as a reminder to all forum members

[RajaDen]

I have taken the time to read a lot and also summarize some of the important points I have learned and also This thread plays as a reminder for all forum members, especially shit posters, whom have kept continuously to post their shitpost daily.

What are everyone's ideas for improving post quality?
I have mostly ruled out:
- Removing signatures or sig ads globally.
 - Requiring payment to wear sig ads.
 - Banning account sales.

Nearly a month later, merit system released
Merit & new rank requirements

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.

Around 2 weeks later, theymos wrote

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.

Above is reminded section on theymos' standpoints on post quality, forum situation, plans and expectation to clean up the forum by merit system.
The system born as main tool to fight against spammers; keep them unable to rank up, and reduce spam posts.

Did it help as expected? Not.

Merit system failed at somewhat extents, spammers stucked on low ranks, but they kept spamming, globally.
That is why around 8 months later, in September last year, theymos moved further by derank Junior Members whom did not earn 1 merit (at least) by that day.

Due to excessive garbage-posting, you now need 1 merit to be a Jr Member. All existing Jr Members who didn't meet the requirement were demoted. Also, newbies can no longer set any signature or personal text.

One reason that I was hesitant to do this before is that there are an awful lot of newbie restrictions, and I don't want the forum to be unwelcoming to good newbies.

After that, it seems merit system and that demotion on old-era Junior Members have significant impacts on spamming here.
Newbies stopped spamming because they can not rank up to Junior Members. It is truly right with farm accounts, but there are 'companies' that run bumping services still use their Newbie accounts to spam globally.
In Welcome message (draft), admin wrote

A lot of people come here primarily looking to make money. The forum administration is very happy that people are able to use the forum in order to better themselves; indeed, one of the reasons for Bitcoin's creation was to break the artificial barriers which prevent so many people around the world from attaining prosperity. However, if your attempts to make money conflict with the forum's primary goal of enabling discussion, then you are swimming upstream, and you will not be sucessful in the end.

If you view the forum as some sort of "job" where you complete some basic tasks and get paid, then you will almost certainly be disappointed, and the forum administration will not be sympathetic. If you do make money using the forum, then it will be through innovation and entrepreneurship, not any sort of mindless busywork.

Notes
Hopefully what I have summarized can be useful as a reminder for all forum members including myself.  & (for spam posters) Please stop or reduce considerably your spam posts. You should support admin's standpoints on post-quality and help the forum as less shitposts as possible.
Be good, be constructive, help the forum, and help yourself!

edit: source here

[Poker Player]

Call me conspiracy theorist if you want but I don't quite believe you are a brand new member.

On the other hand, I don't know why you post this thread here. Spammers don't come here much and those of us who do come here already know more or less that information.

Looking for merits for your alt?

[RajaDen]

Call me conspiracy theorist if you want but I don't quite believe you are a brand new member.

On the other hand, I don't know why you post this thread here. Spammers don't come here much and those of us who do come here already know more or less that information.

Looking for merits for your alt?

I did not expect as what you have in mind. I created this thread just as a reminder.
so please, appreciate my time on this. don't just look from one side and if this thread is not worth it In your opinion. please just ignore it

[Mpamaegbu]

Call me conspiracy theorist if you want but I don't quite believe you are a brand new member.

You're definitely right. Regrettably, I wonder why the user had to do that apart from what you stated in your last paragraph. It's a nice read though and would've fetched OP some merit if it didn't smack of "an attempt to deceive other users into believing it's a genuine noob account"

[Poker Player]

I think you have made a good summary, and although I knew more or less the story, I didn't know it with all the details as you have summarized it. Another thing is that I don't believe that you are a brand new member.

Edited to say that I have given you a merit because I think that just because you are an alt of someone on the forum should not preclude seeing that you have done a good summary and that it will have taken you time.

It's a nice read though and would've fetched OP some merit if it didn't smack of "an attempt to deceive other users into believing it's a genuine noob account"

Yeah. He wil probably get fewer merits than if he was a brand new member but I though he deserves at least one.

[YOSHIE]

Unfortunately very few pay attention to the summary by: @theymos.

Of course it's a good thing you did that summary and warned the community here, but I doubt that Meta is only a handful of people visiting here, they are all busy in the Bounty section, honestly I've compared newcomers and old ones in this forum, I dare say only a few percent understand and obey what is said by: @theymos, the rest is the token part.

For me, it doesn't matter if they make money here Tokens, but at least they can make this forum more weighty, without spamming.

I saw this topic, it means: it's good that there are still members who care about it, but I'm trying to see what percentage of members in particular certain sections can change in the fight against spam, after this topic was created.

At least, I've done a good cleanup (547) spam column by mod.


Whether the number (547) increases or remains, don't know yet.

[lovesmayfamilis]

That is why around 8 months later, in September last year,

Not really sure if this happened last year.


Should we value your time? Why?
You have made this discussion open, if you do not like something, it is not worth wasting your valuable time.
Your story is pretty old. I assure you that all newcomers are more knowledgeable about the merit system than anything else on the forum.
The bottom line is that not everyone understands that if they write something or create a "useful" topic, their creation will really be useful. 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Hopefully what I have summarized can be useful as a reminder for all forum members including myself. 

Personally I didn't need a reminder of all that stuff, but it was a nice summary of the early days of the merit system.  Newer members here are probably not aware of how lousy the forum was prior to the system rolling out.  We had account farmers all over the place, sometimes with multiple alt accounts talking to each other in the same thread and other very bizarre stuff that could only be accounted for by the presence of account farms. 

Yes, the shitposters kept shitposting after Theymos introduced the merit system, but in an instant the incentive to create dozens of new accounts in order to rank them up and sell them or enroll them in bounties or sig campaigns was eliminated, and I think the effect of that was seen pretty dramatically. 

Newcomers also may not realize what Meta looked like at the end of Jan. 2018 and throughout a good part of 2019.  It was absolutely on fire with people either bitching about or praising the merit system, and there were also tons of shitposters who were obviously creating threads trying to earn merits (and it was kind of comical, because Meta was pretty shitpost-free prior to the merit system).  Total chaos.  And hey, those threads still exist for anyone who cares to go back and read them.

[Lucius]

That is why around 8 months later, in September last year,

Not really sure if this happened last year.

He mispronounced, he probably thought it happened 8 months after the merit system was introduced, which is logical considering that the post was created in 2018.


When it comes to fighting spammers and shitposters, anyone who reports at least 5 such posts (report to moderator) every day will make a bigger difference than any system that a forum can implement. The calculation is clear, 5x365 = 1825 - and if only 100 users would do it on a daily basis, we come to the number of 182 500 posts that would be deleted in one year.

Unfortunately, some of the high-ranking members have declared this tactic a waste of time, doing even more damage because it affects others who follow their example.

[skarais]

For me, it doesn't matter if they make money here Tokens, but at least they can make this forum more weighty, without spamming.

Without spamming it is the most difficult hope to achieve even when contributors manage to report thousands of posts every month. Spamming or not really depend on the habit of the user and what the purpose is in the forum. If they are only concerned with quantity (to get paid) then they will find it difficult to achieve the expected quality.

KingsDen - RajaDen have the same meaning in different language, it is the same in Indonesian. But I don't think these two account belong to the same person or maybe KingsDen can confirm it.

[lovesmayfamilis]

KingsDen - RajaDen have the same meaning in different language, it is the same in Indonesian. But I don't think these two account belong to the same person or maybe KingsDen can confirm it.

Ghost hunting again? The first KingsDen account belongs to the Nigerian society and the second appearance to the Indonesian.
The nickname is quite popular, I would not associate them. Moreover, KingsDen already has one suspected viola in its history. Probably now everything related to kings and princes will relate to one participant. 

[skarais]

Ghost hunting again? The first KingsDen account belongs to the Nigerian society and the second appearance to the Indonesian.
The nickname is quite popular, I would not associate them. Moreover, KingsDen already has one suspected viola in its history. Probably now everything related to kings and princes will relate to one participant.  

No, no, I didn't mean it that way. I am just telling you that King & Raja have the same meaning in different language ​​or specially in Indonesian language.  
RajaDen sounds like someone from Indonesia but I can't confirm that's true because he doesn't have any activity there. However he is not a new user on this forum.

[hd49728]

Magic.

It's very lazy plagiarism of my post. I believe no excuse or appeal will be accepted. I can not imagine why you want to earn merit and copied, pasted, skipped source to get it.  

I have taken the time to read a lot and also summarize some of the important points I have learned and also This thread plays as a reminder for all forum members, especially shit posters, whom have kept continuously to post their shitpost daily.

One of shitpost.

This thread plays as a reminder for all forum members, especially shit posters, whom have kept continuously to post their shitpost daily.
This thread is for old-era members, and for new-era members whom joined here after merit system kicked-off.

What are everyone's ideas for improving post quality?

I have mostly ruled out:

- Removing signatures or sig ads globally.
 - Requiring payment to wear sig ads.
 - Banning account sales.

Nearly a month later, merit system released
Merit & new rank requirements

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.

Around 2 weeks later, theymos wrote

It's too early to get a clear picture, but my thoughts so far:

First, most people complaining about merit are constantly posting garbage, and should not rank-up. The forum is not a welfare system; you don't run through a few hoops and then get paid for doing something that nobody actually wants. I like that good forum members can make money, especially when said forum members are in poorer countries and this is a major opportunity for them. I very much do not want to destroy the sig-ad/airdrop/bounty "industry". But I am not going to tolerate people posting garbage upon garbage. If the merit system completely fails and I can't think of anything else to replace it, then my next step will probably be to completely remove all ways for forum users to make money from posting (eg. removing signatures entirely).

Maybe there are ways for people who were making money by posting garbage on the forum to make money on other sites with easy bounties, etc. (For example, I don't know if they're actually any good, but https://bountyhive.io is currently advertising on the forum.) But people should use the forum to talk about these money-making ideas, not as a way of making money itself. Once you spend a lot of time here, you may be able to make some money here (which is great!), but you should consider this a far-off hope, not your primary objective.

BTW, if anyone has any ideas for simple things that these ex-nonsense-posters could usefully do to make money, I think that this'd be a good project right now. There are apparently quite a few people who were making money on the forum and could use guidance. Even though their past activities were not good for this forum, I doubt that they are useless in general.

Above is reminded section on theymos' standpoints on post quality, forum situation, plans and expectation to clean up the forum by merit system.
The system born as main tool to fight against spammers; keep them unable to rank up, and reduce spam posts.

Did it help as expected? Not.

Merit system failed at somewhat extents, spammers stucked on low ranks, but they kept spamming, globally.
That is why around 8 months later, in September last year, theymos moved further by derank Junior Members whom did not earn 1 merit (at least) by that day.

Due to excessive garbage-posting, you now need 1 merit to be a Jr Member. All existing Jr Members who didn't meet the requirement were demoted. Also, newbies can no longer set any signature or personal text.

One reason that I was hesitant to do this before is that there are an awful lot of newbie restrictions, and I don't want the forum to be unwelcoming to good newbies.

After that, it seems merit system and that demotion on old-era Junior Members have significant impacts on spamming here.
Newbies stopped spamming because they can not rank up to Junior Members. It is truly right with farm accounts, but there are 'companies' that run bumping services still use their Newbie accounts to spam globally.
In Welcome message (draft), admin wrote

A lot of people come here primarily looking to make money. The forum administration is very happy that people are able to use the forum in order to better themselves; indeed, one of the reasons for Bitcoin's creation was to break the artificial barriers which prevent so many people around the world from attaining prosperity. However, if your attempts to make money conflict with the forum's primary goal of enabling discussion, then you are swimming upstream, and you will not be sucessful in the end.

If you view the forum as some sort of "job" where you complete some basic tasks and get paid, then you will almost certainly be disappointed, and the forum administration will not be sympathetic. If you do make money using the forum, then it will be through innovation and entrepreneurship, not any sort of mindless busywork.

Solutions
Please stop or reduce considerably your spam posts. Admin actually want to keep signature and signature industry, for good users, to have extra income.
You should support admin's standpoints on post-quality and help the forum as less shitposts as possible.
Be good, be constructive, help the forum, and help yourself!

[Poker Player]

Sorry about not checking for plagiarism before. I just took for granted that it was an alt account. I couldn't have imagined someone so dumb as to create a thread in meta plagiarizing a bitcointalk post.