Selling items for 0.0004 Bitcoin.

[Jet Cash]

I want to list a number of items for sale at a fixed price of 0.0004 Bitcoin. Do you think that in view of the current high price of Bitcoin, it is worth doing this over the regular blockchain, or should I open a lightning account? The reference to the Bitcoin price is of course related to transaction fees, rather than the value of Bitcoin itself. Confirmation speed is not important, it doesn't matter if it takes a day or so to confirm.

Another consideration is the size of the transaction. Will it limit sales to people who already own Bitcoin, or will buyers be prepared to purchase such a small amount?

[1715026071]

1715026071

[1715026071]

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[Lucius]

We are currently talking about a value of about $25, and if we take into account that you do not care about the time of confirmation of the transaction - then the fee for a standard transaction (1 input/2 outputs) would be less than $0.5, even if it is a transaction sent from a Legacy address.

The second part of the question is a bit more complicated though, because if someone really had to buy Bitcoin to make this purchase, we have to consider the fees that a potential buyer will have to send a fiat to crypto-exchange, and then send BTC from exchange to you (or in his wallet, then to you).

Depending on the exchanges, the withdrawal fee is around 50 000 sat on Binance, and I believe it is not much different from other exchanges. In other words, someone who does not have Bitcoin would have to pay at least the same as the price of your service/product to buy Bitcoin.

[BlackHatCoiner]

You probably want to change the title of this thread as you've written 0.004 which is a decent amount to broadcast.

Do you think that in view of the current high price of Bitcoin, it is worth doing this over the regular blockchain, or should I open a lightning account?

I think that you should do this lightning-ly instead. Yeah, the transaction fees aren't that many, but it depends on the total items you have. For instance, if you just have 10-20 items for sale, then it isn't going to make a significant difference, but if you have more than a hundred, then open a lightning channel and scale it.

From a customer's point of view, you should allow lightning payments whether you have a hundred or just one of these items.

[romero121]

Small Suggestion : Along with bitcoin adding some low transaction fee coins like tron will benefit the buyers. When the buying is possible through Bitcoin, to buy Bitcoin there'll be small commission. If the same is done in terms of tron, then the buyer gets profit while making further transaction. If it is done through bitcoin, buyer will be charged with atleast twice the transaction costs of buying with tron.

[pawanjain]

The title says 0.004 BTC whereas the post says 0.0004 BTC so which one of them is the correct one ?

Assuming that the amount is 0.0004 BTC I guess it would be inconvenient for a new buyer to purchase BTC and then transfer it to you because of the fees.
Existing bitcoin users though can use their wallets and set a low fees for transaction since you mentioned you don't mind waiting.
You can setup a LN but even that would benefit more the existing users only and new comers would still feel uncomfortable.
Another option would be that you accept cheaper altcoins and then convert it to bitcoin as per your need.

[Jet Cash]

You probably want to change the title of this thread as you've written 0.004 which is a decent amount to broadcast.

Whoops! Thanks for pointing that out - I've made the change.

[Jet Cash]

Small Suggestion : Along with bitcoin adding some low transaction fee coins like tron will benefit the buyers. When the buying is possible through Bitcoin, to buy Bitcoin there'll be small commission. If the same is done in terms of tron, then the buyer gets profit while making further transaction. If it is done through bitcoin, buyer will be charged with atleast twice the transaction costs of buying with tron.

A useful suggestion, but at the moment I'm looking at increasing my Bitcoin holdings. I do plan on exploring some of the newer coins, andI make save some of those. The most useful would ve ones where customers could earn coins through content production or services, and use their earned coins to buy items. I hoped to do this with Steem, but I ended up thinking of that as a ponzi, maybe I should revisit the site if it is still popular.

[romero121]

Small Suggestion : Along with bitcoin adding some low transaction fee coins like tron will benefit the buyers. When the buying is possible through Bitcoin, to buy Bitcoin there'll be small commission. If the same is done in terms of tron, then the buyer gets profit while making further transaction. If it is done through bitcoin, buyer will be charged with atleast twice the transaction costs of buying with tron.

A useful suggestion, but at the moment I'm looking at increasing my Bitcoin holdings. I do plan on exploring some of the newer coins, andI make save some of those. The most useful would ve ones where customers could earn coins through content production or services, and use their earned coins to buy items. I hoped to do this with Steem, but I ended up thinking of that as a ponzi, maybe I should revisit the site if it is still popular.

Myself suggested tron, because going through its growth chart it hasn't shown big signs of growth for a long time. Most of the coins that are with similar marketcap have bounced high during the previous and the ongoing bull market. Maybe the accumulation of tron could get good return at the earliest. This is just an assumptional prediction comparing the growth of tron with other similar coins.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Depending on the exchanges, the withdrawal fee is around 50 000 sat on Binance, and I believe it is not much different from other exchanges. In other words, someone who does not have Bitcoin would have to pay at least the same as the price of your service/product to buy Bitcoin.

You can check the withdrawal fee in Bitcoin with Withdrawalfees.com
Binance, Binance US charge the most expensive withdrawal fee.

Is it because they are top exchanges and have best security and services? Binance was hacked in the past so their security was not too good.

There are a little exchanges that charge lower fee than Binance but you are correct that most of exchanges charge 0.0005 BTC for every withdrawal.

[LoyceV]

It's still possible to move 40,000 sat on-chain. Last time I paid 111 sat in fee.
If you receive those amounts, don't forget to consolidate them before fees go up.

Will it limit sales to people who already own Bitcoin, or will buyers be prepared to purchase such a small amount?

I think it's pretty obvious you'll limit sales to Bitcoin owners if you only accept Bitcoin. I wouldn't buy a certain coin just because a one-time seller asks for it, I'd just find another seller.
Accepting LN would work, but has the same problem: only people who use it already will be able to buy from you.

You can check the withdrawal fee in Bitcoin with Withdrawalfees.com
Binance, Binance US charge the most expensive withdrawal fee.

Nice site, I sometimes use the #1 to convert an altcoin from a large exchange and get it back into Bitcoin (or LN directly). That route saves a lot of fees and makes much smaller withdrawals worthwhile.

[Imran232]

..........

There are lots of experts who can suggest you better and you are a legendary member too. You also know better than me. So, I believe you can go with whatever suits you best.But if I choose something like that, then honestly speaking, if the price is fixed at like 0.0004btc or $25, then I definitely don't feel comfortable with bitcoin. Well, if the price is variable, then I might go with it. However, if the price is 0.0004, I will choose the lowest commission-charging coin with which to accept payment and then buy bitcoin with it.Because my main motive is to grab BTC, but I can do it by myself with other coins. In that case, I have to pay the lowest fees. It's my honest thought you might like it or not. I know you can choose what you feel is best for you. Thank you.

[Jet Cash]

Some of the items are domain names, so if someone wants one, then he has to buy it from me.

[DaveF]

I guess the other question is are you or your customer in a rush. As of now and for the last few weeks the mempool is clearing on a regular basis and 1 sat/b is regularly possible. So, if you don't mind waiting till it clears and they don't mind waiting a few hours or overnight to get it then it's fine.
I try to spend my coins / consolidate my inputs over the weekend when I know 1 sat/b is common.

The other option is if a bunch of BTC going to you gets stuck waiting for the fees to drop you just do 1 big CPFP and be done.

-Dave

[DarkDays]

I want to list a number of items for sale at a fixed price of 0.0004 Bitcoin. Do you think that in view of the current high price of Bitcoin, it is worth doing this over the regular blockchain, or should I open a lightning account? The reference to the Bitcoin price is of course related to transaction fees, rather than the value of Bitcoin itself. Confirmation speed is not important, it doesn't matter if it takes a day or so to confirm.

Another consideration is the size of the transaction. Will it limit sales to people who already own Bitcoin, or will buyers be prepared to purchase such a small amount?

For such a small value of under 50$ it seems strictly unnecessary to go via this route. For sure you're limiting your customers because those who manipulate BTC probably won't bother for such a small amount while those who would consider buying what you're selling are mainly not using BTC. So you're limiting your market unnecessarily. Why not go through the normal way, nothing wrong with ebay right?

[crwth]

I think it wouldn't be much of a big deal because Bitcoin is already accessible by a majority of people and they probably know someone or know a way how they can obtain one. Maybe in this little way, a lot more people can get into they space because of items for sale and stuff.

[pooya87]

Small Suggestion : Along with bitcoin adding some low transaction fee coins like tron will benefit the buyers. When the buying is possible through Bitcoin, to buy Bitcoin there'll be small commission. If the same is done in terms of tron, then the buyer gets profit while making further transaction. If it is done through bitcoin, buyer will be charged with atleast twice the transaction costs of buying with tron.

A simple P2WPKH transaction with 1 input and 2 outputs is less than 180 bytes which makes the fees 0.00000180BTC. 10 cents is not really considered "high fee".

The other problem with altcoins instead of bitcoin is that they are always dumping against bitcoin. For example Tron had an initial pump against bitcoin like any other altcoins when it was created and then the second half of its life it has been dumping against bitcoin. For example in the past 2 months it has lost about 40% of its value against bitcoin. So your 40000 satoshi 2 months ago would be worth 24000 satoshi today.

[Lucius]

A useful suggestion, but at the moment I'm looking at increasing my Bitcoin holdings. I do plan on exploring some of the newer coins, andI make save some of those.

I would not listen to anyone who advises you altcoins as an alternative, because the fees for on-chain transactions when it comes to Bitcoin have been quite low for a long time, even when it comes to microtransactions. Since you are focused on Bitcoin, any transaction in some altcoin would mean that you should exchange/sell it for BTC - which only means additional costs for you as a seller.

A simple P2WPKH transaction with 1 input and 2 outputs is less than 180 bytes which makes the fees 0.00000180BTC. 10 cents is not really considered "high fee".

Say it a hundred times every day and maybe some will understand, although most still do not even try to understand what the fees depend on and how to set it correctly. Someone who makes a BTC withdraw from an exchange and pays about $50 for it, continues to live in the belief that the fees for BTC transactions are outrageously expensive - do not realize that the smallest part of that price is the cost of the transaction, and the rest is what the exchange charges for the service.

[kryptqnick]

I think it'll probably be limited to those who own Bitcoin because it's not a big amount and not worth the fuss of buying to then sell for a specific item. But it's not a big deal because lots of people own Bitcoin, and those who don't aren't likely to purchase it in order to pay for something with it anyway. As for the fees, as long as it's an online purchase, and it's fine if a transaction takes up to 24 hours, I think it's okay to use on-chain transactions. The fees are very volatile, and every so often they won't be big, even for a fast transaction.

[LoyceV]

Someone who makes a BTC withdraw from an exchange and pays about $50 for it, continues to live in the belief that the fees for BTC transactions are outrageously expensive - do not realize that the smallest part of that price is the cost of the transaction, and the rest is what the exchange charges for the service.

That's probably why there are several times more "Bitcoin users" than funded addresses: many people never withdraw from an exchange. I get quite a few emails from proxybanned users who say they wouldn't mind paying something like 0.00000176 Bitcoin, but don't want to pay the very high withdrawal fee.
On the other hand, if 10 times more people would actually withdraw from exchanges, on-chain fees wouldn't be low anymore because blocks would be full.

[dkbit98]

I want to list a number of items for sale at a fixed price of 0.0004 Bitcoin. Do you think that in view of the current high price of Bitcoin, it is worth doing this over the regular blockchain, or should I open a lightning account?

Why don't you use both regular Bitcoin and Lightning Network and provide more choice for people?
Transaction fees in previous period was very low and it was easy to use 1 sat/vB paying minimal fees, but we can't expect to have that always.
Lightning Network could be a good alternative when mempool is full, but I think that LN can still be complicated for some people unless they use some custodial wallets.