disregard the national flag and national anthem. Some of them openly insult the army and support the terrorist groups. But this happens only in non-communist nations. I have never seen anyone from Cuba or Venezuela supporting communism. Perhaps they have first hand account of how to live in a communist state and that's why they hate them so much.

That is why I have created this series of threads, so that people are aware and do not forget what communism means. I have seen examples in this forum of that very thing you say.

I would just like to add that in Defector Yeonmi Park on Escaping North Korea.

She explains how she was able to escape from NK when she was 13 or 14 years old but now it is impossible because as people were escaping, the NK government increased the security measures and now there are electric fences, guards shooting to kill and then there are landmines. According to her:

"The entire country became a concentration camp."

It must be remembered that communism is such a wonderful system that all communist regimes kill people if they try to escape from there, lest they go abroad and tell what is there, and everyone wants to go and live in those communist countries (note the irony).

[TheNineClub]

and will allow the government to rules over people and abuse them and take advantage.

And what exactly is happening in the not communist capitalist world? The Governments don't rule over people? They don't abuse them? They don't take advantage of them? Really? Because I know people who lost jobs and wound up on streets while the governments were bailing out financial institutions back in 2008. Do you know what else I heard of? People losing their jobs and livelihood when accused (falsely or legit) of being communist supporters, and put on trial (U.S. in the 50s). What about monarchies in the Arab world, where they abuse workers that come into the country to work (Looking at you Dubai). 1 in 6 children—12.5 million—live in food-insecure households in the U.S. I was never hungry not once when I lived in a Socialist country and we were lower middle class.

[Snappycoco]

Only their leaders and the rich ones are enjoying this kind of government. The hunger in NK is caused by poor government who's crazy in building weapons rather than producing food added by economic sanctions given by international community. Their leaders are having their best lives while their constituents where hungry and having no opportunities to have a good life. I feel sad for these people.