Ledger Card Honeypot

[dkbit98]

Ledger just announced they are launching their own Crypto Life Card in partnership with Baanx Group, and it's going to be Visa Debit card.
Waiting list is open and available but knowing how Ledger handled multiple leaks before I would suggest that you use new and different email address for registration.
It's still unknown what countries and regions will be available, but whitelist button is not working for me so I can't see more details about this card.
For now we know that crypto will be converted to fiat at the time of purchase happens.

Is this a perfect honeypot or what?


https://cl-cards.com/waiting-list/

[bitmover]

Ledger just announced they are launching their own Crypto Life Card in partnership with Baanx Group, and it's going to be Visa Debit card.
Waiting list is open and available but knowing how Ledger handled multiple leaks before I would suggest that you use new and different email address for registration.
It's still unknown what countries and regions will be available, but whitelist button is not working for me so I can't see more details about this card.
For now we know that crypto will be converted to fiat at the time of purchase happens.

Is this a perfect honeypot or what?


https://cl-cards.com/waiting-list/

There are some cards like that in Brazil.

The problem with this kind of card is that they are usually linked to some exchange, where you need to do KYC.

So, you want to buy 50 USD item with your card? That is basically selling 50 USD in an exchange (with KYC). Everything will happen instantly.

Taxes will apply.

Personally, I prefer just to sell how much bitcoin I want, transfer to my bank account and use it how I find best.

[NeuroticFish]

Is this a perfect honeypot or what?

Not necessarily. There are quite a number of working crypto card businesses, so basically Ledger has missed the start by a great margin.
At this point it will depend greatly on convenience and fees. Then we can see if it can become a honeypot or just another business attempt made by Ledger to earn more money (more or less similar with them selling Cryptosteel products).

[dkbit98]

I don't know what moderator moved this topic to hardware wallet section, but I had to move it back here, this is crypto DEBIT CARD Service Discussion and we even have Big list of debit cards in same section.

[mk4]

I’m not planning on using such service any time soon, but to be fair — every cryptocurrency platform that requires AML/KYC is a honeypot. I don’t see this as something worse than the Binance’s and the BlockFi’s.

They better be damn sure leaks wouldn’t happen again though.

[Rikafip]

It's still unknown what countries and regions will be available, but whitelist button is not working for me so I can't see more details about this card.

Some info about first countries that will have access to their debit card leaked. And whitelisting worked for me normally, I got the email.

Expected to launch in the U.K., Germany, and France in the first quarter of 2022 — and in the U.S. in the second quarter — the card will be connected to the company’s desktop and mobile app Ledger Live, enabling users to conveniently buy, swap, and stake their crypto.

Is this a perfect honeypot or what?

Doubt it, but one can never be too careful, especially not after their data leak. But just in case, I am using a brand new email and if I decide to try it out, will get a new Ledger that will be used for that only.

[DireWolfM14]

I've had a competitor's card for nearly two years now, and it's really soured my opinion of crypto-backed credit/debit cards.  If it gets implemented properly it could really be a convenient option, but the company I've used (BitPay) is absolute shit.  They charge you for the card, they charge two Tx fees to fund the card, the card is practically useless at 99% of the places I want to use it, and then I recently learned they charge a fee for every month you don't use it.

Unfortunately I don't have any dirty money to launder, so I'm more concerned about usability, practicality, and affordability.  Normally I would be willing to sign up for these kinds of services, but I'm not going to sign up for this one.  I'll wait to see how the service operates and if they get good reviews from clients.  Not to mention, Ledger hasn't exactly been great at keeping their customer's private information secure, and this will obviously require more critical data than just buying a hardware wallet from their web store.

[Rikafip]

Unfortunately I don't have any dirty money to launder, so I'm more concerned about usability, practicality, and affordability. 

When it comes to bolded part, nothing beats Binance card. The biggest downside is that you will have to go through KYC on Binance in order to get one, but if that isn't a problem for you then that's the way to go if you want to spend crypto in an easy way. 

I've been using it for about six months now and I am pretty satisfied with it. Daily limit is quite big (~8000 euro), fee only 0.9 (default 1% cashback basically covers that),works on every ATM (daily limit for that is only 290 euro) and is pretty reliable. It will get occasionally denied for no obvious reason, but other than that it works pretty good.

I think that it's a good thing that Ledger is getting into debit card market as more competition should mean lower fees and better service and that's what we all want.

[FatFork]

Unfortunately I don't have any dirty money to launder, so I'm more concerned about usability, practicality, and affordability. 

When it comes to bolded part, nothing beats Binance card. The biggest downside is that you will have to go through KYC on Binance in order to get one, but if that isn't a problem for you then that's the way to go if you want to spend crypto in an easy way. 

Doesn't the same thing apply to all other crypto debit cards? I mean, is there a card that doesn't require us to go through KYC?

[Rikafip]

Doesn't the same thing apply to all other crypto debit cards? I mean, is there a card that doesn't require us to go through KYC?

True, AFAIK all debit card issuers ask for KYC but I was more aiming at Binance as I know that majority of people here are reluctant ( for a good reason) to give them their personal info. Unfortunately, I had to go through KYC in order to get access to my account; ~3 years ago my mobile phone where I had Google authenticator suddenly stopped working (couldn't fixed it either), and I couldn't find that recovery code, meaning I was locked out of the account. So in order to prove the ownership as I entered my real name there, I had to go through KYC.

If I didn't go through KYC already I probably wouldn't do it just for the sake of Binance card, even though I must say that it's much easier to spend crypto that way, than paying 5-7% fee on BATM and then depositing the money on your bank account like I did for a couple of years. That fee may seem ok when you are cashing out smaller amounts like few hundred euro, but when you want to cash out let's say 10k euro and BATM takes one average Croatian monthly salary (700 euro) as a fee, that fucking hurts.

[hugeblack]

Does anyone know whether the company is obliged to disclose all the data of customers who buy their devices, since providing banking services means providing some data, or is the company’s departments separate (them hardware wallets devices data will not effected)?

Overall, if a platform like Binance didn't succeed in promoting these cards, I don't think Ledger would, but at least this may be the general trend in the future (Bitcoin as a central reserve, second networks instead of the main Bitcoin network).

[dkbit98]

Some info about first countries that will have access to their debit card leaked. And whitelisting worked for me normally, I got the email.

I had to change my browser and it worked in the end, I used new email for registration and I am monitoring situation for any news.

It's normal thing that you need to pass KYC procedure when you are signing up for any debit card, but what puzzles me here is the fact that your ledger devices will be directly connected with this card.
I don't know what terms and fees they will offer and if that is better than binance card, but it's red alert for me to connect anything like this with cold wallets.
It's even more crazy when I hear Ledger CEO talking about plans to turn their hardware wallet into some weird phone like thing in future with debit card on top, this sounds like a circus to me

[Rikafip]

I don't see any benefit compared with other crypto debit/credit card, so i doubt this product will be popular.  New user is more likely to use card from more popular company (e.g. Binance) while veteran user would use card which already ready to use.

Well, in case of Ledger card your crypto will be on your hardware wallet and not on the exchange. For me that's a pretty big advantage, given that their fees and ease of use remains somewhat similar to Binance card.

I don't know what terms and fees they will offer and if that is better than binance card, but it's red alert for me to connect anything like this with cold wallets.

If I ever decide to try their card, I certainly won't connect my main cold wallet which I access once or twice per year. Instead, I will simply get another Ledger and once per month send the funds I plan to spend there, like I am doing now with Binance.  

[The Sceptical Chymist]

They better be damn sure leaks wouldn’t happen again though.

Pfft.  Even the biggest corporations with departments devoted to security can't seem to keep breaches from happening, so I have little faith that a company like Ledger would be able to be sure data leaks won't happen again.  With this new service, they've probably just painted a big red target on their backs for hackers.

Doesn't the same thing apply to all other crypto debit cards? I mean, is there a card that doesn't require us to go through KYC?

I've never used a crypto debit card, but I don't see how anyone (at least in the US or any country with strict banking laws) could use one without going through some kind of KYC process.  The government just wouldn't allow it, and Ledger sure as hell isn't going to run afoul of any government's regulations.

[DaveF]

I've had a competitor's card for nearly two years now, and it's really soured my opinion of crypto-backed credit/debit cards.  If it gets implemented properly it could really be a convenient option, but the company I've used (BitPay) is absolute shit.  They charge you for the card, they charge two Tx fees to fund the card, the card is practically useless at 99% of the places I want to use it, and then I recently learned they charge a fee for every month you don't use it.

Unfortunately I don't have any dirty money to launder, so I'm more concerned about usability, practicality, and affordability.  Normally I would be willing to sign up for these kinds of services, but I'm not going to sign up for this one.  I'll wait to see how the service operates and if they get good reviews from clients.  Not to mention, Ledger hasn't exactly been great at keeping their customer's private information secure, and this will obviously require more critical data than just buying a hardware wallet from their web store.

Bit of snark but did you read the fees section? It's always been there $5.00 / month after 90 days of non use, it's what you agreed to when you signed up.
Agree the card sucks for other reasons, don't get me wrong. But they never hid that fact.

Most of them have that or worse:
https://support.unbanked.com/support/solutions/articles/44000411370-what-are-the-fees-to-use-the-card-

There are others but most are similar.
The main advantage of BitPay is that you can use it to get cash back so outside of the crap exchange fees you can use it for BTC -> Cash (at least in the US) so there is that.

-Dave

[Pmalek]

I've never used a crypto debit card, but I don't see how anyone (at least in the US or any country with strict banking laws) could use one without going through some kind of KYC process.  The government just wouldn't allow it, and Ledger sure as hell isn't going to run afoul of any government's regulations.

No, that won't happen. They have not mentioned anything about KYC in their announcement for the upcoming service, so someone might get the wrong impression that since they don't need to undergo KYC to use their hardware wallet or Ledger Live, the same will apply to the debit card. It won't.

We can see from the limited list of supported countries that they will try it out in well-organized western nations and the EU. If they wanted chaos, they could test it in the Balkans, Nigeria, or Venezuela. 

[Hispo]

Assuming the crypto will indeed stay in a cold storage.

Would not that imply they may require us to provide xpubs to proof existence of funds?  

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it is the case collecting xpubs from users does not sound good.

[suchmoon]

I've had a competitor's card for nearly two years now, and it's really soured my opinion of crypto-backed credit/debit cards.

Never understood the appeal of these things. A good credit card that's accepted everywhere, 1-5% cash back, grace period, etc, works great for fiat purchases. Then I can pay the monthly bill by selling some corn if I'm so inclined. Much easier for tax returns too, ~12 transactions instead of hundreds.

Well, in case of Ledger card your crypto will be on your hardware wallet and not on the exchange.

Most likely you'll have to move it in order to use the card. So that probably means funding the card in advance or carrying the HW wallet with you along with the card and fiddling with it on the spot.

[DireWolfM14]

~

Bit of snark but did you read the fees section? It's always been there $5.00 / month after 90 days of non use, it's what you agreed to when you signed up.
Agree the card sucks for other reasons, don't get me wrong. But they never hid that fact.

Most of them have that or worse:
https://support.unbanked.com/support/solutions/articles/44000411370-what-are-the-fees-to-use-the-card-

There are others but most are similar.
The main advantage of BitPay is that you can use it to get cash back so outside of the crap exchange fees you can use it for BTC -> Cash (at least in the US) so there is that.

-Dave

Snark away, my skin callouses have been through worse.  I'm sure I did read the fee structure before I set up my account, but I figure I would be using the cash before that came up so it must have slipped my memory.  But then the struggle of where to use it keeps coming up.

A good credit card that's accepted everywhere, 1-5% cash back, grace period, etc, works great for fiat purchases. Then I can pay the monthly bill by selling some corn if I'm so inclined. Much easier for tax returns too, ~12 transactions instead of hundreds.

Excellent points, which are why I wasn't really heart-broken about the bitpay card not meeting my expectations.  

[DaveF]

I've had a competitor's card for nearly two years now, and it's really soured my opinion of crypto-backed credit/debit cards.

Never understood the appeal of these things. A good credit card that's accepted everywhere, 1-5% cash back, grace period, etc, works great for fiat purchases. Then I can pay the monthly bill by selling some corn if I'm so inclined. Much easier for tax returns too, ~12 transactions instead of hundreds.

Well, in case of Ledger card your crypto will be on your hardware wallet and not on the exchange.

Most likely you'll have to move it in order to use the card. So that probably means funding the card in advance or carrying the HW wallet with you along with the card and fiddling with it on the spot.

Drifting a bit from the original topic. I have been using the Coinbase card.
4% cashback in XLM, and if you use USDC to fund it, since it's a 'stablecoin', there are no tax implications.
Yes, you should be reporting the trades that you do to get the USDC before sending it to Coinbase, but they themselves do not report what you spend in USDC.
They will report all other transactions.
Hmmmm, they don't report the stablecoin that they created and support. Coming up in tomorrows news.....water is wet :-)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5348368

-Dave