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Author Topic: Mtgox auto-signs with a 437522 BTC wallet?!?  (Read 3877 times)
Vandroiy
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December 06, 2011, 04:10:14 PM
 #1

Say, I pay someone using Mtgox withdrawal and see the payment getting filled by the following address:

http://blockexplorer.com/address/16eRAfcohaLsTzoDSnLejjqMZMDQezxFEi

What the...? Shouldn't such sums be in cold storage? That's something like 5% of all existing Bitcoins in a single key, who will pay if that key gets stolen?

Edit: hell, didn't Gox have "lol Bitcoins sent to null" before? That transaction transmitted the whole bunch of them, imagine a software error occurs there! Yes, the transfer happened with neat speed, quite fast for an operation that I would manually check if I was in the position of operating on more than 400k BTC.
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nmat
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December 06, 2011, 05:31:50 PM
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That's their job. Anyway, how is it possible to withdraw that many coins? Isn't there a daily limit?
Vandroiy
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December 06, 2011, 06:39:22 PM
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That's their job. Anyway, how is it possible to withdraw that many coins? Isn't there a daily limit?

LOL Grin

I didn't send the fortune; that was the "change" from my order, and it hopefully stayed with Mtgox. If you look at the transaction, there's 500 BTC going another way, that was the payment.

Hehe, I must appear to be quite the rich guy if you thought I withdrew 437k BTC and made a funny thread about it. Grin
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December 06, 2011, 07:04:14 PM
 #4

It does seem somewhat imprudent, but it's their business, not mine

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Vandroiy
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December 06, 2011, 07:26:31 PM
 #5

We should all be aware that if this goes wrong, nobody can expect to see their BTC on Mtgox again. They can't dig up >420k BTC from nowhere, it's beyond their capabilities.

The moment this key leaks, Mtgox is history. One little string to end it all.
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December 06, 2011, 07:30:14 PM
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Those coins are moved constantly.

terrytibbs
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December 06, 2011, 07:43:49 PM
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One little string to end it all.
Well played, sir
ineededausername
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December 07, 2011, 01:41:55 AM
 #8

What if mtgox screws up and sends all those bitcoins to the null address like they did with 2000 BTC a while ago?!
:O

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December 07, 2011, 04:59:36 AM
 #9

What if mtgox screws up and sends all those bitcoins to the null address like they did with 2000 BTC a while ago?!
:O
Then all our BTC are instantly worth more?

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boonies4u
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December 07, 2011, 05:18:24 AM
 #10

What if mtgox screws up and sends all those bitcoins to the null address like they did with 2000 BTC a while ago?!
:O
Then all our BTC are instantly worth more?

Unless the majority of your bitcoins are among those 437k.

I really think losing that much would be truly devastating to the economy, if not bitcoins themselves.
chickenado
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December 07, 2011, 09:34:04 AM
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What if mtgox screws up and sends all those bitcoins to the null address like they did with 2000 BTC a while ago?!
:O
Then all our BTC are instantly worth more?

Unless the majority of your bitcoins are among those 437k.

I really think losing that much would be truly devastating to the economy, if not bitcoins themselves.

In my estimation mtgox has approx. 10k active users, which means an average of 43 BTC per user. I suspect that a large part of that 437k belongs to day traders, who are well aware of the risk.  After all they continue to use mtgox even after being goxed several times.  They are the only ones who stand to incur big losses.

The typical, non-speculating mtgox user would probably only lose a handful of BTC.

I lost a handful of BTC with mybitcoin, which was annoying, but not the end of the world.
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December 07, 2011, 06:48:52 PM
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Say, I pay someone using Mtgox withdrawal and see the payment getting filled by the following address:

http://blockexplorer.com/address/16eRAfcohaLsTzoDSnLejjqMZMDQezxFEi

What the...? Shouldn't such sums be in cold storage? That's something like 5% of all existing Bitcoins in a single key, who will pay if that key gets stolen?

Edit: hell, didn't Gox have "lol Bitcoins sent to null" before? That transaction transmitted the whole bunch of them, imagine a software error occurs there! Yes, the transfer happened with neat speed, quite fast for an operation that I would manually check if I was in the position of operating on more than 400k BTC.

yes, should be  Roll Eyes

don't see any traffic on that address now, though.

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boonies4u
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December 07, 2011, 07:08:19 PM
 #13

In my estimation mtgox has approx. 10k active users, which means an average of 43 BTC per user. I suspect that a large part of that 437k belongs to day traders, who are well aware of the risk.  After all they continue to use mtgox even after being goxed several times.  They are the only ones who stand to incur big losses.

I just hope that if that if 437k were to be lost, that people aren't using mtgox as their personal wallet.
ineededausername
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December 07, 2011, 09:31:54 PM
 #14

what a terrifying prospect... and it's entirely possible. This is mtgox, after all.

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December 07, 2011, 10:04:20 PM
 #15

So, let's say 470,000+ BTC go MIA forever...should result in a nice little price increase.

On a related note, how do we know that 1,000,000 BTC haven't already been lost forever?  Is there a way to know exactly how many BTC are in circulation and not just how many have been created?

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December 07, 2011, 10:10:54 PM
 #16

Is there a way to know exactly how many BTC are in circulation and not just how many have been created?
No.

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Gabi
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December 07, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
 #17

We don't. Fun fact, a lot of the first 1.000.000 BTC created have a good chance to be lost, since back then they were almost worthless and lot of people just mined some and then uninstalled the software
gmaxwell
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December 07, 2011, 10:42:32 PM
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We don't. Fun fact, a lot of the first 1.000.000 BTC created have a good chance to be lost, since back then they were almost worthless and lot of people just mined some and then uninstalled the software

I can personally attest to this... played with it a bit in late-ish 2009— but since Bitcoin was GUI only it was a pain to use and I didn't bother understanding the technology early, I thought is was some typical p2p crap that is super vulnerable to sibyl attack, on so I didn't realize that it actually had a chance.  Lost interest and sometime later wiped the machine to upgrade the OS.

But mining and computers were also slower back then, so if you're guessing how much someone would have just based on the fact that it was difficulty 1 at that point you're probably assuming too much.

kjlimo
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December 08, 2011, 04:25:22 AM
 #19

So, let's say 470,000+ BTC go MIA forever...should result in a nice little price increase.

On a related note, how do we know that 1,000,000 BTC haven't already been lost forever?  Is there a way to know exactly how many BTC are in circulation and not just how many have been created?

1) Why do we need to know this information?

2) The market determines the value based on buying and selling.  Whether or not there are 1,000,000 BTC lost or not doesn't matter, b/c the supply & demand of the market will still even out.

This the same thing as stating that the federal reserve doesn't know how many US dollar bills have been lost.  It has an effect, but is evened out by captial markets anyway.

To the extent someone would "find" a bunch of coins and choose to sell them, it would hurt the price, but the market would even out.

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boonies4u
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December 08, 2011, 05:54:35 AM
 #20

So, let's say 470,000+ BTC go MIA forever...should result in a nice little price increase.

On a related note, how do we know that 1,000,000 BTC haven't already been lost forever?  Is there a way to know exactly how many BTC are in circulation and not just how many have been created?

1) Why do we need to know this information?

2) The market determines the value based on buying and selling.  Whether or not there are 1,000,000 BTC lost or not doesn't matter, b/c the supply & demand of the market will still even out.

This the same thing as stating that the federal reserve doesn't know how many US dollar bills have been lost.  It has an effect, but is evened out by captial markets anyway.

We probably will never notice that X coins were lost. (except in the case of coins sent to null addresses) They never truly leave the network. I suppose you could check block explorer to find addresses that have been inactive for a long time. There's no way you could no for sure if they could spring back up though.

Quote
To the extent someone would "find" a bunch of coins and choose to sell them, it would hurt the price, but the market would even out.

Well, it wouldn't take someone to find old coins to decide and dump the ones they did have.

What do you mean by "The market would even out"? Are you saying that it would return to the previous trading price? Or that the prices would eventually stabilize at some amount? If it's the latter, that much is obvious.
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