JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

It seems you misunderstood me and went ahead to define Discretionary income. My main point was different and you didn't even address it. I was pointing out that during inflation periods, living expenses increase. That is why people adjust their budget. Budget adjustment will also affect discretionary income. And moreover, not everyone income increases as the pace of inflation. And that doesn't mean they cannot afford sharing allocated income for investment. That's the point I was making.

You guys seem to be making similar points, and Sim_card seems to have had addressed your earlier point, which is that if you do not have discretionary income you cannot buy bitcoin, otherwise you would be gambling and/or trading rather than investing.

Sim_card also mentioned that he thinks that the best way to try to address rises in the cost of living is to try to raise your income equally or greater so that you can continue to buy bitcoin and improve your standard of living.

Of course, we know that some people might be stuck in situations where they are not really able to increase their income, so they might have to cut some of their costs, yet still the same point is that if they cannot figure out ways to have discretionary funds, then they won't be able to buy bitcoin.

Furthermore if they are starting to deplete any back up funds that they might have based on increases in the cost of living, then they might deplete themselves down to a point that they have to start to tap into their bitcoin investment, and surely if they had not gotten their bitcoin up to a high enough amount then they might start working backwards in terms of their goals or their abilities to meet  their goals.

Surely as folks get older sometimes they might either not be able to increase their income or they might be in situations in which they are receiving fixed incomes that may well not keep up with the raises in the cost of living, so then at some point they might no longer be able to accumulate more bitcoin and they have to figure out ways to start to live off of the bitcoin or at least supplement whatever income that they have with the bitcoin that they have, and so then at that point, there may well be hopes that the person had gotten to a point of accumulation that he has enough bitcoin or even more than enough bitcoin in order to start to either live off of the bitcoin completely or to supplement whatever other sources of income that he had happened to have at that time.

I talk about price-based and time-based sustainable withdrawal in my sustainable withdrawal thread.

You also make mention of dividing money as you like and calling one part discretionary income. You are just misunderstanding me from your reply from the top to finish. What do I mean by allocating funds to different boards and one of them can be discretionary income. Different boards can be food, travel, family, health and so on. That's the board I was referring to. Is that now anyhow dividing of funds? I'll leave you to answer that.

I did not see any confusion in what Sim_card was saying, but maybe I am too caught up in the repetition of these seemingly basic ideas that many of the active participants in these various investment and/or cashflow management threads seem to understand fairly well.

Sim_card already said that discretionary income are the funds that are remaining after a person accounts for all of their basic expenses... so if you have basic expenses that exceed your income, then you are not going to have discretionary income, and you may well  have to use any other saved funds that you have in order to meet those basic expenses.

some expenses are more basic than others, so sometimes if guys are not sufficiently distinguishing between needs and wants then they might be coming to wrong calculations regarding the extent to which they have discretionary income and/or how much their discretionary income is.

And, yeah, discretionary income can vary every week, and some guys might not be paid on a weekly basis, so they may well have to make sure that they have money left after a month, when the income and/or bills for the month might be resolved.

I personally try to encourage guys to build up systems so that they can buy bitcoin every week no matter what, yet surely I understand that the lower the discretionary income and even the more uncertain the income and/or expenses, then the more difficult it might be to have funds set aside to be able to buy bitcoin every week no matter what.

In the end, guys have to figure out systems that work out for them, and if you, Exitoral, are complaining that you don't have enough discretionary fund, then maybe you should not be buying any bitcoin until you can increase your income and/or decrease your expenses. 

Since many of us are prioritizing investing in bitcoin, we want to be able to invest in bitcoin and even to encourage others to invest in bitcoin, yet if the solid facts of the matter is that you do not have enough income in order to invest, then if you want to be able to invest in bitcoin and even to be able to hold your bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to figure out how to increase your discretionary income, and yeah, there may be some frustration in that if you are having troubles figuring out how to accomplish such based on your current personal conditions.

You are so sure as if all Bitcoiners grow in life at a good pace. Maybe in where you are from that is how it is. But you should keep an open mind and visualise the world properly. Every hands are not equal. So therefore saying one needs to grow in life before investing whereas he or her income can afford investment without problems but growth is not there. Will you now say they too shouldn't invest simply because they are not growing? And another thing. I am not referring to people who cannot invest. I see no reason why you brought up starvation.

It maybe be true that Sim_card was presuming that guys should be able to figure out ways to grow their discretionary income, even when there might be situations where guys are not able to grow their discretionary income.  The bottom line is that guys have to figure out for themselves if they are able to grow their discretionary income sufficiently to be able to invest in bitcoin, and surely many of us know that if guys cannot put aside money for 4 years or more, then they probably should not be buying bitcoin, even though bitcoin could serve as a rescue path for their situation, yet if they cannot figure out ways to set aside discretionary funds for 4-10 years or more, then they likely don't have an income that is sufficient to be buying bitcoin, since bitcoin should be treated as an investment and not a trade (or a gamble).

Of course, there are a lot of injustices in this world, including that there are a lot of people who struggle to generate discretionary funds on a regular and consistent basis which makes it difficult to sustain a bitcoin investment, even if they might be able to get started buying some bitcoin with some of their discretionary funds, it might be difficult for some folks to sustain buying bitcoin if they cannot figure out ways to continue to bring in income or to increase their personal income generating situation.

[liasbaa]

Of course, there are a lot of injustices in this world, including that there are a lot of people who struggle to generate discretionary funds on a regular and consistent basis which makes it difficult to sustain a bitcoin investment, even if they might be able to get started buying some bitcoin with some of their discretionary funds, it might be difficult for some folks to sustain buying bitcoin if they cannot figure out ways to continue to bring in income or to increase their personal income generating situation.

Buying Bitcoin is easy for some but accumulation Bitcoin on a regular basis is actually very difficult. Even if we try to earn, we cannot earn the desired amount of money. In many social systems, a person cannot meet his basic needs and that of his family. For them, investing in Bitcoin may be considered a luxury or they may be regular for a few days but soon they may face the possibility of withdrawing that small amount of funds.

It is literally unfair that many people in the world cannot accumulate money consistently. But if someone wants to continue this as luck and does not make efforts to improve their financial situation, they will be doing injustice to themselves. Despite having opportunities socially and politically, if you are lazy and do not acquire skills and cannot earn money, you will be responsible for it. The only punishment for such responsible people is poverty because they had opportunities but could not use them properly. But they should have been hardworking and consistently making money and maintaining their Bitcoin accumulation for long.

[The Founding Titan]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

You are not buying bitcoin with your income but with your discretionary income. Some people have consistent income but they don't have any discretionary income. Whereas, some people income isn't consistent but they have enough discretionary income to keep them in the bitcoin accumulation game overtime. Example of such people are contractors.

It's good to be consistent in your bitcoin accumulation to reach your target fast but you don't need to force yourself to buy bitcoin when you don't have a discretionary income at that moment. Skipping one or two buys in six months doesn't mean you ain't consistent. It becomes a problem when you have discretionary income but choose not to buy bitcoin for no reason.

Circumstances can arise and make it difficult. At the same time we can't ignore our finances just to serve an obligation of the continuous accumulation of Bitcoin. Not saying we shouldn't, but ignoring factors in the house will eventually bring that accumulation of Bitcoin to an end

That's true. There are times that your expenses will eat up your discretionary income and you will be left with nothing, you don't need to buy bitcoin that week/month until, when your discretionary income is available again the next week, you can buy again. It's a must for a long term bitcoin investor to put his basic needs and monthly expenses prior to his bitcoin investment.

You can also look for other means to increase your income in order for you to be consistent overtime so that, you can always have discretionary income to buy bitcoin till you reach your bitcoin target.

Are they not all classified as income? Yes they are. But there's the main income that allows you do split your income across board of which one of the board is discretionary income.

Moving forward, as I have clarified that. Can discretionary income remain the same in inflation period? Of course not. In as much as you said one shouldn't force himself to buy Bitcoin he or she has to adjust to keep up the pace. It's not all about increasing. What if there is no way to increase your income? Then the alternative is to adjust your income across board. Pending when you find a way to increase your income.

For an income earner one of the best ways to increase their discretionary income is to try to increase their income or to cut down on their expenses which can work in maybe taking a second job if possible or looking forward cheaper means to their livelihoods like getting things from cheaper brands.
The importance of the discretionary income to an investor is enormous, with your discretionary income you cannot keep buying bitcoin and we know that a person's discretionary income cannot always be the same, it will be high sometimes and it will be low other times too, what matters is the ability to find balance in it, your investment like your discretionary income has to be flexible to ensure that you don't end up buying outside of your discretionary income.

[amihada]

Good point. Newbies should know that bitcoin should be bought with only thier discretionary income and make sure before buying or investing into bitcoin, all thier expenses should be settled before purchasing bitcoin. These are some of the silly mistakes that many beginners made and landed themselves into regret. Because forcing thier self to invest into bitcoin without properly settling their bills is not an investment and that may creat a financial pressures, because there's no way they will not panic selling when they even needs money for common school fees. Advisable, build your incomes strongly and reduces some unnecessary spending where it's not necessary, and then have smooth investment, begins accumulating bitcoin gradually without putting yourself into high risk financial instability.

This is the most sane advice for beginners, unfortunately the point you explained is the most frequently violated. Many beginners regret it not because Bitcoin is bad, but because they bought it wrong from the start. Beginners should use the right formula before investing in Bitcoin by preparing an emergency fund, being debt-free, using the DCA strategy and a Long Time Horizon or assuming the money invested in Bitcoin has been put in the freezer for 4 years. If they use a formula like this, when Bitcoin drops 30%, they can still smile because the price is discounted, allowing them to increase their investment next week, instead of crying because they are constantly thinking about how to pay off debts or other things.

Bitcoin is an investment, not a debt solution. If beginners are forced to buy using hot money, it is no longer an investment, but gambling using pressure. Investing slowly without sacrificing stability in life is what is called being financially anti-fragile.

[Showlove01]

[edited out]

Well explained... Surely at times I think that folks mostly misunderstand your idea that you clearly stated here of them starting as soon as their discretionary income is available, and so they may end up thinking otherwise... Starting is very good because it obviously prevents a whole lot of things, things like spending a whole lot of years waiting for the perfect financial situation... Yet again, the point isn't that emergency funds has no value, or that folks can go ahead to invest recklessly.. Rather it is about ensuring that folks dont miss out on their buying opportunity.. And the truth is that emergency funds can very well be built while gradually investing, so there should be no reason for folks to keep delayin...

Getting started as soon as we can (once we figure out that we have enough of a discretionary income) does not mean that we are in a rush to FOMO into a bitcoin position, but instead to perhaps create some urgency and/or priority in organizing our finances in a way that also includes bitcoin in the mix, and surely there may be a whole hell of a lot of bitcoin newbies who have a lot of skepticisms about bitcoin, so then on purpose they end up starting out buying bitcoin in a somewhat conservative (whimpy) way, and perhaps it takes them several months, maybe even close to a year or more before they start to feel some confidence in bitcoin so that they can increase their aggressiveness levels to a more meaningful amount, yet at the same time, it is likely that they are not going to build any conviction about bitcoin without spending time buying it and also spending time studying it (as well as making sure that bitcoin fits comfortably in their understanding of their 9 individual factors).

I think this is important issue that a beginners fail to understand, starting as early doesn’t mean you should buy bitcoin out of fear thinking that you may miss the price, it simply means as a investor you should make bitcoin priority once you have your discretionary income available. A lot of beginners started with doubt, that’s perfectly normal, it’s better to start with small amount while still continuing study bitcoin than to invest without really understanding what you own, As they have the experience and keep learning, they confidence grows naturally.

Aside the owner of Bitcoin I don't think  there is any investors that invested in Bitcoin without a little doubt in their mind how the investment will look like in years or time coming and I believe it was because of that, investors are advised to always invest with their discretionary income that is the money they can actually let go if something go wrong but ever since I started investing in Bitcoin or ever since i knew Bitcoin I have not heard something went wrong any day and this is why we have more interested folks now but it is not cool to invest with money one can not let go.

[ZeroVinsonN]

[edited out]

Well explained... Surely at times I think that folks mostly misunderstand your idea that you clearly stated here of them starting as soon as their discretionary income is available, and so they may end up thinking otherwise... Starting is very good because it obviously prevents a whole lot of things, things like spending a whole lot of years waiting for the perfect financial situation... Yet again, the point isn't that emergency funds has no value, or that folks can go ahead to invest recklessly.. Rather it is about ensuring that folks dont miss out on their buying opportunity.. And the truth is that emergency funds can very well be built while gradually investing, so there should be no reason for folks to keep delayin...

Getting started as soon as we can (once we figure out that we have enough of a discretionary income) does not mean that we are in a rush to FOMO into a bitcoin position, but instead to perhaps create some urgency and/or priority in organizing our finances in a way that also includes bitcoin in the mix, and surely there may be a whole hell of a lot of bitcoin newbies who have a lot of skepticisms about bitcoin, so then on purpose they end up starting out buying bitcoin in a somewhat conservative (whimpy) way, and perhaps it takes them several months, maybe even close to a year or more before they start to feel some confidence in bitcoin so that they can increase their aggressiveness levels to a more meaningful amount, yet at the same time, it is likely that they are not going to build any conviction about bitcoin without spending time buying it and also spending time studying it (as well as making sure that bitcoin fits comfortably in their understanding of their 9 individual factors).

I think this is important issue that a beginners fail to understand, starting as early doesn’t mean you should buy bitcoin out of fear thinking that you may miss the price, it simply means as a investor you should make bitcoin priority once you have your discretionary income available. A lot of beginners started with doubt, that’s perfectly normal, it’s better to start with small amount while still continuing study bitcoin than to invest without really understanding what you own, As they have the experience and keep learning, they confidence grows naturally.

Aside the owner of Bitcoin I don't think  there is any investors that invested in Bitcoin without a little doubt in their mind how the investment will look like in years or time coming and I believe it was because of that, investors are advised to always invest with their discretionary income that is the money they can actually let go if something go wrong but ever since I started investing in Bitcoin or ever since i knew Bitcoin I have not heard something went wrong any day and this is why we have more interested folks now but it is not cool to invest with money one can not let go.

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

[JayJuanGee]

Good point. Newbies should know that bitcoin should be bought with only thier discretionary income and make sure before buying or investing into bitcoin, all thier expenses should be settled before purchasing bitcoin. These are some of the silly mistakes that many beginners made and landed themselves into regret. Because forcing thier self to invest into bitcoin without properly settling their bills is not an investment and that may creat a financial pressures, because there's no way they will not panic selling when they even needs money for common school fees. Advisable, build your incomes strongly and reduces some unnecessary spending where it's not necessary, and then have smooth investment, begins accumulating bitcoin gradually without putting yourself into high risk financial instability.

This is the most sane advice for beginners, unfortunately the point you explained is the most frequently violated. Many beginners regret it not because Bitcoin is bad, but because they bought it wrong from the start. Beginners should use the right formula before investing in Bitcoin by preparing an emergency fund, being debt-free, using the DCA strategy and a Long Time Horizon or assuming the money invested in Bitcoin has been put in the freezer for 4 years.

Beginners do not have to have an emergency fund or be debt free before starting to buy bitcoin.

As long as they have discretionary funds they can build their emergency fund as they go, and they can also work on managing their debt as they go, too.

If they use a formula like this, when Bitcoin drops 30%, they can still smile because the price is discounted, allowing them to increase their investment next week,

I don't recommend fucking around trying to time dips in the market.  Many times, especially for beginners, it is better to build up systems in which they are buying bitcoin regularly, consistently, ongoingly, persistently and perhaps even aggressively, and fucking around waiting for dips that might not happen, is not a good approach to bitcoin.

instead of crying because they are constantly thinking about how to pay off debts or other things.

How much debt a guy has can affect their discretionary income, so whether they choose to pay off debts early or not might depend on the terms of the debt, and the extent to which they still have discretionary funds even while ongoingly servicing the debt.

It is true that sometimes guys get into debt for reasons that are not justified, yet once they are in debt, they may or may not need to resolve that debt prior to getting started buying bitcoin... so for example if the debt is less than 6% annually, then maybe it is better to just keep servicing the debt under regular terms while they otherwise get their cashflow in order and also start to buy bitcoin on a weekly basis too.

I know that many times debts (especially for poor people) have terms that include interest rates that are much higher than 6 % annually, and so there may be some needs to accelerate the payments on the higher interest debts, yet here, in this thread, we are also discussing how to get into investing in bitcoin, so it may still be a good idea to get started in bitcoin buying even if a buy has high and exorbitant levels of debt... Past mistakes are not necessarily resolved by taking extreme actions in the other direction, and since we are in a bitcoin thread, there is a certain advocacy in terms of getting involved in bitcoin here.. yet if there are guys who want to provide scenarios (hypotheticals) in which it might make sense to pay off debt before getting started buying bitcoin, then I would not mind hearing about those kinds of hypotheticals since we all know that if guys have expenses that are drowning out his income, then he may well not be in a position to be buying bitcoin until he can get his income to amounts that are higher than his basic expenses.

Bitcoin is an investment, not a debt solution. If beginners are forced to buy using hot money, it is no longer an investment, but gambling using pressure. Investing slowly without sacrificing stability in life is what is called being financially anti-fragile.

You are assuming that debt puts a person into a situation of not having discretionary income to be able to buy bitcoin?

Also, yes, since you keep mentioning debt, then maybe you want to describe some debt situations that you believe to be problematic and needing to be resolved prior to getting started buying bitcoin.  Maybe you also want to describe how such hypothetical person got into such seeming oppressive debt situation in the first place?

[edited out]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

[ZeroVinsonN]

[edited out]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

It's regrettable but most bitcoin hater are hating on it over some kind of misunderstanding, most were scammed and the scammer probably told them they were buying bitcoin so after that experience they see anything related to bitcoin as some kind of a scam, their reasons I can understand even though a bit of investigation will clear that mindset out of them, what I can't understand are those that don't trust bitcoin just because, falsely pushing their own insecurities on bitcoin, when it got to $120k they told themselves it was too expensive, now they are telling themselves that for something that once got to $126k to now be around $60 then it can't be trustworthy, people like this will just keep using any excuse they can find to not invest in bitcoin.

[Nwaswago]

[edited out]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

It's regrettable but most bitcoin hater are hating on it over some kind of misunderstanding, most were scammed and the scammer probably told them they were buying bitcoin so after that experience they see anything related to bitcoin as some kind of a scam, their reasons I can understand even though a bit of investigation will clear that mindset out of them, what I can't understand are those that don't trust bitcoin just because, falsely pushing their own insecurities on bitcoin, when it got to $120k they told themselves it was too expensive, now they are telling themselves that for something that once got to $126k to now be around $60 then it can't be trustworthy, people like this will just keep using any excuse they can find to not invest in bitcoin.

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

[Grease5000]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

[Sonia_123]

Of course, there are a lot of injustices in this world, including that there are a lot of people who struggle to generate discretionary funds on a regular and consistent basis which makes it difficult to sustain a bitcoin investment, even if they might be able to get started buying some bitcoin with some of their discretionary funds, it might be difficult for some folks to sustain buying bitcoin if they cannot figure out ways to continue to bring in income or to increase their personal income generating situation.

Buying Bitcoin is easy for some but accumulation Bitcoin on a regular basis is actually very difficult. Even if we try to earn, we cannot earn the desired amount of money. In many social systems, a person cannot meet his basic needs and that of his family. For them, investing in Bitcoin may be considered a luxury or they may be regular for a few days but soon they may face the possibility of withdrawing that small amount of funds.

It is literally unfair that many people in the world cannot accumulate money consistently. But if someone wants to continue this as luck and does not make efforts to improve their financial situation, they will be doing injustice to themselves. Despite having opportunities socially and politically, if you are lazy and do not acquire skills and cannot earn money, you will be responsible for it. The only punishment for such responsible people is poverty because they had opportunities but could not use them properly. But they should have been hardworking and consistently making money and maintaining their Bitcoin accumulation for long.

It is very easy to have opportunity but difficult to be able to see it, understand the opportunity and use it wisely, some persons never really take Bitcoin serious, they think it's just a mere game like gambling and seeing Bitcoin that it will no longer be in existence and so don't want geopadise their future or to even try and invest it it and that is why I love Bitcoin because it doesn't force anyone to invest, only time will tell by then it will be to late, they will all be in regrets, therefore for those investors that are opportune to accept and invest in bitcoin should always not forget to invest with their discretionary income and avoid selling at every point in time so that you can get to your overaccumulation stage as at your target.

[johnsaributua]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

This idea is more about someone's belief in what's happening with Bitcoin. It's clear, as you said that for them the current price drop is a good opportunity to make purchases with the goal of increasing their assets for the future.

And for those who are less confident in Bitcoin, the market price drop will certainly be a problem for them as they believe this market price drop could be a disaster for their Bitcoin investment. So I think this is a very flawed idea because no one knows what will happen in market conditions, whether it will decrease or increase. It all depends on our beliefs and how we interpret our beliefs about Bitcoin investment.

Yes, because they seem to be waiting for the market price to decline. They believe that a price drop on the one hand is very profitable because they gain more value from accumulating Bitcoin, so they wait for the market price to decline because they are very confident in their Bitcoin investment.

[The Founding Titan]

Let's look at it from this angle. If consistency is very important, what if someone's income is not consistent? That can be a problem. We can't all be always be financially capable to continuously buying Bitcoin all the time.

I think you made a very good point here, But I don't think inconsistent income  makes accumulating bitcoin for the long term impossible, because with the  help of the DCA strategy someone doesn't have to buy  the same amount of bitcoin every week or months. Because someone with irregular income  can buy when they have discretionary income  and pause when  they don't have. For example a freelancer  can invest during a good month and nothing during a bad one. The most important is to invest using only discretionary income and not money meant for essential needs.

For me, consistency here means returning to the plan whenever your finances allows you  and not investing the same amount.

A consistent income is more of less the same as a steady income and as far as I am concerned not having a consistent income doesn't mean not having a good income, there are people whose income doesn't come in a fixed pattern with some paychecks being higher than others and the time between each paycheck isn't also consistent where they could get paid twice in 1 week and not get paid again for a month, for someone like this what matters is whether or not they can generate discretionary income, as long as they can generate discretionary income they can invest in bitcoin.

[Silikiem]

[edited out]

You haven't seen anything wrong because you believe that bitcoin will keep being successful, those people who doubt it do so because they don't also believe in it as well, from the perspective of someone who doubt bitcoin this DIP we are in right now will classified as something wrong, for someone who trusts bitcoin it is an opportunity to buy more and that's just how life is, when people don't trust something they will see everything wrong with it no matter how much it shows that it is trustworthy.

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

It's regrettable but most bitcoin hater are hating on it over some kind of misunderstanding, most were scammed and the scammer probably told them they were buying bitcoin so after that experience they see anything related to bitcoin as some kind of a scam, their reasons I can understand even though a bit of investigation will clear that mindset out of them, what I can't understand are those that don't trust bitcoin just because, falsely pushing their own insecurities on bitcoin, when it got to $120k they told themselves it was too expensive, now they are telling themselves that for something that once got to $126k to now be around $60 then it can't be trustworthy, people like this will just keep using any excuse they can find to not invest in bitcoin.

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

You have a good point, but i think the major problem here is expecting a quick gains. Once they are able to understand that bitcoin is a long term investment and not a get rich quick scheme and at such it’s important that they should use a discretionary income to invest with so that they won’t be needing the money anytime soon especially for their basic needs. The idea is to encourage them to invest with not more than what they can afford to lose. Learning about bitcoin is good, but they shouldn’t waste time trying to learn everything because they can’t know everything In bitcoin, for sure, they will need to have a basic knowledge of bitcoin which is fair enough for anyone who so desire to invest in bitcoin to at least get started if their discretionary income is available and not to delay getting started because of wanting to learn about bitcoin as they can always get to learn many things along the line from their experience while accumulating and investing in bitcoin. For sure, we don’t have to convince anyone to invest In bitcoin, but we can only share quiet information when being approached for such, which I think the idea should be they should invest with a discretionary income at their own pace, based on their level of risk tolerance.

[Grease5000]

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

You are right to a certain point, but let not forget that one of the major problems most new investors face when they start buying bitcoin is their mindset and perspective towards  bitcoin or how it really  works, most  come in with the intention of making quick profit, hoping dey can determine the direction of the market. When you don't know anything about discretionary income, emergency fund, the DCA or Lump sum strategy of accumulating bitcoin you may end using the money meant for essentials need and daily life needs and that's where the problem  begins.

Also let not forget how most people get carried away whenever they come across  an unusual investment scheme promising quick and high returns, most jump without learning how the  asset they are investing work or without making  research  to know if it's really worth it  investing in.

This is why I believe investing is not just about having money to invest. It is also about having the right knowledge, mindset, and strategy. Before putting your money into any investment.

[ZeroVinsonN]

Yes, because they seem to be waiting for the market price to decline. They believe that a price drop on the one hand is very profitable because they gain more value from accumulating Bitcoin, so they wait for the market price to decline because they are very confident in their Bitcoin investment.

I don't think it's very smart for a bitcoin investor to wait for a DIP before buying, the only time waiting for a dip makes sense is when the investor has already hit over-accumulation, beyond that point it's completely their choice how they want to progress with their accumulation, they can even stop completing if they want to, but for someone who's still very much in their accumulation phase there is no good reason to wait for a DIP before they can buy bitcoin, the best thing to do is to accumulate with the DCA, buying whenever they can, dip or not.

[Stive009]

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

You are right to a certain point, but let not forget that one of the major problems most new investors face when they start buying bitcoin is their mindset and perspective towards  bitcoin or how it really  works, most  come in with the intention of making quick profit, hoping dey can determine the direction of the market. When you don't know anything about discretionary income, emergency fund, the DCA or Lump sum strategy of accumulating bitcoin you may end using the money meant for essentials need and daily life needs and that's where the problem  begins.

Also let not forget how most people get carried away whenever they come across  an unusual investment scheme promising quick and high returns, most jump without learning how the  asset they are investing work or without making  research  to know if it's really worth it  investing in.

This is why I believe investing is not just about having money to invest. It is also about having the right knowledge, mindset, and strategy. Before putting your money into any investment.

I agree that many people may make the wrong decision if they start investing in Bitcoin without the right mindset, basic knowledge and financial planning. however in my opinion the biggest problem for new investors is not the lack of knowledge But rather the inability to understand which knowledge to learn first. Many people spend a lot of time analyzing charts and predicting bull markets or short term price movements, but ignore the need to evaluate their own financial situation.
In my opinion there are a few things that should be clearly understood before starting to invest in Bitcoin. First the money that will be invested must be discretionary income, not money set aside for daily needs or urgent expenses. Second having an emergency fund reduces the pressure to sell bitcoin due to sudden financial problems. Third choosing a DCA strategy and making it consistent with one's financial capabilities.
To me knowledge in investing means not only knowing how Bitcoin works but also knowing one's limitations. If someone knows a lot about Bitcoin but invests money that he will need in the next month that knowledge will not be of much use in reality. On the other hand a person may not know everything technically, but if he saves regularly according to his ability follows the plan patiently and avoids unnecessary risks, then his chances of success in the long run are much higher.

In my opinion the basis of successful Bitcoin investment is to create a plan that can be followed not only in good markets, but also in bad ones. Because market fluctuations are not in our control but our saving habits, spending control and investment discipline are completely in our own hands. I think these are the things that usually have the greatest impact on the results in the long run.

[Nwaswago]

I think skepticism about Bitcoin is normal, especially for people who are new to it or have only heard different negative stories. there's a difference between healthy skepticism and dismissing Bitcoin without taking the time to understand how it works.
Some people lose trust because they entered during a bull market expecting quick profits and were disappointed by the first major correction. Others have been exposed to scams that falsely claimed to be Bitcoin investments, which unfairly shapes their opinion of Bitcoin itself.
Rather than trying to convince everyone to buy, I think the better approach is to encourage people to learn first. Once someone understands Bitcoin's purpose, its fixed supply, and why it is so volatile, they can decide whether it fits their financial goals.

You are right to a certain point, but let not forget that one of the major problems most new investors face when they start buying bitcoin is their mindset and perspective towards  bitcoin or how it really  works, most  come in with the intention of making quick profit, hoping dey can determine the direction of the market. When you don't know anything about discretionary income, emergency fund, the DCA or Lump sum strategy of accumulating bitcoin you may end using the money meant for essentials need and daily life needs and that's where the problem  begins.

Also let not forget how most people get carried away whenever they come across  an unusual investment scheme promising quick and high returns, most jump without learning how the  asset they are investing work or without making  research  to know if it's really worth it  investing in.

This is why I believe investing is not just about having money to invest. It is also about having the right knowledge, mindset, and strategy. Before putting your money into any investment.

I agree with your point that knowledge, mindset, and financial discipline are just as important as having money to invest. I also think many beginners focus too much on choosing between DCA and lump-sum investing, when the more important question is whether their financial situation can support either strategy.Someone who invests with money meant for rent, bills, or emergencies will likely panic during market corrections regardless of the strategy they choose. On the other hand, someone who invests only discretionary income and understands Bitcoin's volatility is more likely to stay committed to their long-term plan.That's why I believe basic knowledge should come before investment.

[Exitoral]

[edited out]

It seems you misunderstood me and went ahead to define Discretionary income. My main point was different and you didn't even address it. I was pointing out that during inflation periods, living expenses increase. That is why people adjust their budget. Budget adjustment will also affect discretionary income. And moreover, not everyone income increases as the pace of inflation. And that doesn't mean they cannot afford sharing allocated income for investment. That's the point I was making.

You guys seem to be making similar points, and Sim_card seems to have had addressed your earlier point, which is that if you do not have discretionary income you cannot buy bitcoin, otherwise you would be gambling and/or trading rather than investing.

Sim_card also mentioned that he thinks that the best way to try to address rises in the cost of living is to try to raise your income equally or greater so that you can continue to buy bitcoin and improve your standard of living.

Of course, we know that some people might be stuck in situations where they are not really able to increase their income, so they might have to cut some of their costs, yet still the same point is that if they cannot figure out ways to have discretionary funds, then they won't be able to buy bitcoin.

Furthermore if they are starting to deplete any back up funds that they might have based on increases in the cost of living, then they might deplete themselves down to a point that they have to start to tap into their bitcoin investment, and surely if they had not gotten their bitcoin up to a high enough amount then they might start working backwards in terms of their goals or their abilities to meet  their goals.

Surely as folks get older sometimes they might either not be able to increase their income or they might be in situations in which they are receiving fixed incomes that may well not keep up with the raises in the cost of living, so then at some point they might no longer be able to accumulate more bitcoin and they have to figure out ways to start to live off of the bitcoin or at least supplement whatever income that they have with the bitcoin that they have, and so then at that point, there may well be hopes that the person had gotten to a point of accumulation that he has enough bitcoin or even more than enough bitcoin in order to start to either live off of the bitcoin completely or to supplement whatever other sources of income that he had happened to have at that time.

I talk about price-based and time-based sustainable withdrawal in my sustainable withdrawal thread.

Now you have addressed what I have been trying to point. You faced those who can and can't. You also faced those who can't actually increase as result in deeping into their Bitcoin reserves. Sure at the end, one must find a way to increase their income in other not to take from their Bitcoin investment. But in the meantime that the face of inflation steps in, would the person now stop investing even though he or she can still survive the face but the investment will slightly reduce pending when he or she gets back on their feet? No. Investment will still continue. And that is were I was driving at. At the end, the increment of income has to be initiated to avoid deeping hands into the Bitcoin investment.

I check your trend out about price-based and time-based sustainable withdrawal. You surely put in some hard work into that. I would take my time to digest that. Thanks for the clarity.

[reagansimms]

Frequently position size can help a person to get started, even if they have skepticism about bitcoin, yet at the same time, you are right that if the skepticism (lack of trust) is too high, then they might even be reluctant to get started at all.

We likely find that trust issues, in regards to something new, innovative and even receiving a lot of negative press, like bitcoin might merely be an excuse to not investigate into bitcoin further.

It's regrettable but most bitcoin hater are hating on it over some kind of misunderstanding, most were scammed and the scammer probably told them they were buying bitcoin so after that experience they see anything related to bitcoin as some kind of a scam, their reasons I can understand even though a bit of investigation will clear that mindset out of them.

This type of Bitcoin hater is a victim of fraud and this type is the most common, they are deceived using the guise of Bitcoin investment with an average profit of several percent in a month. In fact, it is not Bitcoin that is deceiving them, but individuals who are using Bitcoin as a medium to defraud other people. This type of Bitcoin hater usually needs to be addressed by educating them, once or twice I think is enough, we just need to convince them that Bitcoin is the network, while the ones who commit fraud are individuals who are taking advantage of Bitcoin popularity. Just as gold can be counterfeited, but that doesn't mean gold is a scam.

what I can't understand are those that don't trust bitcoin just because, falsely pushing their own insecurities on bitcoin, when it got to $120k they told themselves it was too expensive, now they are telling themselves that for something that once got to $126k to now be around $60 then it can't be trustworthy, people like this will just keep using any excuse they can find to not invest in bitcoin.

This type of people are very good at finding excuses, the price of Bitcoin is always their reason to hate Bitcoin. When Bitcoin price was at $30,000, they said it was too expensive, better wait until it drops to $20,000. When the value rose to $60,000, they said it was a bubble, and it would come down again. When the value rose to $126,000, they said it was too late and then it dropped again to $60,000 they said it was a scam, basically they will never believe in Bitcoin and the main problem is with themselves.
Perhaps because they are afraid of losing, they look for reasons not to make decisions. They also don't understand Bitcoin, so they always project their own insecurities onto Bitcoin, thinking that Bitcoin is the same as company shares, if the value drops, the company will go bankrupt.

Bitcoin doesn't need everyone to believe in it, it just needs time, it's worth $64,000 now and $120,000 at the last ATH, it's not really about expensive or cheap, but it's a reflection of how many people have understood it. Now the most important thing for us is to buy it with cold money, DCA and hold long term. When 5 or 10 years later those who have always hated Bitcoin ask us at what price we bought Bitcoin, we can answer with a smile.