Whats your opinion on a fully 100% premined coin?

[DubFX]

this topic is lame. who the fuck wants a 100% premined coin.

which miner wants a 100% premined coin? None

non-miner? Absolutely

Yeah this statement seems about right.

[1714515256]

1714515256

[kalus]

So day 1 coin should remain with crypto, miner and computer people?  ... Doesnt sound like a community at all... sounds like a club for the elite

oh no "information" and "knowledge"  make people elite.

the entire fucking planet is a club for the elite.  welcome to earf.

[UnNamedCoin]

So day 1 coin should remain with crypto, miner and computer people?  ... Doesnt sound like a community at all... sounds like a club for the elite

oh no "information" and "knowledge"  make people elite.

the entire fucking planet is a club for the elite.  welcome to earf.

No... you said people who only know Crypto, Mining and Computers should be for day1.. Has that changed now to include a broader range of people?

So which ones shouldn't be allowed to have day1 coins? Maybe that is an easier question

[kalus]

No... you said people who only know Crypto, Mining and Computers should be for day1..

that's not what i said.  I stated:

people who:

know little or nothing about crypto,

little or nothing about mining,

little or nothing about computers,

have no business investing. i'm continually amazed how little research people do into their own investments. people that don't bother educating themselves won't make money here:  you've described the perfect conman's mark.  

you claim this is elitist.  i think knowing something about what you're investing into is smart investing.  

people that know nothing about what they're investing will get scammed here. 

[UnNamedCoin]

No... you said people who only know Crypto, Mining and Computers should be for day1..

that's not what i said.  I stated:

people who:

know little or nothing about crypto,

little or nothing about mining,

little or nothing about computers,

have no business investing. i'm continually amazed how little research people do into their own investments. people that don't bother educating themselves won't make money here:  you've described the perfect conman's mark.  

you claim this is elitist.  i think knowing something about what you're investing into is smart investing.  

people that know nothing about what they're investing will get scammed here. 

So if I dont know crypto mining and computers, I have no business in investing?

I hope some of those the invested in Bitcoin years ago and didnt know your 3 criteria, realize what a mistake they have just made... better give those coins to crypto people who know how to manage it properly... -sic-

[r0ach]

this topic is lame. who the fuck wants a 100% premined coin.

[kalus]

So if I dont know crypto mining and computers, I have no business in investing?

correct.  i'm glad you are getting this after the third time.

No... you said people who only know Crypto, Mining and Computers should be for day1..

there's a big difference between what i said, and what you're discussing.

i'm continually amazed how little research people do into their own investments. people that don't bother educating themselves won't make money here:  you've described the perfect conman's mark. 

i'm saying that without basic knowledge about cryptocurrencies, low-information investors will get conned.

read, comprehend, then post.  

this topic is lame. who the fuck wants a 100% premined coin.

this too.

[r0ach]

Oh, the original post was made by what we refer to as "dumb money".  I see.  If you have no idea what you're doing, buy Bitcoin and hope for the best.  If you know what you're doing, you can buy other stuff and make or lose 1000% in one day.

[kelsey]

100% premine is ok for experimenting with distribution models (after all pow was only meant as a shortterm solution for btc). However no one has successfully done a 'fair' distribution yet and very easy to scam for devs, or gamed by others.

[g4c]

PROS  :
After coin premine and distribution you would need nodes to perform transactions, but you could keep difficulty low and just have mining done by clients wallet on CPU. Client wallets on laptops could be active mining nodes forever. YAY!

CONS :
A pre mined coin is too easy to produce. Anyone could fork Bitcoin tonight and pre mine 21M coins. And so it is worth very little.

It's like saying, let's not bother with gold, all the environmental pollution the mining causes is terrible! Instead of gold lets just use something else, so instead of 1Oz of gold you can use 1Oz of gravel... I have 10 tons of gravel in my truck, let's all use that.

Even if you did succeed and get it off the ground then thed network difficulty would be so low that a bigger chain fork could be created with modest hardware.

[UnNamedCoin]

100% premine is ok for experimenting with distribution models (after all pow was only meant as a shortterm solution for btc). However no one has successfully done a 'fair' distribution yet and very easy to scam for devs, or gamed by others.

Thanks kelsey for a mature reply. I am only guessing, but I think a lot scams are being done by the crypto/computer crowd who dont see the value in a long term business model and only concern themselves with a quick buck at no work effort.... inputs.io was run by a kid... MtGox was run by a computer guy with no business acumen and I would guess again, that most on this forum members are kids... I dont see much maturity here at all

The CoinSummit in San Francisco pointed out some of the problems with Bitcoin as it is now.
That being the inexperienced people running all these platforms.

Perhaps they should stick to their crypto, mining and computers and let proper business managers and investors oversee and manage these people.

[r0ach]

The Federal Reserve discovered a scam that they could create currency out of thin air and issue it for profit.  Random Bitcointalk members discovered they could issue premine and IPO scam coins for self profit.  The cycle continues.

It has pretty much nothing to do with "kids".

[UnNamedCoin]

PROS  :
After coin premine and distribution you would need nodes to perform transactions, but you could keep difficulty low and just have mining done by clients wallet on CPU. Client wallets on laptops could be active mining nodes forever. YAY!

CONS :
A pre mined coin is too easy to produce. Anyone could fork Bitcoin tonight and pre mine 21M coins. And so it is worth very little.

It's like saying, let's not bother with gold, all the environmental pollution the mining causes is terrible! Instead of gold lets just use something else, so instead of 1Oz of gold you can use 1Oz of gravel... I have 10 tons of gravel in my truck, let's all use that.

Even if you did succeed and get it off the ground then thed network difficulty would be so low that a bigger chain fork could be created with modest hardware.

Fair comment. I understand that premining is easy and it would be the distribution and the platforms it runs on that would make it viable.
As for your other comment... Unlike gravel, premined coins just cant be picked up off the ground... Limiting production would eventually make it valuable. I think the Apple II has only risen in value, not because it a powerful machine, but because its a rare commodity now and for all intents and purposes, could act as a currency.

[kalus]

I dont see much maturity here at all

The CoinSummit in San Francisco pointed out some of the problems with Bitcoin as it is now.
That being the inexperienced people running all these platforms.

Perhaps they should stick to their crypto, mining and computers and let proper business managers and investors oversee and manage these people.

So your suggesting the Bitcoin remain in the hands of those that know about crypto, mining and computers... That just ruled out 99% of the world

[UnNamedCoin]

The Federal Reserve discovered a scam that they could create currency out of thin air and issue it for profit.  Random Bitcointalk members discovered they could issue premine and IPO scam coins for self profit.  The cycle continues.

It has pretty much nothing to do with "kids".

The kid comment was only to explain the screaming and attacking that goes on here. Civility helps communication more than yelling matches 

It was kids/young people that started Napster, Apple, MS and so on and I don't in any way mean to devalue their efforts.

It was only when Steve Jobs matured, did he make better business decisions and got control back of Apple... Gates, well he was just a business guy to start off with.

[g4c]

PROS  :
After coin premine and distribution you would need nodes to perform transactions, but you could keep difficulty low and just have mining done by clients wallet on CPU. Client wallets on laptops could be active mining nodes forever. YAY!

CONS :
A pre mined coin is too easy to produce. Anyone could fork Bitcoin tonight and pre mine 21M coins. And so it is worth very little.

It's like saying, let's not bother with gold, all the environmental pollution the mining causes is terrible! Instead of gold lets just use something else, so instead of 1Oz of gold you can use 1Oz of gravel... I have 10 tons of gravel in my truck, let's all use that.

Even if you did succeed and get it off the ground then thed network difficulty would be so low that a bigger chain fork could be created with modest hardware.

Fair comment. I understand that premining is easy and it would be the distribution and the platforms it runs on that would make it viable.
As for your other comment... Unlike gravel, premined coins just cant be picked up off the ground... Limiting production would eventually make it valuable. I think the Apple II has only risen in value, not because it a powerful machine, but because its a rare commodity now and for all intents and purposes, could act as a currency.

It would be easier for me to aquire 21M premined MyCoins than it would be to aquire 21M pieces of gravel. So In a way gravel has more worth.

My point is that when the coins are first premined they are worth nothing globally. Of course they would be worth something in the optimistic eyes of the creator, and he would have to convince others of their worth.

You would need a lot of "clout" to get a premine to ignite, you would need massive media expenditure. I would think only a government or large corporate entity could be successful at igniting a premine.

If it did take off: the network hashpower to capital ratio would be too low to secure the coin against large fork attacks.

I think "Expensive" things are not easy to produce and/or mantain.

[Don007]

I don't like 100% premined ~ centralized coins, because I think coins as BTC etc are worth something because of the fact they are decentralized.

Because no one, no government or agency or party can directly affect your wallet, it has some advantages.

[b¡tco¡n]

OP: Hey miners ... f*** you here is a 100% premined coin. Enjoy your minuscule transaction fees! You ain't getting any honey from my coin ma ha ha!
Miner: Tap tap tap
OP: What you doing?
Miner: Configuring my rig to point to a more profitable coin, say DOGE
OP: Cool whatever.
OP: Oh why can't I send this transaction been waiting 2 days now. Scratches head.
Tech Friend: Check the network hashrate. It is zero.
OP: What does that mean?
Tech Friend: No one is mining.
OP: Why do I care. I hate miners, I am a preminer. A 100% Preminer.
Tech Friend: Miners are required to confirm transactions. They are rewarded with coins for their blocks.
OP: Oh so I need miners.
Tech Friend: Yes
OP: So maybe I leave a few coins for them?
Tech Friend: Yes
OP: So 100% premine not so good?
Tech Friend: Got it.

[g4c]

I don't like 100% premined ~ centralized coins, because I think coins as BTC etc are worth something because of the fact they are decentralized.

Because no one, no government or agency or party can directly affect your wallet, it has some advantages.

Definitely, centralisation won't work for humans, one monkey ALWAYS takes advantage.

But, even if a premine were somehow fairly distributed evenly to every person on the planet, so the centralisation issue were null and void, premine would still be vulnerable due to relatively weak network hash power.

[g4c]

OP: Hey miners ... f*** you here is a 100% premined coin. Enjoy your minuscule transaction fees! You ain't getting any honey from my coin ma ha ha!
Miner: Tap tap tap
OP: What you doing?
Miner: Configuring my rig to point to a more profitable coin, say DOGE
OP: Cool whatever.
OP: Oh why can't I send this transaction been waiting 2 days now. Scratches head.
Tech Friend: Check the network hashrate. It is zero.
OP: What does that mean?
Tech Friend: No one is mining.
OP: Why do I care. I hate miners, I am a preminer. A 100% Preminer.
Tech Friend: Miners are required to confirm transactions. They are rewarded with coins for their blocks.
OP: Oh so I need miners.
Tech Friend: Yes
OP: So maybe I leave a few coins for them?
Tech Friend: Yes
OP: So 100% premine not so good?
Tech Friend: Got it.

Every wallet owner could be a miner (transactor), the original bitcoin client had a CPU miner in it, when the DIF was very low.

So in theory a 100% premine would not need miners, instead every wallet owner would hash transactions, it would run pretty sweetly, that is until someone did a nefarious large fork.

So yes, you need big rigs mining at high DIF. for a secure network. the network hashpower needs to be proportional to the coins total capital.

Any premine that becomes successful and has low difficulty will get robbed, guaranteed!