JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[B2Z]

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

In a new situation, investors do not actually need to have a complete understanding of this to start investing, but an investor can start investing with some general ideas. Those who usually wait and think that they will get involved in investment after getting a complete understanding of investment, their investments are often incomplete because they do not understand whether their understanding of investment is complete or not. The main thing is that investors actually have no end to learning about investment, so when an investor starts investing with some general ideas, he will gradually learn many more things and gradually he will be able to use those things.

An investor should not take any pressure other than starting investment in the initial stage and continuing it gradually. When the investor starts with a small amount of money and gradually increases the investment amount when he understands it himself and when he feels the need to ensure a backup fund along with continuing his investment, then this investor can decide to create such a backup fund with a part of his discretionary income. But if the investor is under pressure to invest and build a backup fund at the same time, he will be hesitant to make decisions at the beginning, so investors should start simply.

This is a very appropriate answer to be understood by all parties because every person or party who wants to start investing with a healthy mindset will certainly invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent.

You don’t allocate money to buy bitcoin without first figuring out how much will be your discretionary income. It is from your discretionary income that you will know how much that should be invested in bitcoin. Don’t make the mistake of investing in bitcoin without making provision of your basic family needs. If you rush and invest 30% of your salary and later you find out that your discretionary income isn’t up to that 30% you will have trouble meeting up with family demands. The right approach is always to invest from discretionary income.

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

I hope you don't need to be irresponsible to become an investor in Bitcoin. You must be aware of discretionary income, the money that is left after meeting all your needs is generally considered as discretionary income. Now if you can ensure a discretionary income after meeting all your needs, then you can start investing with that money and ensure continuity of investment. More or less everyone earns money, but not everyone understands its proper management, many people earn a lot of money but due to lack of proper management, they end up in debt at the end of the month, and there are some middle-class employees who decide to invest in Bitcoin after meeting all their needs and thinking about the future and they continue investing properly, but all this is possible through proper management.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

I have one source of income but if I try to increase my income and try to find multiple sources of income then it will always be the right decision for me. If proper management is known and if there are multiple sources of income then it is possible to increase the amount of DCA. But I would like to add one more point here that is that while continuing the investment continuously, many challenges may be faced and sometimes the investment may be irregular, this is normal but irregular investment does not mean that the continuity of the investment is lost but it is more important to maintain it. So if at some time the investment is less than the normal investment, then even then one should be patient and wait for the good times.

[BluebloodCXVI]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

I get the idea of what you’re saying Boss, but I don’t think the Over-accumulation status is a fixed stage in bitcoin investing. What feels enough is different for everyone and can change over time depending on your goals, lifestyle, income and even market conditions, so i don’t think over-accumulation status should be seen as a permanent point where you can just stop your accumulation.
Even if someone feels that they’ve built a strong position, it doesn’t mean they can fully switch off from thinking about risk or portfolio management because bitcoin is still volatile, and what looks comfortable in one cycle can feel very different after a big drawdown or a change in personal circumstances. And on the withdrawal side too, sustainable rate isn’t a fixed guarantee either, it all depends on how the market performs over time, so it still needs to be flexible and reviewed, not treated as something static.

[EL MOHA]

For me i think each investor should have a specific profit target, the only thing is that as a bitcoin investor you need to actually go long term because that’s the easiest way to gain profit from bitcoin. Personally my profit target is price based and not based on time. If the price triggers then i actually take profit or else just hold.

You are saying that at various price points, you are selling portions of your bitcoin stash, but there is no time element to your plan? Something seems quite incomplete about that way of framing matters.

Does that mean that you are done accumulating bitcoin?  Or perhaps it means that you plan to sell bitcoin at certain price points with an expectation to buy back at lower prices (perhaps 15%, 30%, 50% price corrections or more from whatever your sell points?)?  How is what  you are doing investing and not trading?  How are you "on-topic" in this thread?  Are you even trying to be "on-topic" or are you merely trying to provide some kind of an alternative perspective?   I am not completely opposed to alternative perspectives as long as they are at least attempting to grapple with the topic of this thread and not purposefully providing bullshit and/or off-topic ideas without attempting to relate such discussion points to the thread.

I think I might have been misunderstood probably because I didn’t put it out well, I didn’t say one should actually have various price target for me by doing so you’re absolutely no different from someone who is trading and as someone who has traded I will say that the easiest way to lose all your money is trading, investing has proving that is the safest option regardless of any price you’re even investing into bitcoin.

My take which got us to this is actually about when long to invest into bitcoin which has been established that a minimum of 4 years is actually the best timing for that, personally I will even advice anyone coming into bitcoin most especially someone starting to build a bitcoin portfolio to even go way longer.

My statement on having specific profit target is for one who is looking to actually take profit on the bitcoin at certain period of time (I am not a fan of cashing out profit everything because realistically it’s save with bitcoin than in fiat) but just in case the investor wishes to take a little profit then they can actually also look into price target as alternative to time base target. For example if you have an average bitcoin buy price of $30k you can decide to take some profit at probably above $100k but minding that this could take a whole one cycle to reach (4 years) this to me will eliminate procrastination when trying to take off profit.

But one thing I will always say is you better have your coins in bitcoin than another asset so I do not succumb to taking profit unnecessarily or investing for a short period of time, that’s why I say trading is bad except you’re an expert. Hold for long term and you’re save

[Loyang]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

[Grease5000]

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

In a new situation, investors do not actually need to have a complete understanding of this to start investing, but an investor can start investing with some general ideas. Those who usually wait and think that they will get involved in investment after getting a complete understanding of investment, their investments are often incomplete because they do not understand whether their understanding of investment is complete or not. The main thing is that investors actually have no end to learning about investment, so when an investor starts investing with some general ideas, he will gradually learn many more things and gradually he will be able to use those things.

An investor should not take any pressure other than starting investment in the initial stage and continuing it gradually. When the investor starts with a small amount of money and gradually increases the investment amount when he understands it himself and when he feels the need to ensure a backup fund along with continuing his investment, then this investor can decide to create such a backup fund with a part of his discretionary income. But if the investor is under pressure to invest and build a backup fund at the same time, he will be hesitant to make decisions at the beginning, so investors should start simply.

This is a very appropriate answer to be understood by all parties because every person or party who wants to start investing with a healthy mindset will certainly invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent.

You don’t allocate money to buy bitcoin without first figuring out how much will be your discretionary income. It is from your discretionary income that you will know how much that should be invested in bitcoin. Don’t make the mistake of investing in bitcoin without making provision of your basic family needs. If you rush and invest 30% of your salary and later you find out that your discretionary income isn’t up to that 30% you will have trouble meeting up with family demands. The right approach is always to invest from discretionary income.

I'm not brave enough to prioritize investment first, then neglect family needs especially with a small percentage that I don't think it will be enough within a month.
The ideal for me is, prioritize the needs first then the rest will be invested in bitcoin with a predetermined, say 20% and the rest is the need to fulfill other things.

I hope you don't need to be irresponsible to become an investor in Bitcoin. You must be aware of discretionary income, the money that is left after meeting all your needs is generally considered as discretionary income. Now if you can ensure a discretionary income after meeting all your needs, then you can start investing with that money and ensure continuity of investment. More or less everyone earns money, but not everyone understands its proper management, many people earn a lot of money but due to lack of proper management, they end up in debt at the end of the month, and there are some middle-class employees who decide to invest in Bitcoin after meeting all their needs and thinking about the future and they continue investing properly, but all this is possible through proper management.

It's better if there is a side business that can help increase your DCA investment, for example from 20% increased to 30% because you have a side project that can produce then that's better.
I still prioritize DCA strategy investment at least once a month to do dollars to bitcoin.

I have one source of income but if I try to increase my income and try to find multiple sources of income then it will always be the right decision for me. If proper management is known and if there are multiple sources of income then it is possible to increase the amount of DCA. But I would like to add one more point here that is that while continuing the investment continuously, many challenges may be faced and sometimes the investment may be irregular, this is normal but irregular investment does not mean that the continuity of the investment is lost but it is more important to maintain it. So if at some time the investment is less than the normal investment, then even then one should be patient and wait for the good times.

I understand the point you  are making about start early.  Personally I think putting emergency fund  as a secondary option  can create unnecessary risk especially for a  beginner. Starting small is good  but having emergency fund matters because if any unexpected expenses arise it may force investor to sale off the their Bitcoin stash to offset the bill  which defeat the purpose of long term  accumulation.

[SmartCharpa]

For a  beginner, setting aside an emergency fund should be secondary, the primary aim is to start investing then you can figure out an emergency fund along the road except you already have enough cash flow, and even if a beginner has enough cash flow, he might be inexperienced on how to split his income such that no circumstances will lead him to selling when he hasn't fulfilled his height of accumulation. We should not assume that a beginner should know about setting an emergency fund, it is not necessary at the start of his investment.

Bitcoin is unpredictable, and it is very important for everyone involved to understand that having an emergency fund is very important. Even our life is unpredictable because we can experience unexpected problems while investing, and  at the points, we will have no choice than to sell part of our investment whether at lose. If there’s no any money for other expenses, even though you plan to hold for a long term, you will have to sell whenever you are in need of money.

I agree with you, even though a beginner has an enough money, that doesn’t mean they have the knowledge to manage the fund. It’s very important to understand how to set aside money for other things and how we can invest it gradually. Without having the knowledge, some people can invest everything at once and they will not have rest of mind since they don’t understand how the market works. Having an emergency fund gives you rest of mind and stay focused with your investment strategy.

[Proty]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

The mindset of buying when the market falls with aim of making profit in the future is that of traders because longer term investors doesn't wait for the market to fall or for there to be a decline in price of bitcoin before they buy. They utilise there discretionary income by utilising every market opportunities.
Buying bitcoin aggressively with the intention of getting a good amount of profits is very wrong and is very risky because this profit mindset will make you to end up trading and gambling with bitcoin.

[Father111]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

Some of the investors that i have came across with, is true that investors who make use of DCA method have the advantage of waiting for dip, to buy once using lump sum method to make use of chance of the dip, if you have reach their overaccumulation status and you decided to stop accumulating, this discussion just made to recall on what an investors told me about overaccumulation status and you don't need to keep accumulating, and that is why i suggested to say it out here to reaction about it, then i can learn from it too, it is a bad idea holding back bad impression that will misleading you in future.

[UpTober]

Thinking of profit making in Bitcoin is not bad and it doesn't also disqualified any investors of being a good hodler in Bitcoin, i don't like pretending on what is true, every investors can't engage themselves into any investment that will not be profitable to them, i don't see anything wrong of thinking about the profit you are going to make through out years of investing in Bitcoin continueosly, the only thing i see is bad as a newbie, is when a newbie make use of short term investment instead of a long term investment, and talking about a bad hodler, is when a newbie make use of a short term investment that is when he is not a good Bitcoin hodler, not the other way round, that Investors that their major concern is to make profit from Bitcoin investment are not good hodlers, like you said @ Sobz link.

Your profit is in your bitcoin portfolio untouched if you don't sell any of your bitcoin so why getting worried over it or thinking too much about your profits when you're supposed to stay focused in building and growing your bitcoin investment by DCAing consistent and persistent overtime till you reach your bitcoin target.

No need of stressing yourself that much and start thinking about what wouldn't add any value to your bitcoin portfolio or that can lead you to start making wrong decisions. Too much focus on your bitcoin portfolio can make you lose focus on ongoingly buying bitcoin because you might be tempted to take some profit and if you fall for it, before you know it you will start taking profits and turn into a trader because the next thing is that, you will start planning to buy low and sell high.

There's time for everything, during your accumulation stage forget about profit and be focused on reaching your bitcoin target first.

When an investor thinks only about profit after investing, he will undoubtedly lose focus on continuing his investment and then he will only check his portfolio repeatedly and try to take his profit. When he constantly monitors the market and when he sees a small profit in his investment, he can change his decision, that is, he can think that now that he has made some profit, he should sell and when the price of Bitcoin comes down again, he should buy again. In doing so, the purpose should start with investment but end with trading. After investing, we should not give priority to the issue of profit, but we should give priority to investing in Bitcoin continuously and holding it for a long time. After starting an investment, an investor should continue investing continuously for at least 4 to 10 years and if he has to think about profit later, then it should be done after this specific period and before this period, he should forget about profit and implement investment in a long-term plan.

[ChocolateBitcoinK]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

The mindset of buying when the market falls with aim of making profit in the future is that of traders because longer term investors doesn't wait for the market to fall or for there to be a decline in price of bitcoin before they buy. They utilise there discretionary income by utilising every market opportunities.
Buying bitcoin aggressively with the intention of getting a good amount of profits is very wrong and is very risky because this profit mindset will make you to end up trading and gambling with bitcoin.

Those who only want to buy when the market is down, never decide to buy Bitcoin with the intention of making real profits, but with the intention of achieving short-term success. The real success of Bitcoin is likely to be achieved in the long term, which is why a responsible investor invests only for the long term, and that is through a consistent strategy. A responsible investor does not buy when the price is falling using only fluctuations, but builds his portfolio by buying continuously after a certain period of time. Only the DCA strategy is most suitable for buying Bitcoin continuously, and consistency is the most suitable investment strategy for long-term holding. Therefore, the trading mentality must be abandoned, waiting for the fall/dip price will only cause you to miss opportunities and only push yourself back.

[Cgrexp]

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

Maybe you mean that when someone reaches the point of excess savings, they stop investing regularly and take advantage of the price decline. But I want to say something here, in long-term investment, an investor can usually take 10 years, 12 years or even more to reach the point of excess savings. But when he reaches the point of excess savings, he usually thinks about sustainable withdrawal. But if he focuses on buying in the fall without thinking about withdrawal even after reaching the point of excess savings, then when will he actually think about withdrawal??? If he has the idea of increasing his portfolio further by taking advantage of the price decline, then we can do that along with regular investment. So I don't think an investor will think about buying aggressively again after reaching the point of excess savings. Because in this case, an investor is going back to the investment cycle without using his acquired status. Although this is everyone's personal decision. If someone wants to take another opportunity, it is not bad.And I hope that even if someone makes such a decision, they will make the decision considering their financial situation. Still, everything has an end.

[New Judgement]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

I get the idea of what you’re saying Boss, but I don’t think the Over-accumulation status is a fixed stage in bitcoin investing.

No it’s not, and nobody said it’s a fixed state or stage. You as an investor will know when you have gotten to the stage of your over accumulation.

What feels enough is different for everyone and can change over time depending on your goals, lifestyle, income and even market conditions, so i don’t think over-accumulation status should be seen as a permanent point where you can just stop your accumulation.

When you have gotten to the stage of over accumulation, it is natural for an investor to stop accumulating bitcoin. I don’t know what else you want to be doing when you know within yourself that you have achieved your bitcoin goal in term of accumulation.

Even if someone feels that they’ve built a strong position, it doesn’t mean they can fully switch off from thinking about risk or portfolio management because bitcoin is still volatile, and what looks comfortable in one cycle can feel very different after a big drawdown or a change in personal circumstances.

If your circumstance changed in the future where you set another goal for yourself, maybe you now realize that your finances has improved and there is need to add more bitcoins to your portfolio, you have every right to do that nobody is stopping you.

And on the withdrawal side too, sustainable rate isn’t a fixed guarantee either, it all depends on how the market performs over time, so it still needs to be flexible and reviewed, not treated as something static.

Sustainable rate is the rate you set for yourself that you know won’t put your portfolio at risk sudden draining. It’s not a static something, you make adjustments based on what you think is best for your portfolio.

[Powerjumboo]

invest without having to trouble themselves meaning that today the income they have, for example is 50%, of course the person will do it with 30% to accumulate Bitcoin while the remaining 20% ​​is only for needs that must be spent meaning that every time they accumulate the person must see how much income they have during the week and likewise sometimes they have more sources of income than what we mentioned earlier they must also do it in a way that does not make it difficult for someone to live their life

I think that it's absolutely wrong to be investing in Bitcoin like that because you are definitely going to run into trouble doing it that way. You have to take proper care of your basic needs first, then any money that is left, which is your discretionary income is what you should be investing with, not investing first before taking care of your basic needs with what is left. It's wrong and you will fall into trouble in no distance time,  which will compel you to sell off your holdings just to address some of your basic needs that was not addressed before investing, so it's more important to sort of your basic needs first, before thinking of investing with the discretionary income left.

Walking into investment without taking proper care of our basic needs and most important things then that investment journey will be so ruined because no matter the circumstances definitely the investor would surely ran back to their investment anytime they face little issues or any important things come up because they fail to handle them before investing.
 That why it always advisable to settle our needs before thinking of investing so we won’t ran to our investment anytime we face an emergency. Let settle our needs and set up a discretionary income to begin our journey of bitcoin investment for safe and sustainable investments.

Lack will never go away from you at once, no matter how much wealth you own, your lack is permanent, this lack will never end. There was a time when we did not earn much, our needs were very less, we used to fulfill our needs with that little money, then as we have come, but there was no need, slowly when our income increased, our needs also increased, now we earn a lot, our needs have also increased a lot, so I want to say that lack is unlimited for us, lack will never be a small area for us, for that, of course, it is better to keep a certain budget for investment from the income we have. Now, no matter how much you spend, your needs will never decrease, that is why I want to say that you can never invest after meeting your needs because human needs are unlimited.

[Lembo69]

Lack will never go away from you at once, no matter how much wealth you own, your lack is permanent, this lack will never end. There was a time when we did not earn much, our needs were very less, we used to fulfill our needs with that little money, then as we have come, but there was no need, slowly when our income increased, our needs also increased, now we earn a lot, our needs have also increased a lot, so I want to say that lack is unlimited for us, lack will never be a small area for us, for that, of course, it is better to keep a certain budget for investment from the income we have. Now, no matter how much you spend, your needs will never decrease, that is why I want to say that you can never invest after meeting your needs because human needs are unlimited.

What you said is certainly logical. But if you really have a plan to invest, then you should definitely set aside a part of your income for investment.
Just as we make a specific plan after receiving income every month—where and how much money will be spent, similarly, it is necessary to have a separate budget for investment. It is important to invest regularly, even if it is a small amount.

Because the situation is never always favorable. Therefore, regular investment, even if it is small, can create the possibility of big profits in the future.

Generally speaking, you should invest from what is left after necessary expenses. This reduces financial pressure and does not have to face any problems in the future.

If you are really interested in investing, then you should gradually control your expenses and create a habit of saving. This will make investing easier and develop financial discipline.
Human needs are endless—the more income you have, the more you spend. However, you should control these needs and invest thinking about the future.

Once you start investing, you yourself will gradually get used to low expenses and will also focus on increasing your income. Effort moves people forward.

So, even if you reduce your expenses, you should develop the habit of investing regularly. This decision can eventually lead you to a financially strong position, and then you will feel proud of this decision of yours in the past.

[AuchanX]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

The mindset of buying when the market falls with aim of making profit in the future is that of traders because longer term investors doesn't wait for the market to fall or for there to be a decline in price of bitcoin before they buy. They utilise there discretionary income by utilising every market opportunities.
Buying bitcoin aggressively with the intention of getting a good amount of profits is very wrong and is very risky because this profit mindset will make you to end up trading and gambling with bitcoin.

Those who only want to buy when the market is down, never decide to buy Bitcoin with the intention of making real profits, but with the intention of achieving short-term success.

Not everyone actually invests to make a profit. Many also invest to save for the future and to survive against inflation. However, this attempt to hold funds to buy during a price drop has a disadvantage. Because there is no guarantee that the price drop will happen. It may even be that the price drop that satisfies you will never come. Then it will be seen that if you had used DCA to buy at different prices, the opportunities would not have been missed. Although I believe that Bitcoin will continue to create opportunities for us for many decades.

[B-BossMan]

The inexperience on how to sort out their funds falls under lack of management skill and that is why it is very important to have a good management skill because it is among the basic knowledge we always advise newbie or investors to have before venturing into Bitcoin investment so they won't use money meant for expenses to accumulate Bitcoin ( mismanagement). Sometimes some folks don't know how important and relevant good financial management skill is untill they fall prey of this.

It's not a must for a brand new investor to have a good financial management skills before he can start his bitcoin investment. What a brand new investor needs is to figure out his discretionary income and common sense in order for him to start his bitcoin investment.

After he have started his bitcoin investment, he can study his financial situation and make adjustments in it so that, he can be able to buy bitcoin weekly with the right discretionary income.

As he continues buying, he will reshapen his spending and gradually, learn how to manage his cash inflow so that, he will use the right amount of money for the right purposes. This is why I love DCA because it helps discipline anyone who is using it because consistent and persistent DCA overtime will become a habit to him.

 Financial management is good for you to achieve your bitcoin goal but not a must in the beginning of your bitcoin investment so that, you don't delay leaving the no coiner zone and become a low coiner. In bitcoin investment learning is a continuous process as you are investing.

Of course, I agree with you. To start accumulation Bitcoin, we need basic knowledge about investments

I don't completely agree that one must first have the basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment before stacking bitcoin. The truth is, waiting until you are fully knowledgeable about investments is a total waste of time, but what matters the most, expecialy as a newbie, being a reasonable and a well disciplined investors, understanding what you are buying at your affordable range,  due to risk, and have your discretionary income ready with you. Once you have that, then set a convenient plan for yourself like holding your bitcoin for 10 years or more depending on your goals. So alots of learning actually comes through all these processes as you are investing constantly, you must gain much experience and also understanding the market cycles, so instead of thinking about investments knowledge first, it's more practicalize to start investing in bitcoin gradually with the help of Dollar-Cost Averaging consistently and  gain knowledge along the way than wasting time before taking action or decisions.

[Nheer]

I don't completely agree that one must first have the basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment before stacking bitcoin. The truth is, waiting until you are fully knowledgeable about investments is a total waste of time, but what matters the most, expecialy as a newbie, being a reasonable and a well disciplined investors, understanding what you are buying at your affordable range,  due to risk, and have your discretionary income ready with you. Once you have that, then set a convenient plan for yourself like holding your bitcoin for 10 years or more depending on your goals. So alots of learning actually comes through all these processes as you are investing constantly, you must gain much experience and also understanding the market cycles, so instead of thinking about investments knowledge first, it's more practicalize to start investing in bitcoin gradually with the help of Dollar-Cost Averaging consistently and  gain knowledge along the way than wasting time before taking action or decisions.

I agree you don’t need to become an expert before you start investing if not many people would keep waiting forever and never invest. It's a waste of time trying to learn first before investing. What matters more in the beginning is discipline and investing only what you can afford to leave lose and not touch for years once you have discretionary income. Learning can be done anytime, it can be done after you have started investing.
To invest much isn't needed, once you have discretionary income ready no need to waste more time, invest right away with whatever level of knowledge you have and you can continue learning later on.

[Silikiem]

The inexperience on how to sort out their funds falls under lack of management skill and that is why it is very important to have a good management skill because it is among the basic knowledge we always advise newbie or investors to have before venturing into Bitcoin investment so they won't use money meant for expenses to accumulate Bitcoin ( mismanagement). Sometimes some folks don't know how important and relevant good financial management skill is untill they fall prey of this.

It's not a must for a brand new investor to have a good financial management skills before he can start his bitcoin investment. What a brand new investor needs is to figure out his discretionary income and common sense in order for him to start his bitcoin investment.

After he have started his bitcoin investment, he can study his financial situation and make adjustments in it so that, he can be able to buy bitcoin weekly with the right discretionary income.

As he continues buying, he will reshapen his spending and gradually, learn how to manage his cash inflow so that, he will use the right amount of money for the right purposes. This is why I love DCA because it helps discipline anyone who is using it because consistent and persistent DCA overtime will become a habit to him.

 Financial management is good for you to achieve your bitcoin goal but not a must in the beginning of your bitcoin investment so that, you don't delay leaving the no coiner zone and become a low coiner. In bitcoin investment learning is a continuous process as you are investing.

Of course, I agree with you. To start accumulation Bitcoin, we need basic knowledge about investments

I don't completely agree that one must first have the basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment before stacking bitcoin. The truth is, waiting until you are fully knowledgeable about investments is a total waste of time, but what matters the most, expecialy as a newbie, being a reasonable and a well disciplined investors, understanding what you are buying at your affordable range,  due to risk, and have your discretionary income ready with you. Once you have that, then set a convenient plan for yourself like holding your bitcoin for 10 years or more depending on your goals. So alots of learning actually comes through all these processes as you are investing constantly, you must gain much experience and also understanding the market cycles, so instead of thinking about investments knowledge first, it's more practicalize to start investing in bitcoin gradually with the help of Dollar-Cost Averaging consistently and  gain knowledge along the way than wasting time before taking action or decisions.

You cannot do away a basic knowledge to start investing in bitcoin. He’s not saying that you must acquire all the knowledge before you can start investing in bitcoin but rather he was only saying that just a basic knowledge is enough to get started with. I don’t think you truly understands what this basic knowledge means, the basic knowledge is simply the common sense of an individual or the intending investor to know or come to a conclusion that he is convinced enough and desires to invest in bitcoin and that he can start buying bitcoin immediately as his discretionary income is ready and that he can sort out other things  and gain more understanding of bitcoin along the line while accumulating and investing in bitcoin. In other words, a basic knowledge is simply your common sense and of which we all  need a common sense as Human to start up something. One must not wait until he acquires all the knowledge before getting started In bitcoin investment, but a basic knowledge (common sense)is enough to get started with your availability of discretionary income.

[JayJuanGee]

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

I get the idea of what you’re saying Boss, but I don’t think the Over-accumulation status is a fixed stage in bitcoin investing. What feels enough is different for everyone and can change over time depending on your goals, lifestyle, income and even market conditions, so i don’t think over-accumulation status should be seen as a permanent point where you can just stop your accumulation.

Part of the idea of overaccumulation is that you don't have to keep accumulating as long as you don't withdraw so much as to knock yourself out of overaccumulation status.

You can define those numbers however you like, even though I frequently am responding to guys who are proclaiming that there is some need to continue to accumulate after reaching overaccumulation status when there is not.

For sure, it is good to have options, yet sometimes guys will create their own cages or keep moving the goalposts.. and yeah, you can do whatever the fuck you  want, but you might be being loosey goosey in regards to what bitcoin allows guys to do once they reach overaccumulation status.. which is to completely live off of their bitcoin and to perpetually live off their bitcoin if they structure their finances correctly...

And, yeah, if they have a bit of a cushion, then it helps to make sure that they have enough or more than enough.

My example with WIYO1 was a bit of an exaggeration, since the guy had inadvertently accumulated right around 3.75x his accumulation target, and surely guys do not need to arrive at such extremes in order to still have enough or more than enough to put themselves into a status of no longer needing to ever accumulate any more bitcoin in order to sustain their lifestyle.. perhaps even 20% to 50% above their accumulation target would be enough or more than enough to provide them sufficient assurance that they have enough or more than enough.

Here is the example that I gave to WIYO1:

[edited out]

Maybe you need an example to better illustrate the idea of overaccumulation?

Let's say for example a guy in his mid 30s came to bitcoin around 10.5 years ago, and he was making around $30k per year, and he had been investing in various traditional assets at about $100 per week (which was around 17% of his income) since around 2006, and so between 2006 an 2016, he had invested right around $50k and it had grown to be about $80k in 2016, and so he felt that he was doing pretty good when he found out about bitcoin.

In 2016, he decided to reallocate right around 25% of his already established investment portfolio into bitcoin, and to continue to invest $100 per week into bitcoin and $50 per week into his old investments (based on his having had gotten a raise to $45k per year).

So then in early 2016, he diverted $100 per week into bitcoin and he also withdrew $20k from his various other investments, and put that $20k into bitcoin.

The first $20k, he put into bitcoin at right around $770 per week for the next 26 weeks from January 1, 2016 to June 30, 2016, and he was able to accumulate right around 40 bitcoin.

Since he was already buying $770 per week since the beginning of January 2016, he decided to start his $100 per week on July 1, 2016, and so in the past almost 10 years, since July 1, 2016, his $100 per week hade resulted in $51k invested and about 9.5 BTC.

So right now he has about 49.5  BTC, and his goal had been to be able to live off of his BTC at $80k per year and to give himself a 7% raise in the dollar amount each year... yet he did not realize that to live off of bitcoin at $80k per year, right now he would only need 13.2212 BTC, and so largely he had overaccumulated by close to 36.3 BTC.. and so he has 36.3 BTC extra beyond his earlier established goals.

The greater the overaccumulation the more options that he has, yet he does not have to knock himself out of overaccumulation status in regards to his bitcoin, since right now 13.2212 would be enough to begin withdrawing at his target rate of $6,666 per month and give himself a 7% raise each year and since it is sustainable, he can do it forever and ever and ever, as long as he does not overly deplete his bitcoin holdings, which he should not have a problem since he has right around 4x more bitcoin than he needs for his target withdrawal rate.

Surely, another option he might choose would be to double or triple his withdrawal rate and he would still have enough of a cushion so that he could monitor that he is not overly depleting the rate that he can sustainably withdraw.  I don't see why such a guy would need more, since if he were to decide to quit his $40k per year job, and then he would choose to withdraw at triple his target (at $240k per year), then I don't see why he would need to be fucking around with other assets or be overly scared about if his bitcoin might go up down or sideways once he started to employ his sustainable withdrawal amounts, whether monthly, quarterly or some other periodic basis that he might consider to be convenient.

If the guy had an income of right around $40k, and he decided that his target was to have a perpetual income of $80k, then right now if he had accumulated 13.2212 BTC, he is right on the border of being able to achieve his goals of both $80k per year ($6,666 per month), but also a 7% per year increase in the dollar rate forever into the future... And surely, if he is not comfortable with his calculations he can accumulate more, or withdraw less or just wait some time until the withdrawal rate grows to a high enough level to cause him to be comfortable.

So I see no reason that the guy needs to continue to accumulate bitcoin once he reaches the levels unless he either made a mistake or he were to change his goals... or perhaps he doesn't know what the fuck he is doing... and I am not proclaiming that it is easy to do the calculations and to reach comfort levels in terms of really being in an overaccumulation status and being able to sustainably withdraw from the bitcoin stash without any requirement to continue to accumulate bitcoin.

Even if someone feels that they’ve built a strong position, it doesn’t mean they can fully switch off from thinking about risk or portfolio management because bitcoin is still volatile

Part of the reason to use the 200-WMA in order to evaluate where you are at is in order to iron out some of the volatility and to provide some cushion since the 200-WMA is a bottom indicator...  Sure the bottom is not guaranteed, yet it seems that bitcoin has been (and likely will continue to be) an asset in which you can still figure out ways to manage your holdings and to make sure you have enough and even more than enough without overly oppressing yourself.

Maybe you need go through my time-based sustainable withdrawal ideas to work out some of the ideas of valuating BTC holdings based on the 200-WMA rather than getting distracted by spot price? even though of course, we buy and sell bitcoin at spot price, even though we can figure out ways to valuate our holdings and even to engage in sustainable withdrawal.

, and what looks comfortable in one cycle can feel very different after a big drawdown or a change in personal circumstances.

Surely there could be some guys who reach overaccumulation status within a cycle, but not most normal people... Many times it will take at least a couple of cycles to get to overaccumulation status.. and if his circumstances are changing along the way, then he will taking those matters into account in order to determine if he reached overaccumuation status yet. 

For sure, there are a lot of examples of guys making mistakes in calculating their arrival at overaccumlation status, especially guys using spot price to valuate their holdings and perhaps not employing sufficient sustainable withdrawal amounts, once they reached a point in which they believe they have arrived at overaccumulation status.  Are you planning to make those kinds of mistakes?

And on the withdrawal side too, sustainable rate isn’t a fixed guarantee either, it all depends on how the market performs over time, so it still needs to be flexible and reviewed, not treated as something static.

I think that my system is pretty good.. and sustainable... maybe you should work through the numbers.. and of course if someone does not know what they are doing and they are calculating based on the spot price and making a large number of rookie mistakes then they probably will not be able to get into a sustainable withdrawal system.

You are making comments like you have no fucking clue, and surely if you are in your early bitcoin accumulation phases, you might not have had even worked out the numbers.. Maybe you want to project out your own various scenarios to consider possibilities?  and of course, you projections make more sense when you have been employing them for a while.

I have mentioned several times that guys who front load their bitcoin investments are much more likely to get close to getting to overaccumulation status as compared with guys who do not, yet each of us has to deal with our own abilities, and some guys cannot front load their investment, and if they are investing 5% to 10% of their income into bitcoin, then it will take them 10 to 20 years just to get 1 year income into bitcoin, so they are going to be much disadvantaged as compared with guys who might be able to invest between 15% to 25% or even more of their income into bitcoin which puts them at 4-7 years to put one year's income into bitcoin. 

We should be controlling what we can rather than what we cannot control, and each of us can figure out what we believe is best in terms of how aggressive we are able to be with our bitcoin accumulation within our own ongoing circumstances that are likely changing with the passage of time, and it can take a long ass time to both build wealth and also to recognize ways to utilize wealth that has been built without getting overly distracted into doing dumb shit along the way... and yeah, of course the outcome is not guaranteed, yet guys still have to figure out within their resources what they are going to do in order to help them to have better chances of success as compared with not... and, for sure there are all kinds of examples of guys who worked their asses off their whole life and they still ended up not being able to stop working.. .. some of that may have been due to various mistakes along the way or maybe errors in their management, and so we cannot expect to not go through various mistakes along the way, even if we might ongoingly have goals to build and to make sure that our expectations are realistic.

[edited out]

My statement on having specific profit target is for one who is looking to actually take profit on the bitcoin at certain period of time (I am not a fan of cashing out profit everything because realistically it’s save with bitcoin than in fiat) but just in case the investor wishes to take a little profit then they can actually also look into price target as alternative to time base target. For example if you have an average bitcoin buy price of $30k you can decide to take some profit at probably above $100k but minding that this could take a whole one cycle to reach (4 years) this to me will eliminate procrastination when trying to take off profit.

You still sound distracted by trading ideas, even though I am not opposed to price-based sustainable withdrawal (as I outline in my thread), which from a general perspective would allow the selling of up to 10% of the bitcoin stash every time the bitcoin price doubles, yet I think that those price based sustainable withdrawal tactics work much better if a person is no longer in his bitcoin accumulation phase... since if a guy is buying and selling at the same time, that seems to cause a wrong kind of a mindset.

But one thing I will always say is you better have your coins in bitcoin than another asset so I do not succumb to taking profit unnecessarily or investing for a short period of time, that’s why I say trading is bad except you’re an expert. Hold for long term and you’re save

It still seems a bit ambiguous what you are saying, and sure, staying away from shitcoins is good, too.

If your reach overaccumulation status you don't need to keep accumulating, as long as you don't withdrawal greater than the sustainable rate.

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future.

It does seem that in the earliest times of our bitcoin accumulation we may well be ongoingly buying bitcoin irrespective of price, yet perhaps after we had been accumulating for a while we might start to transition into less aggressive ongoing buys and even buying on dips instead of all of the time, which may or may not be a good idea.. Guys have to measure and of course the size of their already accumulated stash remains an ongoing relevant factor.

In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset.

Bitcoin is already an asset.  It can be treated as an asset and/or as a currency and/or in other ways of being used, too.

Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

Sure.. you are talking about store of value, scarcity and implying other sound money attributes of bitcoin that likely makes bitcoin  the soundest of monies yet known to man based on its scarcity, verifiability, ability to transport easily, divisibility low cost storage and transmission attributes and other attributes. so yeah, bitcoin has value and continues to gain in value (and price) due to more people realizing that bitcoin is the best of monies...

[edited out]

Lack will never go away from you at once, no matter how much wealth you own, your lack is permanent, this lack will never end. There was a time when we did not earn much, our needs were very less, we used to fulfill our needs with that little money, then as we have come, but there was no need, slowly when our income increased, our needs also increased, now we earn a lot, our needs have also increased a lot, so I want to say that lack is unlimited for us, lack will never be a small area for us, for that, of course, it is better to keep a certain budget for investment from the income we have. Now, no matter how much you spend, your needs will never decrease, that is why I want to say that you can never invest after meeting your needs because human needs are unlimited.

If you cannot figure out points in which you have enough or more than enough, then you likely have psychological issues that might have had been conditioned into you, or maybe you are broken... since it is possible to establish points in which a guy has enough and/or more than enough.

You might need some buddhist training?  perhaps?  I am not a buddhist, yet I know how to figure out various points in which I have enough or more than enough.

I even have been giving examples, and for example a guy who had started out earning $30k per year, and then he was at $40k at the point he realized that his bitcoin would support more than $80k per year of perpetual income including a 7% per year raise in the dollar amount.

If you are suggesting that you can never have enough then you are surely going to have a problem being realistic in establishing and maintaining what is over accumulation status, and perhaps you will have troubles reaching it too, since you are having troubles figuring out what it is (similar to BluebloodCXVI as I responded to him above)?

You might also have a problem with deferred gratification, which seems to be a necessary attribute for any actual investor who is not confused about the difference between investing and trading.

[whiteblue]

When we are able to reach the excess savings level, we can stop buying continuously and try to take advantage of the opportunities of the decline. When the market falls, we can buy some during that decline or we can buy aggressively so that we can get a good amount of profit in the future. In the future, Bitcoin may turn into an asset. Just like we buy land now, Bitcoin is being said to be an asset. The demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day and the supply of Bitcoin is very low. And the volatility of Bitcoin is a matter of concern whether Bitcoin can be used instead of fiat currency at the present time and in the future. For all these reasons, I think Bitcoin will turn into an asset.

Maybe you mean that when someone reaches the point of excess savings, they stop investing regularly and take advantage of the price decline. But I want to say something here, in long-term investment, an investor can usually take 10 years, 12 years or even more to reach the point of excess savings. But when he reaches the point of excess savings, he usually thinks about sustainable withdrawal. But if he focuses on buying in the fall without thinking about withdrawal even after reaching the point of excess savings, then when will he actually think about withdrawal??? If he has the idea of increasing his portfolio further by taking advantage of the price decline, then we can do that along with regular investment. So I don't think an investor will think about buying aggressively again after reaching the point of excess savings. Because in this case, an investor is going back to the investment cycle without using his acquired status. Although this is everyone's personal decision. If someone wants to take another opportunity, it is not bad.And I hope that even if someone makes such a decision, they will make the decision considering their financial situation. Still, everything has an end.

I believe investors will never be satisfied with their BTC holdings because if an investor's desire to accumulate Bitcoin continues, They will continue Buying over time. We see many examples of investors continually buying Bitcoin during rising and falling prices, aiming to accumulate more.

Sometimes, when they satisfied, they'll only buy when the price drops, But often, They become more Consistent buyers as they become more confident in their purpose.

Therefore, we must follow their lead by continually buying and holding. This way, we can change our future by the most valuable assets.