After a few months of China crackdown on mining. Check it out!

[franky1]

and yet some pools official data is still showing they are solving blocks from farms in china

https://pool.btc.com/en-US/pool-stats
(scroll to bottom)
8 blocks by just this pool are recorded to be mined in china on the 16th of october.
same day
2 blocks US
3 blocks EU

so it seems china is still on their record as being majority mining

[Dhaniii]

Finally something good about China. Lolz. I mean in perspective of rest of the world or non-China who always thought China could manipulate the market severely and destroy the decentralisation any time soon. The whole thing has turned upside down for the China if above values are accurate.

One thing is clear, China will see great amount of reduced income in their country. Just imagine almost 30+ % of mining power and at the current rate the bitcoin income could have been enormous!! It’s literally shut off for China in blink of an eye. Plus I’m not sure what are they gonna do about the hardware, rented mining places, and what not. This is serious damage to them.

their actions have cost themselves a disservice except they are just making issues to bring down the market temporarily and they start adopting bitcoins secretly in countless numbers. in that way they can dominate the markets and finance around the world. I don't think the Chinese are stupid but are playing with aces and creating markets under their control.

[hatshepsut93]

However, you are missing a point, top countries are different and most of them are Western countries that are totally different than China. In China, government controls all, there is no separations of power like in Wester countries. In Western countries, governments will face with serious demonstrations from their citizens that might lead to uncertainty in society that they don't want to face with.

Serious demonstrations? I very much doubt that, only a few percent of people use Bitcoin, and for any sort of protest to have a chance of success, it must be supported by at least 20-30% of the population. The thing that can more effectively stop such ban is political lobbying done by business that is interested in crypto, like exchanges, ETFs, companies. This is why the ongoing institutional adoption is a positive thing.

[tranthidung]

Serious demonstrations? I very much doubt that, only a few percent of people use Bitcoin, and for any sort of protest to have a chance of success, it must be supported by at least 20-30% of the population. The thing that can more effectively stop such ban is political lobbying done by business that is interested in crypto, like exchanges, ETFs, companies. This is why the ongoing institutional adoption is a positive thing.

I meant in the future, with bigger adoption in general population and with more investment and involvement from institutes or corporations.

I think in the future, the demographics of Bitcoiners will become younger and it will be unstoppable trend.

• Bitcoiners' Demographic over years
• According to Coin.dance, the Bitcoin community engagement by age as follows: 18-24: 16.65%, and 25-34: 41.35%

[stompix]

and yet some pools official data is still showing they are solving blocks from farms in china

https://pool.btc.com/en-US/pool-stats
(scroll to bottom)
8 blocks by just this pool are recorded to be mined in china on the 16th of october.
so it seems china is still on their record as being majority mining

Still, having trouble differentiating pols from miners and servers from nodes?
Do you really think those servers who how many poeple mine in Beijing?
You could do an experiment, set your miners to BTC pool, and check where...oh wait, sorry! I forgot you don't mine!
I was going to ask you how on earth there are no blocks mined from Philipines or Iran or Canada or Australia there but that would mean demanding too much.

I meant in the future, with bigger adoption in general population and with more investment and involvement from institutes or corporations.

How long in the future?
And what's the plan if they do this before you reach that point?
You can see in all those topics about Nigeria poeple claiming an outrageous number of users like million over millions yet the central bank banned financial transactions and there was nobody! protesting, If we look at real life, not twitter warriors.

Does this will affect the price if really happen ? if most countries are banning bitcoin and those countries are still available to mine are the country with high electricity bills. That means it's harder to got more bitcoin and ofcourse the price will be so much higher because the supply will be stuck and the demand keep increasing. I'd love to see that happen actually 

That's not how mining works. The supply will never be "stuck" unless nobody mines anymore, and if indeed the hashrate would drop to 1% for a period the pace will be again recovered at the adjustment. Also, a serious drop in hashrate to affect considerably the number of bitcoins mined would mean also fewer blocks, lower blockchain capacity, higher fees, I believe it would do more harm than the slight temporary decrease in coins issued.

[hatshepsut93]

I think in the future, the demographics of Bitcoiners will become younger and it will be unstoppable trend.

• Bitcoiners' Demographic over years
• According to Coin.dance, the Bitcoin community engagement by age as follows: 18-24: 16.65%, and 25-34: 41.35%

The fact that a large percentage of Bitcoin users is young doesn't mean that a lot of young people are using Bitcoin. In this context the important number is percentage of the population that uses Bitcoin, and currently it's in very low single digits for most countries, and much less than 1% globally.

Take marijuana for example, 15% of americans consume it regularly and over 50% at least tried it once, and yet it's still not legal in all states, and it was illegal for many decades and all the protesting didn't do much. Banning Bitcoin today would be an extremely easy action.

[tranthidung]

The fact that a large percentage of Bitcoin users is young doesn't mean that a lot of young people are using Bitcoin. In this context the important number is percentage of the population that uses Bitcoin, and currently it's in very low single digits for most countries, and much less than 1% globally.

I meant about the trend. Now, young people attribute to big percent of Bitcoin users and children now will have higher probability that they will use Bitcoin when they pass through 18+.

I meant the picture will be very different next ten years or next 20 years. Like the Internet or Facebook, especially Facebook, the elderly does not use that much initially but when it becomes a common application, more elderly will use it but it is not too much important. The more importance comes from the population of children and teenagers, they will be main parts of Bitcoin community.

[franky1]

and yet some pools official data is still showing they are solving blocks from farms in china

https://pool.btc.com/en-US/pool-stats
(scroll to bottom)
8 blocks by just this pool are recorded to be mined in china on the 16th of october.
so it seems china is still on their record as being majority mining

Still, having trouble differentiating pols from miners and servers from nodes?
Do you really think those servers who how many poeple mine in Beijing?
You could do an experiment, set your miners to BTC pool, and check where...oh wait, sorry! I forgot you don't mine!
I was going to ask you how on earth there are no blocks mined from Philipines or Iran or Canada or Australia there but that would mean demanding too much.

and by such. do you think cambridge knows more about a pools stratums/workers then the pool itself.

just saying.
cambridge has also said recently and in the past that the CO2 level of bitcoin mining is like 3-4x more than other calculations. simply because they used old outdated hardware, and heck they even couldnt do basic math of daily hashrate.
(they took hashrate of ONE DAY and used that as basis for whole year rate. even though real hashrate was lower for most other days.)

but hey. lets believe a source of data just because it sounds academic

[stompix]

cambridge has also said recently and in the past that the CO2 level of bitcoin mining is like 3-4x more than other calculations. simply because they used old outdated hardware, and heck they even couldnt do basic math of daily hashrate.
(they took hashrate of ONE DAY and used that as basis for whole year rate. even though real hashrate was lower for most other days.)

but hey. lets believe a source of data just because it sounds academic

Again, you speak without even bothering to check facts.
Cambridge data on power consumption and relation to CO2 is updated daily according to the hash rate and is constantly upgraded by changing the mix of hardware used for average consumption.

So, if you would have actually checked rather than writing non-sense you could have seen this:


But, if you're really interested, you can check their methodology and then try to make whatever point you want to. Next time try not to make a fool of yourself again, it's not even funny anymore.

[pooya87]

If you have a specific reason to doubt the information, I would encourage you to speak up, but I don’t think it is reasonable to make the assumption it is wrong.

I'm challenging the validity of the data they use because logically it makes no sense. For starters in a country with 1.4 billion people, there is bound to be a lot of solo miners. Additionally people can still mine bitcoin in Hong Kong (part of China). So when the data suggests 0 hashrate from China, it can not be right as it has to be at least something there.

There is also another possibility that the pools are hiding their China stats and reporting it as 0 to protect their miners.

This raises the question of how reliable the rest of the stats are!

[Quickseller]

If you have a specific reason to doubt the information, I would encourage you to speak up, but I don’t think it is reasonable to make the assumption it is wrong.

I'm challenging the validity of the data they use because logically it makes no sense. For starters in a country with 1.4 billion people, there is bound to be a lot of solo miners. Additionally people can still mine bitcoin in Hong Kong (part of China). So when the data suggests 0 hashrate from China, it can not be right as it has to be at least something there.

There is also another possibility that the pools are hiding their China stats and reporting it as 0 to protect their miners.

This raises the question of how reliable the rest of the stats are!

Electricity in Hong Kong costs about $0.15 per KWH, which is very expensive by bitcoin mining standards. As such, I don’t think there were ever many miners in HK.

I also don’t think there are many solo miners that are individuals out there anymore. In order to mine one block per day, you need approximately 1EH of hashrate (assuming no variance), which is about what the output of 9,000 Antminer S19 Pro. Reduce the output to one block per 14 days and only ~640 S19 Pros are needed. Reduce block output to once every 4 months, and you need 75 S19 Pros.

75 S19’s would consume about 240k KWH per hour. China is dealing with blackouts now— they are going to notice it someone is using that much electricity.

It is possible there are miners in China who have two or three miners in their basement that connects to pools via a VPN. I don’t think there are many of these people as the Chinese government doesn’t screw around, and it also extensively surveils its citizens.

The data used is sufficient to be 99% certain that reported percentages are within 6% of the actual number.

[Nathrixxx]

As how I've given it a closer look on China's way of control system, they totally go against any innovations or inventions not initiated by them, 99.9% of their economy produce and services offered from generated within their circle, infact dey have their own Google and other ip address does not work in china, never forgetting learning Chinese is also a prerequisite for anyone there.

China has its own digital Yuan and it will be difficult for them to allow any form of currency other than thier own to outrun theirs, and they have even given a verdict to eradicate all mining rigs before December end this year. They want no elements of trace to all crypto activities.

[pooya87]

Electricity in Hong Kong costs about $0.15 per KWH, which is very expensive by bitcoin mining standards. As such, I don’t think there were ever many miners in HK.

That wasn't the point.
Even if there is a small number of miners in HK that mine with electricity cost lower than the average price (which is the $0.15 you found) or miners from other parts of China, the validity of the data provided by the study quoted here is seriously questioned.
The error is definitely more than 1%-6% too.

I also don’t think there are many solo miners that are individuals out there anymore. In order to mine one block per day,
China is dealing with blackouts now— they are going to notice it someone is using that much electricity.

You don't need to mine 1 block per day, you get a profit equal to how much you invest. A single ASIC is enough for a "home" miner.
You'd be surprised how many people are using a ton of electricity and have nothing to do with bitcoin and bitcoin mining. For example a couple of months ago where I live there was a big news about a celebrity's electric bill that his usage had surpassed 10k KWH. Based on your numbers that is 3-4 ASICs. There are those who waste a lot more than that.
Power companies have always been complaining about these excessive users even before bitcoin was invented. In other words there is nothing to notice about a home miner.

[buwaytress]

Interesting data, but yeah, not sure how useful it all can be end of the day. Thanks, nonetheless.

What's still more interesting for me to know now is how much of that hashrate has actually changed hands. Are the miners owning them the same people (I think they are)? Is the distribution of ownership more diverse? And I don't mean more distributed among more subsidiaries and shell companies that eventually all end up having the same beneficiary.

In fact, if the forced hashrate migration actually ended up being better (cheaper), could the concentration of hashrate ownership actually increased?

[Bitstar_coin]

China hashrate dropping from 41% to 0% in one month(June-July 2021) seems suspicious to me.
I wonder what will happen to the Chinese companies that produce mining hardware,like Bitmain?
Will they keep producing mining hardware and export it outside China?
The concerns about the mining hashrate being concentrated in one country were false.Bitcoin was OK,when the vast majority of the mining was located in China.China never had any control over Bitcoin.
Now,Bitcoin is still doing fine,with the hashrate being re-distributed among several countries.

Either that or migrating to settle in a crypto friendly country with fair energy or face the possibility of folding up, they can always export their production to other countries except the government has a problem with that too,
And speaking of China in control,  I mean this ban actually shows a clear picture of what is really happening, despite the China hashrate at 0%, everything seem to be okey with btc, I guess it was a blessing in disguise for the vast majority who have the believe that china was in control, now that fear is out.

[Quickseller]

I also don’t think there are many solo miners that are individuals out there anymore. In order to mine one block per day,
China is dealing with blackouts now— they are going to notice it someone is using that much electricity.

You don't need to mine 1 block per day, you get a profit equal to how much you invest. A single ASIC is enough for a "home" miner.

It is ridiculous to expect to capture every single household that is mining with a single ASIC miner. Someone running a single ASIC miner is expected for all intents and purposes to never find a block. Should the data in the OP also capture the people who are mining by hand?

Those who are solo mining with a small number of ASICs are going to be well within the margin of error I previously explained.

You'd be surprised how many people are using a ton of electricity and have nothing to do with bitcoin and bitcoin mining. For example a couple of months ago where I live there was a big news about a celebrity's electric bill that his usage had surpassed 10k KWH. Based on your numbers that is 3-4 ASICs. There are those who waste a lot more than that.
Power companies have always been complaining about these excessive users even before bitcoin was invented. In other words there is nothing to notice about a home miner.

There is no reason why an electric company would complain about heavy electric users as long as they are getting paid.

In China, that is experiencing electricity shortages, and collects extensive data on its people, would be likely to look into why a household is using 10k KwH a month. My guess is someone using 10k KwH per month who is not mining is probably keeping their homes at a ridiculous temperature and or keeping their windows open while running the heat/air conditioning.   

[pooya87]

It is ridiculous to expect to capture every single household that is mining with a single ASIC miner. Someone running a single ASIC miner is expected for all intents and purposes to never find a block. Should the data in the OP also capture the people who are mining by hand?

Those who are solo mining with a small number of ASICs are going to be well within the margin of error I previously explained.

I feel like you are being silly on purpose. I never claimed they would find a block ever, I also tried to avoid using the term "solo miner" to avoid that confusion. Just like a farm with lots of ASICs a "home miner" with one or two ASICs would also connect to a pool and share the work and receive a portion of the reward based on their contribution.

There is no reason why an electric company would complain about heavy electric users as long as they are getting paid.

There is. The usage is always increasing and there is always a shortage of electricity. We don't notice it 99% of the times because the production is keeping up with the ever increasing demand. The complain is about wasting electricity and the pressure that puts on the grid not to mention the environmental damage. Not everything is about "getting paid".

[Rufsilf]

If a ban on mining can effectively reduce hashrate of a country to zero, then this is an argument against the statement that Bitcoin can't be shut down by government. If all those top countries decided to ban Bitcoin, where would the miners move? To countries with a fraction of electricity producing capabilities? That would mean Bitcoin's network would take a large hashrate hit, which means reduced security. So while Bitcoin can't be literally shut down, it can be very seriously harmed by governments, if they decided to act against it together.

Does this will affect the price if really happen ? if most countries are banning bitcoin and those countries are still available to mine are the country with high electricity bills. That means it's harder to got more bitcoin and ofcourse the price will be so much higher because the supply will be stuck and the demand keep increasing. I'd love to see that happen actually 

Banning and restricting any use of not just bitcoin but all crypto related transactions and mining in some countries like China really do some bad effects on the value but for a short-term only. Even if China belongs to a superpower country, still there are lot of big countries like USA, Russia and some parts of Europe who let their citizens participate in any crypto related transactions which gave a big positive impact on the market.

Higher electricty bills may gave the miners a hard time to mine, which would result to a high density of demand than the supply given. However, there are many options available today to lower the electricity fee without lowering the consumption. Because of these options, the supply and demand can be balanced.

[Wind_FURY]

Nothing like China can take over bitcoin or bitcoin network again, it appeared to novices before that China can be in control of bitcoin, but bitcoin hashrate increased back as many miners left China into another country to mine bitcoin while some mining pools especially in United State increased their mining hashrate.

What this just revealed is that if a country do not support bitcoin, some other countries are supporting it, if mining bitcoin is not allowed in a country or banned, other countries will see it as an opportunity to encourage mining and take advantage of the opportunity.

I will wish many other countries to encourage mining so that USA will not be the new China so that the hashes generation is not congested in a single country.

Bitcoin hashing power does NOT represent who/which country “controls ” Bitcoin. Everyone shouldn’t forget that Proof of Work is more a Sybil Attack prevention mechanism than a mechanism for consensus. BIP-148 proved it, although there will always be the deniers.

[Obito]

I didn't expect the sudden drop in hashrate just because China banned bitcoin mining, I thought that there will be stragglers that will try to do it business as usual but no, they did drop it the moment China said so, goes to show that bitcoin mining in China is owned by the government themselves. Seems that US will get the benefit from all of this and at the same time the community.