Buying BTC anonymously

[Badbouy]

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?

[1714977181]

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[1714977181]

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[jackg]

If you do some research and find the most common value sent over the xmr network in a transaction then you might get somewhere.

The issue will be that someone might notice $100 being bought and moved twice and then exist as $100-fees in your bitcoin wallet.

[BitMaxz]

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

Your process is too long so buying bitcoin directly would be the best option than buying XMR to BTC.

There are lots of Bitcoin mixers or tumblers you can try Wasabi it has a feature to mix them or use Chipmixer.

[DaveF]

Or use cash a something like localcryptos.com
There are other ones too that allow for F2F transactions, depending on where you are.
Also the amounts matter, $1000 is a lot easier then $20000.
Location matters too, it's easier to find traders in a big city then more rural areas.

-Dave

[GreatArkansas]

I agree with DaveF and Bitmaxz,

For using P2P transactions for buying Bitcoin, there are already a lot of ways these days depending on your location, you can use;
https://paxful.com/buy-bitcoin
https://localbitcoins.com/
And there are some people who are selling on different groups that can be found on social media, like Facebook (beware of scammers).

Another thing is you can use some network and just bridge them to your Bitcoin wallet, as there is a lot of wrapped Bitcoin (wBTC) on different chains these days, like Ethereum, Solana, BSC, etc.
Just expect some huge transaction fees here.

[Jawhead999]

You start it wrong by buying Monero on a KYC exchanges, the exchanges already know who're you and how much you buy Monero on their exchanges. If you want to do such anonymously what you need to do is stay away from any centralized entity.

Instead to pay multiple unimportant fees, better to use mixer and DEX only.

Anyway VPN isn't recommended, because many VPN has bad privacy and it's only temporary masking.

[mk4]

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

Your process is too long so buying bitcoin directly would be the best option than buying XMR to BTC.

There are lots of Bitcoin mixers or tumblers you can try Wasabi it has a feature to mix them or use Chipmixer.

Pretty much this. The only reason I would take OP's approach if I'm worried that a local exchange would ban me from using their exchange because they found out that my coins are coinjoined/mixed. But beyond that, coinjoins/mixers it is.

[pooya87]

The problem with your method is finding that "non-KYC exchange" because they are hard to come by and those that exist are risky to use because they either enforce KYC in a hidden way or they are shady!
Your approach will also cost a lot in fees and other costs such as the fact that sometimes buyers of your coins in private will buy it at a much lower price (like if you want to sell XMR to BTC).

I think buying with cash and from individuals is more private and will cost less. Then you an run the coins through a mixer. Or as it was mentioned earlier just buy bitcoin as first step instead of XMR and run that through a mixer.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Firstly, use Tor (or maybe Tor over VPN if you know what you are doing) and not a VPN on its own if you are looking for real privacy.

Secondly, I would never do anything on a KYC exchange if you want to be anonymous. Even if it is buying Monero, that exchange then knows your real name, address, and other information, knows your payment information, and knows how much Monero you bought and when. They might not be able to track what you do with your Monero, but they can still pass your details on to a variety of third parties.

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

I hope this is a typo and you meant to say to "buy Bitcoin directly from any non-KYC exchange". Buying from a KYC exchange, even if you then mix your coins, is bad for your privacy.

For using P2P transactions for buying Bitcoin, there are already a lot of ways these days depending on your location, you can use;

The two exchanges you gave might be peer to peer, but they both require KYC and are therefore bad choices.

Here is a better list of non-KYC exchanges you should check out: https://kycnot.me/

[riskthebiscuit]

That sounds like a lot of leg work and risk. What about a mixer? What about finding somebody that wants to buy or sell IRL and can facilitate a trade? What about P2P markets? There are more options than you present, and I would think them all through carefully before proceeding.

[tranthidung]

For using P2P transactions for buying Bitcoin, there are already a lot of ways these days depending on your location, you can use;
https://paxful.com/buy-bitcoin

Paxful is good to use but it requires KYC.

https://localbitcoins.com

To buy Bitcoin anonymously, the best are Bisq exchange or hodlhodl but volume on Bisq is very low. A better volume on hodlhodl exchange.

Help: A list of LocalBitcoin alternatives (P2P marketplaces)

[Lucius]

I think buying with cash and from individuals is more private and will cost less.

I agree, but the problem is finding a trusted person, especially when it comes to larger amounts - no one should walk with thousands of $ in their pocket, and also not have a larger amount of BTC in some hot wallet on a smartphone. If there is an option for crypto ATM, perhaps it could be considered, although in that case a fee of at least 5% or more should be expected.

Of course, only if the ATM does not require the user to be verified in any other way than SMS - and this anonymity can be achieved if we do not use a number associated with our real identity.

[The Cryptovator]

I am wondering why too a lengthy process? You can use peer-to-peer exchange where doesn't require KYC. And most likely even you can buy from the forum currency exchange section and mix it through a reputed mixer. So your address will remain anonymous and can hold as you want. Storing Bitcoin into a hardware wallet would be great, it's secure and anonymous as well.

You will lose too many fees if you follow the process you described. Rather than you might look local exchange and mix it.

[Beparanf]

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?

Why not buy Bitcoin on CEX then withdraw it to a Bitcoin mixer like Chipmixer to convert it to untraced Bitcoin before you receive it on your hardware or software wallet. That way you will remove the trace to your coin and you are accumulating Bitcoin anonymously since on your method, You still use CEX for buying XMR and just use multiple private transaction just to bought Bitcoin anonymously while you can do it with a easy short step using mixer.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I agree, but the problem is finding a trusted person, especially when it comes to larger amounts - no one should walk with thousands of $ in their pocket, and also not have a larger amount of BTC in some hot wallet on a smartphone.

If you use a platform such as Bisq or LocalCryptos, then you will deposit the crypto in question to a non-custodial escrow before meeting your trading partner, so you are not carrying the crypto in a hot wallet. Similarly, you could always meet at a bank (or even an ATM depending on your country's daily ATM limits) and take cash out immediately prior to the trade. I've done this before, and it also removes the risk of counterfeit cash being used.

That way you will remove the trace to your coin and you are accumulating Bitcoin anonymously since on your method

There is nothing anonymous about using a centralized exchange. Sure, if you pass your coins through ChipMixer then the exchange will not be able to see where they end up, what you spend them on, who you send them to, etc., but they will still have a complete record of every single satoshi you have bought, when you bought it, how much you paid for it, and when you withdrew it, and they will link all that against your real name and identity and share it with who knows how many third parties or government agencies.

[zaesvlas]

Of course, I apologize for meddling in other matters. But why don't you just buy bitcoin? Why are you worried about anonymity?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Why are you worried about anonymity?

Why don't you use your real name when posting on this forum? Why don't you post your bank statement on Facebook? Why don't you publish every email you receive on Twitter? Why don't you share your browsing history with your friends, family, and employer?

There are a thousand reasons that everyone, you included, protects their privacy or wants anonymity in some part of their life every single day. Privacy when it comes to your finances is no different. In fact, the reverse question is more pertinent. Why would you want anyone in the world to be able to stick their nose in to your financial history and all your transactions?

[DaveF]

The other questions are how much time & effort do you want to put into being anonymous and how much extra you are will to pay and how anonymous do you want to be.

If you want quick and simple it's probably going to cost you more. i.e. finding an ATM that has a high enough non KYC limit to make the transaction you want to do. BUT those ATMs are usually seling 10% or more above preev / coinbase price.

Do you want to put the time and effort in to drive to a major city if you are not near one to to a F2F transaction vs. someone closer who may have worse rates since your choices are more limited.

Do you want to be anonymous from the government and all it's probing, or do you just not want friends / family / jobs / banks to know?

And so on....

-Dave

[teosanru]

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?

Yes it's correct, an easier option could be using a mixer straightaway, something like Chipmixer can easily help you remove the traces of your funds which means once you Buy BTC in a kyc exchange you then transfer your holdings to a mixer and then to a private key wallet and your funds will be safe. But yes in both the cases you have left the trail when you bought the funds so authorities eventually know what you started with.

[RickDeckard]

From time to time this question appears, but I have to say that I hadn't seen a solution such as yours - at least not as recent as my activity here (early this year). Whenever this kind of question appears, I have been mentioning this reply[1] of mine on another thread:

Exchanges that usually don't ask for "too much information", as in KYC procedures, usually offset that feature with a slight bump in their fees. However, if your friend is willing to pursue this path I'm sure he won't mind to pay a bit more considering that his private information is kept away from centralized entities. That said, and considering that he is in the US, I would recommend the following services:

• Bitsq[1]
• Localcoinswap[2]
• Localcryptos[3]

I reckon that he can always use one of the many reputable sellers that we have here in the forum - which I would say its the best option considering the goal - but perhaps he isn't willing to follow that route considering that he seems to be looking for a "no-frills" experience.
[1]https://bisq.network/
[2]https://localcoinswap.com/
[3]https://localcryptos.com/

Do note that some payment methods on Bisq eventually will expose some information about you to the seller (albeit not as huge as the information that exchanges keep). For example, if you use Revolut the seller will be able to see your username[2], and if you use TransferWise the seller will see your e-mail[3]. If you do end up using Bisq make sure you see which kind of information will be shared, depending on the method you choose.

I applause whenever I see someone whose privacy is being given a highlight in their life. In times where the concept of "privacy" seems to be at the bottom of Human conscience - at least in my group friends whose worries is to, despite my warnings, publish their life/sell their data to Facebook/WhatsApp/Instagram - it's always nice to see that at least most users here do worry about what entities hold their data. Your idea to get BTC for sure is complex, but I do wonder how many fees (both from services + transaction fees) would be lost in all those transactions.

If you're still considering other options, have a look on the previous linked shared by other members, plus the ones I mentioned. If you have any doubts come back here and I'm sure someone will be here to answer them.
[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368479.msg58312791#msg58312791
[2]https://bisq.wiki/Revolut
[3]https://bisq.wiki/TransferWise