CBDC will make Bitcoin MORE valuable

[Webetcoins]

Any online banking involves all of the things you describe. When you shop with your visa or mastercard, banks and the government, represented by the financial regulator, can easily track all your transactions. So I don't really understand the difference between CBDC and regular online payments. In both, you are a customer of a bank with KYC. Or am I missing something besides the fact that CBDC is on a blockchain?

Thank you for making that point. I have also been asking myself this same question since the government started introducing CBDC. CBDC was also introduced in my country, and so far I haven’t really seen the need for it. Whenever I open my online banking app, I usually see an option that says to link my CBDC wallet to my bank app, which doesn’t seem necessary to me, since it is still the same Fiat.

So, what’s the need for having a CBDC when it is still that same Fiat that we’re all making use of. Same thing that the digital currency provided by the central bank is offering, is the same features that we see in online banking, so it’s totally unnecessary for the government to be creating a digital currency.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't think anything will change fundamentally if central banks issue their own cryptocurrency. The end user does not care how they transfer or receive dollars or other currency. If you are a bank customer, then you have already given them your documents and gone through the KYC process. And to use CBDC, it would probably be enough to be a bank customer.

It would require your CBDC wallet to go through KYC, and this doesn’t work like fiat-cash/paper money. Cash/paper money, anyone can receive and spend it, no one can monitor it if I buy Heroine, pay for sex, or gamble with friends. CBDC is used through a centralized network that is monitored, with your identity exposed, and all your transactions known to the government/central bank. If they decide they don’t like where you spend your money, you can be censored, or cancelled. If this becomes the presiding form of fiat-money, how much more valuable will Bitcoin’s main value-proposition/narrative become?

Any online banking involves all of the things you describe. When you shop with your visa or mastercard, banks and the government, represented by the financial regulator, can easily track all your transactions. So I don't really understand the difference between CBDC and regular online payments. In both, you are a customer of a bank with KYC. Or am I missing something besides the fact that CBDC is on a blockchain?

You’re missing something in that with banks you will have some consumer protection, you can withdraw cash from your account, and the Central Banks/Federal Reserve don’t have direct access to your account. In a CBDC network, your money isn’t truly your money, which would also increase the value/demand for a cash/paper money narrative.

[fzkto]

I don't think anything will change fundamentally if central banks issue their own cryptocurrency. The end user does not care how they transfer or receive dollars or other currency. If you are a bank customer, then you have already given them your documents and gone through the KYC process. And to use CBDC, it would probably be enough to be a bank customer.

It would require your CBDC wallet to go through KYC, and this doesn’t work like fiat-cash/paper money. Cash/paper money, anyone can receive and spend it, no one can monitor it if I buy Heroine, pay for sex, or gamble with friends. CBDC is used through a centralized network that is monitored, with your identity exposed, and all your transactions known to the government/central bank. If they decide they don’t like where you spend your money, you can be censored, or cancelled. If this becomes the presiding form of fiat-money, how much more valuable will Bitcoin’s main value-proposition/narrative become?

Any online banking involves all of the things you describe. When you shop with your visa or mastercard, banks and the government, represented by the financial regulator, can easily track all your transactions. So I don't really understand the difference between CBDC and regular online payments. In both, you are a customer of a bank with KYC. Or am I missing something besides the fact that CBDC is on a blockchain?

You’re missing something in that with banks you will have some consumer protection, you can withdraw cash from your account, and the Central Banks/Federal Reserve don’t have direct access to your account. In a CBDC network, your money isn’t truly your money, which would also increase the value/demand for a cash/paper money narrative.

I don't think the money in the bank account is yours either. In my country, the state can easily seize all your accounts and deprive the money from you. For example by classifying you as a terrorist sponsor or something like that. So it turns out that only cash can belong to you.

[Ozero]

Biden seen issuing crypto oversight exec order next week
https://ph.news.yahoo.com/biden-order-on-crypto-oversight-expected-next-week-source-says-173452499.html?
Explain what is happening in the US. Do they also want to create their own CBDC?

Of course, both the US and the European Union have already announced that they are starting to create their own CBDCs. True, they will be able to launch them only around 2025. You need to be prepared for the fact that in the future almost every state will have its own CBDC. After all, CBDCs have better characteristics compared to non-cash payments of states.
We don’t yet know exactly what impact CBDCs will have on cryptocurrencies. But it looks like they will create some competition for crypto as a means of payment. After all, some in exchange for the protection of states will sacrifice confidentiality and anonymity.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't think anything will change fundamentally if central banks issue their own cryptocurrency. The end user does not care how they transfer or receive dollars or other currency. If you are a bank customer, then you have already given them your documents and gone through the KYC process. And to use CBDC, it would probably be enough to be a bank customer.

It would require your CBDC wallet to go through KYC, and this doesn’t work like fiat-cash/paper money. Cash/paper money, anyone can receive and spend it, no one can monitor it if I buy Heroine, pay for sex, or gamble with friends. CBDC is used through a centralized network that is monitored, with your identity exposed, and all your transactions known to the government/central bank. If they decide they don’t like where you spend your money, you can be censored, or cancelled. If this becomes the presiding form of fiat-money, how much more valuable will Bitcoin’s main value-proposition/narrative become?

Any online banking involves all of the things you describe. When you shop with your visa or mastercard, banks and the government, represented by the financial regulator, can easily track all your transactions. So I don't really understand the difference between CBDC and regular online payments. In both, you are a customer of a bank with KYC. Or am I missing something besides the fact that CBDC is on a blockchain?

You’re missing something in that with banks you will have some consumer protection, you can withdraw cash from your account, and the Central Banks/Federal Reserve don’t have direct access to your account. In a CBDC network, your money isn’t truly your money, which would also increase the value/demand for a cash/paper money narrative.

I don't think the money in the bank account is yours either. In my country, the state can easily seize all your accounts and deprive the money from you. For example by classifying you as a terrorist sponsor or something like that. So it turns out that only cash can belong to you.

It’s not, but you have the freedom to withdraw cash from your account, which is truly yours. In CBDC, you hold it in CBDC. Plus saying that doesn’t help the case for CBDC, it makes it worse. Which is why, HODL Bitcoin as a hedge. It’s also not just a market hedge, it’s a hedge in case the politicians and the banksters make bad decisions.

If you believe CBDC is OK, and surrendering control is OK because “it will be the same system as the current banking system”, then I cannot convince you.

[franky1]

funny part is seems some people are drinking too much of the western media propaganda kool-aid

their view on things are not from experience of ever travelling to china, nor researching about chine.. ..but from things they read from other people that never went there.
they view china as some country where everyone has to use a unionpay app (the government owned app) where no one can touch paper money and how the government is already watching everyone. .. (gotta love the racial propaganda machine.. by this i mean love it the way you love a mother inlaw)

its funny because on soo soo soo many levels, these propagandist followers "research" falls flat to actual fact.

lets take certain peoples last "assumption" that in china people cant withdraw out of current apps. and wont be able to withdraw out of a CBDC..
you can actually withdraw out of CBDC because guess what. people will want to go on holiday and get foreign currency. they are not stuck their whole lives only using 1 currency/app. yep real life fact. people do change currency. alot.
also CDBC is not de-facto the only medium of exchange of china now, nor in the future. not just because people can change to other countries fiat. but because other payment services exist.. ill explain this later

now lets take the propaganda about the lack of freedom of paper money thing spouted about for years
any tourist going to china does not need to sign up to some chinese silly app and expose life history just to get some travel money. they can go to any local currency exchange in their local city ask for RMB and yep they get handed RMB..
how is this possible.. well, this might shock some..  china does actually use paper money.. .. are you shocked?.. well you shoulnt be

now lets take the shamefully wrong "one government app" propaganda. .. china (country..(not government)) actually has MANY.
and guess what else. they are apps of private corporations.
alipay, QQpay, huaweiPay, wepay, tenpay to name just a few.

as for the propaganda thinking that even right now china's CBDC is a closed system where the government watches everything.. pfft. again lack of research

yes the central bank creates tokens out of nothing for its mega reserve.
yes there is no 'mining' for citizens
  - to create/earn CBDC tokens via supporting the network/mining
  - meaning no 'bank account savings interest'
yes central bank 'smart contracts' out allotments to several commercial private banks and payment services.
yes the commercial private banks/payment services then divide up their allotments into accounts
  - cross connected between each other
  - downstream to their wallet service providers/agents/ bank branch locations
  - downstream to customers at different levels depending on certain things

its these private payment services and banks that then manage their customers accounts. where the commercial services monitor for any red flags and then reports only suspects to authorities. (much the same as how western countries get MSB's to monitor its customers)

as for the KYC stuff. the private banks/services have 3 levels of wallet apps EACH. the lowest level has a basic facility of liquidity (low total balance allowed) where by the customer does not need to give any KYC information. but if they want any more liquidity(total balance allowed) they have to upgrade to a different level wallet that does require KYC.

the KYC is NOT stored at the central bank level but at the commercial service that serves the customer

[Wind_FURY]

I believe the best current example of what CBDC will be made and designed for is what Trudeau is currently doing, but CBDC will make it more direct, and more efficient. Don’t let disinforming/gaslighting trolls mislead you that everything will be “OK” under a CBDC system.

[pooya87]

its these private payment services and banks that then manage their customers accounts. where the commercial services monitor for any red flags and then reports only suspects to authorities. (much the same as how western countries get MSB's to monitor its customers)

This is what should happen and on paper it is but you are so naive to think this is really happening in reality. You should travel to Canada these days to see how there is no need for anything "suspicious" for the government to monitor every single activity you have 24/7. For example people went on Facebook and liked any post that was remotely related to the protests and in less than 24 hours they had a visit from their local law enforcement, some of them got their homes raided. All for liking a post that the government should not even be able to monitor!

[franky1]

its these private payment services and banks that then manage their customers accounts. where the commercial services monitor for any red flags and then reports only suspects to authorities. (much the same as how western countries get MSB's to monitor its customers)

This is what should happen and on paper it is but you are so naive to think this is really happening in reality. You should travel to Canada these days to see how there is no need for anything "suspicious" for the government to monitor every single activity you have 24/7. For example people went on Facebook and liked any post that was remotely related to the protests and in less than 24 hours they had a visit from their local law enforcement, some of them got their homes raided. All for liking a post that the government should not even be able to monitor!

fun fact faccebook is public.
fun fact the campaign organisers DO have "separatist" rebellion/radicalisation tendencies. research the 'wexit' connection to the campaign organisers
its not that random people 'liked' a trucker protest post.
its that they liked a post related to the political radicalists other motivations.. (where by the radicalists also organised a trucker protest)
and yes i see how you said 'remotely related to the protest' so i know you know what they were actually 'liking' because you know it was not about the truckers


fun fact if the truckers(those without radicalised tendencies) organised the fundraiser drive and the protest, the situation would be far far different... the trucker protest was not the problem. the anti-gov radicalism of 'wexit' separatists was the problem

the actions were not due to the trucker event. it was due to the radicals that were involved that had other motivations

EG reading your many posts on different topics related to the canadaian situation where you have repeatedly mentioned "government, government government, trudeau.."

it seems even you are more leaning towards wanting a government rebellion, where even you sound like an anti-gov radicalist.  rather than care about truckers 'rights to work'

so if someone knocks on your door. its not because you have sympathy for the truckers not being able to work. its because you sound like a rebel that likes the separatists agenda.

with that said. bringing the conversation back on topic.
yes people can apply to courts with reasons to believe that certain other people might be doing something criminal. and even before a trial is even triggered to judge the suspects guilt. a court can actually at the pre-trial stages make orders to prevent suspects from absconding, destroying evidence, intimidating witnesses, removing/replacing or otherwise spending assets linked to certain activities, and the judge can order businesses to monitor such funds/assets.

its not a bunch of members of parliament that do the monitoring. its the private corporate businesses offering the payment service that are requested to monitor suspicious activities and report any that are found

[Wind_FURY]

Bank of England tells ministers to intervene on digital currency 'programming' - "Digital cash could be programmed to ensure it is only spent on essentials, or goods which an employer or Government deems to be sensible"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/o7ufgf/bank_of_england_tells_ministers_to_intervene_on/

The Government and the Central Banksters’ new narrative, and everyone will love them, because “more security”. Shitcoins would be more valuable than CBDC-arcade-tokens, simply because users can spend them with more freedom, anywhere they want.

[franky1]

as for certain person trying to quite a reddit, which quotes a news media behind a paywall
here is a more direct source to the bank of england statement
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/speech/2021/june/tom-mutton-pre-recorded-keynote-speech-the-future-of-fintech-digital-conference

programmable money/payments report from the omfif
https://www.omfif.org/2021/07/cbdc-systems-should-focus-on-programmable-payments/

When talking about programmability, it is crucial to note the distinction between programmable money and programmable payments. The two terms are often used interchangeably, but there is a difference.

Programmable money is designed with in-built rules that constrain the user. These rules could mean that money expires after a fixed date or its use is restricted to a certain set of goods. This would affect digital currency acceptance and has obvious legal implications.

Programmable payments, on the other hand, enable automatic transfers to be carried out or blocked when pre-determined conditions are met. These could include daily spending limits or recurring payments, similar to direct debits and standing orders but with added complexity and conditionality. Programmability features could bring numerous benefits, enabling new workflows, processes and digital business models without affecting the properties of the currency itself.
..
At its most basic, the ability to programme payments boosts convenience and improves efficiency for a wide range of stakeholders. CBDCs must include programmability as a feature – as long as programmable logic is located outside of the asset.

well.. take way the jargon. and translate it into a altnet language certain people know
funds locked into certain channels(accounts/apps) can only:
route to certain hubs/nodes connected along partnered nodes.
funding limits of what the channel funding lock allows
lock time restricted to certain length channel(account) can remain open
CLTV limits how long a payment can remain valid before it expires

thus limiting spend-ability against wider range of channels outside the limited routes/agreements available

wallet software has different "autopilot" features that can automate payments or trigger events when certain messages are received between wallet software

..
if anyone is actually interested in real research and not the tin foil anti-gov speculation propaganda. certain people above spout

look at the BIS developing the M-bridge, which will become something like a 'brics' counterpart of the 'amero' IMF
BIS is already linking China, Hongkong, Russia, United Arab Emirates, Thailand, and the UK is working with BIS too

(personal joke: all they need is switzerland to join in and they can have 'chrust', pronounced trust with a lisp)

[beerlover]

It is not really a matter of you are losing your privacy because the government would be requiring information from you before you are able to access the central banks digital currencies. Although that can be part of the reasons why some people would avoid it, because they would like to keep their privacy and not give the government too much of access into their daily activities.

But, I think one thing that would make people not to be interested in the CBDC is because it doesn’t make any sense. The government are just fighting to create their own cryptocurrency so that they can stop Bitcoin, but it is not making any sense at all.

[franky1]

It is not really a matter of you are losing your privacy because the government would be requiring information from you before you are able to access the central banks digital currencies.

actually. most of the CBDC are aiming for the same thing. 3 different levels of wallets whereby you start at a low limit account and it asks for no human life ID. and if you want to extend your limits, then you upgrade the app to the next level and provide ID to get more facilities

But, I think one thing that would make people not to be interested in the CBDC is because it doesn’t make any sense. The government are just fighting to create their own cryptocurrency so that they can stop Bitcoin, but it is not making any sense at all.

its not even about stopping bitcoin.

its actually so they can have a cheap payment system that just does its job without the need of bank managers and IT guys and security staff..
basically get rid of the physical bank branches and they can save billions a year, get rid of the bank branch staff and save billions a year, get rid of the security staff and IT guys maintaining servers and save billions a year.
have a multi sig smart contract approach and avoid any malicious staff member defrauding their employer, by having all payments secured by digital signatures. saving millions a year

the cost/maintenance and auditing and accounting of the SWIFT network costs alot.
imagine if it just became as cheap as running a few nodes per country.

its also that swift settles in 48hours+
where as CBDC settles in 2-10 seconds

funniest part is there are certain people in this topic that dont like blockchains but do like altnets of smart contract design, but what they do not realise is that CBDC is also a typology that more resembles their favoured altnet.

its not even a system thats even trying to be bitcoin

it has got some advantages over current bank accounts. and its not 'government monitored' at every level like some tinfoil hat speculators say..
seems people need to try to learn about CBDC. becasue its not going to go away. (unlike some peoples altnets and altcoins can)
..
the way i see it. central banks/governments will always have their own currency. whether its paper or digital. its their 'product'.. 200 years ago it was gold, 600 years ago it was something else. there always was and has been some form of a government scheme even as far back as kings and pharaohs

bitcoin will remain to hedge against it. even if there are some in this community trying too dang hard to call bitcoin a bad network to advertise another network that works just like a CBDC will

[pooya87]

fun fact faccebook is public.

Not all of it.

fun fact the campaign organisers DO have "separatist" rebellion/radicalisation tendencies. research the 'wexit' connection to the campaign organisers
its not that random people 'liked' a trucker protest post.
its that they liked a post related to the political radicalists other motivations.. (where by the radicalists also organised a trucker protest)

You are just trying to justify the dictatorship. The "fact" if you have ever bothered to do some research, is that it had nothing to do with radicalism or even any anti-government move. The cases are simple as liking a photo of truckers protesting mandatory jabs some of them on private profiles.

so if someone knocks on your door. its not because you have sympathy for the truckers not being able to work. its because you sound like a rebel that likes the separatists agenda.

lol why would I even care about internal politics of Canada? It's just funny to me to see regimes of countries that talk so much about freedom of speech and human rights brutally violate both of them in suppressing people protesting mandatory jabs or those sympathizing with them!

[franky1]

You are just trying to justify the dictatorship. The "fact" if you have ever bothered to do some research, is that it had nothing to do with radicalism or even any anti-government move. The cases are simple as liking a photo of truckers protesting mandatory jabs some of them on private profiles.

moved response to different topic

[Wind_FURY]

Plus the gaslighting-troll posts of “it’s just propaganda”, but under a centralized CBDC system, do CBDC holders have the freedom to donate their CBDCs to help the truckers? Or will they have their wallets locked? Those truckers are not criminals. Listen to the troll and learn, the hard way.