JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Aventas]

I have been reading about investing in this forum for the past few months before opening an account here. I have even continued to study in this thread.@JayJuanGee Your thread is food for thought. Although you have written a lot of things over a long period of time which can be difficult for me to keep in mind, because what you have written is important, it also takes a lot of time to read....I definitely appreciate your advice. I have written some important things in the form of notes over the past few months as per your advice, and the things I have understood are:

While investing, we must have an emergency backup fund which is at least equal to the cost of living for 3 to 6 months. If this suddenly gives us a financial crisis, then there will be no need to sell the investment. And you have advised many times to build an emergency fund along with the investment, instead of focusing on the emergency fund in the beginning. So that the investment can be started quickly.

 At the beginning of investment, we should have a desire to invest and start investing with a small amount. And invest with the money that remains after meeting our basic needs. You called this discretionary income. And I remember these words of yours.

You have given more importance to DCA in the opening post 3 of this thread and in other threads as well. I have studied in different places and tried to understand what DCA is. I have come to know that DCA creates the average purchase price of our investment. And I find it quite interesting. Here is a question for you, can't people with irregular income keep their discretionary income in hand and slowly run DCA on a weekly or monthly basis?

You have forbidden waiting to buy at low prices in many places. Because no one knows when the price will come down. And when the price comes down, the market is called DIP.

Our long-term goal while investing should be at least 4-10 years....Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. I have noted several other issues which will gradually become clear after discussing with all of you. I would like to seek everyone's advice and discuss with everyone. So those who are experienced in this matter, please help me out with some of your valuable time.

[Showlove01]

Yea, and that's why the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin is always pointed as one of the best since it gives room for such possibility or flexibility in our bitcoin accumulation journey. Am sure if the price of starting bitcoin investment is something static or kept at a very compulsory high amount, so many coiners who have accumulated something tangible though gradually over the years wouldn't have started. But the DCA brings the investment process to simple as it offers begginers easy starting approach to begin.

This is what beginners really need: a way to start investing without significant anxiety, and I think the answer is the DCA strategy.

Even if the price of Bitcoin drops, it's no problem because we can actually lower our average when we buy again at a lower price, and so on. So, when Bitcoin rises, even just touching our initial purchase price, we can already see a profit.

This is something that must be learned and understood, because the DCA strategy isn't just about accumulating our purchases; it also influences the point at which we can change our average.

This is very wrong talking about profit while still accumulating bitcoin or when you don't have a good amount of bitcoin in your portfolio. The DCA strategy isn't for taking quick profit whenever there is a slight rise or increase in price as you think. What you should be talking about is consistent and buying with any amount of discretionionary income and holdings for a long time without begin to think if you are already in profit or not. Unless you are planning to trade bitcoin rather than investing in it.

You are absolutely correct and anyone who is targeting profit in a short term, I think the DCA is not the best method to use because with the DCA method you will be accumulating I mean purchasing at different price both high and low price so how do you intend to take profit in a short term when you can not really tell all the price point you purchased your Bitcoin, you can only tell you on profit when the price has surge so high that it becomes obvious perhaps the DCA method should be used for long term investment because you will purchase at different points.

[Ruttoshi]

.Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Before you start your bitcoin investment have a long-term investment mindset and a bitcoin target that you will focus on accumulating gradually with DCA from part of your discretionary income that will not affect your financially and emotionally.

As a new investor, you can start out with little amount of money as low as $10 or more to build your confidence in bitcoin through experiencing the market ups and downs as you buy regularly every week with consistency and persistence. When your bitcoin accumulation is ongoing, your confidence will increase in bitcoin as a good asset for the long-term.

[JayJuanGee]

Yea, and that's why the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin is always pointed as one of the best since it gives room for such possibility or flexibility in our bitcoin accumulation journey. Am sure if the price of starting bitcoin investment is something static or kept at a very compulsory high amount, so many coiners who have accumulated something tangible though gradually over the years wouldn't have started. But the DCA brings the investment process to simple as it offers begginers easy starting approach to begin.

This is what beginners really need: a way to start investing without significant anxiety, and I think the answer is the DCA strategy.

Even if the price of Bitcoin drops, it's no problem because we can actually lower our average when we buy again at a lower price, and so on. So, when Bitcoin rises, even just touching our initial purchase price, we can already see a profit.

This is something that must be learned and understood, because the DCA strategy isn't just about accumulating our purchases; it also influences the point at which we can change our average.

This is very wrong talking about profit while still accumulating bitcoin or when you don't have a good amount of bitcoin in your portfolio. The DCA strategy isn't for taking quick profit whenever there is a slight rise or increase in price as you think. What you should be talking about is consistent and buying with any amount of discretionionary income and holdings for a long time without begin to think if you are already in profit or not. Unless you are planning to trade bitcoin rather than investing in it.

Of course, we are talking about investing here rather than trading, and we are also talking about my ideas related to investing - hopefully, to the extent that guys are able to try to stay on topic.

Surely, I have no problem with guys paying attention to their level of profits and/or ways of attempting to measure their progress, yet surely profits is not a great emphasis point if the really objective is to invest rather than trade and/or gamble.. so in that regard there may well be some questions in regards to what is investing and what are the ways that we go about trying to invest.. and surely there are a variety of factors that affect how guys want to deal with their bitcoin, including various things that they want to buy along the way and perhaps other investments that they might make, and even something like a house can be considered an investment or a consumption item that holds its value better than other consumption items.. and surely normal people can really get attached to where they live and wanting to build a legacy around where they live and the various experiences around that...

...so even though housing has a lot of expenses and is likely an inferior investment to bitcoin in many financial ways, many folks may place a lot of emphasis in getting a house, and surely how they deal with the house issue and whether they still try to stay significantly in bitcoin can have a lot of variance, and surely mistakes can be made in terms of how to balance the achievement of both objectives... and sure there are other big ticket items too like cars that sometimes will take normal people a while to build up to be able to buy such an asset that is usually quite depreciating and otherwise expensive to maintain... .so the idea of investing can sometimes butt heads with ideas of profit, consumption and even how much to invest into other assets/currencies besides just bitcoin and cash.

Members participating in this thread do not necessarily need to agree with my ideas, yet surely blanketedly throwing out ideas of profits without a context sounds way more like trading than investing, and then when they come into any investing thread and proclaim that trading and investing are all the same in regards to seeing profits, even though they do it in different ways.. I think that those ideas are bullshit and likely demonstrate someone who is too much into a trading mindset without even understanding the largely distracting (and perhaps frequently not very relevant) point that they tend to be trying to argue when they raise those kinds of likely wrong "everything is about profits" points.

[laijsica]

Our long-term goal while investing should be at least 4-10 years....Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Avoid showing personal volatility to get profit. Be firm in Bitcoin accumulation and do it through discretionary income. Build an emergency fund because your Bitcoin goal is a long term of 4-10 years. Accumulate Bitcoin regardless of each price during this period because the market price volatility can be affected by FOMO and create an immature withdrawal attitude. Long-term goal is a tough challenge to face this challenge. Be patient and accumulate Bitcoin through discretionary income through DCA strategy and your investment target should be to build a decent Bitcoin portfolio during this period.

[Joeboy]

Here is a question for you, can't people with irregular income keep their discretionary income in hand and slowly run DCA on a weekly or monthly basis?

Sure that is very much possible... With DCA folks could very much apply flexibility and invest whenever they have their discretionary income, and it dosen't matter if that amount is small at the start.. But as investors(with unstable income),  it is still very important that as they go on with they investment, they should try to figure how to stabilize their income and they can do by reducing their dependency on that one inconsistent source and then build other source of income so as to increase cashflow...

Building backup funds/or emergency funds is very important since it could very well protect your investment, and folks cannot really achieve this if their income is quite inconsistent, and that's another reason why folks need to work on their income as they go...

[JayJuanGee]

I have been reading about investing in this forum for the past few months before opening an account here. I have even continued to study in this thread.@JayJuanGee Your thread is food for thought. Although you have written a lot of things over a long period of time which can be difficult for me to keep in mind, because what you have written is important, it also takes a lot of time to read....I definitely appreciate your advice. I have written some important things in the form of notes over the past few months as per your advice, and the things I have understood are:

One of the reasons that I frequently emphasize that guys get started investing in bitcoin as soon as possible, so long as they figure out that they have discretionary funds that they are able to put into bitcoin (that they are willing to lose) and that they have common sense, since no one gets into in an investment to lose money, there should be a perspective that investing in bitcoin is likely to put them in a better position 4-10 years or longer as compared if they had not invested in bitcoin, yet the whole matter takes time, practice and perhaps starting slow with a very small position size to the extent that there might be uncomfortableness when starting out... so experience will tend to help to build knowledge in more solid ways rather than just thinking about the matter.

While investing, we must have an emergency backup fund which is at least equal to the cost of living for 3 to 6 months. If this suddenly gives us a financial crisis, then there will be no need to sell the investment. And you have advised many times to build an emergency fund along with the investment, instead of focusing on the emergency fund in the beginning. So that the investment can be started quickly.

I surely have hesitancies in terms of trying to figure out how much a guy should have for his back up funds, so in some sense most normal people should be able to start from wherever they are at, especially if they have discretionary funds on a fairly regular basis... so then the BIGGER question might be the extent to which the discretionary funds are enough in order to dedicate some portion of the discretionary funds towards investing into bitcoin and locking up that value for 4-10 years or longer.

I give those numbers as guidelines, yet you should be able to imagine that if a person is ONLY able to invest around 10% of his income into both his bitcoin investment and his back up funds (perhaps 5% in each of those), then after 10 months, he would have ONLY put around 1/2 of a month's income into each.. .. ... and sure his expenses are lower, yet it can take a lot of time to build up both the bitcoin investment and the back up funds... and so then there can be questions regarding how much of a guy's income is he even ready, willing and able to put into his back up funds..

and surely I have been trying to error on the side of 3 months minimum to build up into the back up funds rather than recommendations of 6 months that so many financial management folks tend to recommend.. which from my perspective seems like a whole hell-of-a-lot of non-working capital... that might be o.k. as a person becomes more and more wealthy, yet when he is starting out he both has to get some investment going but at the same time when he is starting out he is more vulnerable to fucking up since he does not have any wealth built up... the building up of wealth takes time but it gives options, and it is problematic to be thinking about wealth building in terms of the fiat, even though the fiat is necessary to protect the tapping into the bitcoin investment - at least to mitigate how long it might take before a guy might end up having to tap into his bitcoin stash since the back up funds give options that can come in very handy if there are times in which the income might end up going down and/or the expenses end up going up.

At the beginning of investment, we should have a desire to invest and start investing with a small amount. And invest with the money that remains after meeting our basic needs. You called this discretionary income. And I remember these words of yours.

Yes... Discretionary income or disposable income are the terms that are usually used to describe that money that we have left after we have already covered - or accounted for whatever basic expenses that we have for that pay period.. and sometimes depending on how often we are paid, we may well have to adequately account for basic expenses that cross over more than one pay period, and frequently we talk in terms of monthly periods based on bills that might be due in monthly intervals, yet there may well be some bills that are due over yearly periods or even over several month periods, too.

So at minimum we likely need to be careful in terms of considering all of our discretionary income to be available for investing, since sometimes we could end up making mistakes in our accounting and failing to adequately account for some changes that might come  in our income and/or our expenses.

You have given more importance to DCA in the opening post 3 of this thread and in other threads as well. I have studied in different places and tried to understand what DCA is. I have come to know that DCA creates the average purchase price of our investment. And I find it quite interesting. Here is a question for you, can't people with irregular income keep their discretionary income in hand and slowly run DCA on a weekly or monthly basis?

I tend to like to try to encourage guys to try to get their finances to a point that they are able to buy bitcoin every week, yet of course, if their income and/or expenses are irregular then they likely need to attempt to make preparations for being able to accomplish weekly buy of bitcoin.. .so surely I consider DCA to be advantageous based on the ability tailor it to your own cashflow situation, so then price might not be as big of a concern, even though surely a person who is buying weekly could try to figure out ways to buy bitcoin during periods that he perceives bitcoin to be dipping during the week, yet at the same time making sure he make his weekly buy no matter what.

So for example, if a guy has an irregular income that might range between $500 and $1,500 per month, and perhaps an average around $1k per month, and maybe his expenses per month are between $600 and $900 with an average of $750, so he knows that on average he has $250 of discretionary income, yet he still has to prepare for those irregular periods in which his income might be down and his expenses are up... .so maybe the guy saves up an extra cash fund of $400 that he specifically is going to use to buy $20 of bitcoin every week no matter what.. so that he knows that fund can cover 20 weeks of bitcoin buys.. so then he may well refresh that fund from time to time .. but then he has to have some other funds too in order to cover his expenses - especially during those months that he ONLY brings in $500 for the whole month..

The longer we practice, the better that we can become at reaching some kind of a balance so that we are not putting ourselves into stressful situations based on lack of cash and we continue to buy bitcoin no matter what.. and yeah, maybe we might get into a system in which we are buying between $20 and $100 worth of bitcoin each week, and maybe on average it is about $45, but we try to make sure to buy $20 no matter what based on both a priority that we give to buying bitcoin, yet also a system that we have customized to ourself and put in place in order to accomplish our priority.. and if our income and/or expense situation improves in the future, then we already have a system in place that we can tweak to increase our bitcoin buys based on increasing our discretionary income levels (and/or discretionary income reliability).

You have forbidden waiting to buy at low prices in many places.

Sure, frequently I state my opinion and preferences and my suggestion that bitcoin should be a priority for everyone who has discretionary funds, yet at the same time, people have to decide for themselves and to live with the consequences of their actions and/or inactions.

I do tend to suggest that guys should have a 4-10 year or longer time horizon to actually be investing into bitcoin, even though I recognize that beginners might not know if they are able to commit to 4-10 years or longer - so ultimately people have to decide for themselves in regards to whether they are going to get into bitcoin with 5% to 25% of their income (or their investment portfolio) and/or if they choose not to.. including if they choose that they are going to get into it, how they are going to do it, which is also their responsibility to figure out what works for them, even if they might end up making several mistakes along the way, if they have some level of common sense (rather than being a degenerate gambler), then perhaps they will figure out ways to build a bitcoin stash through ongoing investing.. or even reallocating into bitcoin from other investments that they might have.

Because no one knows when the price will come down. And when the price comes down, the market is called DIP.

Our long-term goal while investing should be at least 4-10 years....Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

If you already know that your investment timeline is long and you know that bitcoin is quite a volatile asset, you should try to invest accordingly, and perhaps you don't need to rush.

i personally think that if you tell yourself that you are going to invest within your budget and try to buy bitcoin every week, then at least once a year (of course, you can asses and reassess more frequently if you like), you will go back and look at how you are doing and your progress in regards to both managing your bitcoin building yet also your cashflow management systems/practices.  You likely will see improvements each year, whether or not your bitcoin holdings are in profits or not... and of course profits are not guaranteed.

Another thing is that many folks who do not have other investments when they start bitcoin, they are likely going to take more than 10 years to build up their bitcoin investment, unless they run into some streaks of luck in which they are able to put more money into bitcoin during certain periods of time...   I think that the only reason to have less than a 10 year investment timeline would be based on age and/or health considerations.

Now, if you are thinking that if you invest in bitcoin for more than 10 years, then you are going to be suffering through your youth, which surely you have to figure out ways to bring balance to what you are doing, so even if you are giving a certain high priority towards investing into bitcoin and building up (and maintaining) your back up funds, you also have a responsibility to yourself that you make sure that you feel good about what you are doing and perhaps even to make sure that spend on your own consumption and/or luxuries from time to time.

Even though there aren't any guarantees how your bitcoin investment and your organizing yourself will end up in profits, it seems quite likely that you will end up in a better position for having had invested in bitcoin and organized your finances as compared if you had not.. yet in the end, the choice is yours and the consequences are yours too.
 

Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. I have noted several other issues which will gradually become clear after discussing with all of you. I would like to seek everyone's advice and discuss with everyone. So those who are experienced in this matter, please help me out with some of your valuable time.

I don't consider myself to be giving or receiving advice.. so hopefully, you figure out how to take responsibility since we are sharing ideas here.. and so in the end, you make choice about what you consider to be the good, bad or the ugly ideas, and you choose the extent to which you want to pursue some of the ideas through actions that you take, and you have to figure out your own action and what fit with your own financial and psychological circumstances.. including considering your personal and financial goals.

.Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Before you start your bitcoin investment have a long-term investment mindset and a bitcoin target that you will focus on accumulating gradually with DCA from part of your discretionary income that will not affect your financially and emotionally.

As a new investor, you can start out with little amount of money as low as $10 or more to build your confidence in bitcoin through experiencing the market ups and downs as you buy regularly every week with consistency and persistence. When your bitcoin accumulation is ongoing, your confidence will increase in bitcoin as a good asset for the long-term.

This raises a good point too.

You (referring to Aventas' question) likely want to create goals that are achievable.. so you will have short, medium and long term goals.. so when you are first building your goals might be merely to figure out your expenses versus your income so that you know how much money that you actually have available and maybe considering and/or reconsidering your spending habits as well as the extent to which you consider your income to be adequate or in needs of improvement.  

You also might consider that the various kinds of work that you are doing are not really good for improving your financial status or your future income, so you might consider if there might be some skills that you need to learn or networking that you need to make or even some folks will attend college or a trade school or try to get into an internship, which can take years to play out.. so your bitcoin investment might not get as much priority if you are building your own skills and/or future income possibilities. You have to figure out some of those personal matters to the extent that they might be lacking or contributing towards your difficulties to think in longer term kinds of ways.

[justinlamode]

Our long-term goal while investing should be at least 4-10 years....Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Avoid showing personal volatility to get profit. Be firm in Bitcoin accumulation and do it through discretionary income. Build an emergency fund because your Bitcoin goal is a long term of 4-10 years. Accumulate Bitcoin regardless of each price during this period because the market price volatility can be affected by FOMO and create an immature withdrawal attitude. Long-term goal is a tough challenge to face this challenge. Be patient and accumulate Bitcoin through discretionary income through DCA strategy and your investment target should be to build a decent Bitcoin portfolio during this period.

Seems I just learnt a new word today "personal volatility ", wish you added more explanation to this so that to make the meaning clearer. I know of volatility of the Bitcoin market just like every other traded markets. I want to assuming that what you are referring to personal volatility is impulsive behavior that can make an investor take decisions without proper consideration and end up making mistakes. Decision such as selling when not planned, investing funds for basic needs into Bitcoin and others, which are generally harmful to the accumulation and holding process and should therefore be avoided.

[JayJuanGee]

Our long-term goal while investing should be at least 4-10 years....Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Avoid showing personal volatility to get profit. Be firm in Bitcoin accumulation and do it through discretionary income. Build an emergency fund because your Bitcoin goal is a long term of 4-10 years. Accumulate Bitcoin regardless of each price during this period because the market price volatility can be affected by FOMO and create an immature withdrawal attitude. Long-term goal is a tough challenge to face this challenge. Be patient and accumulate Bitcoin through discretionary income through DCA strategy and your investment target should be to build a decent Bitcoin portfolio during this period.

Seems I just learnt a new word today "personal volatility ", wish you added more explanation to this so that to make the meaning clearer. I know of volatility of the Bitcoin market just like every other traded markets. I want to assuming that what you are referring to personal volatility is impulsive behavior that can make an investor take decisions without proper consideration and end up making mistakes. Decision such as selling when not planned, investing funds for basic needs into Bitcoin and others, which are generally harmful to the accumulation and holding process and should therefore be avoided.

I would hate to emphasize the weaknesses of traders in this thread or the weaknesses of a person transitioning into a trader, since I think that we can create situations so that we do not panic.  In other words, if we build strong systems of buying bitcoin and also strong systems of cashflow management, then it should become way les likely that we are gong to panic.. because strong finances likely have side effects that improve psychology.

Accordingly, personal volatility could still be guys being in situations in which their income and/or their expenses have a lot of variability, which contributes to it being more important that they have both back up funds but that they are also measured in how much they are putting into bitcoin, since they might end up overdoing it when their finances are not very solid.

[Aventas]

[/quote
I surely have hesitancies in terms of trying to figure out how much a guy should have for his back up funds, so in some sense most normal people should be able to start from wherever they are at, especially if they have discretionary funds on a fairly regular basis... so then the BIGGER question might be the extent to which the discretionary funds are enough in order to dedicate some portion of the discretionary funds towards investing into bitcoin and locking up that value for 4-10 years or longer.

I give those numbers as guidelines, yet you should be able to imagine that if a person is ONLY able to invest around 10% of his income into both his bitcoin investment and his back up funds (perhaps 5% in each of those), then after 10 months, he would have ONLY put around 1/2 of a month's income into each.. .. ... and sure his expenses are lower, yet it can take a lot of time to build up both the bitcoin investment and the back up funds... and so then there can be questions regarding how much of a guy's income is he even ready, willing and able to put into his back up funds..

and surely I have been trying to error on the side of 3 months minimum to build up into the back up funds rather than recommendations of 6 months that so many financial management folks tend to recommend.. which from my perspective seems like a whole hell-of-a-lot of non-working capital... that might be o.k. as a person becomes more and more wealthy, yet when he is starting out he both has to get some investment going but at the same time when he is starting out he is more vulnerable to fucking up since he does not have any wealth built up... the building up of wealth takes time but it gives options, and it is problematic to be thinking about wealth building in terms of the fiat, even though the fiat is necessary to protect the tapping into the bitcoin investment - at least to mitigate how long it might take before a guy might end up having to tap into his bitcoin stash since the back up funds give options that can come in very handy if there are times in which the income might end up going down and/or the expenses end up going up.
[/quote)

I have read many discussions including yours that DCA gives us the opportunity to determine the average purchase price as well as buy according to our financial situation. Now what I want to say:

Suppose, we are regularly investing a large part of our discretionary income every week or month in the DCA method. In such a situation, if suddenly our income is reduced by half or stopped, the amount of discretionary income decreases, and we suddenly continue to DCA a small amount compared to the previous one or stop investing for 1 month, then does suddenly reducing the amount of DCA or stopping investing for 1 month destroy the continuity of our DCA method or break the basic idea of ​​our DCA method?

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You said in this message that you do not consider yourself involved in giving or taking advice. Unfortunately, I cannot quote that part as you did. I tried for quite some time.  However, based on your message, I know you are not obligated to share your ideas with me by giving me advice. And I also understand that everyone's time is valuable. When you get some of your valuable time, that is, at your convenience, please explain your ideas. And from now on, I will spend most of my time on this forum and learn how to quote specific lines.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I have read many discussions including yours that DCA gives us the opportunity to determine the average purchase price as well as buy according to our financial situation. Now what I want to say:

Sure.. if you ongoingly buy in a regular way, the over time your will end up achieving the average purchase price over that period of time, so that if you bought the same dolalr amount every week  for four years (or for 200 weeks), then your average cost should be the same as the 200-WMA.  There is some value in that, yet at the same time, if you were to have a preference, you would prefer to buy for a cheaper price rather than the average price, yet since you have no idea about whether the BTC price is going to go up, down or sideways, you ongoingly buy to have insurance in case the price goes up and it does not go down.

Right now, the 200-WMA (4-year average) is $58,900, and so you can look at how the 200-WMA compares to the spot price over bitcoin's history, including coming to the conclusion that the 200-WMA tends to go up more than 25% per year on average (and much more in several cases), and it tends to serve as the bottom for BTC price moves..l so if you have average costs per BTC that are at or below the 200-WMA, then you are generally going to tend to  be in profits in terms of BTC's spot price.

Sure, your actual profits, do not matter too much while you are still accumulating, and I imagine that it takes most beginners more than 2 cycles to build up their bitcoin holdings, unless they are able to front load their bitcoin investment (perhaps by transferring money into bitcoin from other sources, or from other investments).

Regarding having some kind of a preference for the average bitcoin price, people say dumb shit all the time in terms of wanting to get an average price, and I doubt that having an average price is a correct motivation, even though if the BTC price is trending upwards, then it becomes quite likely that your average cost per BTC is going to continue to be lower and lower and lower relative to the BTC price, with the passage of time...and so after 10 years, your average will be the average over those 10 years.

Another dynamic is that with the passage of time, especially if you are a young person, your income will likely continue to go up due to pay raises and also due to potential promotions, so if you manage your cashflows, you should be able to increase the amounts that you put into bitcoin.. yet at the same time, the dollar (and other fiat) gets worth less and less and less, so may well have a preference that the rate that bitcoin goes up relative to the dollar (or other fiat) is faster than it is debasing in value.

I think that the power of DCA is that you can customize your purchases (the frequency and the quantity) towards your own cashflow situation and also towards your chosen level of aggressiveness (or whimpiness, if you so choose).

Suppose, we are regularly investing a large part of our discretionary income every week or month in the DCA method. In such a situation, if suddenly our income is reduced by half or stopped, the amount of discretionary income decreases, and we suddenly continue to DCA a small amount compared to the previous one or stop investing for 1 month, then does suddenly reducing the amount of DCA or stopping investing for 1 month destroy the continuity of our DCA method or break the basic idea of ​​our DCA method?

Personally, I believe that you should just do the best that you can do, and for sure your highest preference would be to continue to add to your bitcoin holdings every week, and so then the second preference would be to not tap into your bitcoin holdings even if you are not able to add to it, and then your third preference, if you have to tap into your bitcoin, would be to tap into as little of it as possible and to spend from all your other sources of income and/or savings and/or back up funds prior to depleting your bitcoin holdings.

So yeah, life can be tough sometimes, and frequently people should be trying to put themselves into a position so that they can continue to invest for 10 years or more and surely some people might need to invest 20 to 30 to 40 years or more... and so you do your best based on your circumstances, and surely as you continue to invest, hopefully you continue to learn how to manage your money and also try to figure out ways to improve your income situation both in terms of the amount of your pay and also in terms of the stability of your pay.. and for sure, it is not always easy to achieve what you prefer to achieve.
 
There have been a lot of people who have improved their life situations by getting involved in investing in bitcoin, yet there are some of those guys who did not manage their bitcoin investment very well and sometimes they were trading with their bitcoin and/or getting involved in shitcoins and engaging in other forms of behaviors that add a lot of unnecessary risk - especially when bitcoin has been such a great way to improve our wealth status, yet there are some people who figured out ways to lose money with one of the best (if not the best?) of assets that is currently available for investment to everyone and anyone who has discretionary funds and common sense.. and they can tailor their amounts to their income situatuation.

You said in this message that you do not consider yourself involved in giving or taking advice. Unfortunately, I cannot quote that part as you did. I tried for quite some time.  However, based on your message, I know you are not obligated to share your ideas with me by giving me advice. And I also understand that everyone's time is valuable. When you get some of your valuable time, that is, at your convenience, please explain your ideas. And from now on, I will spend most of my time on this forum and learn how to quote specific lines.

I am glad that you are trying to learn.  Sometimes it takes time to figure things out, but if you just keep working at it little by little, then you will likely learn more and more, especially if you are putting time and effort into learning.

The idea of not giving or taking advice relates to my attempt to treat people as their own entity, so each of us has to decide for ourselves and also to take responsibility.

Sure, we can share ideas back and forth, but we need to make efforts to figure out what we are going to do and why on our own.  So let's say for example, I say that you should figure out a way to buy bitcoin every week no matter what for the next 10 to 15 years, and that would probably be a good idea that you can consider, yet at the same time, whether or not you do it is for you to decide... so yeah, maybe I am making a recommendation based on my ideas of you and my ideas from my own experiences, yet I might be wrong.. so you gotta figure it out.  The same is true if you tell me something, and I might consider it to be a good idea or a bad idea, but I have to come to my own assessment.  Sometimes, I hear some guys say to do x, y or z, yet if I don't really understand what they mean, I have to try to figure it out to the extent that I am even trying to absorb what they were trying to tell me. 

You may well already know that there is good, bad and ugly advice in the world, and especially  on the internet, so it can be quite helpful to try to ongoingly carry out critical thinking whether we are talking about bitcoin investing, politics, religion, nutrition, sex or various potentially controversial topics.

[SuperBitMan]

.Here my question is how can I build mental patience and confidence for such a long period of time?

Before you start your bitcoin investment have a long-term investment mindset and a bitcoin target that you will focus on accumulating gradually with DCA from part of your discretionary income that will not affect your financially and emotionally.

As a new investor, you can start out with little amount of money as low as $10 or more to build your confidence in bitcoin through experiencing the market ups and downs as you buy regularly every week with consistency and persistence. When your bitcoin accumulation is ongoing, your confidence will increase in bitcoin as a good asset for the long-term.

Yeah good advice, I will love to add that if you are new into bitcoin investment and you want to use the DCA, give yourself a task to accumulate weekly or monthly. some people that are using the DCA strategy don’t have a particular time that they accumulate bitcoin and that has made them not to accumulate much bitcoin, if you say you will be accumulate bitcoin every week or month and you keep to it and do it consistently you will see yourself haven’t good amount of bitcoin after some years, but if you don’t have a particular time you accumulate, you just accumulate any time you feel like believe me you won’t accumulate good amount of bitcoin in years. Consistency is key to bitcoin success and when you have a particular time you accumulate and you are constantly accumulating at that time you will succeed in your journey.

[Tongley]

You said in this message that you do not consider yourself involved in giving or taking advice. Unfortunately, I cannot quote that part as you did. I tried for quite some time.  However, based on your message, I know you are not obligated to share your ideas with me by giving me advice. And I also understand that everyone's time is valuable. When you get some of your valuable time, that is, at your convenience, please explain your ideas. And from now on, I will spend most of my time on this forum and learn how to quote specific lines.

I am glad that you are trying to learn.  Sometimes it takes time to figure things out, but if you just keep working at it little by little, then you will likely learn more and more, especially if you are putting time and effort into learning.

The idea of not giving or taking advice relates to my attempt to treat people as their own entity, so each of us has to decide for ourselves and also to take responsibility.

Sure, we can share ideas back and forth, but we need to make efforts to figure out what we are going to do and why on our own.  So let's say for example, I say that you should figure out a way to buy bitcoin every week no matter what for the next 10 to 15 years, and that would probably be a good idea that you can consider, yet at the same time, whether or not you do it is for you to decide... so yeah, maybe I am making a recommendation based on my ideas of you and my ideas from my own experiences, yet I might be wrong.. so you gotta figure it out.  The same is true if you tell me something, and I might consider it to be a good idea or a bad idea, but I have to come to my own assessment.  Sometimes, I hear some guys say to do x, y or z, yet if I don't really understand what they mean, I have to try to figure it out to the extent that I am even trying to absorb what they were trying to tell me. 

You may well already know that there is good, bad and ugly advice in the world, and especially  on the internet, so it can be quite helpful to try to ongoingly carry out critical thinking whether we are talking about bitcoin investing, politics, religion, nutrition, sex or various potentially controversial topics.

Yes you are right. Even if we all share our advice, we still have to decide what we are going to do or what will be good for us. Maybe through our advice a person will see many paths and from among those paths which one will be good for him, it is completely up to him to decide. For example if a person wants to invest and if he asks which one will be best for me. Then we can introduce him to the methods of investment, such as, DCA method, DIP method, lump sum investment method. We can inform him about these investment methods and from these methods, the method that will be beneficial for him depending on his financial situation, he needs to use that investment method. This decision is completely up to him to take.

[Aventas]

I have noted another point. Since many are giving importance to buying DCA and DIP. I am clear about the DCA method, but I am skeptical about DIP. Please share whatever you know from your own experience. Personally, I think if I ask the OP repeatedly, he may feel annoyed. So I want to ask the other members here and I want to be a little clearer about DIP. I am mentioning the skepticism I have about DIP.

Some people in this forum are claiming that buying DIP is profitable, so they are giving more priority to DIP.So this claim of theirs is basically making me skeptical.People can say whatever they want.But I just want to clear my skepticism with an example.

Recently, the price of Bitcoin is around $70k. Suppose I waited for 7-8 months hoping to buy more at DIP. After waiting for 1 month, the price suddenly increased to $130k. I waited more and eventually the price dropped to $90k. And this is what was called DIP. Which is much higher than the current price.

I think that waiting and buying like this is more risky. Although it will not always be like this. But I had doubts about this matter.

[CageMabok]

...

...

Yes you are right. Even if we all share our advice, we still have to decide what we are going to do or what will be good for us. Maybe through our advice a person will see many paths and from among those paths which one will be good for him, it is completely up to him to decide. For example if a person wants to invest and if he asks which one will be best for me. Then we can introduce him to the methods of investment, such as, DCA method, DIP method, lump sum investment method. We can inform him about these investment methods and from these methods, the method that will be beneficial for him depending on his financial situation, he needs to use that investment method. This decision is completely up to him to take.

In short, every piece of advice received from another person doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, even if it's packaged more deeply in our own minds. This means that any advice received from anyone doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, because everyone who receives advice from others always has time to think and digest it before implementing it. Because the effectiveness of a suggestion will be proven by the results achieved by the person offering it, the method used by that person will begin to be trusted by many others in the future. However, currently, the DCA method is the most frequently used method, so quite a number of investors recommend it.

[Merit.s]

I have noted another point. Since many are giving importance to buying DCA and DIP. I am clear about the DCA method, but I am skeptical about DIP. Please share whatever you know from your own experience. Personally, I think if I ask the OP repeatedly, he may feel annoyed. So I want to ask the other members here and I want to be a little clearer about DIP. I am mentioning the skepticism I have about DIP.

Some people in this forum are claiming that buying DIP is profitable, so they are giving more priority to DIP.So this claim of theirs is basically making me skeptical.People can say whatever they want.But I just want to clear my skepticism with an example.

Recently, the price of Bitcoin is around $70k. Suppose I waited for 7-8 months hoping to buy more at DIP. After waiting for 1 month, the price suddenly increased to $130k. I waited more and eventually the price dropped to $90k. And this is what was called DIP. Which is much higher than the current price.

I think that waiting and buying like this is more risky. Although it will not always be like this. But I had doubts about this matter.

Buying at the dip means buying when bitcoin is below the current price. That's bitcoin price is currently at $69,455 as I'm writing this post. instead, of you to buy at this price because your discretionary income is available, you didn't and choose to wait till the price of bitcoin fall to $50k before you will buy. That's what buying at the dip means.

The bad side of this strategy is that you will continue waiting for the price to reach $50k without buying and if the price did not reach that amount you wouldn't buy keeping you in a stagnate position at that moment. What if the price did not fall, you will miss out the opportunity in the market that you should have used to accumulate bitcoin with DCA every week and increase your portfolio size.

Buying at the dip limits the quantity of bitcoin that you are supposed to have accumulated assuming you kepg your DCA ongoing regularly, weekly, persistently and consistently for 4-10 years and above. There is no need waiting when you have your discretionary income. Bitcoin price movement is unpredictable making it not a good idea to wait.

[JayJuanGee]

I have noted another point. Since many are giving importance to buying DCA and DIP. I am clear about the DCA method, but I am skeptical about DIP. Please share whatever you know from your own experience. Personally, I think if I ask the OP repeatedly, he may feel annoyed. So I want to ask the other members here and I want to be a little clearer about DIP. I am mentioning the skepticism I have about DIP.

Sure.. No problem.. Other guys can chime in, and yeah sometimes you just have to continue to read and to try to figure out these matters with your own attempts to apply the ideas to your practices.

If you are a beginner and you are focusing on getting started in building your bitcoin holdings, then you are mostly going to be buying through DCA, lump sum and/or buying on dips.  You will also be improving your cashflow management systems/practices at the same time.

Accordingly, you likely want to pace yourself in your buying of bitcoin, and DCA works well for that so that you can set your buy amount and get used to your trying to buy every week, whether it is $100, $10 or some other amount (and yeah, maybe you don't have money every week, as you suggested).  DCA works good for newbies who are building up their BTC holdings. and there does not tend to be any value in figuring out dips or trying to time dips, which so many guys are gong to suggest that you do.

i tend to think that ongoing, persistent, consistent, regular and perhaps even aggressive buying will likely work quite well for an overwhelming number of newbies, even if they have infrequencies in the cash availability..... and if you are employing waiting strategies, then you put yourself into a wrong mindset, even though it makes sense if you are not sure if you have enough money (extra money), then you have to wait for enough income to come in before you are able to buy.

In the end, you have to figure it out, and surely there is value to try to get some kind of a steady income coming in so that you would be able to buy BTC something like every week... just to force yourself into  good habits.. and if you are forcing yourself into good habits...

Some people in this forum are claiming that buying DIP is profitable, so they are giving more priority to DIP.So this claim of theirs is basically making me skeptical.People can say whatever they want.But I just want to clear my skepticism with an example.

I think that it is better for newbies to buy every week, and don't look at the price.  Of course, if you were buying $100 per week for 26 weeks, and then all of a sudden you got a bonus, of $1,500, then all of a sudden you have an extra 15 weeks worth of value that you could make available for buying bitcoin.  Of course a good problem to have.

And, I think that during those periods that you get the extra value, you should consider the extent to which you are going to 1) buy right away, 2) DCA and/or 3) buy on dips.

You could put $500 into each category.... and of course you also have the possibilities of putting it into your back up funds and/or the possibility of using some of it for discretionary consumption, too.

If you are thinking about each of the categories, then you can figure out how you want to allocate, and if you are ongoingly practicing, then each time that you get paid extra, you will have had figured out a system that is comfortable for you in regards to how to treat that extra money when it ends up coming in.

Recently, the price of Bitcoin is around $70k. Suppose I waited for 7-8 months hoping to buy more at DIP.

You can do what you like, but in the end, that is dumb to be waiting rather than ongoingly buying within whatever budget that you are able to muster up.. na dif you are investing for 4-10 years or longer, then it is better to build rather than to fuck around waiting and trying to be greedy and then leaving yourself whining as a low coiner and/or no coiner because you have the wrong (and unserious) mindset in regards to bitcoin..

In other words, get the fuck started...and figure out some balance in regards to how much you can buy every week, and if you feel that you don't have enough money to buy every week, then figure out how to increase your discretionary income by increasing your income and/or lowering your expenses.

Sure, if you are investing $100 per week, then maybe you decide to buy $80 per week right away and then hold $20 per week for dips (that may or may not happen) , but if you are fucking around and waiting and holding back large amounts of money rather than buying, then you are likely not very serious about building up your bitcoin stash.

We already are in an area that is a 40% dip from the top.  Sure more dip might happen, yet it also might not happen.. yet at the same time, if you are buying every week, then you can buy more bitcoin during such dip if it were to end up happening.  If it does not end up happening, then you still will be building up your bitcoin holdings rather than fucking around waiting for dips that might not happen because your waiting is putting yourself into a gambling mentality and even a whimpy (lack of commitment) approach to bitcoin.

After waiting for 1 month, the price suddenly increased to $130k. I waited more and eventually the price dropped to $90k. And this is what was called DIP. Which is much higher than the current price.

That is retarded for newbies to be concerning themselves with BTC prices.

If you are already worried that you don't have a lot of money, then it is better to ongoingly buy, since it can take 4-10 years or longer to ready build a reasonably sized bitcoin holdings.

Otherwise you are not serious, you are not in an investment mindset and you are fucking around thinking within a trading mindset, and yeah, you likely are in the wrong thread... Go to some trading thread.

So yeah, you are right.. I will get frustrated when guys are fucking around rather than really figuring out how to invest and to build up their holdings... and yeah, if you are worried about how much you are putting in, then you likely need to put in a smaller amount, and keep lowering the amount until you get  comfortable, and then when the BTC price goes shooting up, you will be whining like a little baby because you were too whimpy in the amount that you had put in... and you end up getting stuck having to buy at higher prices because you were too greedy and waiting for dips that might not happen.

I think that waiting and buying like this is more risky. Although it will not always be like this. But I had doubts about this matter.

You sound confused.  Of course, it is too risky to be fucking around waiting for dips....

The main problem that no coiners and low coiners (like yourself) have is that they are not prepared for up.

You don't prepare for up by waiting.

The only way to prepare for up is by buying..   Yeah, sure down might happen, but if you are buying every week, then you are likely able to buy during the downs if it ends up happening... If the down does not end up happening, then you have to buy at whatever the price is.

Sure, none of us has any fucking clue which way the bitcoin price is going to go in the short-to-medium term, which is a justification to just keep buying rather than adopting a dumbass approach that involves waiting.

In the end, you do what you like, and you are responsible for whatever choices you make and the consequences of such choices.

...

...

Yes you are right. Even if we all share our advice, we still have to decide what we are going to do or what will be good for us. Maybe through our advice a person will see many paths and from among those paths which one will be good for him, it is completely up to him to decide. For example if a person wants to invest and if he asks which one will be best for me. Then we can introduce him to the methods of investment, such as, DCA method, DIP method, lump sum investment method. We can inform him about these investment methods and from these methods, the method that will be beneficial for him depending on his financial situation, he needs to use that investment method. This decision is completely up to him to take.

In short, every piece of advice received from another person doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, even if it's packaged more deeply in our own minds.

Hopefully in this thread, we are neither giving or receiving advice, since every guy is responsible for his own actions in regards to bitcoin, and sure we can brain storm about ideas, argue about them and/or adopt some of the ideas in part or in total. We can also reject ideas and/or argue why they are not good.

This means that any advice received from anyone doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, because everyone who receives advice from others always has time to think and digest it before implementing it.

That means that each guy is making up his own mind about what to do  or what not to do and also taking responsibly for his actions (or his failures/refusals to act).

Because the effectiveness of a suggestion will be proven by the results achieved by the person offering it,

Huh?  Sure if we make some points we might back up our ideas with evidence, yet it might be unclear if the evidence is persuasive or not.

the method used by that person will begin to be trusted by many others in the future. However, currently, the DCA method is the most frequently used method, so quite a number of investors recommend it.

Sure.  DCA investing into bitcoin is very adaptable to almost everyone, and also it is even better if it is supplemented by strong cashflow management systems and/or practices and also tweaking the systems/practices from time to time based on active learning and active application of the ideas into ongoing practices.. perhaps weekly, if possible..

[Cossyblack]

Buying at the dip means buying when bitcoin is below the current price. That's bitcoin price is currently at $69,455 as I'm writing this post. instead, of you to buy at this price because your discretionary income is available, you didn't and choose to wait till the price of bitcoin fall to $50k before you will buy. That's what buying at the dip means.

The bad side of this strategy is that you will continue waiting for the price to reach $50k without buying and if the price did not reach that amount you wouldn't buy keeping you in a stagnate position at that moment. What if the price did not fall, you will miss out the opportunity in the market that you should have used to accumulate bitcoin with DCA every week and increase your portfolio size.

Buying at the dip limits the quantity of bitcoin that you are supposed to have accumulated assuming you kepg your DCA ongoing regularly, weekly, persistently and consistently for 4-10 years and above. There is no need waiting when you have your discretionary income. Bitcoin price movement is unpredictable making it not a good idea to wait.

Waiting for the dip before buying bitcoin is a wrong idea because what if the price of bitcoin keep going higher, that means they won't invest in bitcoin. Waiting for it to dip before buying isn't a great ideal as they might change their mind and they may never get the chance to invest in bitcoin at this rate as the current bitcoin price would be a dip in the future. If they can figure they have discretionary income to invest and apply common sense, they should invest immediately rather than wasting time waiting for the dip they aren't sure will happen.

[sotelorene]

...

...

Yes you are right. Even if we all share our advice, we still have to decide what we are going to do or what will be good for us. Maybe through our advice a person will see many paths and from among those paths which one will be good for him, it is completely up to him to decide. For example if a person wants to invest and if he asks which one will be best for me. Then we can introduce him to the methods of investment, such as, DCA method, DIP method, lump sum investment method. We can inform him about these investment methods and from these methods, the method that will be beneficial for him depending on his financial situation, he needs to use that investment method. This decision is completely up to him to take.

In short, every piece of advice received from another person doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, even if it's packaged more deeply in our own minds. This means that any advice received from anyone doesn't have to be acted upon immediately, because everyone who receives advice from others always has time to think and digest it before implementing it. Because the effectiveness of a suggestion will be proven by the results achieved by the person offering it, the method used by that person will begin to be trusted by many others in the future. However, currently, the DCA method is the most frequently used method, so quite a number of investors recommend it.

I totally agree with you on this and this has been the reason why so many newbie or beginners has made a lot ofmistakes about Bitcoin, some listen to news online while some come across influencers talking about Bitcoin in a way that doesn't seem right especially for newbie and instead of them to calculate and check what they heard they went straight to execute the idea simply because they heard of profit and profit talk is the best way to catch or lure newbie into something.

[cxtreenal]

Buying at the dip means buying when bitcoin is below the current price. That's bitcoin price is currently at $69,455 as I'm writing this post. instead, of you to buy at this price because your discretionary income is available, you didn't and choose to wait till the price of bitcoin fall to $50k before you will buy. That's what buying at the dip means.

The bad side of this strategy is that you will continue waiting for the price to reach $50k without buying and if the price did not reach that amount you wouldn't buy keeping you in a stagnate position at that moment. What if the price did not fall, you will miss out the opportunity in the market that you should have used to accumulate bitcoin with DCA every week and increase your portfolio size.

Buying at the dip limits the quantity of bitcoin that you are supposed to have accumulated assuming you kepg your DCA ongoing regularly, weekly, persistently and consistently for 4-10 years and above. There is no need waiting when you have your discretionary income. Bitcoin price movement is unpredictable making it not a good idea to wait.

Waiting for the dip before buying bitcoin is a wrong idea because what if the price of bitcoin keep going higher, that means they won't invest in bitcoin. Waiting for it to dip before buying isn't a great ideal as they might change their mind and they may never get the chance to invest in bitcoin at this rate as the current bitcoin price would be a dip in the future. If they can figure they have discretionary income to invest and apply common sense, they should invest immediately rather than wasting time waiting for the dip they aren't sure will happen.

Since the price of Bitcoin cannot be predicted in advance, it would be a mistake for someone to think that they will buy Bitcoin tomorrow. No one knows how much the price can increase in a day. If you have the available funds, you should start accumulating Bitcoin and keep going it regularly. In the future the price of Bitcoin will decrease or increase but if you can run the DCA strategy of depositing Bitcoin in every price trend as the Bitcoin holding will continue to increase, your buying price will be in a balancing state and you will be able to accumulate a large Bitcoin holding at the end of the long term accumulation process. Bitcoin investment will be a successful situation for those who will try to make profits in a short time. They will be in a continuous state of accumulating Bitcoin and try to go into a state of overaccumulation.