Do you think some plagiarism can happen "by mistake"?

[Poker Player]

I'm not talking about someone who copy-pasted without quoting the source in a dozen posts or more. Maybe someone who has only one case of plagiarism in all his post history and has written like 5k posts.

The question came to my mind because of the latest reported case of plagiarism. Mpamaegbu and Pokapoka124 were recently accepted into the Best Change sig campaign, which, AFAIK, is the second best-paying campaign on the forum. Then:

when a user is accepted into one of the better-paid campaigns, necessarily goes under the microscope. all posts are checked backwards, it didn’t get around either Mpamaegbu and Pokapoka124.
Just receive PM about the potential ^{it looks like it is} plagiarism by these two users.
Here:
Mpamaegbu
Pokapoka124

Only Mpamaegbu has replied so far, saying that it was kind of "by mistake", but I don't want to discuss those individual cases here, because I think there will be discussed in the plagiarism and/or sig campaign threads.

The question is whether we can believe that any plagiarism happens by accident. I have been searching and have not found any posts that are exactly on this topic, although I have found two interesting but somewhat opposite opinions in posts on plagiarism:

... people don't plagiarize by mistake, it is always intentional.

Sort of "accidental" plagiarism should be really uncommon; especially if the statement was something really really common.

For example: "A hardware wallet is the best option for holding your cryptocurrencies long-term". While I literally just wrote that myself right now with no intent of copying anyone, I wouldn't be surprised if the same exact line was posted at least once in the past on some article or forum post. Obviously this shouldn't be bannable simply because it's very common information.

What do you think? Is plagiarism always intentional or can there be some specific cases in which it is not? It is not clear to me.

[1714890324]

1714890324

[1714890324]

1714890324

[tranthidung]

Is plagiarism always intentional or can there be some specific cases in which it is not? It is not clear to me.

Possibly.

• It's why plagiarism report will be handled case-by-case and very careful by moderators.
• Moderators won't carelessly use their ban hammers immediately after they receive a plagiarism report. They will look at proof of plagiarism and post history.
• It will be handled by moderators and escalate to global moderators or admins. With the complicated escalation process, I don't think reports will be handled inaccurately.

Plagiarism is what gets people permabanned, not just copying. Plagiarism is copying with the intent of passing the work off as your own. In essentially all cases, plagiarism deserves a permaban because it usually proves definitively that the person is here for the wrong reasons: to fill up space in order to get paid, not to actually discuss or contribute. If someone was able to convince us that they were plagiarizing just to eg. impress people rather than to fill up space, then a lesser ban of a few months might instead be warranted. But this has never happened AFAICR. (Arguments based on plausible deniability aren't going to work; we don't need to prove that you had the motive we see in your actions.)

Posts are reported to moderators who check out the report. If the poster needs to be banned, the moderator sends a ban report up to a global mod or admin. The global mod or admin handles all of the ban reports they get at around the same time. Either the admins or global mods don't need to check every account because they trust the moderators to have already done so, or they check quickly because every such report contains references and links to the plagiarism post and to the source text so checking takes little time.

[jackg]

Saying "sort of by mistake" kinda sounds like "just did it a few times and hoped not to get caught". I mean I could be wrong but how do you manage to accidentally plagiarise - especially on a different thread (I could guess on the same thread someone could quote someone and edit the quotes so it looks like their word but would probably be just fixed anyway by them or a mod).

[DaveF]

By mistake, once or twice, possibly.

But there is a difference between a few lines of text that someone forgot to quote, or possibly since they have known it and used the wording for so long they no longer think of it as needed to be quoted. Much like the hardware wallet quote from mk4 above.

But a blob of text from a well known news story or just well known in general

Bitcoin touched an all-time high of around $65,000

vs

Bitcoin, the oldest and the most popular cryptocurrency in the world, saw a meteoric rise in its value over the past six months despite experts, critics, and sceptics issuing regular warnings and expressing their doubts about its sustenance. Just last month, around the same time, the virtual currency had touched an all-time high of nearly $65,000

Somewhere in between those 2 quotes there is a line that turns it into plagiarism.

However, the bulk copy pasting of paragraphs of text, there really is no wiggle room with that.

-Dave

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Sort of "accidental" plagiarism should be really uncommon; especially if the statement was something really really common.
For example: "A hardware wallet is the best option for holding your cryptocurrencies long-term". While I literally just wrote that myself right now with no intent of copying anyone, I wouldn't be surprised if the same exact line was posted at least once in the past on some article or forum post. Obviously this shouldn't be bannable simply because it's very common information.

That example by mk4 is plausible, because there are generic types of statements we've read that we might rewrite from memory without realizing it, but those IMO would tend to be very short statements and could be "mistakes".  That's the only scenario in which I can see someone making a good argument that they didn't plagiarize something.

But in general, I think that 99.99% of plagiarism is not done mistakenly.  But what have we learned from all the ban appeal threads when someone gets busted for plagiarism?  They claim it was a "mistake".  So it doesn't surprise me that Mpamaegbu is making that argument (though I don't know the details behind it).  If it only happened once and it was one of those sentences that anybody could write, then maybe it was unintentional--we'll see once all the facts are in.  Most of the time, though, there's no mistake at all.  The member caught copy/pasting really did do that.

[Saidasun]

Maybe if they are new to the forum they would have a defense but if you are a experienced member everyone knows that you need to include a source whenever you copy text from somewhere else on the internet. If they do not do that then that is their own fault because they have neglected the rules and have ignored the weekly topics we have here about being banned for plagiarism.

But in general, I think that 99.99% of plagiarism is not done mistakenly.  But what have we learned from all the ban appeal threads when someone gets busted for plagiarism?  They claim it was a "mistake".  So it doesn't surprise me that Mpamaegbu is making that argument (though I don't know the details behind it).  If it only happened once and it was one of those sentences that anybody could write, then maybe it was unintentional--we'll see once all the facts are in.  Most of the time, though, there's no mistake at all.  The member caught copy/pasting really did do that.

They claim that it was a mistake or they did not know because it is hard to prove but they should not go unpunished if they have been caught plagiarizing by mistake because this would quickly cause a surge of other people claiming the same to get away with it.

[RapTarX]

I wouldn’t buy a story who would say that they did it mistakenly. How come a copy paste job would be done mistakenly? Well, someone may forgot to share the source but that still is quite illogical. In my case, I used to cross check a post whether I'm missing something or whether I need to add some more texts. I believe most people do that. If someone don't do that, it's their fault and should be punished by the forum rules. If anyone gets passed, there will be excuse for everyone to say "it was a mistake".
Mistake can only happen if someone writes a ton of copy paste article and share but forget to share the source link.

[suchmoon]

This should be reasonably obvious on a Bitcoin forum I think. We're trusting immense amounts of wealth to a combination of 24 words. Even allowing for certain common language constructs, the chances of someone accidentally posting the same thing as someone else are... well, very low to say the least.

Having said that, there is a bigger issue here about prevention vs cure. If a simple sentence was added to the "Post reply" / "Start new topic" page next to the "Post" button, e.g. "don't make low value unnecessary posts and make sure to add links/quotes if you copied text written by someone else", I think that would significantly help users who don't really intend to plagiarize, but perhaps don't know (cultural differences and whatnot) that unreferenced copypasta is not cool, or forget to format it properly. It would also invalidate some common excuses that plagiarists use in ban appeals. This has been discussed ad nauseam and is a really minor tweak but unfortunately doesn't seem to be a priority for theymos.

[hugeblack]

Mistakes may occur but it must be taken case-by-case and then making the decision. who made a plagiarism from a high quality topic and  making an effort  is not like who copies the first result of Google's search or want to get more merits for paid posts.

Generally as long as plagiarism is prohibited, all members and all the ranks are the same as the same.
Unfortunately,  high-ranking member have a chance to try to justify their position more than newbies.

[Upgrade00]

What do you think? Is plagiarism always intentional or can there be some specific cases in which it is not? It is not clear to me.

Imo, plagiarism can be unintentional; A user can quote someone else without any intention of stealing the idea and forget to link the source. They are difficult to prove but is possible.

Unfortunately,  high-ranking member have a chance to try to justify their position more than newbies.

From the discussions theymos has had on ban cases, rank does not really matter much, what's most important when considering to oardkn a violator of the rules is their contribution to the forum, i.e, if they are net positive to the forum.
Newbies are fairly new and would have spent too little a time to impact the forum much, but they would not be disregarded simply casue they are 'new'.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Looking at Mpamaegbu posting history, he has many posts reference before the post found to be plagiarized was created and after that post, he also had other post correctly referenced. Now he also pointed out that the topic has been locked from the very day of creation and that could have been because the thread was locked by moderators and as such can't be edited assuming he realizes he forgot to include the link.

Also if you go through the thread like I have done you'll notice he got a suggestion of similar thread already existing so that could have been why the thread was locked. I'm not trying to justify his actions here but I think his case should be treated with some grace like others have, assuming he was to be punished for this mistakes of his as clearly pointed out.

Plagiarism shouldn't be welcomed/tolerated on the forum, that been said, if the moderators find his actions to be punishable which I would second, it shouldn't be a permanent ban though because cases like this could actually be a mistake and the user in question isn't a spammer nor will you say he hasn't been a productive member of the community.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Ah, I understand the situation now--when I read the OP this morning I was barely awake and didn't look into the particulars, but I just did (at least as far as Mpamaegbu is concerned). 

Forgetting to cite a source is something anyone could do, and in Mpamaegbu's case I think it might be the truth.  I just posted my opinion about it in the Report Plagiarism thread where it was uncovered.  If that turns out to be the only instance of Mpamaegbu not citing a source, then I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt if I were the manager of the BestChange campaign.  As I said in my post, I'm fairly certain Mpamaegbu knows the consequences of plagiarizing and that a good number of members are hard at work sniffing out examples of it. 

In my previous post I said that "mistakes" usually don't happen, and that they're just an excuse members make up when they're busted.  I'm still sticking to that, but this might be one of those times where forgetting to put in the citation actually did happen.  Mpamaegbu's post history is probably being combed through for other instances of plagiarism as we speak, so we'll see what turns up (if anything).

I'm much less familiar with Pokapoka124 as a member, so I have no opinion on his/her posting habits, nor has that member said anything about the accusation that I'm aware of.  I'd say if any other examples of plagiarism show up from either account, then we know what we're dealing with--not mistakes but intentional plagiarism, and the usual consequences will ensue. 

[suchmoon]

Forgetting to cite a source is something anyone could do, and in Mpamaegbu's case I think it might be the truth.  I just posted my opinion about it in the Report Plagiarism thread where it was uncovered.  If that turns out to be the only instance of Mpamaegbu not citing a source, then I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt if I were the manager of the BestChange campaign.  As I said in my post, I'm fairly certain Mpamaegbu knows the consequences of plagiarizing and that a good number of members are hard at work sniffing out examples of it. 

Well, Mpamaegbu got banned but I think he should appeal the ban. I know I just recently complained that plagiarists don't get banned after multiple reports but can't we just find a nice cozy middle ground. There is enough reason to believe that he didn't intend to claim the text as his own.

[decodx]

Forgetting to cite a source is something anyone could do, and in Mpamaegbu's case I think it might be the truth.  I just posted my opinion about it in the Report Plagiarism thread where it was uncovered.  If that turns out to be the only instance of Mpamaegbu not citing a source, then I'd probably give him the benefit of the doubt if I were the manager of the BestChange campaign.  As I said in my post, I'm fairly certain Mpamaegbu knows the consequences of plagiarizing and that a good number of members are hard at work sniffing out examples of it.  

Well, Mpamaegbu got banned but I think he should appeal the ban. I know I just recently complained that plagiarists don't get banned after multiple reports but can't we just find a nice cozy middle ground. There is enough reason to believe that he didn't intend to claim the text as his own.

I bet he now regrets joining BestChange at all, as he could have continued to live happily in the Roobet campaign and no one would have been any wiser.  

Anyhow, back to the topic. How about introducing three strikes rule? First strike - a warning, second strike - a temporary ban, third strike - a permanent ban.
In essence, this would eliminate serial plagiarists and give those who inadvertently plagiarized a second chance.

[tranthidung]

Anyhow, back to the topic. How about introducing three strikes rule? First strike - a warning, second strike - a temporary ban, third strike - a permanent ban.
In essence, this would eliminate serial plagiarists and give those who inadvertently plagiarized a second chance.

Most of plagiarists are serial plagiarists.

• Alternatives to Permabans for plagarism
• I think the second chance is a kind of alternative that was implemented since 2019. Because of this, I don't think there will be multiple strikes before a permanent ban is used. If you get a ban, make a ban appeal and look for a second chance.

[Woodie]

If this is an issue of one post which is involved  with copy and pasting without quoting the source that deserves the benefit of the doubt and could be Mistake. But then again a mistake can only be made if you know the rules and forgot to abide by them   but for someone that's unaware of such a rule they wouldn't see this to be a mistake.

So for someone that's likely to know the rules and has made 2 or more of these kind of posts that's an intentional act and not a mistake, unless the said mistakes have a time gap between them just my 2cents.

[rat03gopoh]

Now he also pointed out that the topic has been locked from the very day of creation and that could have been because the thread was locked by moderators and as such can't be edited assuming he realizes he forgot to include the link.

Don't know if thereis some kind of setting on the mods side of thread unlocking permissions/capabilities. Based on what I've experienced is, iirc the OP can also open their own thread which is locked by the staff (maybe the same even if the lock is done by mods or admins). cmiiw
In @Mpamaegbu's case, that thread was locked which s/he didn't. Just My assumption, (1st mistake) s/he has no idea that s/he can unlock it (if my initial explanation is correct) to add the source link and (2nd mistake) just forget about it without worrying that it will cause the biggest problem someday.

But I agree that @Mpamaegbu should open a ban appeal topic even though s/he has a small chance. Looking at her/his achievements, some of the other members would probably support that s/he deserves a second chance with a lighter penalty instead.

[Pmalek]

Anyhow, back to the topic. How about introducing three strikes rule? First strike - a warning, second strike - a temporary ban, third strike - a permanent ban.

Any changes that were to be made concerning plagiarized content and account banning would just bring about new discussions and complaints, such as:
Where was this rule when I was banned? I only had one plagiarized post, why did I not get a warning instead of a ban? Etc., etc.

If someone browses this forum, reads books about Bitcoin, and watches YouTube videos on that subject, that person has probably acquired all kinds of info and knowledge that he will remember. Naturally, it's hard to remember what you heard or read where. But when making a post or replying to someone on Bitcointalk, you can always say something like: "I read", "I remember seeing", "Member X said in one of his posts", "I can't remember the source, but...." 

All that relieves you of the responsibility that you are trying to make it look like what was written are your words. You don't have to cite the source for everything if you don' know it, but make sure to mention that someone else said it. I haven't looked into what Mpamaegbu and Pokapoka124 are blamed for, so this is only a general recommendation.

[mindrust]

I'd say if it happened only one time, maybe the person that did it forgot to put the quote marks, sometimes it happens.

Also we need to check if the poster tells about his own view on the matter along side with the quoted/plagiarized content.

If he only copy pastes and never put quote marks/tags without telling anything else, then he is a plagiarizing pos 100%.

[UserU]

Well, Mpamaegbu got banned but I think he should appeal the ban. I know I just recently complained that plagiarists don't get banned after multiple reports but can't we just find a nice cozy middle ground. There is enough reason to believe that he didn't intend to claim the text as his own.

Damn, what a pity.

I just concluded a deal with him. He was really understanding and willing to wait when I had some unforeseen delays on returning the funds to him, and him sending the funds first.

Contrary to popular belief, there are indeed cases of genuine mistakes done by even the most senior members; we all did at some point in our lives (not just on this forum). If it was intentional, they wouldn't even bother spending so much effort and time to rank up. Otherwise the signature ban wouldn't even take place.

Sometimes a second chance does help in such cases.