The Bitcoin Machine

[BlackHatCoiner]

You can go and buy the parts yourself. And assemble it yourself. Or you can have someone else do it.

Of course and it's possible to purchase the stuff on your own. You're discouraging me to do it, though, if I don't know how or if I find the procedure difficult. Let's be honest, from those $429, what exactly am I paying for? A RPi 4, a 1TB drive and a bunch of other cheap accessories which all cost less than $150, but let's assume they do cost that much.

 429
-150
 ----
 $279

So, I revert back. Don't you find it too much money for a stranger to set me up this? It looks rather exploitation to me.

Yeah, I think you should move to some communist country (if you are not living there already) and demand to get everything for free.

You don't have to be ironic to provide your point of view. Also, in a communist country you don't get everything for free, but rather the opposite.

[dkbit98]

You don't have to be ironic to provide your point of view. Also, in a communist country you don't get everything for free, but rather the opposite.

Opposite how?
All you phones, gadgets, computer chips and devices are coming from communist country called China.
In communist and socialist countries people are always complaining and wanting something cheaper and free, because government ''knows'' better.
You have ''free'' health care and bunch of other things, than you want free basic income and in few decades you end up in ruins.
Working people in China are almost slaves, and they have second class citizens in prison camps who are real slaves.
That is the price of CHEAP stuff.

So, I revert back. Don't you find it too much money for a stranger to set me up this? It looks rather exploitation to me.

Oh poor you, they are totally exploiting you, those evil capitalist from India  

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don't want to continue this further, because I may put my effort into this for nothing as it gets off-topic. That's why I'll (try to) only respond once.

Working people in China are almost slaves

You're thinking this falsely. Let me ask you a question; if you were born in China, and were used into living in a communist society, do you think you'd be unhappy? Do you think Chinese are unhappy with the system of government they serve? I believe that even if some disagree with this polity, they're used in living under these circumstances.

It's easy to judge if you're outside China and born in a capitalistic country which is “freeing” than that. (With a thousand of quotation marks)

You may call a dog, which eats once a day, a poor dog, as you think it's unhappy, but in reality you're imagining yourself under these circumstances which seem horrible since you eat much frequent than once a day. The dog is fine; it has used into living this way.


Again, in my opinion, I find this Bitcoin machine pricy.

[n0nce]

Most places seem to be out of stock on RPi units but all the places I looked at seem to have arrival dates of the next batch from early to mid October.
Give it a few weeks more due to the issues of shipping anything at the moment you should be able to have one in a month or so.

So that's why I couldn't find any of those locally ^{[I would probably wait for another month to see if I could get my hands on one of these]}.
^{- Again, thank you for providing useful information, I appreciate it}

I usually try to find official distributors for most products to make sure I get good genuine first-hand products. In the case of Raspberry Pi, you can select your location and find shops here.

It seems right now, Makerbright just has a 7 day lead time, not too bad. Maybe the others (which declare it as sold out) will be as fast, though. CanaKit also has some in stock if you get it as a 'starter kit' with SD card. And MicroCenter has it 'Available for In-Store Pickup Only'.

Of course and it's possible to purchase the stuff on your own. You're discouraging me to do it, though, if I don't know how or if I find the procedure difficult. Let's be honest, from those $429, what exactly am I paying for? A RPi 4, a 1TB drive and a bunch of other cheap accessories which all cost less than $150, but let's assume they do cost that much.

So, calculated in euro with tax added, it came out to around 430€ for the 'Bitcoin Machine' and around 300€ to build it yourself with this case (100 bucks) or 240 with a cheaper case that has no screen. There is a good markup, sure, but 150 shouldn't be enough to DIY it (even before tax) and it's manual labour to set them up, sync them and see that all runs fine & these guys surely have to pay fees to run their business and whatnot.

I checked MicroCenter website: Pi = $75, MX500 1TB = $100, Argon One m.2 = $50, PSU = $6. The total is $231.

I mean: even the 1TB SSD that you buy at MicroCenter for 99 bucks cost them way less to produce; that's normal Everything's highly marked up for the end-consumer ^^ I once read that supermarkets have around 70% markup on most stuff.

[dkbit98]

I checked MicroCenter website: Pi = $75, MX500 1TB = $100, Argon One m.2 = $50, PSU = $6. The total is $231.

Bitcoin Machine is not for everyone but I think it's still a cool project with decent price of average smartphone people usually change every few years, and it reminds me on BlockClock project by Coinkite with that nice display.
I don't know if it's possible to show Bitcoin blocks on display or only price and temperature, but github is showing it's very customizable so maybe it's possible.
If you don't care about your privacy or running your own node, than you obviously don't need this.

[SFR10]

I usually try to find official distributors for most products to make sure I get good genuine first-hand products. In the case of Raspberry Pi, you can select your location and find shops here.

Same here but at the moment, there's none on where I'm residing.
^{- Thank you for the link}

It seems right now, Makerbright just has a 7 day lead time, not too bad. Maybe the others (which declare it as sold out) will be as fast, though. CanaKit also has some in stock if you get it as a 'starter kit' with SD card. And MicroCenter has it 'Available for In-Store Pickup Only'.

Not sure about the first two, but AFAIK MicroCenter is based in the US and I can't receive packages from there and despite knowing a few workarounds, I'd prefer to purchase it from a local reseller ^{[unfortunately, that means an unofficial one]} so I don't have to deal with customs here ^{[they tend to ask for licenses if someone else already imports such items to the country (it's ridiculous and not worth the trouble)]}.

I don't know if it's possible to show Bitcoin blocks on display or only price and temperature, but github is showing it's very customizable so maybe it's possible.

It's possible ^{[third image]}: Bitcoin Machine LCD with Bitcoin and Satoshi Logo (ver 0.4)

[Dabs]

Off topic already, but since we are doing price comparisons, a cheap laptop would cost around $200 to $300. Add a 1 TB SSD and you can run a full node, has more cores, has more memory (or maybe the same) ... But is not as small as a raspi, or as low power usage.

If you're doing all these sorts of experiments, a rack server, if you have the space for it, or even some desktop workstation, refurbished, and you can install your own OS and virtual machine and stuff, and run a bunch of nodes, all for under $600?

The bitcoin machine fits a very specific purpose, and all other small pi machines.

It's not ideal, but I've been running my full node from a laptop, now it's on my desktop (just copied the block files), because it's on 24/7. Full node since 2012.

[n0nce]

If the cost of this product is >$400, they might as well as offer Intel/AMD option (similar with Intel NUC). It might be $100-$200 more expensive, but you get more powerful device. And maybe with more I/O ports.

Me and others already mentioned that just getting an old laptop (which is basically the same hardware you find in NUCs) can be cheaper and more performant than building something yourself with a Pi with everything new. However, I think the biggest point for ARM devices like Raspberry Pi and the like is the power consumption. If you don't care about power consumption, you could even argue that a laptop is 'small enough' or compact enough (which would be the other point of getting something Pi-based).

As an example for an all-in-one NUC solution; I can find second-hand NUC with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD for under 400 bucks. However laptops with same specs can be got for 200ish.

[n0nce]

~

Ohh right, you mean they could base the product on an Intel NUC. Well sure, but then what is there even left to do for them They could actually just buy NUCs, install a prepared ISO file which includes OS, all software, blockchain download up to a certain point and ship it out. No need for custom case and SATA adapter.
But yeah it kind of makes sense. This product is an SBC with SATA board, power supply and case, which is basically exactly what the NUC is already.

Only thing it would lack would be the screen. So we're looking at just putting a NUC inside a box and attaching a screen. I mean at that point they could also just sell the ISO (without blockchain download maybe ) for download and people can buy NUCs on their own ^^

[LoyceV]

Wouldn't a Chromebook be a good alternative in between a second hand laptop and a new RPi?
Chromebooks are very cheap for the hardware you get, just add a large microSD card to store the blockchain.

Disclaimer: I've never tried this.

[DaveF]

It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.

You can get a NUC but they still can't do this:



And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.

-Dave

[n0nce]

It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.

Oh right, that's a valid point that I missed so far! I noticed for example that my old laptop's cooling is absolutely abysmal so I had to hook the fan up to the USB's 5V rail directly and step it down a bit using a buck converter so the laptop stays cool.

[LoyceV]

Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting.

In my experience, that's not much of a problem: every laptop I ever broke, broke from travel (cracked housing from opening/closing, damaged power connectors, AKA usually mechanical problems), not from running on a desk for years. It only requires cleaning the fan once in a while and can literally last for years in a row.
I wouldn't buy one of those high TDP systems though, heat is terrible in a laptop.

[dkbit98]

Off topic already, but since we are doing price comparisons, a cheap laptop would cost around $200 to $300. Add a 1 TB SSD and you can run a full node, has more cores, has more memory (or maybe the same) ... But is not as small as a raspi, or as low power usage.

You can even get cheap used desktop computer with SSD drive, but all point here is focused on plug-and-play solution, meaning no installation and no setting up.
This would be like you could buy a computer that already have preset and installed everything for running Bitcoin node, and I don't think it is possible to find that.
Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.

And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.

One more advantage I see is that Rpi has virtually no noise if you are not using any ventilators, and you can get pretty good cooling with aluminum heatsinks.

[n0nce]

Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.

Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!
I have to say; I had bad experiences with power losses on Pis; tons of corrupted data (read: re-download and verify many many blocks...), whereas crashes on desktops and laptops never had such an issue. But I digress

[dkbit98]

Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.
UPS is much different thing, but many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.
I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

[LoyceV]

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.

Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.

many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.

Mind if I call those experts dumb? A replacement battery costs what: $50? That's totally worth having a build-in UPS in case of power failure (or more likely: accidentally unplugging it). What's the point of having a battery if you're afraid to use it?
The laptop just stops charging when it's full. I'm aware that 100% full reduces the battery life, a lower charge is better for optimal storage. Ideally, laptops should just have the option to keep the battery charged at 50%, but I guess not many users would use that feature.

I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

Search for "fanless laptops"

[Timelord2067]

Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you?  Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.

[n0nce]

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.

Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.

I don't know, my experience was like Loyce It does reduce the capacity but not much and I prefer swapping it for 20$ after some years or just throwing it out; since the device isn't going to ever be used as a laptop again anyway.
And I agree that it's not a UPS but it gives almost the same benefit at 0 extra cost.

I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

Search for "fanless laptops"

Since my laptop is some trash that I don't even know where it came from, it does have a fan, but I just set it to around 3V (it's a 5V DC fan) using a buck converter wired to a USB port's + and - pads (all internal to the case). Totally silent in a corner of the room, doing its thing..

Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you?  Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.

Nope, that's wrong, you don't need a fixed IP. It is exactly the same as having a NUC with any OS and Core + Zap running, indeed. Just that this is preconfigured and all set up, consumes less power and it has a screen which the NUC does not. So it looks a bit cooler in a store or hackerspace for example.

[LoyceV]

I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.

Too often And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.