JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Charcol]

It is very easy to have opportunity but difficult to be able to see it, understand the opportunity and use it wisely, some persons never really take Bitcoin serious, they think it's just a mere game like gambling and seeing Bitcoin that it will no longer be in existence and so don't want geopadise their future or to even try and invest it it and that is why I love Bitcoin because it doesn't force anyone to invest, only time will tell by then it will be to late, they will all be in regrets, therefore for those investors that are opportune to accept and invest in bitcoin should always not forget to invest with their discretionary income and avoid selling at every point in time so that you can get to your overaccumulation stage as at your target.

I agree with you that Bitcoin does not force anyone to invest. Rather, the person can decide for himself whether he should invest or not. In this case, everyone has his own freedom. But it may be wrong to say with certainty that "it will be too late for those who have not started investing yet or they will all regret it".

Maybe someone is skeptical about Bitcoin or someone may not have discretionary income after meeting the necessary expenses. Putting them in the same group and saying that they will regret it in the future can create psychological stress rather than investment logic. Because it is better to start with a small amount and understand your financial situation in a sustainable way in the long term than to rush out of fear.

For example, someone may buy today at a low price, but if that is the money for their essential expenses, they may have to sell at the first emergency. Another person may start a little late, but if they buy with their discretionary income and have a long-term and realistic plan, they may be able to survive in the market for a long time. If someone does not have discretionary income, there is nothing wrong with waiting a little. Rather, they may be forced to sell at a loss.

[obuoma]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

You are obviously mixing a lot of things up especially with the DCA method. The DCA method requires regularity  in terms of when to huy and how much to invest per time. If you have irregular cash flow,  you can still use the DCA method but that will require making estimates based on average of your income flow for a period of six months or even a year. With this you will be able to have an estimate of your discretionary income from there you will know what to allocate to your monthly or weekly DCA. It is not complicated and there are many people with irregular cash flow that are using this method.

[IceLincoln]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

You are not buying bitcoin with your income but with your discretionary income. Some people have consistent income but they don't have any discretionary income. Whereas, some people income isn't consistent but they have enough discretionary income to keep them in the bitcoin accumulation game overtime. Example of such people are contractors.

It's good to be consistent in your bitcoin accumulation to reach your target fast but you don't need to force yourself to buy bitcoin when you don't have a discretionary income at that moment. Skipping one or two buys in six months doesn't mean you ain't consistent. It becomes a problem when you have discretionary income but choose not to buy bitcoin for no reason.

Circumstances can arise and make it difficult. At the same time we can't ignore our finances just to serve an obligation of the continuous accumulation of Bitcoin. Not saying we shouldn't, but ignoring factors in the house will eventually bring that accumulation of Bitcoin to an end

That's true. There are times that your expenses will eat up your discretionary income and you will be left with nothing, you don't need to buy bitcoin that week/month until, when your discretionary income is available again the next week, you can buy again. It's a must for a long term bitcoin investor to put his basic needs and monthly expenses prior to his bitcoin investment.

You can also look for other means to increase your income in order for you to be consistent overtime so that, you can always have discretionary income to buy bitcoin till you reach your bitcoin target.

Are they not all classified as income? Yes they are. But there's the main income that allows you do split your income across board of which one of the board is discretionary income.

Moving forward, as I have clarified that. Can discretionary income remain the same in inflation period? Of course not. In as much as you said one shouldn't force himself to buy Bitcoin he or she has to adjust to keep up the pace. It's not all about increasing. What if there is no way to increase your income? Then the alternative is to adjust your income across board. Pending when you find a way to increase your income.

You’re trying to create a scenario for an excuse why someone would not invest in bitcoin. One thing you have to understand is in life development and growth is necessary. Everyone, investor or not should always thrive to increase their incomes. If your today is not better than yesterday then you have much work to do to better your life.
Consistency in bitcoin accumulation is important but also is survival. If your basic expenses cannot be adjusted to provide more discretionary, it’s best to leave it than to reduce it today and suffer tomorrow and even jeopardise your investments.

[Soldroplet]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

I agree with your main point that irregular income does not make DCA impossible. But the main point is that you have discretionary income after meeting all your essential expenses. Whenever you have that extra money, you can buy Bitcoin according to your DCA plan. However, the phrase "buy in a good month, not a bad month" can seem a bit confusing to everyone and to beginners. Basically, the basis of DCA should not be judging the market or month as good or bad, but rather whether you have discretionary income.
The money that is left after ensuring all your essential expenses and emergency funds. It is not unusual to take a break if you do not have extra money in a month. Again, when you have extra money, you should resume buying according to the plan. Even if you have irregular income, even if income is irregular, it is most important to be consistent with the DCA plan in the long term.

[Bigjoe33]

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

[Different patterns]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

Exactly. you have highlighted the important principle, one thing people with irregular incomes should always remember is that they no need to force themselves under financial pressure because they want to accumulate bitcoin. Because once you feel that you must buy bitcoin every week or every month, even when your finances are under pressure. that approach can do more harm than good because it may force you to neglect the important expenses or force you to even sell your bitcoin just to cover unexpected costs.

But the important thing is not to just postpone getting started forever. as you wait for perfect financial situation, once discretionary income is available, you can start accumulating base on what you can comfortably afford, and keep returning whenever the finances is allow, that approach can help to stay consistent without being forced to sell your bitcoin.

[Exitoral]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

You are not buying bitcoin with your income but with your discretionary income. Some people have consistent income but they don't have any discretionary income. Whereas, some people income isn't consistent but they have enough discretionary income to keep them in the bitcoin accumulation game overtime. Example of such people are contractors.

It's good to be consistent in your bitcoin accumulation to reach your target fast but you don't need to force yourself to buy bitcoin when you don't have a discretionary income at that moment. Skipping one or two buys in six months doesn't mean you ain't consistent. It becomes a problem when you have discretionary income but choose not to buy bitcoin for no reason.

Circumstances can arise and make it difficult. At the same time we can't ignore our finances just to serve an obligation of the continuous accumulation of Bitcoin. Not saying we shouldn't, but ignoring factors in the house will eventually bring that accumulation of Bitcoin to an end

That's true. There are times that your expenses will eat up your discretionary income and you will be left with nothing, you don't need to buy bitcoin that week/month until, when your discretionary income is available again the next week, you can buy again. It's a must for a long term bitcoin investor to put his basic needs and monthly expenses prior to his bitcoin investment.

You can also look for other means to increase your income in order for you to be consistent overtime so that, you can always have discretionary income to buy bitcoin till you reach your bitcoin target.

Are they not all classified as income? Yes they are. But there's the main income that allows you do split your income across board of which one of the board is discretionary income.

Moving forward, as I have clarified that. Can discretionary income remain the same in inflation period? Of course not. In as much as you said one shouldn't force himself to buy Bitcoin he or she has to adjust to keep up the pace. It's not all about increasing. What if there is no way to increase your income? Then the alternative is to adjust your income across board. Pending when you find a way to increase your income.

You’re trying to create a scenario for an excuse why someone would not invest in bitcoin. One thing you have to understand is in life development and growth is necessary. Everyone, investor or not should always thrive to increase their incomes. If your today is not better than yesterday then you have much work to do to better your life.
Consistency in bitcoin accumulation is important but also is survival. If your basic expenses cannot be adjusted to provide more discretionary, it’s best to leave it than to reduce it today and suffer tomorrow and even jeopardise your investments.

I don't disagree that we should not increase our income. In fact, I very much love it. That is actually good and a long term goal. My point is and will always be that before that goal is reached, what happens along the way. That is were I am driving at, let me explain.

Inflation doesn't wait for nobody it creeps in like a thief. Affecting all your finances as the same time. And it won't wait for you to increase your income. Follow along. Now, there are people who's finances at that period becomes small and it will affect that discretionary income. Remember I am not implying that it will stop their discretionary income. Hope you are following? Smaller, in the sense that their expenses has risen due to inflation. In that situation, there's only one thing you can do. Remember again, the income is still sustainable but not like before. But can still carter for upkeep and investment. Only thing here is reduced. Pay attention.

This doesn't mean the person has to stop investing. Because our aim here is continuation. Not stopping. When affected by a plague called inflation, you don't stop investing. All you do is reduce the amount pending when your long term goal kicks in or something pulls your income up and allows you to go back to your original funds for investing.

I was never suggesting that someone should sacrifice their basic needs all in the name of investing. I never said so. My first point was that consistency doesn't always mean investing the same amount. Things happen. Pending when your finances are back up again.

Hope you understand me now? I made this so you won't misquote me when you reply me.

[Frankolala]

2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC).

This isn't really important because a brand new investor might find it difficult to know which wallet is best for him in the beginning. He might not be able to differentiate between close source and open source noncustodial wallet.

At the beginning of his investment, he can be storing his bitcoin in the exchange that he's buying it from while he continues to learn more about wallets and how know which one his best for him with time. My neighbor was accumulating Bitcoin and didn't know about self custody. It was when we were discussing that I told him about self custody and his learned about it. Transfer his bitcoin to a hardware wallet that he bought.

Another reason of piling your funds in an exchange to a particular about from $500 and above is to safe you the cost of paying high transaction fee in future due to too many small small transactions. You can learn a good UTXO management as you go.

[Sticky Bomb]

[edited out]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

It's regrettable but most bitcoin hater are hating on it over some kind of misunderstanding, most were scammed and the scammer probably told them they were buying bitcoin so after that experience they see anything related to bitcoin as some kind of a scam, their reasons I can understand even though a bit of investigation will clear that mindset out of them, what I can't understand are those that don't trust bitcoin just because, falsely pushing their own insecurities on bitcoin, when it got to $120k they told themselves it was too expensive, now they are telling themselves that for something that once got to $126k to now be around $60 then it can't be trustworthy, people like this will just keep using any excuse they can find to not invest in bitcoin.

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

You should not convince anyone to buy bitcoin, you can introduce bitcoin to them and allow them to decide on their own if they should invest. It is normal to have low confidence in bitcoin when you first get into it and if such an investor is not yet fully convinced, but have some interest  to invest, then they should start small as long as they have discretionary income and know how to buy. If they start small and attempt remaining consistent for a while, chances are that they would build more confidence in it overtime and choose to increase their investment amount into bitcoin, still from their discretionary income.

It is not advisable to spend a whole lot of time learning about bitcoin, learning is important, but why spend a lot of time learning as a spectator when you can already start buying with small amounts while you continue your learning and building your confidence in it. It is a wiser decision to consistently buy and hold bitcoin while you advance your knowledge into it, at least it helps you understand the concepts better since you are spending time learning while into it rather than outside of it.

[Brizi5000]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

You are obviously mixing a lot of things up especially with the DCA method. The DCA method requires regularity  in terms of when to huy and how much to invest per time. If you have irregular cash flow,  you can still use the DCA method but that will require making estimates based on average of your income flow for a period of six months or even a year. With this you will be able to have an estimate of your discretionary income from there you will know what to allocate to your monthly or weekly DCA. It is not complicated and there are many people with irregular cash flow that are using this method.

You seem to be making a simple DCA buying strategy looks very ambiguous whereas the goal is to enable investors to invest according to their own pace in terms of when they’re able to figure out a discretionary income for use in buying bitcoin and hold. Regularity is different from consistency even though the both of them are closely related, being regular means that you must be investing  exactly at a certain uniform time interval which for me I think it’s likely going to be problematic for most investors to do so as a result of unstable economic or financial conditions. It’s going to be also very problematic to accurately make the right estimate of how much discretionary income you will want to allocate to bitcoin investments if you’re yet to successfully sort out your basic financial needs considering the fact that the economic situations of most areas are very unstable such that the price of goods and other basic essential commodities are very unstable.

Discretionary income is the main cash used for investing In bitcoin and in order to figure out this discretionary income you have to first of all sort out all your basic needs and then the money left with you (discretionary income) is what to use in investing in bitcoin. So, instead of making things difficult for yourself trying to estimate, it is better to make things more easier by focusing on sorting out your basic needs first and when you’re done with that it will be more easier to figure out a discretionary income to use and invest In bitcoin. You don’t have to force yourself to invest as you can buy bitcoin at anytime, week or month that you’re able to figure out a discretionary income and that’s exactly what the DCA does for an investor.

[Creeper0]

I agree with your main point that irregular income does not make DCA impossible. But the main point is that you have discretionary income after meeting all your essential expenses. Whenever you have that extra money, you can buy Bitcoin according to your DCA plan. However, the phrase "buy in a good month, not a bad month" can seem a bit confusing to everyone and to beginners. Basically, the basis of DCA should not be judging the market or month as good or bad, but rather whether you have discretionary income.
The money that is left after ensuring all your essential expenses and emergency funds. It is not unusual to take a break if you do not have extra money in a month. Again, when you have extra money, you should resume buying according to the plan. Even if you have irregular income, even if income is irregular, it is most important to be consistent with the DCA plan in the long term.

How irregular is your income? DCA is suitable for people with any type of income source. If necessary, you can do a monthly DCA, if the income source is more irregular, then do a quarterly DCA, if it is more irregular, then do a half-yearly DCA, or buy whenever you have discretionary money. There is no obligation to buy the same amount at the same time, the main obligation is to invest consistently. Generally, quarterly DCA is more suitable for those with high irregular income sources, you can also do a bi-monthly DCA if you want.

One thing I would like to say for your correction is that the emergency fund should be included in the discretionary fund. Keep money for your daily essential expenses and consider the rest of the money as discretionary money, invest some of it and include some of it for the backup fund which will have other necessary funds including the emergency fund. When the money is needed in the fund, then put money in that fund.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

What is the basic knowledge that you proclaim to be necessary before getting started investing in bitcoin?  Is there anything that such bitcoin newbie needs to know besides how much discretionary income that he has available and knowing from where he is going to buy his first bitcoins (satoshis)?

[edited out]

Now you have addressed what I have been trying to point. You faced those who can and can't. You also faced those who can't actually increase as result in deeping into their Bitcoin reserves. Sure at the end, one must find a way to increase their income in other not to take from their Bitcoin investment. But in the meantime that the face of inflation steps in, would the person now stop investing even though he or she can still survive the face but the investment will slightly reduce pending when he or she gets back on their feet? No. Investment will still continue. And that is were I was driving at. At the end, the increment of income has to be initiated to avoid deeping hands into the Bitcoin investment.

You express the matter as if there were only one route forward, when that is not true. Many times bitcoin investors are going to be faced with a fairly wide-range array of possible ways to manage their bitcoin investment along side with their competing expenses and/or other cashflow management concerns.

There may well be preferences for the investor to try to invest into bitcoin every single week no matter what, so maybe he even sets a budget aside in order to buy bitcoin each week no matter what, yet even if he sets such priority for himself to buy bitcoin every week, he could end up experiencing lowering of income, increase in expenses and/or even depleting of his back up funds so that at some point he cannot continue to buy bitcoin each week, and if the situation gets even worse, he might have to dip into his bitcoin at a time that is not of his own choosing.

Ultimately, it is up to each of us to manage those kinds of situations, and likely the difficulties are more intense in the earliest years of building the bitcoin investment and/or strengthening the back ups and the cashflow management.  

If guys screw up due to their own avoidable mistakes then they have to live with the consequences of their mistakes, so they have to figure out some balance  that is comfortable for them, while at the same time, we know that no one can exactly foresee the future, and yeah, increases in cost of living can sometimes be too much to deal with (financially and/or emotionally).

I check your trend out about price-based and time-based sustainable withdrawal. You surely put in some hard work into that. I would take my time to digest that. Thanks for the clarity.

Let me know if you have any questions about either of those, and yeah if a guy is still in his early bitcoin accumulation stages, then the concepts of sustainable withdrawal might still be quite a ways into the future, even though it still could be helpful for newbies (or even for guys in the midst of their bitcoin accumulation journey) to review those sustainable withdrawal ideas in order to attempt to be able to plan how to get to a point of overaccumulation in which one or the other of those sustainable withdrawal techniques might start to become applicable.

Even though I tend to prefer to use the 200-WMA for valuating bitcoin holdings, guys also may well come to different conclusions in terms of figuring out their bitcoin valuations and figuring out at what point(s) they might consider themselves to have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.

[edited out]

I agree with your main point that irregular income does not make DCA impossible. But the main point is that you have discretionary income after meeting all your essential expenses. Whenever you have that extra money, you can buy Bitcoin according to your DCA plan. However, the phrase "buy in a good month, not a bad month" can seem a bit confusing to everyone and to beginners. Basically, the basis of DCA should not be judging the market or month as good or bad, but rather whether you have discretionary income.
The money that is left after ensuring all your essential expenses and emergency funds.

You don't seem to understand discretionary income.  Discretionary income is money left after essential expenses.  You can use discretionary income for investing, savings (emergency funds) and/or discretionary consumption.

Sure, your investment and your savings may well grow with the passage of time, yet each of those funds were built from discretionary funds.  Emergency funds do not have a higher ranking than investing. The rankings are choices, which is the meaning of discretionary. Discretionary means that you can choose with how to use it.  You can choose to invest, save and/or discretionarily consume.

It is not unusual to take a break if you do not have extra money in a month. Again, when you have extra money, you should resume buying according to the plan. Even if you have irregular income, even if income is irregular, it is most important to be consistent with the DCA plan in the long term.

Yes.  Income and/or basic expenses will likely vary from week to week and from month to month, and there could be some pay periods that it is not practical (or chosen) to buy bitcoin with whatever amount of discretionary funds that might be available... and some weeks/months there might be needs to tap into back up funds (that had been built up from prior discretionary funds) in order to pay for basic expenses, and hopefully the back up funds do not end up getting so depleted that there are no funds left and thereby having to tap into bitcoin at a time that may not be of ones own choosing.

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting.

Huh?  What is this basic knowledge that you fantasize about being necessary before getting started investing in bitcoin?  

Tell us:  Is there anything that such bitcoin newbie needs to know besides how much discretionary income that he has available and knowing from where he is going to buy his first bitcoins (satoshis)?

Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

Oh?  You have a list of supposed basics.  What is it about number 2 that seems strange?  Isn't number 2 related to number 1?  If you know from where you are going to get your first bitcoin, then somehow number 2 would be related to number 1, right?  Maybe you need to explain both number 1 and number 2 and why they cannot be just left up to the bitcoin newbie to figure out how much he needs in regards to either of those after he knows that he has to figure out from where he is going to first source is first bitcoin/satoshis?

What is it that guys need to now about 3?  bitcoin is volatile?  o.k. can a guy look at the chart and see that it is volatile?  What is it that guys need to know about bitcoin's volatility before starting?

At the end of 4, you mention "etc."  Is there more to know before starting, from your perspective?
 

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

From my perspective, you seem to be imposing somewhat vague requirements and acting as if there is some mystery and secret knowledge related to bitcoin without adequately emphasizing the importance of getting started and for guys to figure out on their own how to adjust their position size (perhaps more conservatively) as they are getting started buying bitcoin.  Bitcoin newbies should be able to make these various basic kinds of judgements about what they need or don't need as long as they meet the basic requirements to assure they have enough discretionary funds available that they can get started and also probably having some comfort from wherever they are first starting to buy their first bitcoin.  

[edited out]

Hope you understand me now? I made this so you won't misquote me when you reply me.

Sometimes, in a thread like this one, we have to repeat ourselves to either make our points clear and/or to respond to various issues that might relate to points that we are discussing.  It should not be considered unusual that guys might sometimes go back on similar points before figuring out their areas of agreement/disagreement.  Part of the reason that we are on a forum like this (and even within a thread like this) is so that we can bat around ideas, and sometimes we might not agree about the underlying substance, and other times we might not agree about how another member expresses his points (or fails to express certain points).  

[edited out]

One thing I would like to say for your correction is that the emergency fund should be included in the discretionary fund. Keep money for your daily essential expenses and consider the rest of the money as discretionary money, invest some of it and include some of it for the backup fund which will have other necessary funds including the emergency fund. When the money is needed in the fund, then put money in that fund.

The three ways to use discretionary funds is to invest, save and/or discretionarily consume.

"Savings" refers to back up funds, emergency funds and/or reserve funds.  Of course, each person might categorize or label their various savings and/or back up funds differently depending on the purpose of the funds and the reasons for keeping them.. but they still all fit under the same savings category within the three options in how to use discretionary funds for investing, savings and/or discretionary consumption.

[Grease5000]

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

You don't need to become an experience investor or a Bitcoin expert before you start investing. All you need is a basic understanding of how to buy Bitcoin, how to store and  to protect it, and only invest  using your discretionary income.

And it's important to start with whatever amount of discretionary income you have while at the same gradually building your emergency fund along side. Because waiting to have enough discretionary income or a perfect emergency fund can delay someone from starting their journey of Accumulating Bitcoin.   

I believe with the right mindset and basic knowledge, a person can start small, learn along the way, and continue improving their financial situation over time.

[Saltysugar99]

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

You don't need to become an experience investor or a Bitcoin expert before you start investing. All you need is a basic understanding of how to buy Bitcoin, how to store and  to protect it, and only invest  using your discretionary income.

And it's important to start with whatever amount of discretionary income you have while at the same gradually building your emergency fund along side. Because waiting to have enough discretionary income or a perfect emergency fund can delay someone from starting their journey of Accumulating Bitcoin.   

I believe with the right mindset and basic knowledge, a person can start small, learn along the way, and continue improving their financial situation over time.

The points that Bigjoe33 mentioned also within basic knowledge. It would not be right to think that outside basic knowledge. Rather, these are the most useful for a beginner before starting Bitcoin investment. A new investor does not need to understand cryptography, node operation, technical side. But where to buy Bitcoin, how to avoid scam platforms, how to keep your coins safe, understanding Bitcoin volatile assets are all part of basic knowledge. If you only have the desire and extra money, you should start investing, without any kind of planning, then the investment activity may not last long. A beginner's basic knowledge means that he will at least understand that Bitcoin is not a guaranteed profit machine, that it will not make him short-term quick rich, and that the price will fluctuate. If he buys today and expects a profit tomorrow, then he is not investing, he is getting into a trading mindset and starting to buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin investment requires a mindset of 4-10 years or more. To do this, the mindset has to be fixed at the beginning and this will be possible with some basic knowledge. Just having discretionary income and a desire to buy will not do. Grease5000 You have made a good point that you do not need to be an experienced investor or a Bitcoin expert before investing. It is logical to start investing after knowing the things you need to know above and not waste a lot of time trying to understand all these things which will delay starting your Bitcoin investment.

[JayJuanGee]

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

You don't need to become an experience investor or a Bitcoin expert before you start investing. All you need is a basic understanding of how to buy Bitcoin, how to store and  to protect it, and only invest  using your discretionary income.

And it's important to start with whatever amount of discretionary income you have while at the same gradually building your emergency fund along side. Because waiting to have enough discretionary income or a perfect emergency fund can delay someone from starting their journey of Accumulating Bitcoin.   

I believe with the right mindset and basic knowledge, a person can start small, learn along the way, and continue improving their financial situation over time.

The points that Bigjoe33 mentioned also within basic knowledge. It would not be right to think that outside basic knowledge. Rather, these are the most useful for a beginner before starting Bitcoin investment. A new investor does not need to understand cryptography, node operation, technical side. But where to buy Bitcoin, how to avoid scam platforms, how to keep your coins safe, understanding Bitcoin volatile assets are all part of basic knowledge. If you only have the desire and extra money, you should start investing, without any kind of planning, then the investment activity may not last long. A beginner's basic knowledge means that he will at least understand that Bitcoin is not a guaranteed profit machine, that it will not make him short-term quick rich, and that the price will fluctuate. If he buys today and expects a profit tomorrow, then he is not investing, he is getting into a trading mindset and starting to buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin investment requires a mindset of 4-10 years or more. To do this, the mindset has to be fixed at the beginning and this will be possible with some basic knowledge. Just having discretionary income and a desire to buy will not do. Grease5000 You have made a good point that you do not need to be an experienced investor or a Bitcoin expert before investing. It is logical to start investing after knowing the things you need to know above and not waste a lot of time trying to understand all these things which will delay starting your Bitcoin investment.

A beginner bitcoin investor does not need to know all of the things that you mention in order to get started buying bitcoin. 

As many of us repeatedly emphasize, including myself since this is a thread about my ideas about bitcoin investing, a guy only needs to be able to determine that he has discretionary funds in order to get started, and he can figure out for himself if he needs to learn anything else before starting or to learn those matters along the way.  I don't know why I need to keep repeating this point, and guys keep coming up with lists of basic requirements that they want to impose on others. 

Sure, if any guy believes he needs to learn the various list of matters, that is his choice, but they are not required to get started, and they also might delay him in getting started since getting started is an important thing to accomplish since it will help to guide the learning, and surely as several of us also suggest (including yours truly) that guys can purposefully lower their starting out amount as they are learning and planning whatever various matters they believe they need to understand in order to get started.

I am not going to pick your list apart one by one, since it is getting quite repetitive and a seeming waste of time, yet I will mention in regards to the 4-10 year or longer time horizon, beginners may well not have an ability or a desire to commit to 4-10 years or longer when they get started buying bitcoin, and likely they will develop that understanding as they are buying and investing in bitcoin.  They can still get started and come to that realization that investing is 4-10 years or longer, and that bitcoin is better as an investment and not good as a trade... so guys might not realize or accept that idea when they get started buying bitcoin.

[johnsaributua]

Yes, because they seem to be waiting for the market price to decline. They believe that a price drop on the one hand is very profitable because they gain more value from accumulating Bitcoin, so they wait for the market price to decline because they are very confident in their Bitcoin investment.

I don't think it's very smart for a bitcoin investor to wait for a DIP before buying, the only time waiting for a dip makes sense is when the investor has already hit over-accumulation, beyond that point it's completely their choice how they want to progress with their accumulation, they can even stop completing if they want to, but for someone who's still very much in their accumulation phase there is no good reason to wait for a DIP before they can buy bitcoin, the best thing to do is to accumulate with the DCA, buying whenever they can, dip or not.

This is very true of what you said. They wait for the price to drop because they already have a large amount, so we could say they're just watching it. This doesn't mean they don't want to buy when the price is dropping, but their large holdings prevent them from being too tempted to increase their Bitcoin holdings even when the market is declining.

And what I mean by yesterday's question is only directed at those whose financial resources are not classified as much, meaning that the income they get from buying Bitcoin is not the same as the income that Bitcoin investors have, so in my opinion, it is better for them to do it by reducing the price as part of what they have to do in waiting to accumulate Bitcoin with the amount they have.

[ZeroVinsonN]

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

I think you are putting too much weight to something that's not that big, what we need to start investing in bitcoin is a discretionary income, once that has been figured out anyone with interest in bitcoin investment can start investing in it, common sense will tell a person what they need to do to be able to invest seeing as bitcoin investment is long term it's only natural to use your discretionary income, plus what asset out there isn't actually volatile? They all are to a certain degree and you definitely don't need to how to keep your asset protected before you can start buying.

[Alonso_]

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

I think you are putting too much weight to something that's not that big, what we need to start investing in bitcoin is a discretionary income, once that has been figured out anyone with interest in bitcoin investment can start investing in it, common sense will tell a person what they need to do to be able to invest seeing as bitcoin investment is long term it's only natural to use your discretionary income, plus what asset out there isn't actually volatile? They all are to a certain degree and you definitely don't need to how to keep your asset protected before you can start buying.

You’ve said it all, sometimes I really wonder why people emphasize so much on basic knowledge, I feel if someone already figured out their discretionary income they should be well equipped to start investing in Bitcoin immediately, there is nothing much in basic knowledge, knowing how and where to buy your bitcoin, and where to keep our Bitcoin safe, as soon as you have a discretionary income you can start up investing in Bitcoin as soon as possible, if you don’t get started with investing in Bitcoin you might end up not having experience, you can only learn and grow when you have started buying Bitcoin, there is a popular saying that goes, experience is the best teacher, basic knowledge isn’t a criteria to get started with investing in Bitcoin.

[Rabata]

The points that Bigjoe33 mentioned also within basic knowledge. It would not be right to think that outside basic knowledge. Rather, these are the most useful for a beginner before starting Bitcoin investment. A new investor does not need to understand cryptography, node operation, technical side. But where to buy Bitcoin, how to avoid scam platforms, how to keep your coins safe, understanding Bitcoin volatile assets are all part of basic knowledge.

While learning the things you mentioned is important, it is not a mandatory condition before starting to buy. If a new investor waits to learn the things you mentioned, it may be just an excuse for him. If someone is not yet aware of his safety and security but has discretionary income in hand, he can feel free to start from the exchange and continue saving in small amounts and later transfer to his own wallet. Here I cannot say specifically how long or how much he will save on the exchange. It depends on his own preparation. Until he is ready about his safety and security, he can use the exchange and continue learning. When he is sure of his safety and is aware of the wallet, he will transfer to his own wallet. There is nothing wrong with starting from the exchange during the learning stage. But using the excuse of not starting to learn can ultimately waste time.

[The Founding Titan]

Sure, we need at least a basic knowledge about Bitcoin before starting. Like you mentioned, just the basics because we can't really know so many or learn all before starting. Such basics may include, 1) knowing where and how to buy. 2)how to save or store your investment safe(protecting your BTC). 3)know that Bitcoin is a volatile assets and is always fluctuating. 4)then also know that we should always buy with there discretionary income, etc.

With these little knowledge and information, I think one can start his investment with his available discretionary income and begin his investment while also building up his back up funds as possible since they are necessary tools for having a long term investment plan

You don't need to become an experience investor or a Bitcoin expert before you start investing. All you need is a basic understanding of how to buy Bitcoin, how to store and  to protect it, and only invest  using your discretionary income.

And it's important to start with whatever amount of discretionary income you have while at the same gradually building your emergency fund along side. Because waiting to have enough discretionary income or a perfect emergency fund can delay someone from starting their journey of Accumulating Bitcoin.   

I beqlieve with the right mindset and basic knowledge, a person can start small, learn along the way, and continue improving their financial situation over time.

There is only one way to have any sort of experience as a bitcoin investor and that's to actually start investing, everything else can be considered secondary so as long as you've figured out your discretionary because at the end of the day your discretionary income is the most important thing you need to have as an investor.
If a newbie wants to start buying bitcoin they should make sure to figure out their discretionary income, once that's done they can start buying bitcoin from there, for their own good they should make sure to keep it on the small side, there is no reason to rush into being aggressive right from the start.