Slot Games' RTP, variable??

[Saint-loup]

Maybe this could be of help. This does not cover all games producers, but still...

Playngo: up to 6 RTP Variants between 99% – 84%
Pragmatic Play: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 96% – 87%.
Red Tiger: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 98% – 90%
Nolimit City: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Spinomenal: almost all games 4 RTP Variants 96% – 89%
Habanero: almost all games up to 4 RTP Variants between 98% – 92%
Swintt: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 95% – 92%
isoftBet: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 92%
Push Gaming: several games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 95%
Netent: many games up to 8 RTP Variants between 99% – 90%
Microgaming: several games 3 RTP Variants: 96% – 92%
Blueprint: a few games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Quickspin: a few Games 3 RTP Variants between 96% – 90%
Thunderkick:  One game 2 RTP Variants: 96% & % 94%
ELK: Can't be adjusted
Yggdrasil: Can't be adjusted

That's a very interesting and accurate list but how did you find those figures? It's something you've found yourself by playing at different casinos, or it comes from private datas for professional only? It's very surprising to learn there are providers offering up to 8 RTP variants. I guessed it was 2 or 3 variants at most.

You have no data for Hacksaw and OneTouch btw? Because ultraBTC has posted a list of providers offering only one single RTP above and those two providers don't appear there either.

No - there are software providers with a  fix RTP for every slot/casino game. But many of them offer multiple RTP versions.
Some of the providers that actually have ONE fix RTP version of the game(s) are:

Big Time Gaming
Relax Gaming
YGGDRASIL
Elk Studios
Iron Dog Studios
Nextgen Gaming
Kalamba Games

[velzevul11]

Maybe this could be of help. This does not cover all games producers, but still...

Playngo: up to 6 RTP Variants between 99% – 84%
Pragmatic Play: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 96% – 87%.
Red Tiger: almost all games up to 5 RTP Variants between 98% – 90%
Nolimit City: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Spinomenal: almost all games 4 RTP Variants 96% – 89%
Habanero: almost all games up to 4 RTP Variants between 98% – 92%
Swintt: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 95% – 92%
isoftBet: almost all games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 92%
Push Gaming: several games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 95%
Netent: many games up to 8 RTP Variants between 99% – 90%
Microgaming: several games 3 RTP Variants: 96% – 92%
Blueprint: a few games 2 RTP Variants: 96% & 94%
Quickspin: a few Games 3 RTP Variants between 96% – 90%
Thunderkick:  One game 2 RTP Variants: 96% & % 94%
ELK: Can't be adjusted
Yggdrasil: Can't be adjusted

That's a very interesting and accurate list but how did you find those figures? It's something you've found yourself by playing at different casinos, or it comes from private datas for professional only? It's very surprising to learn there are providers offering up to 8 RTP variants. I guessed it was 2 or 3 variants at most.

You have no data for Hacksaw and OneTouch btw? Because ultraBTC has posted a list of providers offering only one single RTP above and those two providers don't appear there either.

No - there are software providers with a  fix RTP for every slot/casino game. But many of them offer multiple RTP versions.
Some of the providers that actually have ONE fix RTP version of the game(s) are:

Big Time Gaming
Relax Gaming
YGGDRASIL
Elk Studios
Iron Dog Studios
Nextgen Gaming
Kalamba Games

I am a retired gambling professional and also gamble myself, so both A lot of info I know, but there quite a few casinos that publish the info like this. Google Coolbet, that's a fiat casino, in their casino section they have an RTP calculator where they cover those things and to my experience that info is correct. Btw, in many cases it is not 100% of games that are adjustable, but rather some, though usually the list is quite long. No idea about Hacksaw and and Onetouch unfortunately. Just a guess, I'd say those guys have no way to adjust RTP, but that's not for sure. Onetouch is a sister company to Bitcasino.io and these guys have rather been transparent for many years. Hacksaw for long time catered their games via Relax and Relaxs does not allow to adjust RTP. Now they are going direct integrations as well, so I am not entirely sure.

[Betwrong]

~
I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.

Your experience is surprising because when the hit ratio is low it's very quickly noticeable for the players usually. Quicker than a low RTP IMO.

You're probably right, but I was talking about my experience with slots of high and low RTP. Hit ratio is something similar to slot volatility, no? On low volatility slots hit rates are higher, but, on average, you are getting lower payouts on your hits. On high volatility slots you are rewarded less frequently, but you can get some really big wins(my favourite kind of slots).

And you are right, my experience is surprising, but that's how I feel. Maybe it's just because of my expectations, when after playing high volatility slots I expect much higher hit ratio on low volatility ones than I'm getting in reality.

[danadc]

~
I'll say from my own experience. I play different slots with various RTP, including Mega Moolah with 88% RTP seeing it like buying a lottery ticket, and, with the exception of Mega Moolah, I have never felt the difference. I mean, high volatility slots still providing you with small wins, and the frequency of those wins are often higher than on low volatility slots. Just recently I lost almost 20 bets in a row on a low volatility slot. This never happened to me when I was playing Money Train 2, and I played that slot a lot.

Your experience is surprising because when the hit ratio is low it's very quickly noticeable for the players usually. Quicker than a low RTP IMO.

You're probably right, but I was talking about my experience with slots of high and low RTP. Hit ratio is something similar to slot volatility, no? On low volatility slots hit rates are higher, but, on average, you are getting lower payouts on your hits. On high volatility slots you are rewarded less frequently, but you can get some really big wins(my favourite kind of slots).

And you are right, my experience is surprising, but that's how I feel. Maybe it's just because of my expectations, when after playing high volatility slots I expect much higher hit ratio on low volatility ones than I'm getting in reality.

How did you achieve such an experience? I can't believe that you have such a good level in slots, I'm honest, it's the worst for me in slots, it seems impressive to me that every time I play, I lose everything, I don't think that's something normal, it is that yes I bet with little money too, but I have seen in threads that there are teragamoneds bettors who win a lot with little, is that true according to your experience? seeing that you have all that experience, do you know a lot about RTP, and the value you speak of is very true, if then the RTP is high, then the profits are lower? something like that I understood, but it seems to me that it is somewhat confusing.

[minime0105]

-snip-

I really like this type of threads because it will make you think about the sites to choose to play and deal with. I am honestly not so educated about this topic, and through reading the replies here, made me realize of the misconceptions that I have been holding to for a long time now. I hope that you will update here about your separate thread @ultraBTC.

Interesting, actually a thread that makes you think positively really have meaning. If you are not educated through the thread, i think the best thing you should do is to make a research concerning what you don't know, because i believe that making research it will makes you determine totally to know what you don't no through your determination, and i believe that it has gone and it has gone forever, so therefore education those notes end with someone opinion at least you will make your own findings

[Betwrong]

~

How did you achieve such an experience? I can't believe that you have such a good level in slots, I'm honest, it's the worst for me in slots, it seems impressive to me that every time I play, I lose everything,

It depends on how many spins you do per your slots session. If it's around a hundred spins, it's practically impossible for all of them to be not winning at least something.

I don't think that's something normal, it is that yes I bet with little money too,

Yes, losing everything all the time is definitely not normal. Betting with little money is a good way to prolong your session without losing all your balance, and you also can hit something great along the way. My personal record so far is 934x of my bet



But I'm sure you can beat it. After all, it all depends on luck, and wish you good luck, my friend!

But remember, you should not risk more money than you can afford to lose. Apart from a chance of winning big, there's always a chance of losing all your balance, so, keep that in mind.

[Danydee]

 That's remind me of those slot games with no (maximum hit),
correct me if I'm wrong, but belonging to the RTPs indicated.. the fact/possibility that you can hit some bonus rounds and continue to theorically win unlimited amount is/will surely affecting the regular or (middle) returns on those games !!
 /and can lead to burning your balance in no time!


Thats remind me also of an user that won a very huge amount on a slot game and the casino just locked his account.. (he created a topic here on the forum about that).. after negotiating with the casino he accepted to get paid of an amount equivalent to something like just 10% the amount he won maybe (I don't remember exactly) and in addition repartited in several instalments !

[Betwrong]

That's remind me of those slot games with no (maximum hit),
correct me if I'm wrong, but belonging to the RTPs indicated.. the fact/possibility that you can hit some bonus rounds and continue to theorically win unlimited amount is/will surely affecting the regular or (middle) returns on those games !!
 /and can lead to burning your balance in no time!

I don't understand how winning additional bonus rounds can lead to burning your balance. Please explain.

As for the RTP of those slots where you can win an unlimited amount of free spins(I actually think it's limited at a certain number), I think all those wins will be taken into account when regulators/auditors carry out verification of whether the stated RTP is equal to the real one.

Thats remind me also of an user that won a very huge amount on a slot game and the casino just locked his account.. (he created a topic here on the forum about that).. after negotiating with the casino he accepted to get paid of an amount equivalent to something like just 10% the amount he won maybe (I don't remember exactly) and in addition repartited in several instalments !

This is an interesting story, I didn't read it. It must a really huge amount if even 10% of that was paid in several installments. Can you share a link?

[Danydee]

I don't understand how winning additional bonus rounds can lead to burning your balance. Please explain.

As for the RTP of those slots where you can win an unlimited amount of free spins(I actually think it's limited at a certain number), I think all those wins will be taken into account when regulators/auditors carry out verification of whether the stated RTP is equal to the real one.

 If there is no a maximum theorical cap for winnings hit, it can affect negatively the (medium returns), or those average or medium wins that allows you to play and wager higher amount than your bance..

 The fact that an unlimited win can really occur mean also that you can place unlimited amounts without any win..

 
 Let me give you an example.. For the game "Sweet Bonanza" for example, as they say:



 Additionally to that, during the bonus rounds hitting 3 or more lollipops give you an extra 5 free spins.. so it can continue indefinitely
 so each and both the facts points to that there is no a maximum possible win !



 
  For the calculation, if we take for example a random number generator, and consider just the one digit number on the right.. then the probability to get each digit at this position is 1 per 10.... then the probability calculus is here, but there is still chance, or possibility to get one or ever more digits never drawn at this position.. !

This is an interesting story, I didn't read it. It must a really huge amount if even 10% of that was paid in several installments. Can you share a link?

 I tried to recover the thread.. but it is dated from about three years of now, I will give it another try..
 
 He have get that on some game related to (Olympus gods), and I think that could maybe was a Pragmatic game as he posted a reply of his win.  he was playing at $3 single bet ( or $30 ), and he get constant bonuses activated during the bonus round.. this like till hitting a very huge amount.
 
 I remember at the end, LoyceV asked him how he accepted to renounce and accept the small "consolation" amount they give him, but he didn't respond.



edit

[LUCKMCFLY]

-snip-

I really like this type of threads because it will make you think about the sites to choose to play and deal with. I am honestly not so educated about this topic, and through reading the replies here, made me realize of the misconceptions that I have been holding to for a long time now. I hope that you will update here about your separate thread @ultraBTC.

Interesting, actually a thread that makes you think positively really have meaning. If you are not educated through the thread, i think the best thing you should do is to make a research concerning what you don't know, because i believe that making research it will makes you determine totally to know what you don't no through your determination, and i believe that it has gone and it has gone forever, so therefore education those notes end with someone opinion at least you will make your own findings

Always everything that is teaching and learning for me is something welcome, especially for slots, for a high RTP I have realized that the rewards are not that high, but a low RTP yes, so there are many things that we Sometimes as ignorant players, at first, I didn't even know what RTP was, or what that number was like? sometimes I went in and saw that number but I didn't care, I thought it was a slot code to identify it inside the casino or something similar, I never thought it was something to identify, these things are what make it more favorable and more entertaining of the game, the more you know about something, it will always be very good.

[Danydee]

This is an interesting story, I didn't read it. It must a really huge amount if even 10% of that was paid in several installments. Can you share a link?

 I found it, here is a discussion thread about it,,
the user edited his posts and talked about a settlement.. what bitcasino denied and talk about fraudulent manipulation of the game.

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5260832.0

[Betwrong]

~

 If there is no a maximum theorical cap for winnings hit, it can affect negatively the (medium returns), or those average or medium wins that allows you to play and wager higher amount than your bance..

 The fact that an unlimited win can really occur mean also that you can place unlimited amounts without any win..

Let me give you an example.. For the game "Sweet Bonanza" for example, as they say:



 Additionally to that, during the bonus rounds hitting 3 or more lollipops give you an extra 5 free spins.. so it can continue indefinitely
 so each and both the facts points to that there is no a maximum possible win !

Now I see what you meant to say. Thanks for the explanation!

Indeed, theoretically, you can be rolling forever without any win, and, of course, the opposite can happen. Yet in reality we don't know such cases, right? I mean, even something close to "forever", like 100k winning spins, this has never happened to anyone.

And still I think that if someone hit a very long winning streak, it can't affect medium returns because those things are totally unrelated.

[ultraBTC]

Hi @ultraBTC , Hi everyone

Could I ask you, how do providers are paid ? Do they're taking percentage of the edge ??

Hi @Danydee, sry just catching up with this thread/topic. In short, the answer is yes. They do take percentage of the edge.

There might be different models, but in the end, they take % of GGR. For example, 10% GGR (gross gaming revenue).

[ultraBTC]

Hacksaw for long time catered their games via Relax and Relaxs does not allow to adjust RTP. Now they are going direct integrations as well, so I am not entirely sure.

Related to Relax - an update. Unfortunately, Relax Gaming introduced lower RTP settings model (around 94%) earlier this year. Bad news, since Relax is a top-notch provider. If you are playing Relax slots, be sure to double check slot RTP to be sure its a default/top one.

[Haunebu]

Legit casinos display the RTP of their slot games which is usually the real deal and they don't try and cheat their customers since they are aware of the fact that cheating could end their business in a flash.

On the other hand, scam sites do tweak their slot game RTPs and will never reveal this truth for obvious reasons. This is why research is crucial when choosing sites to gamble in.

[Danydee]

 Yes, just to bo sure I am clear enough..
 
 Just the possibility that an extra big win can theorically really occur mean that it meed something to cover/pay it!


 For example the game Jammin Jars run in someway similar to the Sweet Bonanza tumbling,  and they capping the maximum win per round/bet to about 20,000×.

 Just to get an idea about the (magnitude),
some NOLIMIT games are capped to a maximum 66,000 × per single bet, and the chances to thats occur are about 1 on 18 millions.. like for winning the french lotto!

[LUCKMCFLY]

That's remind me of those slot games with no (maximum hit),
correct me if I'm wrong, but belonging to the RTPs indicated.. the fact/possibility that you can hit some bonus rounds and continue to theorically win unlimited amount is/will surely affecting the regular or (middle) returns on those games !!
 /and can lead to burning your balance in no time!


Thats remind me also of an user that won a very huge amount on a slot game and the casino just locked his account.. (he created a topic here on the forum about that).. after negotiating with the casino he accepted to get paid of an amount equivalent to something like just 10% the amount he won maybe (I don't remember exactly) and in addition repartited in several instalments !

I really didn't know about that case, it's something curious, it's that the amount must have been astronomical, but I imagine it's because he took it with a lot of RTP, for me this RTP is a very important number, for me it defines many things, now Well, if I understand correctly the RTOP when it is very high, then the pay is low, for a low RTP the profit is low, right? There should always be a great balance in all this, for this reason it is something that I am always interested in knowing, I am a very active slot machine player, and this type of thread is learned a lot, with respect to what is said about the RTP is something that some casinos take into account and can be a source of competition between them.

[Betwrong]

 Yes, just to bo sure I am clear enough..
 
 Just the possibility that an extra big win can theorically really occur mean that it meed something to cover/pay it!


 For example the game Jammin Jars run in someway similar to the Sweet Bonanza tumbling,  and they capping the maximum win per round/bet to about 20,000×.

 Just to get an idea about the (magnitude),
some NOLIMIT games are capped to a maximum 66,000 × per single bet, and the chances to thats occur are about 1 on 18 millions.. like for winning the french lotto!

This is very interesting to me, actually, because it's very hard to find a reliable info on this subject. Can it mean that when people are saying that if a big Jackpot won on a slot, you shouldn't expect another big win on this slot any time soon? I mean, how does this fit with the notion that "all spins are independent" and stuff?

[ultraBTC]

[Can it mean that when people are saying that if a big Jackpot won on a slot, you shouldn't expect another big win on this slot any time soon?

No. This shouldn't be the case with any truly random slot game. Any past event doesn't have influence on future event.

In other words, if your chance for a jackpot is 1:1000000. On every spin it is still 1:1000000, no matter if jackpot has been won seconds or months ago by other player.

[janggernaut]

[Can it mean that when people are saying that if a big Jackpot won on a slot, you shouldn't expect another big win on this slot any time soon?

No. This shouldn't be the case with any truly random slot game. Any past event doesn't have influence on future event.

In other words, if your chance for a jackpot is 1:1000000. On every spin it is still 1:1000000, no matter if jackpot has been won seconds or months ago by other player.

And vice versa, you might be hit the jackpot even though there are just user who hit the jackpot before your bet. If your chance is exactly like that, better don't play slot or it will just ruin your bankroll. People thinking they can always win in slot game or if they can survive for long time, which they think have beaten it, which obviously not.
To any people out there, don't easily believe with someone posted he hitted the jackpot, you never know whats behind them.