Proposal: Rename the "Press" board to "Spammer of the Month" board

[DooMAD]

The worst thing is we could easily have a consensus on the problem, but there seems to be no determination from the administration to fix it.

It might be because we don't have consensus on the solution.  Sounds as though everyone recognises there is a problem, but we have many different suggestions about how to resolve it.  Some people think more rules are needed, others think more users need to be banned, some say lock the board completely, while others still think more moderators will help.  Even I'm starting to wonder what would be the most effective fix.

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[suchmoon]

It might be because we don't have consensus on the solution.  Sounds as though everyone recognises there is a problem, but we have many different suggestions about how to resolve it.  Some people think more rules are needed, others think more users need to be banned, some say lock the board completely, while others still think more moderators will help.  Even I'm starting to wonder what would be the most effective fix.

Some of those options are offered as alternatives only because nothing is being done, e.g. lock the board if no one's gonna fix it, or clarify the rules if that's what's stopping mods from cleaning it up. I don't think there is much disagreement that the shitty copypasta needs to be removed, and deleting those posts and banning repeat offenders is the only real solution if we want the board to mean something.

[OgNasty]

The worst thing is we could easily have a consensus on the problem, but there seems to be no determination from the administration to fix it.

It might be because we don't have consensus on the solution.  Sounds as though everyone recognises there is a problem, but we have many different suggestions about how to resolve it.  Some people think more rules are needed, others think more users need to be banned, some say lock the board completely, while others still think more moderators will help.  Even I'm starting to wonder what would be the most effective fix.

Hear me out.  This might sound totally crazy at first, possibly even insane...  BUT...  I have a solution.  We could all just go on living normally and not let too many news articles being posted in the news section ruin our lives.

I know I'm nuts, but it's worth a try.  If Phoebe can do it...

https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0d1691cf-ac7a-4edb-8d32-2923f091667c

[o_e_l_e_o]

Keeping things clean doesn't mean people can't express their oppinions, they simply should actually have an oppinion instead of regurgitating a quote or a completely empty post consisting on a few sentences that are only meant to reach the signature quota.

QFT. This is not a difficult distinction to make. I don't understand why we continue to let spammers rules the forum.

-snip-

Agree with suchmoon. Enforce the rules/moderate it properly/ban the spammers are essentially the same thing. If we aren't going to do that (which it seems we aren't) then just close the board.

We could all just go on living normally and not let too many news articles being posted in the news section ruin our lives.

And surrender yet another board over to the spammers. Soon we'll be down to just Dev, Mining, and Tech as being the only actually usable boards on the forum.

[Pmalek]

Perhaps the standards are softening more and more because the forum has less and less active users and each is starting to be important from the perspective of the administration...

That's my thinking as well and I believe I said something similar either in this thread or somewhere else.

Perhaps the simplest thing would be to disable signatures in the Press board

I hope that doesn't happen. I would much rather not see the spam in the Press board by not visiting it, than seeing it in the subs dedicated to proper and technical discussions. Let's try and contain it there and report those who break the rules. If the admins don't want to do anything about it, we will know that the issue isn't as important to them as it is to some members.   

Our main spammer in that board would probably give up right away if that happened.

Or he switches to a different board and continues in the same way, possibly making simple alterations. 

Where can I find the stats on the number of active users? The stats on https://ninjastic.space regarding the number of posts per month show that we are significantly higher than we were a year ago.

I guess it depends on the sub. I also feel like there is less discussion in some of the subs I frequent. I remember that in the Hardware wallet child board it was possible to see 5-10 posts each time I came online. Now, there are days where it seems that we have just 1 or 2. 

[DooMAD]

Hear me out.  This might sound totally crazy at first, possibly even insane...  BUT...  I have a solution.  We could all just go on living normally and not let too many news articles being posted in the news section ruin our lives.

I know I'm nuts, but it's worth a try.  If Phoebe can do it...

Maybe "Allow the bad posters to continue doing bad things" is your default response, but some of us would prefer it if the forum was slightly nicer than a cesspit.

Honestly, I don't get it.  Are you being contrary for the sake of it?  Or do you have a vested interest in opposing improvements?  I want to read topics that promote healthy discussion.  If someone approached you in person, face to face, and quoted an article verbatim and then said nothing else, would you engage them in conversation?  Or would you assume they had suffered some form of brain damage and conclude they need to stop wasting peoples' time?

It's a forum, not RSS.

[OgNasty]

Maybe "Allow the bad posters to continue doing bad things" is your default response, but some of us would prefer it if the forum was slightly nicer than a cesspit.

I don't believe that for a second.  Many of the people complaining about news articles being posted are the same idiots who support Vod's spreading of lies, abuse of the trust system, and ultimately trying to extort me for $50,000,000.  If people want to stop people from doing bad things, you can start with cleaning up the trust network which has been overtaken by forum users who don't even trade or interact with others on the blockchain at all but finagled their way in by teaming up as a method of bullying others.  I personally think there is value in lots of news articles being placed there in a uniform format to document Bitcoin's media coverage over the years.  Complaining about it doesn't have value, although we're all getting paid to spam here so enjoy the hypocrite show.  Until I see some of the blowhards in here posting legitimate news articles on a regular basis in a way they deem appropriate, then I think everyone should give up the Karen act and quit criticizing those who do put forth an honest effort.

[GazetaBitcoin]

CoinIdol News, JessicaVL, CryptoBry, acquafredda, Vladdirescu87, the list is endless. Somehow, CoinIdol News still isn't banned yet.

Honestly, I've got tired of reporting the above mentioned... As o_e_l_e_o said, I observed it's useless... At some point I remember that even CoinIdol News' boss got involved in here, asking why her bot's posts are deleted (facepalm).

Having a "press" website myself, I could moderate the board (not for free though - don't have time for most nonprofit endeavors these days) since I can tell if a page (source) is up to journalistic standards or not.

I'll make a counter offer² (don't take it personal, NotATether ): I am willing myself to moderate that board for free. It causes too much pain.

If anyone in charge is interested, I would do it under some conditions / guidelines:
- I would not allow topics simply quoting a URL without trying to open any real discussion about the subject
- I would do, in my free time, a thorough check through all topics (this may take months or even years) and delete the junk
- I would suggest to allow posting only the users with a specific rank (let's say Full Members?)
- I would suggest to remove signatures from that board
- I'd be open to suggestions from other users signaling a shitty topic¹⁾
- I'd try to enforce these guidelines:

These general guidelines should help keep the board usable:

• Create a new thread for each new link
• Begin each thread with article date, YYYY-MM-DD format.
• Thread title should usefully summarize the link.  julz has suggested DATE-SITE-HEADLINE format, but use your best judgement.
• Duplicate links, off-topic, and meta discussions may be moderated (locked or whatever the mods prefer)
• Post a link to the NEW articles thread.

- I'd try to enforce this description: "Notable press hits"; obviously, this would mean the allowed articles will be affected by my subjectivity
- I'd do all these in the limits of my free time.

¹⁾ I am not asking for a rank of Moderator by doing this, only for a powerful "Delete" button within the respective section. I am not sure how this will work out, considering that my free time is currently a rara avis since my baby was born (  ) but I think it'll be something better than nothing. With all due respect to jgarzik, considering his absence since more than 1 year, it's hard to keep that board clean without a constant monitoring. Not that it matters too much on this subject, but I just observed that he has a negative feedback from gmaxwell.

²⁾ In case many users would object to this proposal, I will step back and I will apologize.

To sum-up, if theymos reads this, I am willing to do a free service, on my free time, in order to help the forum. I am not making this post for merits; I am merely trying to give a hand of help on a matter which caused me enough irritation as well until now and I am sure it's a big pain for many others...

If my proposal is accepted, I'd gladly try to help. If it's not accepted -- at least I tried. If it's accepted but I will see myself that I am unable to perform the duty (due to various reasons but, most likely, due to lack of time; nevertheless, I may find myself incompetent for the respective job; or, other issues may appear, hindering me in moderating Press board) then I will inform that I have to cease doing it due to the respective reason...

[Lucius]

Honestly, I've got tired of reporting the above mentioned... As o_e_l_e_o said, I observed it's useless...

Not in vain as most claim, it is enough to look at the Press board and see that the spammer of the month received an award from the mods - although it is a pity that not all threads are deleted, the mods still took into account that this would delete a lot of posts from users that post in that threads. I did my part - a waste of time? I can survive without those few minutes I spent there.

[LeGaulois]

It doesn't solve the problem because another user will come again in a few days to do the same thing. And again the topics will have to be reported and so on... It will never end and that's exactly what makes us tired. After reporting several posts from the same users, another level of moderation should be done (a temporary ban of 2-3 days or something similar I don't know).
How many reports did it take until we got rid of CoinIdiot News?

Maybe after 5 reports a moderator could send to the person a PM asking to improve his posts and after 10 reports other sanctions, etc...
By the way, go to see who's back there, it exactly shows my point: no end...

I understand it can be difficult to determine if the post should be deleted or not because the rules are not clear and it is subjective depending on the person's point of view.
But in fact, if there were more clear and strict guidelines, there wouldn't even be a need to debate, it becomes objective.

I don't know who suggested disabling the signature space in the board but I now start to think it could be the best thing to do

[o_e_l_e_o]

Let's try and contain it there and report those who break the rules.

If the role of the Press board is now "contain the spammers", then all the more reason to rename it as I originally suggested.

quit criticizing those who do put forth an honest effort.

You have an exceptionally low bar for what constitutes "honest effort" if you are quite happy to include in that definition repeatedly copy and pasting someone else's work without a single original thought or comment.

-snip-

Locking these threads doesn't make the Press board any more readable though, and you still have to search through all this trash to find meaningful threads. And it also does nothing to disincentivize the spammer in question, since he still gets paid for spamming for CoinTelegraph. And without any actual enforcement and bans from higher up, then you will eventually get bored of reporting the same user literally hundreds of times, as has happened to plenty of other people posting in this thread. I don't mean to discourage you, but this is not a long term solution.


I will be locking this thread in a couple of days. With still no response at all from theymos in this thread or via PM, it is clear nothing is going to change. There is no point wasting our time discussing changes which will never happen.

[Lucius]

Locking these threads doesn't make the Press board any more readable though, and you still have to search through all this trash to find meaningful threads.

Some threads have been deleted, others have not, it is the decision of the moderator who handles the reports. At this point, it was obviously not possible to achieve better than this.

And it also does nothing to disincentivize the spammer in question, since he still gets paid for spamming for CoinTelegraph. And without any actual enforcement and bans from higher up, then you will eventually get bored of reporting the same user literally hundreds of times, as has happened to plenty of other people posting in this thread. I don't mean to discourage you, but this is not a long term solution.

As far as I can see the user in question is no longer active on the Press board, last thread was posted 7 days ago - so I would not agree that he will continue with what he did before. This is not a long-term solution, but it sends a message to anyone who tries something similar that it will not pay off.

[DooMAD]

Many of the people complaining about news articles being posted are the same idiots who support Vod's spreading of lies, abuse of the trust system, and ultimately trying to extort me for $50,000,000.

Oh, right.  I forgot you view every topic through the lens of your ongoing feud with someone who no longer posts here to carry on the dispute.  Maybe get over it and stop allowing it to cloud your judgement on subjects which have nothing to do with that?

I think everyone should give up the Karen act and quit criticizing those who do put forth an honest effort.

Clearly you and I have very different perspectives around what constitutes "effort".  The entire point of this discussion is to define copypasta as "low-effort".  None of your biases against other forum users are valid arguments to challenge that.  If you have any relevant arguments to support the notion that copypasta somehow involves effort, feel free to present them.  Otherwise, please find another topic in which to whine about Vod.

[OgNasty]

Many of the people complaining about news articles being posted are the same idiots who support Vod's spreading of lies, abuse of the trust system, and ultimately trying to extort me for $50,000,000.

Oh, right.  I forgot you view every topic through the lens of your ongoing feud with someone who no longer posts here to carry on the dispute.  Maybe get over it and stop allowing it to cloud your judgement on subjects which have nothing to do with that?

I think everyone should give up the Karen act and quit criticizing those who do put forth an honest effort.

Clearly you and I have very different perspectives around what constitutes "effort".  The entire point of this discussion is to define copypasta as "low-effort".  None of your biases against other forum users are valid arguments to challenge that.  If you have any relevant arguments to support the notion that copypasta somehow involves effort, feel free to present them.  Otherwise, please find another topic in which to whine about Vod.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.  I get that people don't like it when their own bully act is turned around on them.  Don't act like you don't appreciate the opportunity to respond to earn your little $1 for your spam though, which I might add has no value whatsoever unlike the news articles you are complaining about...  

We must have different views on a lot of things.  For example, I think you are the signature spammer who is making valueless posts, not the people documenting articles in a specific format so those who search topics years from now can easily gather information about them.  As for whining about Vod, I'm actually complaining about the hypocrisy of your spammer crew, not Vod's lunatic behavior that has been endorsed by them.  

[Pmalek]

If the role of the Press board is now "contain the spammers", then all the more reason to rename it as I originally suggested.

Containing it in the Press board might have not been the best use of words. But the fact is that there is spam in that board. To fight that spam, the admins could make some drastic changes like disabling signatures. If that was to be done, the virus would just spread elsewhere and infect other parts of the forum and then we would have to have a discussion on how to fight the spammers in boards X and Y.

I am sorry, but I think that certain boards are beyond saving. At least with all the freedoms we are given here. Choosing to be a spamming or scamming member is allowed, even though spamming is against the rules. What constitutes spam remains debatable. It seems that the Press board isn't something the admins find alarming unfortunately.   

[DooMAD]

people documenting articles in a specific format so those who search topics years from now can easily gather information about them.  

I would accept that as a valid argument *IF* the articles weren't mostly crypto-blog sites.  Who in their right mind wants an archive of the dross those sites churn out?  I can see value in something that serves to document actual media coverage, tracking progress of how Bitcoin is perceived in the wider world, but also feel it would be better still if those topics also served a function of generating stimulating conversations.  The only reason we don't have that is because the people posting them are seemingly too preoccupied with searching for the next trash-blog to copy that they can't find time to provide their own insights on the subject (assuming they even have any). 

Aside from the part where you clearly don't like us very much, what is your justification for opposing the suggestion that posters add their own commentary to their quoted articles? 

Surely if someone cares enough to share something newsworthy, then they must have some sort of view regarding it which can be expressed in words?  If they don't, then I tend to assume they don't care about the content of the article.  In which case, they must be posting it for another reason.

Don't act like you don't appreciate the opportunity to respond to earn your little $1 for your spam though, which I might add has no value whatsoever unlike the news articles you are complaining about... 

We must have different views on a lot of things.  For example, I think you are the signature spammer who is making valueless posts

If all I cared about was getting paid, I'd just do what the people I'm complaining about are doing.  It's not exactly difficult.  This is something I care about.  I'm fairly sure I put more effort into putting forth my arguments here than these Press spammers do in pressing the 'Post' button without a single thought entering their heads.  I wouldn't say your posts here are without value, but I do believe them to be seriously misguided and counter-productive to the goal of making a better Press board.

[actmyname]

Many of the people complaining about news articles being posted are the same idiots who support Vod's spreading of lies, abuse of the trust system, and ultimately trying to extort me for $50,000,000.

Oh, right.  I forgot you view every topic through the lens of your ongoing feud with someone who no longer posts here to carry on the dispute.  Maybe get over it and stop allowing it to cloud your judgement on subjects which have nothing to do with that?

I think everyone should give up the Karen act and quit criticizing those who do put forth an honest effort.

Clearly you and I have very different perspectives around what constitutes "effort".  The entire point of this discussion is to define copypasta as "low-effort".  None of your biases against other forum users are valid arguments to challenge that.  If you have any relevant arguments to support the notion that copypasta somehow involves effort, feel free to present them.  Otherwise, please find another topic in which to whine about Vod.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.  I get that people don't like it when their own bully act is turned around on them.  Don't act like you don't appreciate the opportunity to respond to earn your little $1 for your spam though, which I might add has no value whatsoever unlike the news articles you are complaining about...  

We must have different views on a lot of things.  For example, I think you are the signature spammer who is making valueless posts, not the people documenting articles in a specific format so those who search topics years from now can easily gather information about them.  As for whining about Vod, I'm actually complaining about the hypocrisy of your spammer crew, not Vod's lunatic behavior that has been endorsed by them.  

"I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.  I get that people don't like it when their own bully act is turned around on them.  Don't act like you don't appreciate the opportunity to respond to earn your little $1 for your spam though"

"We must have different views on a lot of things.  For example, I think you are the signature spammer who is making valueless posts, not the people documenting articles in a specific format so those who search topics years from now can easily gather information about them."

"As for whining about Vod, I'm actually complaining about the hypocrisy of you"

Quoted by OgNasty of the Bitcointalk Forum in the topic above link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5370706.msg58622022#msg58622022



What is really interesting about this post is that I need to think of a couple more words to get it padded enough and I can earn my signature money.

_{Good enough for press, good enough for the forum.}