Bitcoin Forum
November 01, 2024, 01:04:54 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: US Real Estate Enters A Bubble For The First Time Since 2007: US Federal Reserve  (Read 65 times)
Hydrogen (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441



View Profile
December 09, 2021, 02:11:19 PM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (3), Upgrade00 (2)
 #1


Quote
US real estate prices are looking frothy, according to central bank researchers. The US Federal Reserve (the Fed) recently updated its exuberance index for Q2 2021. The little-known index exists to identify housing bubbles early, to minimize damage. For the first time since 2007, that indicator is now warning that US real estate prices are in a bubble. Did the Fed even notice?

The US Federal Reserve Exuberance Index
Exuberance might sound like a good thing, but when economists say it — lookout. If asset buyers are said to be exuberant, they’re excitedly paying emotional premiums. These premiums are above fundamentals, paid because people think prices will always rise. If buyers are exuberant for an extended period, the whole market can become exuberant. Exuberant buyers no longer stand out in contrast to rational buyers. It’s been happening just long enough that people think it’s the new market normal.

After the US housing bubble nearly took down the global economy, housing became a focus. Previously, experts thought real estate was local. Now they’ve come to learn that exuberant homebuyers can take down a whole economy if left unchecked. Consequently, researchers set out to design this exuberance indicator, to help identify bubbles.

The exuberance index works by identifying explosive growth in home prices. Explosive growth is just another way of saying growth above fundamentals. The longer a market strays from fundamentals, the greater the odds it needs a correction. If the whole market shows persistent exuberance, it will require a correction to make it efficient. The central bank can minimize the economic fallout by identifying these issues early.

How To Read The Exuberance Index
The Dallas Fed did all of the hard work, and analysts just have to learn how to read a straightforward data set. We’ve graphed two values — the exuberance indicator and critical threshold. If the exuberance rises above the critical threshold, buyers are exuberant. If the market prints five consecutive exuberant quarters, the whole market is exuberant. An exuberant real estate market is better known as a real estate bubble.

US Real Estate Has Entered Its First Bubble Since 2005
American real estate buyers are displaying obvious signs of exuberance. The exuberance index read 2.8 in Q2 2021, more than double the 1.37 threshold needed to seem bubbly. The most recent quarter was the fifth above the threshold, making it officially a bubble. Home prices across the US have been on the rise for a few years now, but they’ve only just begun to show exuberant growth. American housing is in its first national bubble since 2007.

US Real Estate Exuberance Index
The US Federal Reserve Exuberance Index for American real estate, and critical value threshold. A market that is above the threshold for 5 consecutive quarters is considered to be exuberant.



Source: US Federal Reserve; Better Dwelling.

The last time this indicator showed bubble-like behavior was back in 2007. That run first produced a warning from Q1 1998 until finally falling below the threshold in Q3 2007. That’s 39 quarters or 9.75 years for you weirdos that don’t count your kid’s birthdays in dividend payments. Nearly a decade of exuberance caused a bubble big enough to take down the economy in a correction. The most recent five quarters of exuberance look tiny in contrast, don’t they?

Declaring a bubble after just five quarters might seem early, but that’s the point. The indicators help central banks and policymakers identify them early. By alerting policy makers early, they can act and contain the issue before it gets out of control. The current bubble will be the first time in history that the US has a system in place for an early warning.

The question is, will they ignore the warning sign? Central banks have become increasingly political, dismissing even their own research. It wouldn’t be surprising to see them gloss over existing warning systems as they did with inflation. Though the “transitory” narrative was retired shortly after they would have seen this data.

https://betterdwelling.com/us-real-estate-enters-a-bubble-for-the-first-time-since-2007-us-federal-reserve/


....


It wouldn't be a legit economic or financial discussion, without a daily prediction of future doom and gloom.

It is interesting to me that we have metrics for identifying housing bubbles in advance. I can't recall this topic having been brought up before.

A common urban myth in finance is the concept of bitcoin being a bubble. Could it be possible to devise a system of metrics which might identify the degree to which cryptocurrencies were actual bubbles? There doesn't appear to have been much of an attempt to quantify such claims made by Jamie Dimon and others.

If it were possible to devise metrics for identifying potential bubbles in crypto, what would they look like?

Upgrade00
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 2342


Playgram - The Telegram Casino


View Profile WWW
December 09, 2021, 02:51:26 PM
 #2

It is interesting to me that we have metrics for identifying housing bubbles in advance. I can't recall this topic having been brought up before.
It is quite interesting, but have there been any records of it being used successfully to determine a bubble in advance before the most recent case where the warning began from Q1 of 1998?

A common urban myth in finance is the concept of bitcoin being a bubble. Could it be possible to devise a system of metrics which might identify the degree to which cryptocurrencies were actual bubbles? There doesn't appear to have been much of an attempt to quantify such claims made by Jamie Dimon and others.

If it were possible to devise metrics for identifying potential bubbles in crypto, what would they look like?
The idea of bitcoin being a bubble has all but been debunked, and if used now, it would likely be referring to particular points in the market valuation and not the entire network.
Bubbles to identify crypto bubbles would possibly assess trader sentiments through buy and sell pressure, evaluated price increase against the actual increase in the price and other possible criteria.

▄▄███████▄▄███████
▄███████████████▄▄▄▄▄
▄████████████████████▀░
▄█████████████████████▄░
▄█████████▀▀████████████▄
██████████████▀▀█████████
████████████████████████
██████████████▄▄█████████
▀█████████▄▄████████████▀
▀█████████████████████▀░
▀████████████████████▄░
▀███████████████▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀███████▀▀███████

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 
Playgram.io
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

▄▄▄░░
▀▄







▄▀
▀▀▀░░
▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
▄▄███████████████▄▄
▄███████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀█████▄
▄██████████▀▀█████▐████▄
██████▀▀████▄▄▀▀█████████
████▄▄███▄██▀█████▐██████
█████████▀██████████████
▀███████▌▐██████▐██████▀
▀███████▄▄███▄████████▀
▀███████████████████▀
▀▀███████████████▀▀
▀▀▀███████▀▀▀
██████▄▄███████▄▄████████
███▄███████████████▄░░▀█▀
███████████░█████████░░
░█████▀██▄▄░▄▄██▀█████░
█████▄░▄███▄███▄░▄█████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
██░▄▄▄░██░▄▄▄░██░▄▄▄░██
██░░░░██░░░░██░░░░████
██░░░░██░░░░██░░░░████
██▄▄▄▄▄██▄▄▄▄▄██▄▄▄▄▄████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
 
PLAY NOW

on Telegram
[/
Hydrogen (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441



View Profile
December 09, 2021, 03:17:43 PM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (4)
 #3

It is interesting to me that we have metrics for identifying housing bubbles in advance. I can't recall this topic having been brought up before.
It is quite interesting, but have there been any records of it being used successfully to determine a bubble in advance before the most recent case where the warning began from Q1 of 1998?



I think the last subprime mortgage bubble was due to leveraged collaterized debt obligations (CDOs). Government programs to fund home loans for those who normally would not be able to qualify for them, also played a role.

There was an urban legend which said the value of US real estate could never decline. Due to no one remembering a time when it had happened. Many projections used to quantify the market value of CDOs were based upon an assumption that the price of real estate would never decline. When the value of US real estate actually did fall, due to a high number of high risk, government funded, home loans failing. The leveraged positions took a big hit.

I guess it is very hard to predict that. Which is why so many were caught by surprise. Even professionals in real estate who had been in the industry for many years were shocked and surprised.

There were a handful of people who saw it coming years in advance. But not enough for anyone to listen to them, or take them seriously.
adaseb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3878
Merit: 1733


View Profile
December 10, 2021, 03:17:35 AM
 #4

Looking at the chart, it looks like it entered bubble territory in 97 and didn’t actually burst until 10 years later so not the most reliable indicator. Kind of like most indicators for Bitcoin prices when it goes parabolic, sure it’s overbought but can be overbought for a very long time before it starts to peak.

What’s going on now with Evergrande and Zillow won’t really affect home prices. At least not in the near term. What can affect home prices is perhaps fed rates which I think would make home prices for flat rather than trend up like for the past few years.
Rruchi man
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470
Merit: 1109


Use chips.gg


View Profile
December 10, 2021, 04:54:01 AM
 #5

If it were possible to devise metrics for identifying potential bubbles in crypto, what would they look like?

A metrics for identifying potential bubble in crypto? wow, that will be an invaluable resource to the crypto community. I imagine the possibility, and it will mean that almost everyone who is crypto involved will profit massively from adhering to the metrics. More individuals will be attracted to the crypto space and there is also the possibility to drastically reduce poverty. A metric system if possible will definitely be a breakthrough.

▄▄███████████████████▄▄
▄███████████████████████▄
████████▀░░░░░░░▀████████
███████░░░░░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░░░░███████
██████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▀██████
██████▄░░░░░▄███▄░▄██████
██████████▀▀█████████████
████▀▄██▀░░░░▀▀▀░▀██▄▀███
███░░▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀░░███
████▄▄░░░░▄███▄░░░░▄▄████
▀███████████████████████▀
▀▀███████████████████▀▀
 
 CHIPS.GG 
▄▄███████▄▄
▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄
███▀░▄░▀▀▀▀▀░▄░▀███
▄███
░▄▀░░░░░░░░░▀▄░███▄
▄███░▄░░░▄█████▄░░░▄░███▄
███░▄▀░░░███████░░░▀▄░███
███░█░░░▀▀▀▀▀░░░▀░░░█░███
███░▀▄░▄▀░▄██▄▄░▀▄░▄▀░██
▀███
░▀░▀▄██▀░▀██▄▀░▀░██▀
▀███
░▀▄░░░░░░░░░▄▀░██▀
▀███▄
░▀░▄▄▄▄▄░▀░▄███▀
▀█
███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
█████████████████████████
▄▄███████▄▄
███
████████████▄
▄█▀▀▀▄
█████████▄▀▀▀█▄
▄██████▀▄▄▄▄▄▀██████▄
▄█████████████▄████████▄
████████▄███████▄████████
█████▄█████████▄██████
██▄▄▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀▄▄██
▀█████████▀▀███████████▀
▀███████████████████▀
██████████████████
▀████▄███▄▄
████▀
████████████████████████
3000+
UNIQUE
GAMES
|
12+
CURRENCIES
ACCEPTED
|
VIP
REWARD
PROGRAM
 
 
  Play Now  
magneto
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666
Merit: 753


View Profile
December 10, 2021, 04:57:26 AM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (2)
 #6

Well, it's good that they are detecting exactly what they have done to the economy.

A combination of easy monetary policy and low interest rates have fuelled the biggest asset bubble in decades, and the unwinding could likely be worse than anything that we've ever seen before.

Be vigilant out here. This can get ugly real quick.
Poker Player
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1554
Merit: 2215



View Profile
December 10, 2021, 06:58:56 AM
Merited by The Sceptical Chymist (4)
 #7

Call me crazy if you want, but I don't trust what the Fed says. The problem with this, as in other cases, is that we don't have an algorithm to determine if we are in a bubble or not, be it in the crypto market or RE.

To me the rise in houses what it points to is what the FED doesn't want to talk about: the effects of massive money printing, which what it does is seek a safe haven to protect against inflation. In that chart and that explanation of exuberance, I wish they had brought the speed of money printing into the equation.

Come on, I'm not saying there isn't a bubble in RE, but to me the biggest bubble is the massive printing bubble, and they don't talk about that or what effect it has on the rising price of RE.


▄▄███████▄▄
▄██████████████▄
▄██████████████████▄
▄████▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████████▄█▀████▄
███████████▄███████████
██████████▄█▀███████████
██████████▀████████████
▀█████▄█▀█████████████▀
▀████▄▄▄▄███▄▄▄▄████▀
▀██████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████
█████████████████████████
█████████▄▄▄▄▄▄
██████▄█████████▄
█████▄████▀▀░░▀███
████▄█████░░░░░▀██▌
█████████▀▄░░▄▄░███
███▐██████▀▌░█▀░▌▐█
███▐████▌░█▌░▄░░░█▌
█████████▀██▄▄▀░███
██▀██████▄▀▄▄▀░▄████▄▄
░█▄██████░█▄▄▄███████▄
░▄█████▌░███░██████████▄
█████████████████████████
████











████
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
US PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION 2024

██    ██    ██    ██    ██    ██    ██    ██    ██    ██
|
TRUMP
vs
HARRIS
████











████
█████████████████████████
█████████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████▄▀▄░░▀▄▄▀▄
██████▐█▄▄▀░░▄▀▄▄▀▐
███████▀▀▄▄▄▄▄███▌█
███████▐▄▄▄▄▀▄▄░█▌█▌
██████▐█▀██▀░▌▄▀███▌
████████▄░░▄▄█░▄██▀
███████▐░░▄▄▄▄░▐█▌
████▄▄███▄▀▀▀▀▀█▀█▄▄
▄▄███████▀█████▀░█████▄▄
█████████░░▄█▄░░▐████████
█████████████████████████
████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████
 
. BET NOW .
kryptqnick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3276
Merit: 1402


Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!


View Profile
December 10, 2021, 08:49:25 AM
 #8

To be honest, I think I heard talks of the real estate market moving towards a bubble similar to 2008 back in 2020. There's even an article from 2020 about it on Forbes.
So I'm surprised it hasn't already happened, and that the global economy is doing quite alright in general, considering the hit of the pandemic. I don't believe it can be delayed forever, and at some point the explosion will probably happen, but it can happen easily in a year from now rather than in a few months.
If there are metrics of identifying bubbles, it's great as long as they actually help to make the loss smaller or preventing the catastrophe altogether. But do they, though?
The question of metrics for Bitcoin is very interesting, but I have no idea how it could be measured.

  ▄▄███████▄███████▄▄▄
 █████████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄▄
███████████████
       ▀▀███▄
███████████████
          ▀███
 █████████████
             ███
███████████▀▀               ███
███                         ███
███                         ███
 ███                       ███
  ███▄                   ▄███
   ▀███▄▄             ▄▄███▀
     ▀▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀▀
         ▀▀▀███████▀▀▀
░░░████▄▄▄▄
░▄▄░
▄▄███████▄▀█████▄▄
██▄████▌▐█▌█████▄██
████▀▄▄▄▌███░▄▄▄▀████
██████▄▄▄█▄▄▄██████
█░███████░▐█▌░███████░█
▀▀██▀░██░▐█▌░██░▀██▀▀
▄▄▄░█▀░█░██░▐█▌░██░█░▀█░▄▄▄
██▀░░░░▀██░▐█▌░██▀░░░░▀██
▀██
█████▄███▀▀██▀▀███▄███████▀
▀███████████████████████▀
▀▀▀▀███████████▀▀▀▀
█████████████LEADING CRYPTO SPORTSBOOK & CASINO█████████████
MULTI
CURRENCY
1500+
CASINO GAMES
CRYPTO EXCLUSIVE
CLUBHOUSE
FAST & SECURE
PAYMENTS
.
..PLAY NOW!..
The Sceptical Chymist
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3500
Merit: 6984


Top Crypto Casino


View Profile
December 10, 2021, 02:06:31 PM
 #9

The idea of bitcoin being a bubble has all but been debunked
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you or what, but bitcoin isn't a bubble, but that's not to say that it isn't or hasn't ever been in one.  Assets are never defined by them being a bubble, but rather are described as being in one at any given time--and I'd say that bitcoin has experienced at least one since its inception (the lead-up to December 2017).  Right now I'm pretty sure it's not in bubble territory, since its price trajectory hasn't been consistently upward as it has been in previous years.

A metrics for identifying potential bubble in crypto? wow, that will be an invaluable resource to the crypto community.
Sure.  If you could get anyone to believe the data, which is highly unlikely.  Anyone with a critical eye could see that bitcoin was in a bubble in November 2017, but you wouldn't think any such people existed based on the comments here during that period.  People were vehemently arguing that bitcoin was not in a bubble, that it was headed to $50k, $100k, you name it.  And that's the thing about bubbles; they turn speculators' minds to mush, and normally rational people are unwilling to objectively evaluate any data that says their investment of choice is waaay overvalued.

███████████████████████
████▐██▄█████████████████
████▐██████▄▄▄███████████
████▐████▄█████▄▄████████
████▐█████▀▀▀▀▀███▄██████
████▐███▀████████████████
████▐█████████▄█████▌████
████▐██▌█████▀██████▌████
████▐██████████▀████▌████
█████▀███▄█████▄███▀█████
███████▀█████████▀███████
██████████▀███▀██████████

███████████████████████
.
BC.GAME
▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄
▄▀▀░▄██▀░▀██▄░▀▀▄
▄▀░▐▀▄░▀░░▀░░▀░▄▀▌░▀▄
▄▀▄█▐░▀▄▀▀▀▀▀▄▀░▌█▄▀▄
▄▀░▀░░█░▄███████▄░█░░▀░▀▄
█░█░▀░█████████████░▀░█░█
█░██░▀█▀▀█▄▄█▀▀█▀░██░█
█░█▀██░█▀▀██▀▀█░██▀█░█
▀▄▀██░░░▀▀▄▌▐▄▀▀░░░██▀▄▀
▀▄▀██░░▄░▀▄█▄▀░▄░░██▀▄▀
▀▄░▀█░▄▄▄░▀░▄▄▄░█▀░▄▀
▀▄▄▀▀███▄███▀▀▄▄▀
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████
.
..CASINO....SPORTS....RACING..


▄▄████▄▄
▄███▀▀███▄
██████████
▀███▄░▄██▀
▄▄████▄▄░▀█▀▄██▀▄▄████▄▄
▄███▀▀▀████▄▄██▀▄███▀▀███▄
███████▄▄▀▀████▄▄▀▀███████
▀███▄▄███▀░░░▀▀████▄▄▄███▀
▀▀████▀▀████████▀▀████▀▀
Upgrade00
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 2342


Playgram - The Telegram Casino


View Profile WWW
December 10, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
 #10

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you or what, but bitcoin isn't a bubble, but that's not to say that it isn't or hasn't ever been in one.  Assets are never defined by them being a bubble, but rather are described as being in one at any given time--and I'd say that bitcoin has experienced at least one since its inception (the lead-up to December 2017).
You misunderstood me; I wrote that the idea of Bitcoin being a bubble has all but been debunked, meaning people used to have that idea, especially during the early stages of bitcoins development, but right now, that has been debunked or proven to be false.

I also added that "...and if used now, it would likely be referring to particular points in the market valuation and not the entire network." This means that if at all the term 'bubble' was used now, it would be referring to poins in the market valuation or increases in price, rather than the entire network itself.

▄▄███████▄▄███████
▄███████████████▄▄▄▄▄
▄████████████████████▀░
▄█████████████████████▄░
▄█████████▀▀████████████▄
██████████████▀▀█████████
████████████████████████
██████████████▄▄█████████
▀█████████▄▄████████████▀
▀█████████████████████▀░
▀████████████████████▄░
▀███████████████▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀███████▀▀███████

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 
Playgram.io
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

▄▄▄░░
▀▄







▄▀
▀▀▀░░
▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
▄▄███████████████▄▄
▄███████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀█████▄
▄██████████▀▀█████▐████▄
██████▀▀████▄▄▀▀█████████
████▄▄███▄██▀█████▐██████
█████████▀██████████████
▀███████▌▐██████▐██████▀
▀███████▄▄███▄████████▀
▀███████████████████▀
▀▀███████████████▀▀
▀▀▀███████▀▀▀
██████▄▄███████▄▄████████
███▄███████████████▄░░▀█▀
███████████░█████████░░
░█████▀██▄▄░▄▄██▀█████░
█████▄░▄███▄███▄░▄█████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
██░▄▄▄░██░▄▄▄░██░▄▄▄░██
██░░░░██░░░░██░░░░████
██░░░░██░░░░██░░░░████
██▄▄▄▄▄██▄▄▄▄▄██▄▄▄▄▄████
███████████████████████
███████████████████████
 
PLAY NOW

on Telegram
[/
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!