CBDC will make Bitcoin MORE valuable

[blockman]

It'll work just like the stable coins that usually gets to help the pumping for bitcoin. We can't stop these CBDCs since it is the government that will push its use through their mandatory ruling. But OP is right that due to the censorship that it's going to provide and to make it easier to understand, the centralization that it will commit once they're already running. Not everyone is going to like it, there will be more people that would like to stay private and anonymous and with that choice, they'll be ending up still straight to bitcoin.

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[Wind_FURY]

It's a very big assumption to think that CBDC will even be released, so far all these years it was nothing more than just an idea. If central banks really wanted it, they would have at least made some prototypes by now, after all it has been 2-3 years since the CBDC hype has started. And then, even if some countries will make it, it's not a fact they they will be widely adopted. And then it's a big "if" people will pushed towards Bitcoin, because people quite easily give up their freedoms, especially in finance, when most people have no idea of what's going on.

I believe the first demonstrations of a real CBDC in practice will be China’s CBDC during the Olympics next month.

Plus I also believe that many of the posters might have missed the main point of the topic. CBDC strengthens Bitcoin’s narrative/main value-proposition, which is as a censorship-resistant, decentralized digital currency, and therefore the mere fact that it exists, makes Bitcoin more valuable.

Paper-money might be centralized, but it is more private, and more censorship-resistant than a CBDC will ever be. What would stop the central issuer from censoring anyone in that system? Didn’t the Cypherpunks want to build a network for a decentralized currency that no central authority could control?

[NeuroticFish]

i dont see bitcoin as a take-over attempt of fiat.

Me neither.

i dont see bitcoin as something that needs 'dollar'

im in the UK and i can buy US products with my pounds. because yes there are middlemen that accept pounds and THEY convert it to dollar for the merchant.

im invested in bitcoin and i can buy US products with my bitcoin. because yes there are middlemen that accept bitcoin and THEY convert it to dollar for the merchant.

this DOES NOT mean my pounds need the american dollar to promote pounds.
thats what forex exchanges were made for to have them hedge the risks of exchanging. so that pounds can play in UK and dollars can play in america without them being dependant on each other.

Here the situation is imho more nuanced.
You say you don't need USD, and you're somehow right, you don't. But the middlemen do, hence, indirectly, you need it to. (Please don't argue with semantics, I think that I am pretty clear).
The same goes with Bitcoin: we won't need US dollar, or fiat, but we will need all payment processors handle bitcoin, not just very few (and, at least in my country, overly expensive).
And maybe CBDCs can help with that, by making the connection easier. Or maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm hoping too much. We'll see.

but now lets go back to the practicality of a CBDC vs bitcoin.
if a CBDC does everything faster, cheaper then bitcoin. people just wont see the point of bitcoin

Fiat already does that now. And since it's the merchants who pays most of the fees, the consumer may even think that it's for free.
What bitcoin does better now is only 3 things:
* it can be used internationally, easily, without conversion
* it's a much better investment than any other currency
* it works well without banks, KYC, the need to have a certain age or live in a "better" country

Although the 3rd is the reason Bitcoin was made for, many don't care about it (they care only about 2).
I'd say that our aim is to see 1 work much better, i.e. have much more shops accepting bitcoin directly (and whatever the payment processor does internally is a more complicated story).

It's a very big assumption to think that CBDC will even be released, so far all these years it was nothing more than just an idea

I believe the first demonstrations of a real CBDC in practice will be China’s CBDC during the Olympics next month.

It depends on the country. China is most probably marching for CBDCs for multiple reasons.
The one that they can advertise is that they won't have to pay big fees to VISA/Mastercard.
The one they are interested in is total control. The control over everybody's money, everybody's wallets. How easy will the opponents made poor in minutes!

[KaliLinux]

While we don't know exactly how a certain country's CBDC would work, I'm going to guess it would just be very close to how fiat works on finance platforms like online banking and PayPal; that requires AML/KYC by default anywyay. I don't think having CBDCs would change a thing.

I believe you are right about it. I was reading the Five Observations on Nigeria’s Central Bank Digital Currency some time ago and that quoted section cut my attention,

"Like coins or cash, the eNaira is a liability of the CBN. The eNaira uses the same blockchain technology as Bitcoin or Ethereum and, like them, the eNaira is stored in digital wallets and can be used for payment transactions; and it can be transferred digitally and at virtually no cost to anyone in the world with an eNaira wallet. There are, however, important differences. First, the eNaira features stringent access right controls by the central bank. Second, unlike these crypto-assets, the eNaira is not a financial asset in itself but a digital form of a national currency and draws its value from the physical naira, to which it is pegged at parity."

Even though they try to liken it to Bitcoin and Ethereum Blockchain, we can see what the bolded part is noting. Regardless of the country where CBDC has been implemented, I believe that will be the same, pegged to the countries currency which is not the thing with cryptocurrencies and of cause with AML/KYC requirements too.

[Wind_FURY]

It's a very big assumption to think that CBDC will even be released, so far all these years it was nothing more than just an idea

I believe the first demonstrations of a real CBDC in practice will be China’s CBDC during the Olympics next month.
 

It depends on the country. China is most probably marching for CBDCs for multiple reasons.
The one that they can advertise is that they won't have to pay big fees to VISA/Mastercard.
The one they are interested in is total control. The control over everybody's money, everybody's wallets. How easy will the opponents made poor in minutes!

Do you actually believe that any other government, especially like the U.S., don’t want total control over money? Plus, no, it won’t be advertised as something not to pay large fees to VISA/Mastercard. It would be advertised as “safe”, “secure”, and what everyone loves = “fast and convenient”. But what it actually is is total control over YOUR money by bypassing the current financial system.

[NeuroticFish]

Do you actually believe that any other government, especially like the U.S., don’t want total control over money?

This is the beauty of democracy: they can't. Or better said, they cannot do at the levels China would do.
And for US, the agencies already have the control they need. In US the bank will do all you want if you have the warrant. And the agencies will also not move a finger without a warrant. So there are no real gains there.

Plus, no, it won’t be advertised as something not to pay large fees to VISA/Mastercard. It would be advertised as “safe”, “secure”, and what everyone loves = “fast and convenient”.

Maybe, although VISA/MC are also advertised as safe, secure, fast, convenient. Then what would be the added benefit?

But what it actually is is total control over YOUR money by bypassing the current financial system.

Of course. We're on the same page here.

[Wind_FURY]

Do you actually believe that any other government, especially like the U.S., don’t want total control over money?

This is the beauty of democracy: they can't. Or better said, they cannot do at the levels China would do.
And for US, the agencies already have the control they need. In US the bank will do all you want if you have the warrant. And the agencies will also not move a finger without a warrant. So there are no real gains there.

There are no absolutes, I cannot say that it will happen, but no one can’t say that it will never happen either. But the actual point is, if CBDC happens, it will make Bitcoin’s narrative/main value-proposition definitely more valuable, and therefore actual value will go up.

Plus, no, it won’t be advertised as something not to pay large fees to VISA/Mastercard. It would be advertised as “safe”, “secure”, and what everyone loves = “fast and convenient”.

Maybe, although VISA/MC are also advertised as safe, secure, fast, convenient. Then what would be the added benefit?

Do you believe that they would actually do it for our added benefit?

[NeuroticFish]

Do you believe that they would actually do it for our added benefit?

No. It's not what we have been talking about. We were talking about how it's advertised. And the advertisement you've been telling about is no different from what we actually have.
I'm not sure why you need re-explained what we have been talking about...

[Wind_FURY]

Do you believe that they would actually do it for our added benefit?

No. It's not what we have been talking about. We were talking about how it's advertised. And the advertisement you've been telling about is no different from what we actually have.
I'm not sure why you need re-explained what we have been talking about...

That’s PRECISELY the point! Because they don’t care if there is or if there isn’t a benefit for you. Plus this isn’t some “product” for payments like PayPal. It’s an actual attempt to bypass the banking system by the Federal Reserve. It might actually not need “advertising”, because from their standpoint, CBDC issued by them = U.S. Dollars.

[kryptqnick]

So funny that CBDC requires KYC while people can still use tons of cash without ID, no problem there. But if they feel so strongly about CBDCs, how do they feel about Bitcoin? What if they introduce something similar, requiring KYC every time a person uses Bitcoin as payment. And, I guess, KYC's already required on exchanges in the US, right? So while Bitcoin can bring more freedom to people in other countries that have milder regulations, people in the US might not feel much difference. Except, of course, if we consider that it's possible to use Bitcoin without KYC (but might be illegal), whereas a CBDC developed under the restrictions might have something in the way it's made and works that requires KYC.

[doomloop]

It is everything that Bitcoin it not. I believe if CBDC is fully adopted, it will only increase demand for a censorship-resistant type of money. Bitcoin.

I already knew that is how it is going to be, so I am not surprised at all about this. The government never liked bitcoin because of how they were not able to control it, decentralization and how users are able to to maintain privacy with it. They have laid out so many complaints on why they would want to stop people from making use of cryptocurrency, going as far as to say that it is being used for illicit activities only.

And I have read about the CBDC’s that were released in other countries, such China and Nigeria and how these things worked, KYC was required and the government will have every information about you. So it’s not going to work out for sure. At the end People will abandon CBDC, that’s the truth.

[stepwilli]

I believe that CBDCs are a first step towards a full adoption of cryptos in the traditional economy. Bitcoin can benefit from this, as well as blockchain in general. however, stablecoins are already a reality and are currently worth more than $120 billion dollars according to https://blockchainjournal.news/bank-of-america-says-stablecoins-and-cbdcs-are-inevitable/

Stablecoins are not a new thing, they have been around for long and moreover they are different from CBDC. Although CBDC might be paired to Fiat, it is not CBDC, it is not controlled by the central banks. CBDC is known as Central Bank Digital Currency, so it is not stablecoin and is different from USDT, DAI and the rest of them.

It is just something else on its own, and moreover there haven’t been much of CBDC that I know of yet, apart from Chinese digital Yuan which no one is even talking about any longer, nobody cares about it this time around. According to my research there have been other CBDC’s that were released in the past but were not a success.

[Smartvirus]

The paper says, “In practice, this would mean that a CBDC intermediary would need to verify the identity of a person accessing CBDC, just as banks and other financial institutions currently verify the identities of their customers.”

It will KYC everyone, and invade your privacy.

It also says, “ Intermediated models for a U.S. CBDC have the distinct advantage of involving private-sector partners with established programs to help ensure compliance with these rules.”

Is that developing the mechanisms to censor the user?

It is everything that Bitcoin it not. I believe if CBDC is fully adopted, it will only increase demand for a censorship-resistant type of money. Bitcoin.

And for sure, this is everything that bitcoin or bitcoin doesn't wish to go with. As there would be atoms of centralisation until there won't be any living decentralized of the currency nor more. Yeah, the censorship or increased demand might come in as majority might want to div in though, I doubt it would have the value it does have today. Bitcoin is for everyone for sure but truly, it's only up for a few sats that some users can truly have. Should CBDC come in play, its demand might rise but not as much its value as, in my thinking, I feel most of the big players in the  whales would be no more.

[DapanasFruit]

One thing for sure...when the government will say something like this and like that, there is more chance that it would be the opposite that can happen. And it would be true with how they are viewing can happen with Bitcoin, cryptocurrency and stablecoin once there is already an operational CBDC in the USA while other countries are now in advanced state of introducing the same. CBDCs are just digital version of the fiat money...nothing more nothing less. Bitcoin is definitely more than being a digital money...its features and characteristics define Bitcoin and we already know what are they and we like them.

[witcher_sense]

The main difference between bitcoin and all CBDCs that are currently being developed all over the world is in the purpose they serve. The main purpose of bitcoin is to be money that can be used both as a medium of exchange and a store of value which in turn implies non-intervention from any authority that always tends to distort the purposes money should serve. Bitcoin is immune to intervention, so it can functions as money perfectly. The main idea of CBDC is to be a government's tool to manage the economy, to be the means to more effectively control and surveil the population who engage in economic activities, to be the justification of the very existence of government control over the economy. Economic activities are very inefficient in the absence of money, but if money is fully controlled by a single entity, it gives this entity enormous power over individuals wanting to engage in voluntary-agreed transactions. The thing is with the introduction of an invisible third party to each transaction, these transactions become less voluntary and more forced because the meddling with money makes it less valuable and subject to gradual depreciation. People increasingly transact not because they want to, but because they have to spend their money before money loses value even more due to the government's intervention. Bitcoin is valuable because it allows people to think for themselves, it allows them to avoid being forced to spend their savings that are gradually falling in value.

[Wind_FURY]

I believe that CBDCs are a first step towards a full adoption of cryptos in the traditional economy.

That’s laughable. CBDC is NOT a cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin can benefit from this, as well as blockchain in general. however, stablecoins are already a reality and are currently worth more than $120 billion dollars according to https://blockchainjournal.news/bank-of-america-says-stablecoins-and-cbdcs-are-inevitable/

That’s my point, CBDC, digital currency network that can censor you and will censor you, WILL make Bitcoin’s narrative and main value-proposition 100x more valuable if CBDC is widely adopted around the world.

[Albescent]

CBDC is a digital form of fiat currency being regulated by a central bank. The increase in the value of bitcoin doesn’t depend on CBDC as bitcoin has its own goodwill in the  market. 

[Wind_FURY]

CBDCs about to use the same “our-network-is-faster-than-bitcoin” narrative as shitcoins have for the past 7 years





https://twitter.com/tuurdemeester/status/1489347282231255040

I believe, like me, some people truly remain not to understand what Bitcoin was designed for, or what its point of existence actually is. Other people, seem to have forgotten. I know it’s an asset for a great many of us, BUT by design, it might not merely be a “Store of Value”, or a mere “Currency”. I believe it’s more, and hopefully we plebs will continue to learn it together.

[CaVO32]

CBDC is a digital form of fiat currency being regulated by a central bank. The increase in the value of bitcoin doesn’t depend on CBDC as bitcoin has its own goodwill in the  market. 

Maybe, not in literal meaning but the circumstances that may possibly surround the boost in CBDC usage. Once people understand the difference between CBDC (centralized) vs. BTC (decentralized), they may possibly choose BTC for this nature. So though there is no direct relationship between CBDC and BTC, there are possible repercussions if there is high usage of CBDC in the market. Those who are not yet into BTC, will also go to BTC once they discover it after their CBDC experience.

[Gyfts]

So what happens when CBDC's are adopted, and everyone is then dependent on the government to monitor digital pixels that appear on their banking portals, and Bitcoin is then banned by these governments? What happens if the governments won't allow CBDC's to be spent at online exchanges, or be sent to merchants that do business with Bitcoin? It's not a good idea to have your finances tied to an entity that can lock you out on a whim. The strategy for government with CBDC's is to create mass adoption, and then shut out competing crypto currencies.