Can civilization revert to a barter system

[paxmao]

Civilization does sometimes revert to what you describe as barter, but only happens in certain very peculiar cases. Think of, for example, the prison system: cash is not allowed but cigarettes and other goods are. These are "fungible", scarce, represent value and are demanded, so there you go. Also in cases in which a currency goes into hyperinflation the currency becomes diamonds for large amounts, gold for lesser amounts and almost anything for daily expenses.

So all the civilizations as a whole would not normally revert to barter, but it can happen and does happen in bit of the world and certain situations.

[1715413605]

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[Darker45]

If we talk of the general civilization, I don't think it will ever go back to the barter system. That would be several steps backward in terms of progress as a society. But if we consider the wildest of possibilities, if ever an apocalyptic age indeed arrives, the barter system must be the most effective. It could naturally become the only means of trade.

But I'd like to point out that the barter system is still existing until now. Especially in rural areas and other geographically isolated villages, the barter system is still very much alive.

If a recession or crash is expected and high inflation occurs. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to begin some type of barter system platform. As an alternative in case other options go down.

Myanmar has recently had issues with banking and electronic financial services being shut down. On a side note, could it be worthwhile to have some infrastructure in place to support barter and trade in the event of a natural disaster or crisis which negatively affects electronic payment?

I agree.

During the height of the pandemic, the barter system somehow became a thing here in my city. Jobs were lost, businesses closed, movements were severely limited resulting to the lack of livelihood opportunities. In other words, cash became more precious, if not unavailable to many.

This was how the barter system became an option. In exchange of something that you need, you will offer something you don't need or need much which others are looking for. But this is not limited to goods. Services are also allowed.

The platform used was simply the popular free social media like Facebook. Although it might be better if there is really a platform solely intended for it, the advantage of the common social media platforms is that almost everybody is there.

[Wexnident]

Barter was never really removed imo? There are still trades or exchanges that happen as long as the two parties agree to the trade afaik. Of course, it's to the small minority though. Still, I don't think it should be implemented again in the first place, though it being an alternative due to some extreme circumstances is a possibility. I reckon people would still prefer to use the centralized system that we have now rather than a barter system. The barter system imo, has more problems on its own after all compared to what we have right now and it probably looks like a pain to do compared to simple transactions we have now a days.

[michellee]

I do not think they will use a barter system as we have good technology that supports the payment system to be better than before. I agree with @paxmao explanation that in some instances, such as jail, they can use a barter system as money is not available and can trigger chaos between them.

But in real life, the barter system is hard to use as people need to meet each other and then use the barter system. At the same time, we can use the technology to make a transaction and give easiness to us to send and receive the funds.

But it is interesting if that is applied in the blockchain and I wonder how it will look.

[el kaka22]

CBDC will not be the only method of payment that you are forced to use. They are creating it for an alternative to crypto basically, we still have fiat both in banknotes and also digitally in our bank accounts as well. So, you will still be able to pay cash or with credit card as usual without any change in that regard as far as I am aware. You could totally ignore CBDC if you want to and use the old method, or could go with crypto debit cards as well which are getting more and more famous. These days crypto debit cards have huge cashback rewards as well so you are saving up a lot on small stuff, like how netflix is getting 50% back and all that.

So, all in all I would say that barter will not be needed at all, it is a very old system and very rarely used in small sectors. I had something like that offered, a barter credit for half worth of my house while other half would be in cash, but I rejected it since I am not a business and can't buy anything with it, so it is out there but very rare.

[Reid]

When money was created it's difficult to go back to an old style anymore.
It's true that we have a lot of items now in the market from a new kind of shaver to everything that is plastic. But, it will be difficult to satisfy the other end if he have most of the items that we need.
China as an example had been producing a lot of different goods and it's like almost everything is "Made in China" nowadays, I doubt they will go back to a civilization of trades even if they have the upper hand.
There's the question of "What else can you offer us?".

[tiCeR]

Central banks have announced CBDCs (central bank issued digital currencies). Some have voiced concerns of CBDCs being tools of surveillance and control. If society experiences CBDCs and decides they do not like them, will it be possible to revert to a barter based system of trade?

A barter based system could be more susceptible to fraud and scams. Yet would allow for financial transaction outside of CBDC regulation. This could become a necessary step if some individuals and businesses are deplatformed by CBDC. Some businesses can only survive by paying workers under the table.

In practice a barter based system could function similar to ebay with an independent and reliable 3rd party form of escrow. (Blockchain based of course, we aren't complete savages and primitives  )

Could a barter system be a worthwhile form of trade past the year 2022. Perhaps the next big leap forward will be a retro move backward into the past.

The only system that is kind of similar to a classic barter system might be trades in NFTs. I don't see a chance for physical good vs physical good exchanges at scale. The issue with NFTs is that they would have to be acknowledged by government in order to also represent blockchain based legal rights against the underlying assets. Hence, it is pretty much impossible to circumvent CBDC regulation as private contracts can't rule out public law. Sure you could exchange minor assets, let's say a smartphone against a PC or something without using public infrastructure, and I believe such exchanges do even exist. But as soon as we are talking assets that require any form of registration, that's where we would be running into a deadlock.
Anyway, an interesting thought that is worth being explored further.

[qwertyup23]

Could a barter system be a worthwhile form of trade past the year 2022. Perhaps the next big leap forward will be a retro move backward into the past.

I would not count on its possibility given the complexity of barter in its application.

While on paper barter may seem harmless, there are tons of implications with knowing the value of 'barter' in the exchange of goods. Barter system can be difficult in ascertaining its value on the market given that there is no way of knowing the 'standard' prize of goods. In addition, it is also susceptible of scam where a person may trade something that he does not own (e.g. only a possessor of the thing and not the owner thereof).

This may give rise to legal complications that could easily be avoided if were the standard of exchange is fiat!

[ShowOff]

At my place, you can easily barter "saleable" used items for new ones for the same price. I don't think it's very primitive but it really is to this day. We can't forever make big cities a model in judging something because life doesn't just exist there and in the countryside we can still do it very easily. The barter system only requires trust between the two parties, either through escrow or directly. But as usual, here we can do barter without having to be afraid of the risk of scam because it is usually done with known people.

Bartering may no longer be suitable for modern financial system where everyone will be facilitated by digital financial innovation “centralized or decentralized”. But for underdeveloped countries, especially in rural areas, this system is still ongoing, both because of culture and because of other things.

[sana54210]

The only system that is kind of similar to a classic barter system might be trades in NFTs. I don't see a chance for physical good vs physical good exchanges at scale. The issue with NFTs is that they would have to be acknowledged by government in order to also represent blockchain based legal rights against the underlying assets. Hence, it is pretty much impossible to circumvent CBDC regulation as private contracts can't rule out public law. Sure you could exchange minor assets, let's say a smartphone against a PC or something without using public infrastructure, and I believe such exchanges do even exist. But as soon as we are talking assets that require any form of registration, that's where we would be running into a deadlock.
Anyway, an interesting thought that is worth being explored further.

The NFT barter system may work but it is going to be very hard to handle all the regulations related stuff. Like let's say a farmer could sell 1000 corns as an NFT, and the buyer could have that NFT and could sell that to someone else by splicing it, could create 100 corns for 10 NFT's instead and sell it to different people and then it could move wherever until it reaches latest destination and whoever wants to execute the physical change could do so just when it reaches the end.

It is a very difficult process, it requires insane amount of regulations and it will not happen because when did we really leaped that much forward in tech to help people when there are middle man who could earn a grand deal of amount who bribe the politicians to not regulate the markets. So, it is not going to happen, it "could" work in theory but in practice it is not going to happen.

[Mahanton]

Never!
This wont happen even on my dreams because government is already existed and we know on how fiat serves as the the monetary system which its impossible for us to revert back.We are now on an era where everything is accessible on the fastest  payment system as possible which in just common sense then its really
that not possible for us to go back into those old system.

[Kimonoe]

Never!
This wont happen even on my dreams because government is already existed and we know on how fiat serves as the the monetary system which its impossible for us to revert back.We are now on an era where everything is accessible on the fastest  payment system as possible which in just common sense then its really
that not possible for us to go back into those old system.

Broadly speaking, there will be no return to the barter system, but in reality until now there are still many who use the barter system, but basically everything is judged on the amount of fiat. For example, we often exchange cars, but one of them has to give extra money, because the selling value of one of the cars is higher

[xSkylarx]

Never!
This wont happen even on my dreams because government is already existed and we know on how fiat serves as the the monetary system which its impossible for us to revert back.We are now on an era where everything is accessible on the fastest  payment system as possible which in just common sense then its really
that not possible for us to go back into those old system.

Broadly speaking, there will be no return to the barter system, but in reality until now there are still many who use the barter system, but basically everything is judged on the amount of fiat. For example, we often exchange cars, but one of them has to give extra money, because the selling value of one of the cars is higher

Agreed, when a pandemic strikes, someone in our country devises a barter system with the goal of assisting people in need of food in exchange for something else. I understand that returning to the barter system will be difficult, but we can do it at the same time because the barter system is extremely beneficial to those who wants those items and cannot obtain them without money. As of right now, no one wants to be back in the barter stage because it is extremely difficult; money is everything at this time.

[tippytoes]

Never!
This wont happen even on my dreams because government is already existed and we know on how fiat serves as the the monetary system which its impossible for us to revert back.We are now on an era where everything is accessible on the fastest  payment system as possible which in just common sense then its really
that not possible for us to go back into those old system.

Broadly speaking, there will be no return to the barter system, but in reality until now there are still many who use the barter system, but basically everything is judged on the amount of fiat. For example, we often exchange cars, but one of them has to give extra money, because the selling value of one of the cars is higher

Agreed, when a pandemic strikes, someone in our country devises a barter system with the goal of assisting people in need of food in exchange for something else. I understand that returning to the barter system will be difficult, but we can do it at the same time because the barter system is extremely beneficial to those who wants those items and cannot obtain them without money. As of right now, no one wants to be back in the barter stage because it is extremely difficult; money is everything at this time.

The barter system continues to exist but most of the time, people want money in exchange of their items. You can find in some marketplaces about barter system, but I believe they usually end up selling it in exchange of fiat, because it is hard to find someone who has the item you want to exchange it with, and if the other party likes the item you are offering. This is why the barter system is something not sustainable in my opinion.

[savetheFORUM]

Central banks have announced CBDCs (central bank issued digital currencies). Some have voiced concerns of CBDCs being tools of surveillance and control. If society experiences CBDCs and decides they do not like them, will it be possible to revert to a barter based system of trade?

First of all, I think you are missing something, that the government is introducing the CBDC doesn’t mean that we are going to stop making use of the fiat currency that’s currently being used now. It doesn’t stop anything, the current fiat and paper money will still be used, and CBDC will just be another one that kind of complements it. So if anyone should say that they don’t like the CBDC, they should simply continue making use of the typical fiat that they have been using.

Moreover I don’t even see any difference between the fiat and the CBDC, it’s just the same thing, ; holding CBDC is just like you’re still holding the fiat, because it is paired to fiat and is just the same, except that maybe it is going to help banks to process transactions faster than they do this time around.

[Anonylz]

What type of civilization would the world practice with the barter system of centuries ago! This is not doable in this present generation, worst case scenario,  people will still stick to fiat even if crypto transaction was not accepted, cbdc is an optional payment method which will not completely eliminate the use of fiat, people can always decide which one to use, it is not mandatory.

[stompix]

If society experiences CBDCs and decides they do not like them, will it be possible to revert to a barter based system of trade?

If society is on something heavy and sees mass suicide as the only escape then yeah it's a solution.
Try even picturing how air travel or purchasing a car will work, and without the easy way out of it, only 50% of us are men (yeah, that's the misogynist in me speaking)  

During the height of the pandemic, the barter system somehow became a thing here in my city. Jobs were lost, businesses closed, movements were severely limited resulting to the lack of livelihood opportunities

The perfect world you would love to live in! Would you choose that over using a CBDC?

Think of, for example, the prison system: cash is not allowed but cigarettes and other goods are.

Yeah just great, only heaven on earth examples where barter would work.

I have another great example of barter when a bear follows you, you throw him a bag of biscuits and it lets you live (maybe!?), a thing you would not be able to do either with cash or crypto, so it's clear the barter system is definitely superior.

[Sterbens]

As technology develops, perhaps the barter system will go further and no longer function properly when with current technology it can reach far more P2P transactions. Even though the CBDC offer is being heralded by our government, it will certainly be very difficult to avoid it other than conducting transactions such as cryptocurrencies without any party interfering with payment activities or the delivery of an item.

Personally I wouldn't say the barter system is bad and so on, it's just that it's a transaction system that has evolved until now and finally changed with the times. We cannot avoid the barter system because that is where there is an alternative payment system, both with paper money, and cryptocurrencies, which are currently the ones we use the most for various transactions.

[kryptqnick]

Central banks have announced CBDCs (central bank issued digital currencies). Some have voiced concerns of CBDCs being tools of surveillance and control. If society experiences CBDCs and decides they do not like them, will it be possible to revert to a barter based system of trade?

A barter based system could be more susceptible to fraud and scams. Yet would allow for financial transaction outside of CBDC regulation. This could become a necessary step if some individuals and businesses are deplatformed by CBDC. Some businesses can only survive by paying workers under the table.

In practice a barter based system could function similar to ebay with an independent and reliable 3rd party form of escrow. (Blockchain based of course, we aren't complete savages and primitives  )

Could a barter system be a worthwhile form of trade past the year 2022. Perhaps the next big leap forward will be a retro move backward into the past.

Firstly, I don't think there's a single country that is fully transitioning to CBDC as of yet. They have their fiat and start introducing the CBDC as a digital representation of that fiat, but it's really only a handful of places, and fiat is still a big deal. Secondly, I honestly don't think that many people care about privacy issues when it comes to financial behavior. Also, when some countries turn to CBDCs, it doesn't mean that all fiat if going extinct, so the most natural solution for those who are unhappy with the CBDC would be to use a reputable fiat currency like dollar and make transactions in cash. There are also decentralized cryptos that can be used as money for these cases.
I believe that it's hypothetically possible that civilizations will revert to barter, but only under apocalyptic circumstances when nothing useless can truly be of value and people use barter simply to survive.

[SirLancelot]

How exactly would people be reverting to the barter system? This is a system that has stopped for long, and I don’t see the world going back to this same system again, can’t imagine how possible that is going to be. And moreover the fiat system that we have been using for so many years now has been having issues for long, but no one talks about the world reverting to trade by barter system. So, what makes you think that if the government should release the CBDC, it is going to be like that?

It is not going to be like that, and for your info, the CBDC is still this same Fiat system that you have been using since you were born, nothing new at all, they are just giving you the same thing, except that it has the word digital in it this time.