JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Abbatty]

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, because it help you in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children. Conclusion the same way you think your Bitcoin investment is important, that is same way your emergency fund and reserve fund is also important so don't play.

Then you are wrong, reserve fund is not the fund you set aside for your rent, children school fees or repairs but rather it is the funds you set aside to help boost boost both your emergency funds and discretionary income when the need arise.

Your rent, children fees, or even repairs are not normal expenses, these are the immediate things in your life, these are priorities, it practically the reason you work. These particular expenses is what determines if discretionary income will be high or low.

[justinlamode]

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, because it help you in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children. Conclusion the same way you think your Bitcoin investment is important, that is same way your emergency fund and reserve fund is also important so don't play.

Then you are wrong, reserve fund is not the fund you set aside for your rent, children school fees or repairs but rather it is the funds you set aside to help boost boost both your emergency funds and discretionary income when the need arise.

Your rent, children fees, or even repairs are not normal expenses, these are the immediate things in your life, these are priorities, it practically the reason you work. These particular expenses is what determines if discretionary income will be high or low.

I mostly agree with you because a clear understanding of how the finances should be distributed will not only help the investor with efficient Bitcoin accumulation, it will also ensure prudent use of whatever funds that comes in the way if the investor. Most people who struggle to invest in Bitcoin faces one things which is poor financial planning, not knowing what should be priority and what shouldn't.

If we see investing in Bitcoin as a project, then any financial inflow while definitely be managed in such a way that as soon as basic needs are met, then investing should come next. This is what I have been working on and it is really going well for me. What I only consider important are basic needs, I have cut down on every other thing so I can meet my Bitcoin investment objectives.

[Dogedegen]

We are not talking about trading in this thread.

I've seen people confused what we are talking about in other threads where we talked with the focus on this difference on trading or investment. They often bring up trading in threads that are about investing, I don't know why this happens.

Emergency funds and reserve funds are not synonyms, even though they are both kinds of back up funds. 

They are completely different pools, but I guess many people don't get this because they don't have either one of those? Maybe your circles are better, but from the people that I have known very few have an actual reserve fund. You would be surprised how many people just live paycheck to paycheck, but not because of costs. I am talking about those that earn a fair amount of money and just see spending as it comes and goes in waves, with no particular plans or allocations.

We are talking about such concepts in the context of bitcoin investing, and I would imagine if we might set goals for ourselves to build up our bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer, then we need to have various back up funds to make sure that we do not have to tap into our bitcoin at a time prior to the 4-10 years running.

4-10 years? We could start considering that as short-term and start talking about long-term periods being 10 to 20 years or more. Sometimes I see people say that a couple of years is considered long term investing, it is funny.

Emergency funds would be the last level of back up funds prior to tapping into bitcoin, and reserve funds have more flexibility to use them for whatever, whether saving up for some purchase or saving up to buy bitcoin on the dip.

Exactly, there are different pools with different purposes and then they have their own order of use in case the situation requires it.

Since investors build up their bitcoin investment and their backup funds at the same time, they likely have to figure out how much they need of each.  We frequently talk about at least 3 months, yet it could take them some time to get their back up funds to that level, and as they are building up such back up funds, they are also building up their bitcoin holdings.  I think that it would be a bit problematic for poor people to be holding 6 months of cash, even though as their bitcoin grows, it could be justifiable, but it seems like a lot of cash to be holding... so my point is that guys have to figure out how much they need to keep based on their income and/or expenses situation... and perhaps the less reliable their income/expenses, then the more back up funds they would keep.

It is possible but it is not realistic and will unlikely be a thing with most poor people based on their income, expenses and their behaviors. If they could hold 6 months of cash then they would likely be able to rise out of poverty as this would indicate significant improvements in either income or money management. I don't mean to imply that holding cash would automatically get them out of poverty, but we see the correlation between these things. So a higher earned and even more so one that is good with his financial planning will tend to have various larger reserves than a low earner. So poor people that would end up accomplishing this would probably be because something has changed in their life and they are probably not poor anymore. What happens more often in the real world is that they are living paycheck to paycheck, and barely scraping by so building up 1 thing is going to be hard and it would be even harder to build up several things simultaneously unless you want to do some very low numbers like $10 per month which is too low to get anywhere in one lifetime.

[alankasman]

We are talking about such concepts in the context of bitcoin investing, and I would imagine if we might set goals for ourselves to build up our bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer, then we need to have various back up funds to make sure that we do not have to tap into our bitcoin at a time prior to the 4-10 years running.

Determination must be made especially since someone's goal has chosen a fairly long timeframe. 4-10 years isn't a particularly short time. It's true as you mentioned that with that timeframe it's absolutely necessary to have an emergency fund that matches the specified timeframe. If the opposite doesn't happen it's better not to invest within the specified timeframe. There's no need to overthink the 4-10 year timeframe if you only have limited initial capital. Having a reserve fund (emergency fund) that serves as your initial capital is perfectly natural for them to continue investing in various ways as they no longer need to consider their needs. Furthermore choosing any length of time won't be a barrier for those investing in Bitcoin as the individual's resources are sufficient to meet all their needs.

Emergency funds would be the last level of back up funds prior to tapping into bitcoin, and reserve funds have more flexibility to use them for whatever, whether saving up for some purchase or saving up to buy bitcoin on the dip.

And that is very appropriate answer from Mas @JayJuanGee because the fund is a person's last fund when they have experienced a risk that leads to loss in carrying out their activities so that a person's revival will be seen again. This is because there is an emergency fund that makes us rise again from what we have experienced for example a boss has an emergency fund of 1 billion and his business is in a condition that is not running so that his business position is on the edge of bankruptcy to no longer be able to compete but the boss's grip is only focused on the emergency fund as a natural aid when experiencing something like the example I described earlier, so I agree with Mas @JayJuanGee where this emergency fund is a person's last reserve fund.

[Negotiation]

discretionary income
DCA
back up funds
Long time mentality

These are more important, compared to trying to pre decide every little detail in advance. And when buying Bitcoin, only when you have a strong discretionary income.

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

[JayJuanGee]

Some people does not understand its important unless the experience worst situation in life.

The point for having an emergency funds is not all about to grow their capital, but rather on how to protect their investments. Since on our investment we face lots of risk and with the help of our emergency funds it help us stabilize everything also to survive when there are sudden challenges came.

Trying to mix it up with their investment will ruin everything that's why they should separate it and know how to handle their finances well.

Its also got something to do with what economic conditions they were born into. Some people live in countries with good welfare, good benefits, good pension. Some of us tho have none of that. Totally on your own, and parents rely on you once they retire. Hence the natural logic of emergency funds... because we have no safety net.

Then again I guess the ultimate issue is people still see 'investment' as a gamble. Of course all investments are practically a gamble but gamblers see only big potential, ignore the downsides.

If you do not have enough income to generate discretionary funds that you can stock away for 4-10 years or longer, then you don't have enough income and/or you have too many expenses for you income.  You would not be able to invest if you are not able to increase your discretionary income. 

If you invest without sufficient discretionary funds, then you are gambling rather than investing, just like you mentioned.

I surely don't know how any guys are able to solve their problem of insufficient income and too many expenses.. and surely there are governments, financial institution and even status quo rich who are ongoingly plotting to keep people poor and to attack various aspects of  the normies income - and such attacks are ongoingly happening all over the world, and some regions (areas) are worse affected than other.

I don’t think your emergency funds or reserve funds is as important as your investment, these are one of the reasons some newbies delay their investment and you it never advisable  to delay investing in bitcoin. In as much as you have your discretionary income it well said that your get into investing and then the emergency and reserve funds can come after that.

Well don’t get me wrong, emergency funds is always advisable to be on the corner but never allow it delay why you invest.

I know that everybody is free to give their own opinion, but when giving our two cents in any discussion we should try and sound realistic. Because there is not point thinking that emergency fund and reserve fund is not as important as your bitcoin investment.

Emergency fund and reserve fund are just as important as your bitcoin investment, because emergency fund cover things like medical bills, job loss and unexpected expenses, without emergency fund you may be force to sell your bitcoin investment at loss or take high interest loan, emergency fund protects you from making bad financial decisions under pressure.

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, and it also help in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children. Conclusion the same way you think your Bitcoin investment is important, that is same way your emergency fund and reserve fund is also important so don't play.

Of course, back up funds are important and they are supplementing a bitcoin investment.. yet this thread is about bitcoin investing not about building up cash.  We are talking about building bitcoin, since cash is guaranteed to lose value.. so we invest into bitcoin and use cash to pay our expenses and also to protect our bitcoin, which is why we are talking about them here.  Bitcoin investing should take priority over back up funds, yet at the same time, if we are not able to get our income up to a high enough level that we have cash that we can lock away for 4-10 years or longer, then we are not able to invest in bitcoin, so surely having back up funds (or building our back up funds as we are investing in bitcoin seems a decent way to try to make potential progress, even while we know that various forms of fiat is being attacked, bitcoin is being attacked, and governments would even prefer that you keep your value in fiat rather than investing in bitcoin, which is also a reason to protect your bitcoin stash.

Since investors build up their bitcoin investment and their backup funds at the same time, they likely have to figure out how much they need of each.  We frequently talk about at least 3 months, yet it could take them some time to get their back up funds to that level, and as they are building up such back up funds, they are also building up their bitcoin holdings.  I think that it would be a bit problematic for poor people to be holding 6 months of cash, even though as their bitcoin grows, it could be justifiable, but it seems like a lot of cash to be holding... so my point is that guys have to figure out how much they need to keep based on their income and/or expenses situation... and perhaps the less reliable their income/expenses, then the more back up funds they would keep.

It is possible but it is not realistic and will unlikely be a thing with most poor people based on their income, expenses and their behaviors. If they could hold 6 months of cash then they would likely be able to rise out of poverty as this would indicate significant improvements in either income or money management.

If a poor person is building up his back up funds and his bitcoin investment at the same time, then it may take him a couple of years to get to a point that he has 3 month of expenses built up in each, and that may well be quite a great accomplishment that gives him a lot more options, including that his standard of living might be capable of being raised.. yet at the same, time the logical thing may well be to keep on building each, whether he just focuses on adding to only the bitcoin portion or he adds value to both...   Normies (including poor people) have to be responsible for their own decision, even though I know practically poor people are going to become tempted to tap into their funds rather than keeping on building them, and no one can stop them from such mistake, even though they iikely would not be considering their paying themselves as a mistake - until maybe 10 years later when they realized they fucked up and they are never going to get out of poverty based on their own inability to stop themselves from tapping into their bitcoin and/or their back up funds with too much too soon.

We are talking about such concepts in the context of bitcoin investing, and I would imagine if we might set goals for ourselves to build up our bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer, then we need to have various back up funds to make sure that we do not have to tap into our bitcoin at a time prior to the 4-10 years running.

Determination must be made especially since someone's goal has chosen a fairly long timeframe. 4-10 years isn't a particularly short time.

Of course, it is a challenge for buys to commit to 4-10 year or longer, and I would say that 10 years or longer is more likely what guys should be shooting for, and 4-10 years would be short term... and below 4 years is trading not investing.

Guys can do whatever they like, even if they feel that they cannot commit to more than 4 years, yet I am not going to consider them to be investing rather than trading.

It's true as you mentioned that with that timeframe it's absolutely necessary to have an emergency fund that matches the specified timeframe.

The back up funds help to make it possible to not tap into the bitcoin and for the investor to meet his goals... so they likely are building the back up funds as they go in the event that they do not have back up funds prior to getting started with bitcoin.

If the opposite doesn't happen it's better not to invest within the specified timeframe. There's no need to overthink the 4-10 year timeframe if you only have limited initial capital. Having a reserve fund (emergency fund) that serves as your initial capital is perfectly natural for them to continue investing in various ways as they no longer need to consider their needs. Furthermore choosing any length of time won't be a barrier for those investing in Bitcoin as the individual's resources are sufficient to meet all their needs.

Sure, guys can do whatever they like, and if they are worried about locking up a lot of value, then they can reduce the amount that they put in.

If they are fucking around trying to trade rather than invest, then they are not staying within the scope of this thread.. .and probably should talk about their trading ideas in some other thread...

Emergency funds would be the last level of back up funds prior to tapping into bitcoin, and reserve funds have more flexibility to use them for whatever, whether saving up for some purchase or saving up to buy bitcoin on the dip.

And that is very appropriate answer from Mas @JayJuanGee because the fund is a person's last fund when they have experienced a risk that leads to loss in carrying out their activities so that a person's revival will be seen again. This is because there is an emergency fund that makes us rise again from what we have experienced for example a boss has an emergency fund of 1 billion and his business is in a condition that is not running so that his business position is on the edge of bankruptcy to no longer be able to compete but the boss's grip is only focused on the emergency fund as a natural aid when experiencing something like the example I described earlier, so I agree with Mas @JayJuanGee where this emergency fund is a person's last reserve fund.

I don't know what you are talking about.  Who the fuck has a business that generates $1billion?  Let's try to figure out more realistic examples, so that we can relate to ideas of this thread.   

Sure if a person has a business, then they likely are already used to keeping various back up funds in order to keep the business going, and so they are also ONLY alble to invest in bitcoin if their income from their business is sufficient to run the business, yet they also need to receive enough income to pay their personal expenses too.  You might need to come up with a better example than the $1 billion business, especially since any business adds a level of complexity, even though the foundational idea are the same when it comes to investing in bitcoin, there needs to be discretionary income in order to have money that would be available to lock up into bitcoin.

[cyberninja2]

If a poor person is building up his back up funds and his bitcoin investment at the same time, then it may take him a couple of years to get to a point that he has 3 month of expenses built up in each, and that may well be quite a great accomplishment that gives him a lot more options, including that his standard of living might be capable of being raised.. yet at the same, time the logical thing may well be to keep on building each, whether he just focuses on adding to only the bitcoin portion or he adds value to both...   Normies (including poor people) have to be responsible for their own decision, even though I know practically poor people are going to become tempted to tap into their funds rather than keeping on building them, and no one can stop them from such mistake, even though they iikely would not be considering their paying themselves as a mistake - until maybe 10 years later when they realized they fucked up and they are never going to get out of poverty based on their own inability to stop themselves from tapping into their bitcoin and/or their back up funds with too much too soon.

The question is does a situation like this not place an undue burden on the individual involved?

In my view while such a situation might be extremely arduous it could potentially be manageable for someone who possesses sufficient income adequate both for covering necessary expenses and for funding the activities in question. However speaking personally I believe this scenario severely restricts our freedom to engage in activities other than this specific one particularly for individuals as you mentioned who fall into the low income bracket. The exception would be those who straddle the line into the middle income category for them I believe there is an 80% probability that they would be able to successfully manage it.

If one chooses to make such a decision, I feel it is absolutely imperative that they are capable of balancing the demands of that choice. Furthermore come what may they must not complain about the consequences of the path they have chosen. This is because generally speaking those in the low-income category often struggle to sustain their endeavors. Broadly speaking the decision they have made must be executed with maximum effort and dedication so that they may ultimately join the ranks of those who have successfully realized the outcomes of the choices they carefully deliberated upon.

[Ashawowo(OS)]

Emergency fund and reserve fund are just as important as your bitcoin investment, because emergency fund cover things like medical bills, job loss

Medical bills are part of your expenses, if you've a schedule with the doctor for a particular month, then you should factor it in the expenses for that month and if necessities like groceries, gas refill, and servicing some appliance would fall in the next month, then it should be part of the expenses projection for the month.

and unexpected expenses.

There is an extent which this is taken from your emergency fund, if the expenses is not so much, you can cover it from your reserve funds and leave out your emergency fund from it. The emergency fund should be your last resort not to tap into your bitcoin portfolio

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, and it also help in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children.

You said it yourself here, but you don't really get it. The above mentioned part of your expenses and not your reserve funds.
Reserve funds are for discretionary spending, savings, or even to handle little emergencies that comes up without touching to your emergency fund.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

Emergency fund and reserve fund are just as important as your bitcoin investment, because emergency fund cover things like medical bills, job loss and unexpected expenses, without emergency fund you may be force to sell your bitcoin investment at loss or take high interest loan, emergency fund protects you from making bad financial decisions under pressure.

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, and it also help in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children. Conclusion the same way you think your Bitcoin investment is important, that is same way your emergency fund and reserve fund is also important so don't play.

I think your main problem Joy- maker is that you do not fully understand how expenses are extracted from gross income and how discretionary income is identified, I'll try to break it down a little.

There are normal living expenses and there are periodic expenses and all must be accounted for before you conclude to having discretionary income to invest into bitcoin.

Let's say you earn $1000 monthly and the cost of settling your monthly family needs like, feeding, transportation, clothing, e.t.c costs you $400 monthly(which can still vary), the other $600 isn't immediately your discretionary income. If your rent is $800 yearly, you use $200 for family medical checkups quarterly and your kids school fees is $2000 yearly and gas refill plus house appliance mantenance costs you $400 yearly, it is important you sum your other expenses which is $2000 + $600 + $(200*3) + $400 = $3600, now this $3600 you can choose to divide it by 12 to allocate funds to them on a monthly basis which would be $300 monthly.

Now, every month you've $700 or more as an expenses budget (depending on the variation of normal expenses or the emmergence of another periodic expense to be considered) and for little tolerance, you can remove $750 instead which after taking care of the expenses, you can redirect the remainder to your discretionary income, thereby leaving roughly $250 as your discretionary income monthly from which you can invest into bitcoin and build out backup funds.

[Joeboy]

~snip

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

Are you sure you actually read what Saltysugar99 said before coming up with all of these assumptions? If you did you will very well know that Saltysugar99 wasn't against staring small, infact he was in support of it...What he was actually against was excessive planning prior to getting started... Excessive planning prior to starting out are actual time waster and will only delay folks from getting started...The point is that nothing is actually fixed- the price of Bitcoin is volatile i.e it changes frequently, even our income could change overtime, same goes for our conviction level and whatnot and this is why crafting the perfect plan before starting could be very counterproductive... And so it's best that folks start out as soon as their discretionary income is available regardless of whether the amount is small and then make the necessary adjustments by applying flexible to ensure the continuity of their investments whenever any of these changes occurs...

[Olatundespo]

discretionary income
DCA
back up funds
Long time mentality

These are more important, compared to trying to pre decide every little detail in advance. And when buying Bitcoin, only when you have a strong discretionary income.

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

Here is the issue of your discretionary income availability. If you do not have discretionary income every week or month, it is better not to invest in Bitcoin. A person may be poor but his main responsibility is to meet the needs of his family. The remaining funds after meeting the financial needs of his family are discretionary income. If you have that ability you should start accumulation Bitcoin and if you do not have that financial ability try to increase your source of income and start.

If you have $30 left over after meeting your family expenses and additional personal expenses, you can accumulate Bitcoin with $20 from there. This is an initial level to start investing in Bitcoin. In the long term, you should continue to accumulate Bitcoin for 2-3 cycles (4-10 years) through discretionary income through the DCA method.

If you don't have the financial security, such as a discretionary income stream to invest in Bitcoin for the long term then unless your Bitcoin holdings mature you may have to withdraw them at an emergency stage which could result in your losses. That's why it's best not to invest in Bitcoin unless you have a discretionary income stream.

[Crytohillss]

Some people does not understand its important unless the experience worst situation in life.

The point for having an emergency funds is not all about to grow their capital, but rather on how to protect their investments. Since on our investment we face lots of risk and with the help of our emergency funds it help us stabilize everything also to survive when there are sudden challenges came.

Trying to mix it up with their investment will ruin everything that's why they should separate it and know how to handle their finances well.

Its also got something to do with what economic conditions they were born into. Some people live in countries with good welfare, good benefits, good pension. Some of us tho have none of that. Totally on your own, and parents rely on you once they retire. Hence the natural logic of emergency funds... because we have no safety net.

Then again I guess the ultimate issue is people still see 'investment' as a gamble. Of course all investments are practically a gamble but gamblers see only big potential, ignore the downsides.

If you do not have enough income to generate discretionary funds that you can stock away for 4-10 years or longer, then you don't have enough income and/or you have too many expenses for you income.  You would not be able to invest if you are not able to increase your discretionary income. 

If you invest without sufficient discretionary funds, then you are gambling rather than investing, just like you mentioned.

I surely don't know how any guys are able to solve their problem of insufficient income and too many expenses.. and surely there are governments, financial institution and even status quo rich who are ongoingly plotting to keep people poor and to attack various aspects of  the normies income - and such attacks are ongoingly happening all over the world, and some regions (areas) are worse affected than other.

I don’t think your emergency funds or reserve funds is as important as your investment, these are one of the reasons some newbies delay their investment and you it never advisable  to delay investing in bitcoin. In as much as you have your discretionary income it well said that your get into investing and then the emergency and reserve funds can come after that.

Well don’t get me wrong, emergency funds is always advisable to be on the corner but never allow it delay why you invest.

I know that everybody is free to give their own opinion, but when giving our two cents in any discussion we should try and sound realistic. Because there is not point thinking that emergency fund and reserve fund is not as important as your bitcoin investment.

Emergency fund and reserve fund are just as important as your bitcoin investment, because emergency fund cover things like medical bills, job loss and unexpected expenses, without emergency fund you may be force to sell your bitcoin investment at loss or take high interest loan, emergency fund protects you from making bad financial decisions under pressure.

Reserve fund on the other hand helps you stay financially stable without touching your bitcoin investment, and it also help in settling expenses such as rent, repairs and school fees for your children. Conclusion the same way you think your Bitcoin investment is important, that is same way your emergency fund and reserve fund is also important so don't play.

Of course, back up funds are important and they are supplementing a bitcoin investment.. yet this thread is about bitcoin investing not about building up cash.  We are talking about building bitcoin, since cash is guaranteed to lose value.. so we invest into bitcoin and use cash to pay our expenses and also to protect our bitcoin, which is why we are talking about them here.  Bitcoin investing should take priority over back up funds, yet at the same time, if we are not able to get our income up to a high enough level that we have cash that we can lock away for 4-10 years or longer, then we are not able to invest in bitcoin, so surely having back up funds (or building our back up funds as we are investing in bitcoin seems a decent way to try to make potential progress, even while we know that various forms of fiat is being attacked, bitcoin is being attacked, and governments would even prefer that you keep your value in fiat rather than investing in bitcoin, which is also a reason to protect your bitcoin stash.

Since investors build up their bitcoin investment and their backup funds at the same time, they likely have to figure out how much they need of each.  We frequently talk about at least 3 months, yet it could take them some time to get their back up funds to that level, and as they are building up such back up funds, they are also building up their bitcoin holdings.  I think that it would be a bit problematic for poor people to be holding 6 months of cash, even though as their bitcoin grows, it could be justifiable, but it seems like a lot of cash to be holding... so my point is that guys have to figure out how much they need to keep based on their income and/or expenses situation... and perhaps the less reliable their income/expenses, then the more back up funds they would keep.

It is possible but it is not realistic and will unlikely be a thing with most poor people based on their income, expenses and their behaviors. If they could hold 6 months of cash then they would likely be able to rise out of poverty as this would indicate significant improvements in either income or money management.

If a poor person is building up his back up funds and his bitcoin investment at the same time, then it may take him a couple of years to get to a point that he has 3 month of expenses built up in each, and that may well be quite a great accomplishment that gives him a lot more options, including that his standard of living might be capable of being raised.. yet at the same, time the logical thing may well be to keep on building each, whether he just focuses on adding to only the bitcoin portion or he adds value to both...   Normies (including poor people) have to be responsible for their own decision, even though I know practically poor people are going to become tempted to tap into their funds rather than keeping on building them, and no one can stop them from such mistake, even though they iikely would not be considering their paying themselves as a mistake - until maybe 10 years later when they realized they fucked up and they are never going to get out of poverty based on their own inability to stop themselves from tapping into their bitcoin and/or their back up funds with too much too soon.

We are talking about such concepts in the context of bitcoin investing, and I would imagine if we might set goals for ourselves to build up our bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer, then we need to have various back up funds to make sure that we do not have to tap into our bitcoin at a time prior to the 4-10 years running.

Determination must be made especially since someone's goal has chosen a fairly long timeframe. 4-10 years isn't a particularly short time.

Of course, it is a challenge for buys to commit to 4-10 year or longer, and I would say that 10 years or longer is more likely what guys should be shooting for, and 4-10 years would be short term... and below 4 years is trading not investing.

Guys can do whatever they like, even if they feel that they cannot commit to more than 4 years, yet I am not going to consider them to be investing rather than trading.

It's true as you mentioned that with that timeframe it's absolutely necessary to have an emergency fund that matches the specified timeframe.

The back up funds help to make it possible to not tap into the bitcoin and for the investor to meet his goals... so they likely are building the back up funds as they go in the event that they do not have back up funds prior to getting started with bitcoin.

If the opposite doesn't happen it's better not to invest within the specified timeframe. There's no need to overthink the 4-10 year timeframe if you only have limited initial capital. Having a reserve fund (emergency fund) that serves as your initial capital is perfectly natural for them to continue investing in various ways as they no longer need to consider their needs. Furthermore choosing any length of time won't be a barrier for those investing in Bitcoin as the individual's resources are sufficient to meet all their needs.

Sure, guys can do whatever they like, and if they are worried about locking up a lot of value, then they can reduce the amount that they put in.

If they are fucking around trying to trade rather than invest, then they are not staying within the scope of this thread.. .and probably should talk about their trading ideas in some other thread...

Emergency funds would be the last level of back up funds prior to tapping into bitcoin, and reserve funds have more flexibility to use them for whatever, whether saving up for some purchase or saving up to buy bitcoin on the dip.

And that is very appropriate answer from Mas @JayJuanGee because the fund is a person's last fund when they have experienced a risk that leads to loss in carrying out their activities so that a person's revival will be seen again. This is because there is an emergency fund that makes us rise again from what we have experienced for example a boss has an emergency fund of 1 billion and his business is in a condition that is not running so that his business position is on the edge of bankruptcy to no longer be able to compete but the boss's grip is only focused on the emergency fund as a natural aid when experiencing something like the example I described earlier, so I agree with Mas @JayJuanGee where this emergency fund is a person's last reserve fund.

I don't know what you are talking about.  Who the fuck has a business that generates $1billion?  Let's try to figure out more realistic examples, so that we can relate to ideas of this thread.   

Sure if a person has a business, then they likely are already used to keeping various back up funds in order to keep the business going, and so they are also ONLY alble to invest in bitcoin if their income from their business is sufficient to run the business, yet they also need to receive enough income to pay their personal expenses too.  You might need to come up with a better example than the $1 billion business, especially since any business adds a level of complexity, even though the foundational idea are the same when it comes to investing in bitcoin, there needs to be discretionary income in order to have money that would be available to lock up into bitcoin.

Investment without a safety cushion can really turn into gambling but if people think the situation is completely hopeless either while there are definitely interested challenges and rising costs putting pressure on the individual focusing on what's with in one limit still matters a lot building skills managing expenses where possible and gradually creating room to investment if it is little it's not easy especially in rough Time but little consistent steps can still make really big difference over time.

[Big Dirams]

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

Investing in bitcoin is absolutely a good idea and afterall we know that we are investing in a valuable asset which has high potentials. Let not sit back and wait till we make high amount of money before we can start to think of investing in bitcoin, we can invest in bitcoin even with our little funds. If we try our possible best and make provision for discretionary funds then our investment journey can start as soon as possible and we wouldn’t have to worry about waiting for big funds to come before we can invest in bitcoin.
  DCA method has help us to understand that it not until one has huge funds before we can invest, with little money we can invest, no more procrastination. But the one thing we need to put into consideration is aiming for future growth not short term profits, have the mindset of long term growth and enjoy the investment journey.

[Abbatty]

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

Investing in bitcoin is absolutely a good idea and afterall we know that we are investing in a valuable asset which has high potentials. Let not sit back and wait till we make high amount of money before we can start to think of investing in bitcoin, we can invest in bitcoin even with our little funds. If we try our possible best and make provision for discretionary funds then our investment journey can start as soon as possible and we wouldn’t have to worry about waiting for big funds to come before we can invest in bitcoin.
  DCA method has help us to understand that it not until one has huge funds before we can invest, with little money we can invest, no more procrastination. But the one thing we need to put into consideration is aiming for future growth not short term profits, have the mindset of long term growth and enjoy the investment journey.

I believe anyone engaging in this thread should know the basic reason why they should invest in bitcoin, so seeing people talking about the possible reasons why they should invest in bitcoin seems like they are in the wrong thread. In this thread we speak about investment ideas, we speak about how you should try to hold on your investment for as long as possible.

[Showlove01]

discretionary income
DCA
back up funds
Long time mentality

These are more important, compared to trying to pre decide every little detail in advance. And when buying Bitcoin, only when you have a strong discretionary income.

Although I agree with you on other points, I do not agree with your opinion on buying Bitcoin. Because here, those who have low income can buy a small amount of Bitcoin and save it for a long time and invest it. Here, it is best to invest on capacity. I do not believe that those who have low income will not buy Bitcoin. Because those who have low income can also buy Bitcoin and invest it. But I think it is more important to invest in Bitcoin, even if it is small.

We don't really need a strong discretionary income before we can start our Bitcoin investment though it is good to have a strong discretionary because it is through that we can be aggressive or front load when there is Dip but it is not a criteria or a must to have a strong discretionary income before kick starting our Bitcoin investment. This is actually a misconception, some people don't really get the information right and it can be very disastrous if it is not been changed or corrected.

[Sim_card]

If you do not have discretionary income every week or month, it is better not to invest in Bitcoin.

Anyone without a regular weekly/monthly discretionary can still invest in bitcoin and not a must that you should have regular discretionary income before investing in bitcoin.

Some people don't have up to $10 discretionary income at once, due to their high monthly expenses so, such people can use up to two months to get $10 as their discretionary income by saving it in two months. They can buy bitcoin when the $10 is available as they're doing that, they can look for mean to improve their income by getting a second job or improve their skills for a higher pay or learn a course to have more discretionary income so that they can consistently DCA overtime.

Your discretionary income mustn't be from your salary. If you are given money as a gift that you don't have any need for, you can buy bitcoin with it and hodli till when you can buy again. The most important thing is that, any bitcoin you buy shouldn't be sold.

[Finebone]

We don't really need a strong discretionary income before we can start our Bitcoin investment though it is good to have a strong discretionary because it is through that we can be aggressive or front load when there is Dip but it is not a criteria or a must to have a strong discretionary income before kick starting our Bitcoin investment. This is actually a misconception, some people don't really get the information right and it can be very disastrous if it is not been changed or corrected.

I don't really get your idea of strong discretionary income, but what I have come to understand is that a discretionary income is what you need, in other to invest in bitcoin consistently, you don't need to start big, all your just need is to do it consistently, either weekly or monthly and while doing it, you should be making provisions for your emergency and reserve funds, so that your Bitcoin investment wouldn't be vulnerable to any emergency situation that would have made you temper with it, even when you never wanted to.

So once your discretionary income is up to $10, you can start and look for ways you can improve your source of discretionary income, so that you can be more aggressive in your accumulation, but take not that it's not mandatory that you must be aggressive in your accumulation, let it not later be a problem in your ability to take proper care of your basic needs.

[slaman29]

Its also got something to do with what economic conditions they were born into. Some people live in countries with good welfare, good benefits, good pension. Some of us tho have none of that. Totally on your own, and parents rely on you once they retire. Hence the natural logic of emergency funds... because we have no safety net.

Then again I guess the ultimate issue is people still see 'investment' as a gamble. Of course all investments are practically a gamble but gamblers see only big potential, ignore the downsides.

If you do not have enough income to generate discretionary funds that you can stock away for 4-10 years or longer, then you don't have enough income and/or you have too many expenses for you income.  You would not be able to invest if you are not able to increase your discretionary income. 

If you invest without sufficient discretionary funds, then you are gambling rather than investing, just like you mentioned.

I surely don't know how any guys are able to solve their problem of insufficient income and too many expenses.. and surely there are governments, financial institution and even status quo rich who are ongoingly plotting to keep people poor and to attack various aspects of  the normies income - and such attacks are ongoingly happening all over the world, and some regions (areas) are worse affected than other.

That sort of logic is not what a lot of younger people (or even those my age of late 30s early 40s) believe in. They see things in periods of 1 year, 2 or 3 max. So they end up for example selling BTC before a full year cycle because the 'investment failed'. I like this word 'discretionary income' here we say 'disposable income' but I think yours is more accurate when I think about it. Kinda reflects the way our societies think

About governments and status quo? I fully believe they are after you, after us, and don't have our interests. Despite proof all the time that this is true, still many believe the government is good towards them. This is the feeling displayed each election here.

[Cyber_warrior]

If you do not have discretionary income every week or month, it is better not to invest in Bitcoin.

Anyone without a regular weekly/monthly discretionary can still invest in bitcoin and not a must that you should have regular discretionary income before investing in bitcoin.

Some people don't have up to $10 discretionary income at once, due to their high monthly expenses so, such people can use up to two months to get $10 as their discretionary income by saving it in two months. They can buy bitcoin when the $10 is available as they're doing that, they can look for mean to improve their income by getting a second job or improve their skills for a higher pay or learn a course to have more discretionary income so that they can consistently DCA overtime.

Your discretionary income mustn't be from your salary. If you are given money as a gift that you don't have any need for, you can buy bitcoin with it and hodli till when you can buy again. The most important thing is that, any bitcoin you buy shouldn't be sold.

That's right, DCA is about maintaining consistency in your investment and it is very important but it is not compulsory or a rule to invest weekly or monthly or in the same time frame or invest a fixed amount as you have planned. Sometimes you might not be able to have the fixed amount of discretionary income you have planned to invest consistently so it is also not a must to get the fixed amount. When you are not able to get the fixed amount of discretionary income within the time frame you can invest any amount, all that matters is to invest consistently. And when you don't have sustainable income you don't necessarily have to meet your fixed target. DCA has made investing easy you just make sure your basic needs are met and invest with discretionary income.

We don't really need a strong discretionary income before we can start our Bitcoin investment though it is good to have a strong discretionary because it is through that we can be aggressive or front load when there is Dip but it is not a criteria or a must to have a strong discretionary income before kick starting our Bitcoin investment. This is actually a misconception, some people don't really get the information right and it can be very disastrous if it is not been changed or corrected.

I don't really get your idea of strong discretionary income, but what I have come to understand is that a discretionary income is what you need, in other to invest in bitcoin consistently, you don't need to start big, all your just need is to do it consistently, either weekly or monthly and while doing it, you should be making provisions for your emergency and reserve funds, so that your Bitcoin investment wouldn't be vulnerable to any emergency situation that would have made you temper with it, even when you never wanted to.

So once your discretionary income is up to $10, you can start and look for ways you can improve your source of discretionary income, so that you can be more aggressive in your accumulation, but take not that it's not mandatory that you must be aggressive in your accumulation, let it not later be a problem in your ability to take proper care of your basic needs.

To invest you don't necessarily have to start big. With DCA you can start small and invest consistently and before you realize you will have accumulated a lot of Bitcoin. Many people underestimate the necessity of having emergency funds and reserve fund. They are very important because without them any unexpected situation could force you to sell your Bitcoin at the wrong time. They serve as protection to your investment so that you can stay committed. No need to be aggressive if your income doesn't allow you to be aggressive comfortably.

[nara1892]

It's true as you mentioned that with that timeframe it's absolutely necessary to have an emergency fund that matches the specified timeframe.

The back up funds help to make it possible to not tap into the bitcoin and for the investor to meet his goals... so they likely are building the back up funds as they go in the event that they do not have back up funds prior to getting started with bitcoin.

Very helpful and very important. In my opinion, a reserve fund is one of the things that must be considered, prepared, and never forgotten if someone wants to get involved in Bitcoin accumulation. You've already stated the goal: if something unexpected happens in life that requires you to spend money, your Bitcoin accumulation will remain safe because of the reserve fund; you won't need to sell it.
This strategy or preparation is very helpful for investors in achieving their goal of maximizing long-term profits.