JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[ultrloa]

Long term is not the only way to profit from Bitcoin, this is where beginners must understand their own goals and strategies. Simply put, long-term investments can be more stable and promising, but trading can also be an option if they understand the risks. So, transmission depends on the choice and understanding of the strategy used, because in my opinion, that is the main key in both investment and trading.

Trading isn't a good option for anyone especially, brand new investors whether, understanding the risk or not, or having the right strategies because in the long run, they will all end up in losses because traders think they're smarter and can make with the price wave of bitcoin unknown to them that they're gambling.

Long-term investment is the key to bitcoin investment because it gives you the opportunity to build and grow your bitcoin portfolio overtime while, you continue learning about bitcoin and how to have a good cash inflow management. With your discretionary income and the basic knowledge of bitcoin, you can get started.

Long-term investment has limited risk than trading. No matter the strategies that you use to trade, losses are inevitable.

Yeah and I agree with that since there's huge risk beneath for trading a volatile coin like Bitcoin, since even if we say they already have good experience dealing with it losing if sudden unwanted changes is inevitable. That's why even me I don't recommend trading to my friends especially if they can't afford to take the risk. Since I know they eventually lose especially if they don't pay much attention on what they are doing.

Its been proven for long time and many times in history that that Bitcoin is good to be hold for many years or a decade. Its just there are people want to play with fire and realize that people suggesting them that long term investment is good when they already taste a bad faith for losing money on their trades.

[Rockson1]

Long term is not the only way to profit from Bitcoin, this is where beginners must understand their own goals and strategies. Simply put, long-term investments can be more stable and promising, but trading can also be an option if they understand the risks. So, transmission depends on the choice and understanding of the strategy used, because in my opinion, that is the main key in both investment and trading.
Personally, I prefer to see beginners choose long-term investment methods because this strategy has been proven (many investors have succeeded) because its high volatility makes trading riskier. It's best for beginners to understand the basics of Bitcoin before deciding whether to become an investor or a trader. It's also important to set up an emergency fund, determine your investment goals, and don't forget to never invest more than you can afford to lose.

So you're preaching trading, it means you are deviating from what we are discusing here, BTW, can you tell us how much you been able to make though trading? Too bad that you have been here for sometime and all you could figure out is suggest trading option for newbies, how does that correlate with what we ducusong, must of us and @JayJuanGee are busy trying to make sure that newbies and e every other investor does not go astray or while investing into Bitcoin and you are here trying to bring in thread to the discussion, if trading was as profitable as must if you guys present it, I do not think people will even want to talk about it much, they would have hide the secret but man trading is never an option for me or any newbie, but long-term is, the sweetness of Bitcoin investment is on a long-term, the best option is acumulating Bitcoin for a long-term with the most efficient and flexible strategy DCA consistently and hodling for a long-term, please do not mislead anybody, in as much as I know that we got our decisions, I will also want to say that trading is shit to me and is not something that we should discuss to the hearing of any intending investor, so let's cut the crap and face the real thing.

[Barikui1]

Long term is not the only way to profit from Bitcoin, this is where beginners must understand their own goals and strategies. Simply put, long-term investments can be more stable and promising, but trading can also be an option if they understand the risks. So, transmission depends on the choice and understanding of the strategy used, because in my opinion, that is the main key in both investment and trading.

This is the perfect examples or reason how people decides to lose money thinking that they are doing the right thing because they always think that trading is an alternative way to make money in the space, not knowing that in trading, because you make $10, you might have lost $50 in the process, and all these started with the inability to be patient with their investment, they are only interested in making quick money without looking at the high risk attached to it, even though they knows that investment in Bitcoin is more safer and reliable.
Funny enough, out of a number of 100 traders, it's like only 2 that will be profitable, because it's one of the most difficult craft in the world, and since traders are very good at lying, they will never tell you how they are always at the losing end, so I urge you Razmirraz, if you are hell bent on sabotaging your finances, try not to encourage others in going the same route.

[cyberninja2]

If a brand new investor wants to start his bitcoin investment and already has some kind of backup funds on ground, he can focus on buying bitcoin more aggressively. However, it depends on the amount of emergency funds available. If he already has up to three months of his expenses, he should focus on using 70% of his discretionary income to invest into and use 30% for his discretionary consumption.

Well this is a very appropriate answer that makes me more motivated when someone says something like our discussion because sometimes many people don't understand but the discussion itself is a bit difficult. Maybe this is our discussion being a motivation for everyone especially for those who are still beginners, but from the concept of investing it is very feasible. This is based on what they have of course it is no longer a problem because they are very ready for the needs needed to start investing both financially and mentally they are very strong when later when investing by using DCA to accumulate the amount they do through the DCA method for the long term.

Actually the division as you said is necessary because even though everything is complete in investing you still have to set aside a little for interests that may occur unexpectedly so with the amount of 30% for consumption interests and the rest for investment because things are done like this because there are many things that are prioritized and don't feel like you are ready but we still set aside for personal interests because when something like that happens I think it's difficult for us to predict so we just prepare while waiting for the results of the 70% that we have invested.

[Itz-prisigold]

Actually the division as you said is necessary because even though everything is complete in investing you still have to set aside a little for interests that may occur unexpectedly so with the amount of 30% for consumption interests and the rest for investment because things are done like this because there are many things that are prioritized and don't feel like you are ready but we still set aside for personal interests because when something like that happens I think it's difficult for us to predict so we just prepare while waiting for the results of the 70% that we have invested.

No one is saying that you should invest all of you income into Bitcoin. The idea of investing in Bitcoin has always been simple, when your income is available first thing you need to do is to take care of your necessary expenses first, then whatever that is left with you, which is your discretionary income is what you use to invest in Bitcoin. When you do it that way,  you will not be putting yourself under any pressure or risking your basic needs.

This part of using a fixed percentage like to 30% and 70% might sound very simple for you but it does not really work that way for others, because everyone's income level,  expenses and responsibilities are different. So if everyone applies a fixed split in their income, that can easily put some people in a position where they might either over investing or might even be neglecting important needs.

while waiting for the results of the 70% that we have invested.

I think you need to correct this your idea of waiting for results because that actually lean too much on expecting outcome based thinking. You don't come into Bitcoin investment with a mindset of setting aside a percentage and be expecting it to produce results, you should be thinking about building a position gradually.

So a more practical way to approach Bitcoin, is for you to first understand your own cashflow,  then cover your necessary expenses,  try to maintain a proper backup funds and only use you discretionary income to accumulate Bitcoin consistently, when you do it this way, your investment journey will not be depending on a fixed formula or expectations,  but in what you can actually sustain long term.

[Qhunman]

This is the perfect examples or reason how people decides to lose money thinking that they are doing the right thing because they always think that trading is an alternative way to make money in the space, not knowing that in trading, because you make $10, you might have lost $50 in the process, and all these started with the inability to be patient with their investment, they are only interested in making quick money without looking at the high risk attached to it, even though they knows that investment in Bitcoin is more safer and reliable.
Funny enough, out of a number of 100 traders, it's like only 2 that will be profitable, because it's one of the most difficult craft in the world, and since traders are very good at lying, they will never tell you how they are always at the losing end, so I urge you Razmirraz, if you are hell bent on sabotaging your finances, try not to encourage others in going the same route.

Honestly I have never encounter a trader who has told peoples the truth about trading. They actually don't because they know people won't join trading if they know risky is it. These traders would preach how you can make $1000 everyday through trading without telling you about the losses. If they tell people the honest truth about trading,do you think people would agree to go ahead with it?. The truth is nobody would want to waste money becuse losses is inevitable. Infact trading is the weirdest way to make money you can't make it when your losses are greater than you gains. For me trading is a waste of resources and time, considering the losses, I cannot encourage anyone to go into trading.

[Zackz5000]

That so inappropriate of me  though but wasn’t really creating a requirement though you got me wrong though. Was just giving some positive suggestions about how to make successful outcome from bitcoin investment though and we all know that having a long term mindset helps to push away our mindset from daily market volatility.

Of course, long term is the right idea and it is better, yet it is not a requirement that newbies have that figured out before they get started.  We can agree to disagree, since I am not going to agree with you about having a long term to be a requirement because people can do whatever they like and if they are planning to trade rather than invest, then I may well tell them that long is preferable and long is investing rather than trading, but they have to choose their timeline, figure it out and learn from the consequences if they try to trade in bitcoin rather than treating bitcoin like an investment.

Long term is not the only way to profit from Bitcoin, this is where beginners must understand their own goals and strategies. Simply put, long-term investments can be more stable and promising, but trading can also be an option if they understand the risks. So, transmission depends on the choice and understanding of the strategy used, because in my opinion, that is the main key in both investment and trading.
Personally, I prefer to see beginners choose long-term investment methods because this strategy has been proven (many investors have succeeded) because its high volatility makes trading riskier. It's best for beginners to understand the basics of Bitcoin before deciding whether to become an investor or a trader. It's also important to set up an emergency fund, determine your investment goals, and don't forget to never invest more than you can afford to lose.

Newbies who come into Bitcoin investment with a trading mentality may not grow rapidly in accumulation due to the fact that they buy and sell instead of HODLing which is the real deal when it comes to Bitcoin investment. No doubts that sometimes, traders can make gains, but little gains, but am sure those gains cannot be compared to an investor who bought and HODL for years or circles. Perhaps, anyone can do whatever they like with there finances, but investment is better off than trading. If he invests, he has the chances of learning better, understanding better the investment and knowing how to manage him income and allocation to ensure he HODLs for long term which increases his portfolio over time. While on the other hand, trading is just aimed at immediate gains and rise in price without planning for the future and your possession. I think investors shouldn't be decieved by the little gains trading offers in the moment, but should rather concentrate on building a large or better portfolio for themselves through investment plan. The risk involved in trading is just too much and may consume your investment if you run out of luck

Trading shouldn't be an option at all people should discard trading in Bitcoin investment most expecially new investors who are supposed to be accumulating Bitcoin and hodl now begin to buy and sell in a short time it doesn't make any sense. Traders do make gains that's true but when they loss they loss big and you won't hear them saying anything about it , thr the risk in trading is much new investor should run from it and think of how to build a good Bitcoin portfolio by consistently accumulating Bitcoin and hodl for years about 4-10 years.

[Joeboy]

Dude you are on the  line and I agree with you, despite some investors have tried the both bitcoin trading and bitcoin investment they cannot advise any newbies to begin thier cryptocurrency journey with trading, because  I see trading as a gambling, this is something that has higher risks, due to its approaches that is, buying and sell within a short period of time, I believe the trading actually offers a potential rapid gain or profits, but it's more riskier, so anyone that cannot exercise patience in accumulating bitcoin gradually or having mindset of buying bitcoin and holding it for long-term periods for like several years, aiming for long-term returns, definitely the person cannot invest in Bitcoin, but can go for trading with higher risks. However in terms of profitability, both are profitable but instead of risking it on trading, it's better to invest in Bitcoin that's risk worthy for a long-term asset for your own comfort.

First of, this surely a Bitcoin thread, and not a crypto thread, so you gats be very careful with your choice of words.. And despite the fact that you kicked against trading, I still don't think it is even appropriate to still come up with the assumptions that trading is profitable... I mean you said it yourself that trading is like gambling, so why then are you still claiming that trading is profitable when the losses incurred is mostly way above the few profit that is gotten... When folks are considering profitability/or having a good ROI, then long term investment should be what they should venture into ...

[Humblevirus]

This is the perfect examples or reason how people decides to lose money thinking that they are doing the right thing because they always think that trading is an alternative way to make money in the space, not knowing that in trading, because you make $10, you might have lost $50 in the process, and all these started with the inability to be patient with their investment, they are only interested in making quick money without looking at the high risk attached to it, even though they knows that investment in Bitcoin is more safer and reliable.
Funny enough, out of a number of 100 traders, it's like only 2 that will be profitable, because it's one of the most difficult craft in the world, and since traders are very good at lying, they will never tell you how they are always at the losing end, so I urge you Razmirraz, if you are hell bent on sabotaging your finances, try not to encourage others in going the same route.

Honestly I have never encounter a trader who has told peoples the truth about trading. They actually don't because they know people won't join trading if they know risky is it. These traders would preach how you can make $1000 everyday through trading without telling you about the losses. If they tell people the honest truth about trading,do you think people would agree to go ahead with it?. The truth is nobody would want to waste money becuse losses is inevitable. Infact trading is the weirdest way to make money you can't make it when your losses are greater than you gains. For me trading is a waste of resources and time, considering the losses, I cannot encourage anyone to go into trading.

That is the fact,It is very hard for someone to see a trader who will speak the truth about their loss experiences in trading. They only talk about their profit experiences, which they hype.Most of those traders are just covering up. Some of them have other sources of income places where they are actually making money but they claim it is from trading, which is not true.Most traders lie, and it is all because they want people to subscribe to their YouTube channels and follow them on their social media pages, so they can make money from them again.In fact, many of those who have followed them and learned one or two things about trading are also complaining that it is a lie. Some traders are not truly making money from trading as they claim, but from other sources.In fact, many people who have lost money in trading are saying that about 90% of traders are losing money.so, let get it clearly that trading is very risky, and it is an easy way to lose money.

[justinlamode]

Trading shouldn't be an option at all people should discard trading in Bitcoin investment most expecially new investors who are supposed to be accumulating Bitcoin and hodl now begin to buy and sell in a short time it doesn't make any sense. Traders do make gains that's true but when they loss they loss big and you won't hear them saying anything about it , thr the risk in trading is much new investor should run from it and think of how to build a good Bitcoin portfolio by consistently accumulating Bitcoin and hodl for years about 4-10 years.

Gradually the discussion is derailing in that most people are talking about trading which is not appropriate.  The more we emphasis this trading, the more we are giving it a voice and some newbie here might get their curiosity aroused as a results. Hence, I would love us to refocus the discussion to Bitcoin accumulation which is what we all wants to do efficiently.

As the topic says, this is a guide to Bitcoin investment, JJG have done extensive job in creating this guide which is very useful to even people are just getting started with their Bitcoin journey. I think we should pay more attention to the implementation of the steps outlined and then commit everything to the time requirements  so that we can achieve our Bitcoin accumulation objectives.

[Brizi5000]

Long term is not the only way to profit from Bitcoin, this is where beginners must understand their own goals and strategies. Simply put, long-term investments can be more stable and promising, but trading can also be an option if they understand the risks. So, transmission depends on the choice and understanding of the strategy used, because in my opinion, that is the main key in both investment and trading.

This is the perfect examples or reason how people decides to lose money thinking that they are doing the right thing because they always think that trading is an alternative way to make money in the space, not knowing that in trading, because you make $10, you might have lost $50 in the process, and all these started with the inability to be patient with their investment, they are only interested in making quick money without looking at the high risk attached to it, even though they knows that investment in Bitcoin is more safer and reliable.
Funny enough, out of a number of 100 traders, it's like only 2 that will be profitable, because it's one of the most difficult craft in the world, and since traders are very good at lying, they will never tell you how they are always at the losing end, so I urge you Razmirraz, if you are hell bent on sabotaging your finances, try not to encourage others in going the same route.

trading is like gambling and i doubt if anyone could make a living by gambling because in gambling even if you win today, if you come back tomorrow you might lose everything you won the previous day so wheres the profit there. so trading bitcoin now and you think you have made profit and then you go again to buy the next day you might found out that the price have even increased more than what you just sold recently because bitcoin is very volatile, in this regards now you will be buying at a very high rate even the profit you made previously will be used to buy in such rate and at such everything have disappeared.

[JayJuanGee]

This is the perfect examples or reason how people decides to lose money thinking that they are doing the right thing because they always think that trading is an alternative way to make money in the space, not knowing that in trading, because you make $10, you might have lost $50 in the process, and all these started with the inability to be patient with their investment, they are only interested in making quick money without looking at the high risk attached to it, even though they knows that investment in Bitcoin is more safer and reliable.
Funny enough, out of a number of 100 traders, it's like only 2 that will be profitable, because it's one of the most difficult craft in the world, and since traders are very good at lying, they will never tell you how they are always at the losing end, so I urge you Razmirraz, if you are hell bent on sabotaging your finances, try not to encourage others in going the same route.

Honestly I have never encounter a trader who has told peoples the truth about trading. They actually don't because they know people won't join trading if they know risky is it. These traders would preach how you can make $1000 everyday through trading without telling you about the losses. If they tell people the honest truth about trading,do you think people would agree to go ahead with it?. The truth is nobody would want to waste money becuse losses is inevitable. Infact trading is the weirdest way to make money you can't make it when your losses are greater than you gains. For me trading is a waste of resources and time, considering the losses, I cannot encourage anyone to go into trading.

Historically, part of the more fundamental problems from trading come from both a waiting mentality (that results in way less aggressive ongoing buying of bitcoin) and also from selling too much too soon with an asset (like bitcoin) that has had both an ongoing upwards price trajectory, and even sometimes periods of quite considerably explosive upward price movements that end up serving as an upward stair-stepping in which the BTC price doe not ever end up returning to the lower step prices that seemed to have had been ongoingly available, until those prices are never ever ever going to happen again... ..

So even if it could take several years for the confidence of the upward stair-stepping to have had taken place, we can see a lot of historical examples of guys selling  way too much too soon, and even though they got dollar profits, the bitcoin ended up going up so much that they may well be regretting to not hang onto most if not all of the coins that they had sold at the lower prices that they had previously obtained at prices that will never be touched again.  Sure, I could give examples of various price points in which such a thing happened, but we can also see a lot of examples of it.

Think about the guys who sold a lot of BTC in the $500 prices in mid-2016.  Think about the many folks who sold in the $2k prices in early 2017.. .. In 2022, many of the guys who sold in the $30k-ish arena in early 2021 were able to buy back, yet there were some of those who sold again in the $30k to $40k arena in 2023 and they are currently still waiting for the BTC price to drop back down to those price, which is possible to happen, yet seeming quite doubtful that it will happen.. even though we surely have a lot of weird macro-happenings creating a lot of uncertainties in current times.... .. so let's see about the so many guys currently waiting for $50ks, $40ks and even some who consider $30k to be possible. 

Those waiting for $50ks, $40ks and $30k seem to be taking the wrong approach to bitcoin - yet even investing is not guaranteed to work out favorably, even for guys who are ongoingly accumulating bitcoin. .which is part of the reason to recognize that investing can take time before the feelings of having a sufficient price cushion (also known as profits on paper) contributes to confidence that it is not likely that those lower prices are not going to be available anymore. .. even the guys who have been buying bitcoin for 4 years straight with similar amounts of capital (aka DCAing), their average cost per BTC would be right around the 200-WMA (which is currently $59,400), and so even the guys buying bitcoin for 4 years might not be feeling as if they are greatly "in profits" (even if just on paper).. .

yet even if an ongoing investment approach to bitcoin does not have great on paper performance over the past 4-years, that would still not likely justify that a trading approach would have had been better, including that frequently a trading approach does not end up tending to build up greater and greater amounts of wealth in the asset (in this case, bitcoin).  Frequently, guys who had been investing in bitcoin for 4-years or more are going to develop increased confidence based on the wealth that they had been building up, both in term of their bitcoin holdings, and also in terms of their likely ongoing strengthening of their cashflow management systems/practices.. so in that regard, the ongoing building likely leads greater confidence and security from investors as compared with traders who are likely ongoingly in and out of bitcoin and not tending to build it up (even if they might have had intentions to trade with a purpose of building up their bitcoin holdings).

Another thing with trading is that guys may well have many instances of back and forth and profitability, especially during periods that the bitcoin  price is ranging, and even the traders may well end up doing better than the investors during periods that the BTC price is going ongoingly down.. yet their profits (and luck) is likely to change during those circumstances that the bitcoin price shoots up and they end up with hardly any or no bitcoin - even if their intention was to build their bitcoin holdings, they end up selling way too much too soon and they end up with only a fraction of the coins that are held by the guys who had been focusing on persistent, consistent, ongoing, regular and perhaps even aggressive bitcoin accumulation... and yeah, sure maybe your results will differ, yet the trader could have 9 out of 10 successful trades and then end up blowing all (if not more than all) of his profits by being on the wrong side of a BTC price move, so the odds of a bitcoin trader actually beating a bitcoin investor over a couple of cycles or more becomes quite small and unlikely as compared with the amount of value put in over time and the amount of coins that the bitcoin investor would be holding as compared with the trader.

Trading shouldn't be an option at all people should discard trading in Bitcoin investment most expecially new investors who are supposed to be accumulating Bitcoin and hodl now begin to buy and sell in a short time it doesn't make any sense. Traders do make gains that's true but when they loss they loss big and you won't hear them saying anything about it , thr the risk in trading is much new investor should run from it and think of how to build a good Bitcoin portfolio by consistently accumulating Bitcoin and hodl for years about 4-10 years.

Gradually the discussion is derailing in that most people are talking about trading which is not appropriate.  The more we emphasis this trading, the more we are giving it a voice and some newbie here might get their curiosity aroused as a results. Hence, I would love us to refocus the discussion to Bitcoin accumulation which is what we all wants to do efficiently.

As the topic says, this is a guide to Bitcoin investment, JJG have done extensive job in creating this guide which is very useful to even people are just getting started with their Bitcoin journey. I think we should pay more attention to the implementation of the steps outlined and then commit everything to the time requirements  so that we can achieve our Bitcoin accumulation objectives.

You are correct that this thread is not about trading and/or shitcoins (even though I did take some of the bait in my above responses. and it does not feel good to be devolving into talking about trading and/or shitcoins), so we should be striving to minimize our discussion of those trading and/or shitcoin topics and to focus on the investment topic, which also has its own ongoing challenges in regards to how guys might deal with their bitcoin accumulation practices as well as balancing and strengthening their cashflow management systems/practices.

[Silikiem]

You are correct that this thread is not about trading and/or shitcoins (even though I did take some of the bait in my above responses. and it does not feel good to be devolving into talking about trading and/or shitcoins), so we should be striving to minimize our discussion of those trading and/or shitcoin topics and to focus on the investment topic, which also has its own ongoing challenges in regards to how guys might deal with their bitcoin accumulation practices as well as balancing and strengthening their cashflow management systems/practices.

Absolutely true, folks should be able to read the topic of the thread which said JJG’s outline of bitcoin investment ideas and not outline of bitcoin trading ideas. These are two different things with different things and I don’t think they are related in any way so it’s better to focus on the topic and message of the thread so as not to mislead anyone into gambling with our bitcoin investment by trading which will undoubtedly disrupt our bitcoin investment. Bitcoin is not a get rich quick, it is a long term investment so anyone thinking he will make profit instantly and become rich quick by trading bitcoin is just fooling around because it will lead to more loses, as the rate of lose will be higher than the rate of profit.

[Dogedegen]

Historically, part of the more fundamental problems from trading come from both a waiting mentality (that results in way less aggressive ongoing buying of bitcoin) and also from selling too much too soon with an asset (like bitcoin) that has had both an ongoing upwards price trajectory, and even sometimes periods of quite considerably explosive upward price movements that end up serving as an upward stair-stepping in which the BTC price doe not ever end up returning to the lower step prices that seemed to have had been ongoingly available, until those prices are never ever ever going to happen again... ..

If we also consider those that have been dismissive of Bitcoin for one reason or another, like those that think it is a scam or stuff like that into the category of waiting then it would be quite big. From one side of the perspective there are reason not to consider it into this group, but then also it should be remembered that there have been many cases of such people who were no coiners who later turned into coiners. So we could say from this perspective that they were in the waiting category, and because of their wrong beliefs they have failed to buy a lot more Bitcoin at better prices than what they could.. I would only separate people who really did not encounter Bitcoin at all from these, but these days I would be surprised to find more than a handful of people who could fall into this category. Very old people or people who don't use the internet maybe, but Bitcoin has had its rounds of being in the main media spotlight so I expect most to have at least heard the name..

Think about the guys who sold a lot of BTC in the $500 prices in mid-2016.  Think about the many folks who sold in the $2k prices in early 2017.. .. In 2022, many of the guys who sold in the $30k-ish arena in early 2021 were able to buy back, yet there were some of those who sold again in the $30k to $40k arena in 2023 and they are currently still waiting for the BTC price to drop back down to those price, which is possible to happen, yet seeming quite doubtful that it will happen.. even though we surely have a lot of weird macro-happenings creating a lot of uncertainties in current times.... .. so let's see about the so many guys currently waiting for $50ks, $40ks and even some who consider $30k to be possible. 

There are many individuals who are in this position. I think quite possibly there are many more who have regretted what they did than those who are happy with what they did. Selling off your whole stack in a big gamble like this is risky. I am sure that many of us know at least a person or two who has done something like this. I can understand selling a portion for something important like paying off a big debt, buying a house which is very hard in these times for most people and things like that. But selling the whole stash.. that is not a good thing to do. I think this is also partly why some people are so negative about the price and events, because otherwise they have to admit that they have been wrong about what they did.. very few people are like that sadly.

Those waiting for $50ks, $40ks and $30k seem to be taking the wrong approach to bitcoin - yet even investing is not guaranteed to work out favorably,

I agree, even if sometimes a move like that may work out because of sheer luck and that is a big cause of this problem. People use examples of luck to validate their ideas and beliefs, when lucky outcomes prove the opposite so that it was not a good idea.

Another thing with trading is that guys may well have many instances of back and forth and profitability, especially during periods that the bitcoin  price is ranging, and even the traders may well end up doing better than the investors during periods that the BTC price is going ongoingly down.. yet their profits (and luck) is likely to change during those circumstances that the bitcoin price shoots up and they end up with hardly any or no bitcoin - even if their intention was to build their bitcoin holdings, they end up selling way too much too soon and they end up with only a fraction of the coins that are held by the guys who had been focusing on persistent, consistent, ongoing, regular and perhaps even aggressive bitcoin accumulation... and yeah, sure maybe your results will differ, yet the trader could have 9 out of 10 successful trades and then end up blowing all (if not more than all) of his profits by being on the wrong side of a BTC price move, so the odds of a bitcoin trader actually beating a bitcoin investor over a couple of cycles or more becomes quite small and unlikely as compared with the amount of value put in over time and the amount of coins that the bitcoin investor would be holding as compared with the trader.

Many approaches may seem superior to investing in short term periods, but that is also proof that investing long-term and with good strategies such DCA is superior. It gives the best likelihood of providing good outcomes in the long term, but with other things you are more likely to fail in the long term.

[Rockstarguy]

As the topic says, this is a guide to Bitcoin investment, JJG have done extensive job in creating this guide which is very useful to even people are just getting started with their Bitcoin journey. I think we should pay more attention to the implementation of the steps outlined and then commit everything to the time requirements  so that we can achieve our Bitcoin accumulation objectives.

I'm not really surprised why people shift from the main discussion to something else; this is because in real life they don't even understand what the real Bitcoin investment is all about. Some feel they are into investment, but what exactly they are into is just something else. Investment is a mindset, and to have this investment mentality, one has to get a better understanding; otherwise, there will be an unknowable shift to someone just thinking they are doing the right thing but are not.

The main point of the discussion is not just to buy Bitcoin and hodl, but to discuss the benefits of having a Bitcoin investment and the strategies of how to invest in Bitcoin. The main discussion is just about Bitcoin and nothing else.

[JayJuanGee]

Historically, part of the more fundamental problems from trading come from both a waiting mentality (that results in way less aggressive ongoing buying of bitcoin) and also from selling too much too soon with an asset (like bitcoin) that has had both an ongoing upwards price trajectory, and even sometimes periods of quite considerably explosive upward price movements that end up serving as an upward stair-stepping in which the BTC price doe not ever end up returning to the lower step prices that seemed to have had been ongoingly available, until those prices are never ever ever going to happen again... ..

If we also consider those that have been dismissive of Bitcoin for one reason or another, like those that think it is a scam or stuff like that into the category of waiting then it would be quite big. From one side of the perspective there are reason not to consider it into this group, but then also it should be remembered that there have been many cases of such people who were no coiners who later turned into coiners. So we could say from this perspective that they were in the waiting category, and because of their wrong beliefs they have failed to buy a lot more Bitcoin at better prices than what they could.. I would only separate people who really did not encounter Bitcoin at all from these, but these days I would be surprised to find more than a handful of people who could fall into this category. Very old people or people who don't use the internet maybe, but Bitcoin has had its rounds of being in the main media spotlight so I expect most to have at least heard the name..

Hearing the name hardly means anything in regards to understanding what bitcoin is.

Think about the guys who sold a lot of BTC in the $500 prices in mid-2016.  Think about the many folks who sold in the $2k prices in early 2017.. .. In 2022, many of the guys who sold in the $30k-ish arena in early 2021 were able to buy back, yet there were some of those who sold again in the $30k to $40k arena in 2023 and they are currently still waiting for the BTC price to drop back down to those price, which is possible to happen, yet seeming quite doubtful that it will happen.. even though we surely have a lot of weird macro-happenings creating a lot of uncertainties in current times.... .. so let's see about the so many guys currently waiting for $50ks, $40ks and even some who consider $30k to be possible. 

There are many individuals who are in this position. I think quite possibly there are many more who have regretted what they did than those who are happy with what they did. Selling off your whole stack in a big gamble like this is risky. I am sure that many of us know at least a person or two who has done something like this. I can understand selling a portion for something important like paying off a big debt, buying a house which is very hard in these times for most people and things like that. But selling the whole stash.. that is not a good thing to do. I think this is also partly why some people are so negative about the price and events, because otherwise they have to admit that they have been wrong about what they did.. very few people are like that sadly.

Without outlining the exact profile of the guys who sold too much too soon at the various BTC  price plateau points that I mentioned, part of my point is that they likely were in decently great profits at the time of their sale, yet retroactively we see that the price ended up going up and then never returning back down.. os then they are potentially turned into a bitter low coiner or worse yet, a bitter no coiner.

We cannot know those price points in advance, including, we cannot really know if sub $65k is ever going to be touched again, even though when we have been largely teetering between $64k and $72k for the past two months, it can become difficult to know if the ultimate breakout is going to be up or down, even though in retrospect it will seem more obvious than it does right now, as we are going through the torture of waiting.. to the extent that we are waiting... and surely, it is my position that any newbies should be ongoingly buying at these prices whether they expect more down or not, even though surely there are going to be guys who place too much likelihood on lower BTC price targets that may or may not end up getting touched upon.

Those waiting for $50ks, $40ks and $30k seem to be taking the wrong approach to bitcoin - yet even investing is not guaranteed to work out favorably,

I agree, even if sometimes a move like that may work out because of sheer luck and that is a big cause of this problem. People use examples of luck to validate their ideas and beliefs, when lucky outcomes prove the opposite so that it was not a good idea.

Another thing with trading is that guys may well have many instances of back and forth and profitability, especially during periods that the bitcoin  price is ranging, and even the traders may well end up doing better than the investors during periods that the BTC price is going ongoingly down.. yet their profits (and luck) is likely to change during those circumstances that the bitcoin price shoots up and they end up with hardly any or no bitcoin - even if their intention was to build their bitcoin holdings, they end up selling way too much too soon and they end up with only a fraction of the coins that are held by the guys who had been focusing on persistent, consistent, ongoing, regular and perhaps even aggressive bitcoin accumulation... and yeah, sure maybe your results will differ, yet the trader could have 9 out of 10 successful trades and then end up blowing all (if not more than all) of his profits by being on the wrong side of a BTC price move, so the odds of a bitcoin trader actually beating a bitcoin investor over a couple of cycles or more becomes quite small and unlikely as compared with the amount of value put in over time and the amount of coins that the bitcoin investor would be holding as compared with the trader.

Many approaches may seem superior to investing in short term periods, but that is also proof that investing long-term and with good strategies such DCA is superior. It gives the best likelihood of providing good outcomes in the long term, but with other things you are more likely to fail in the long term.

That is the punchline, and I am not even opposed to guys who might not be able to resist trading, gambling, and/or shitcoining as long as they are insightful enough to limit those activities to 10% or less of their total bitcoin investment size.. but when they go down that path, they may well have trouble limiting themselves...and surely in recent times, even going back for investors' with a 4 year investment timeline, they may well have average costs per BTC that are in the ball park of the 200-WMA.. which is $59,400, so they may well be not feeling as if their current profit levels are not that great, even though they may well had been accumulating bitcoin as best as they could given the overall circumstances and our never really being able to know what the short-to-medium price direction of bitcoin is going to do. 

There surely are guy who don't let the price distract them, so they may well already realized that their accumulation journey was going to be 4-10  years or longer, so there is a likely realization that wealth building takes time for the guys who are building wealth from their discretionary income as it comes in versus the guys who might have had other resources besides their discretionary income that they could tap into in order to front load their bitcoin investment, and even that frontloading might not have had helped their overall average cost per BTC depending on when they got into bitcoin and at what price points they were able to get access to the extra funds allocate (or reallocate) into bitcoin.

[alankasman]

We cannot know those price points in advance, including, we cannot really know if sub $65k is ever going to be touched again, even though when we have been largely teetering between $64k and $72k for the past two months, it can become difficult to know if the ultimate breakout is going to be up or down, even though in retrospect it will seem more obvious than it does right now, as we are going through the torture of waiting.. to the extent that we are waiting... and surely, it is my position that any newbies should be ongoingly buying at these prices whether they expect more down or not, even though surely there are going to be guys who place too much likelihood on lower BTC price targets that may or may not end up getting touched upon.

These two months provide an opportunity for everyone to purchase and accumulate the amount they should have when market conditions improve again. Currently the only way we can benefit all parties with saved funds is to continue accumulating BTC by accumulating it while the price still supports buying. This will allow us to profit significantly beyond our expectations when the price is favorable. However if the price increases this is also a result of taking advantage of the opportunity when market conditions are still showing no signs of improvement. As those who still have funds buying is certainly better than holding on to what we already have.

Because the current market condition is at its highest at $72k and that only lasted for a while so it finally fell again below $70k this is based on the graph that we see is always at the number as I mentioned earlier maybe this indicates that we as BTC holders should hold off first to sell only when we hold like that the main thing we must have is another job that can cover our daily needs in holding off from selling some of the assets we currently hold because if we have not found the desired point of course selling in the current position is a pretty wrong decision for those who do.

[UpTober]

Do not be discouraged when you see yourself making mistakes, it is part of the learning journey ad no one comes into bitcoin having figured everything out, instead learn from your mistakes and keep pushing on and with time you would be better off and employ better practices in managing your cashflow properly.

Do operate with the hype in the market to buy bitcoin, that's not investing, rather it is gambling, you've to remain consistent in your regular buys using DCA and focus only on enlarging your portfolio, that way you escape FOMO and panic selling since you are also starting with little amounts that you can afford to loose.

That's right mistakes are bound to happen and are very common especially with beginners but shouldn't get anyone discouraged because it's part of what makes you better investor. Making mistake is not the real problem but repeating the same mistake is the real problem, it shows that you ignore the mistake and will hinder your growth as an investor and thats not good for your investment.

Investing due to hype of an asset it not ideal and it will burn you out easily because it can easily lead to emotional decisions when the market is not favourable. People need to understand that the real purpose of investing is not to chase quick profits or react to hype but to build wealth steadily over time. Investing gradually with what you can afford to lose help to reduce the risk and maintain and that's what DCA does.

No one can start investing with a complete idea and it is also true that no one ever has a complete idea about anything because people make mistakes and learn from mistakes.

A person who has some idea about Bitcoin but thinks that he will not start investing with this little idea but will wait more and try to master a better idea then it will be a wrong step for him initially because if there is a delay in starting investment then many times investment opportunities can be missed for many reasons or he can move away from the idea of starting investment so only with this little idea should an investor start investing like, being patient, buying consistently, understanding his income as well as his income and expenses, trying to invest with a part of the extra money, understanding the need for emergency funds, being able to choose the right wallet, security. If an investor starts investing with this little idea then I believe he will gradually learn many things practically about Bitcoin after starting.

[cyberninja2]

A person who has some idea about Bitcoin but thinks that he will not start investing with this little idea but will wait more and try to master a better idea then it will be a wrong step for him initially because if there is a delay in starting investment then many times investment opportunities can be missed for many reasons or he can move away from the idea of starting investment so only with this little idea should an investor start investing like, being patient, buying consistently, understanding his income as well as his income and expenses, trying to invest with a part of the extra money, understanding the need for emergency funds, being able to choose the right wallet, security. If an investor starts investing with this little idea then I believe he will gradually learn many things practically about Bitcoin after starting.

This is what often happens to those who miss the opportunity to start even though when they start immediately there are certainly important things. At least they experience the same thing as others who have started. This is what often causes delays in starting both for those with capital and for those who are afraid to start due to concerns about their limitations.

The ideas or concepts you conveyed are worth keeping for people who like to delay in starting to invest in Bitcoin but I also understand that for someone who delays doing so sometimes there are many things they should think about one of which is that sometimes their income is only sufficient for family needs but that is only a few percent. The rest of these things are also we who must be careful in managing the interests of these things so that both things can certainly run according to what we hope.

[Big Dirams]

These two months provide an opportunity for everyone to purchase and accumulate the amount they should have when market conditions improve again. Currently the only way we can benefit all parties with saved funds is to continue accumulating BTC by accumulating it while the price still supports buying. This will allow us to profit significantly beyond our expectations when the price is favorable. However if the price increases this is also a result of taking advantage of the opportunity when market conditions are still showing no signs of improvement. As those who still have funds buying is certainly better than holding on to what we already have.

Because the current market condition is at its highest at $72k and that only lasted for a while so it finally fell again below $70k this is based on the graph that we see is always at the number as I mentioned earlier maybe this indicates that we as BTC holders should hold off first to sell only when we hold like that the main thing we must have is another job that can cover our daily needs in holding off from selling some of the assets we currently hold because if we have not found the desired point of course selling in the current position is a pretty wrong decision for those who do.

Profits shouldn’t be what allows us to keep accumulating bitcoin, if we are just after profits then the investment just looks like trading because as soon as we see the exact profits we are looking for then Instantly we would just leave the market and forget the investment.
 Having strong discipline and mindset for bitcoin investment helps to increase our chances of success especially when one mindset is about aiming for future growth. The more we keep accumulating bitcoin and have long term mindset for it then the higher chances of success we would see even if it isn’t certain but the risk is absolutely worth a big try.