Where are the guts of NATO & the US?

[ibminer]

It appears the "strategy" from NATO & US's actions are going to be allowing Russia to walk in and take over Ukraine / the government, through force, and then will start negotiating to protect the NATO countries around them..?  Why in the hell are the citizens of the Ukraine being sacrificed while we freeze some bank accounts?

Do we really think Putin cares about the sanctions right now..?  Maybe he cares about them in a month from now, but by then how many innocent people would have died?  How much destruction will be caused? How much momentum will a mad man gain by such a minimal response to an invasion?.. is a precedent being set?  How different will (worse) could this situation be in 1 month?

When Biden was asked today by a reporter: "You're confident that these "devastating" sanctions are going to be as devastating as Russian missiles, bullets & tanks?"
Biden: "Yyes, Russian bullets, missiles, and tanks in Ukraine. Yes, I am."  

We aren't even using the full force and capability of the sanctions.. Biden wouldn't answer when asked why he won't sanction Putin today.

He did however respond to:
Reporter: "Respectfully, Sir.. what more are you waiting for?" (relating to SWIFT/Putin not sanctioned)
Biden: "The sanctions we imposed exceed SWIFT.".... "Let's have another conversation in a month or so and see how they've worked out"

I'm disappointed. I feel very bad for the citizens of Ukraine and the soldiers of Russia, and it's truly sad to think how many lives are already lost, and how many future one's are at stake. God speed.

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[af_newbie]

It appears the "strategy" from NATO & US's actions are going to be allowing Russia to walk in and take over Ukraine / the government, through force, and then will start negotiating to protect the NATO countries around them..?  Why in the hell are the citizens of the Ukraine being sacrificed while we freeze some bank accounts?

Do we really think Putin cares about the sanctions right now..?  Maybe he cares about them in a month from now, but by then how many innocent people would have died?  How much destruction will be caused? How much momentum will a mad man gain by such a minimal response to an invasion?.. is a precedent being set?  How different will (worse) could this situation be in 1 month?

When Biden was asked today by a reporter: "You're confident that these "devastating" sanctions are going to be as devastating as Russian missiles, bullets & tanks?"
Biden: "Yyes, Russian bullets, missiles, and tanks in Ukraine. Yes, I am."  

We aren't even using the full force and capability of the sanctions.. Biden wouldn't answer when asked why he won't sanction Putin today.

He did however respond to:
Reporter: "Respectfully, Sir.. what more are you waiting for?" (relating to SWIFT/Putin not sanctioned)
Biden: "The sanctions we imposed exceed SWIFT.".... "Let's have another conversation in a month or so and see how they've worked out"

I'm disappointed. I feel very bad for the citizens of Ukraine and the soldiers of Russia, and it's truly sad to think how many lives are already lost, and how many future one's are at stake. God speed.

It is funny and sad at the same time.

US tries to avoid WWIII without realizing that Putin has already started it.

Next stop, give us Alaska back.

[cmg777]

It appears the "strategy" from NATO & US's actions are going to be allowing Russia to walk in and take over Ukraine / the government, through force, and then will start negotiating to protect the NATO countries around them..?  Why in the hell are the citizens of the Ukraine being sacrificed while we freeze some bank accounts?

Do we really think Putin cares about the sanctions right now..?  Maybe he cares about them in a month from now, but by then how many innocent people would have died?  How much destruction will be caused? How much momentum will a mad man gain by such a minimal response to an invasion?.. is a precedent being set?  How different will (worse) could this situation be in 1 month?

When Biden was asked today by a reporter: "You're confident that these "devastating" sanctions are going to be as devastating as Russian missiles, bullets & tanks?"
Biden: "Yyes, Russian bullets, missiles, and tanks in Ukraine. Yes, I am."  

We aren't even using the full force and capability of the sanctions.. Biden wouldn't answer when asked why he won't sanction Putin today.

He did however respond to:
Reporter: "Respectfully, Sir.. what more are you waiting for?" (relating to SWIFT/Putin not sanctioned)
Biden: "The sanctions we imposed exceed SWIFT.".... "Let's have another conversation in a month or so and see how they've worked out"

I'm disappointed. I feel very bad for the citizens of Ukraine and the soldiers of Russia, and it's truly sad to think how many lives are already lost, and how many future one's are at stake. God speed.

It is funny and sad at the same time.

US tries to avoid WWIII without realizing that Putin has already started it.

Next stop, give us Alaska back.

 Yep everyone will be focused on Russia Russia Russia. The US/UK/EU will go to war with them while letting China nab Taiwan sight unseen because China does no wrong because the west moved their labor there. Nothing to see there.... Another thing that will happen is the power will go out in many western countries and the blame will go to Russia when it was all an inside job by the global elite for further control and dominance.

[suchmoon]

We aren't even using the full force and capability of the sanctions.. Biden wouldn't answer when asked why he won't sanction Putin today.

I'm guessing it's either some calculation that stronger sanctions would enrage Putin even more and/or options should be left available if the invasion proceeds - but there is no sign that it wouldn't proceed or that Putin is not sufficiently enraged already, so that probably doesn't make sense - or there is some hard lobbying by businesses that have a lot to lose if e.g. SWIFT transfers are closed. Stock market was very bullish today after the announcement, go figure.

[af_newbie]

We aren't even using the full force and capability of the sanctions.. Biden wouldn't answer when asked why he won't sanction Putin today.

I'm guessing it's either some calculation that stronger sanctions would enrage Putin even more and/or options should be left available if the invasion proceeds - but there is no sign that it wouldn't proceed or that Putin is not sufficiently enraged already, so that probably doesn't make sense - or there is some hard lobbying by businesses that have a lot to lose if e.g. SWIFT transfers are closed. Stock market was very bullish today after the announcement, go figure.

I think the way he attacked Ukraine just shows that he is completely unhinged. He does not care about the sanctions or the economic hardships that ordinary Russians will suffer.

In my estimation, he just wants a place in history as a great Russian leader who restored the Russian Empire.

Unfortunately for him, he will be remembered as an ex-KGB Soviet leader who lost his marbles, tried to re-create the USSR, and started WWIII.

Any of the Western leaders who will try to negotiate with Putin in the future should resign and check themselves into a mental institution.

The West should issue an international arrest warrant for this guy, capture and execute him.

[pooya87]

I'm disappointed. I feel very bad for the citizens of Ukraine and the soldiers of Russia, and it's truly sad to think how many lives are already lost, and how many future one's are at stake. God speed.

Your problem is that you found out there is a Ukraine after Russia invaded it and your media started talking about it in a scary tone, instead of years ago when the problems began. Let me ask you this, what would US do if Russia kept selling weapons to a US neighbor like Cuba and was planning on building their nuclear weapons? The answer is simple, the same thing Russia is doing today.
Same thing is happening with China and Taiwan and I don't see anybody complaining about the escalation with the weapons US keeps selling Taiwan until China invades and is blamed!!!

Where are the guts of NATO & the US?
It's pretty simple politics, they don't give a crap about Ukraine. They were just using it as a source of income (weapons sale) and were hoping to use it as strategic land some day. The project failed and there is no reason to get involved now.
On top of that US military and its allies are at their weakest right now, I'd say one of the weakest in the world. It is evident with all the defeats they've been experiencing over the past 2 decades mainly in West Asia. They weren't even facing any military and yet they were defeated! How are they going to go against an actual military, and a super power for that?

[Rruchi man]

Let me ask you this, what would US do if Russia kept selling weapons to a US neighbor like Cuba and was planning on building their nuclear weapons? The answer is simple, the same thing Russia is doing today.
Same thing is happening with China and Taiwan and I don't see anybody complaining about the escalation with the weapons US keeps selling Taiwan until China invades and is blamed!!!

The United States sometimes is a bully country that bullies other countries with threats of the military and sanctions. They are not always right, and in this case i feel the US has not handled this issue well enough. You can't bully a country like Russia and get anything you want anytime, if Russia says they don't want NATO at their backyard, why stress it when you know that there is a long history between this two countries (Russia and Ukraine). US will react the same way if there was a perceived threat to their National Security. I don't want this getting escalated everything will be affected and this is not the time for it.

[Poker Player]

-snip

What you call no having guts I call having a brain. While he may not have uttered the words "nuclear weapons", Putin has clearly threatened that if any country meddled in Ukraine he was going to respond immediately with a nuclear strike.

I don't know if you prefer NATO to have guts and start dropping a few thousand nuclear bombs on each side.

One would think if he is bluffing and faced with the prospect of total destruction, if the US or another NATO ally were to send troops into Ukraine, he would ultimately not launch a nuclear strike. But it doesn't seem very smart to try to catch the bluff in this situation.

[af_newbie]

-snip

What you call no having guts I call having a brain. While he may not have uttered the words "nuclear weapons", Putin has clearly threatened that if any country meddled in Ukraine he was going to respond immediately with a nuclear strike.

I don't know if you prefer NATO to have guts and start dropping a few thousand nuclear bombs on each side.

One would think if he is bluffing and faced with the prospect of total destruction, if the US or another NATO ally were to send troops into Ukraine, he would ultimately not launch a nuclear strike. But it doesn't seem very smart to try to catch the bluff in this situation.

What is another option?  Sit and watch him?  He is going to use the same threat when he attacks Poland, Romania, and Lithuania.
What are you going to do then?  Not call his bluff?

NATO has to start bombing Russian positions in Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia right now.  That is a proper response.
Not talk about sanctions, or talk with your NATO partners.  There is nothing to talk about.  Bombing Russian military positions is the
only sensible option.  Anything else is just pissing in the wind.

If they don't, he will know that they never will, so he will continue annexing countries and rebuilding his dream USSR gulag.

[Poker Player]

What is another option?  Sit and watch him?  He is going to use the same threat when he attacks Poland, Romania, and Lithuania.
What are you going to do then?  Not call his bluff?

Have you seen that in your crystal ball?

NATO has to start bombing Russian positions in Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia right now. 

This very morning NATO is going to meet urgently to listen to you and start bombing.

[af_newbie]

What is another option?  Sit and watch him?  He is going to use the same threat when he attacks Poland, Romania, and Lithuania.
What are you going to do then?  Not call his bluff?

Have you seen that in your crystal ball?

NATO has to start bombing Russian positions in Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia right now.  

This very morning NATO is going to meet urgently to listen to you and start bombing.

I fucking called it a month ago exactly how he is going to attack Ukraine when every Dick and Mary were 'talking and reaching an agreement of understanding' with Russia.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg59065460#msg59065460

[laredo7mm]

Do we really think Putin cares about the sanctions right now..?  Maybe he cares about them in a month from now, but by then how many innocent people would have died?  How much destruction will be caused? How much momentum will a mad man gain by such a minimal response to an invasion?.. is a precedent being set?  How different will (worse) could this situation be in 1 month?

Putin doesn't care about US sanctions because he was prepared for them for a long time. Russia has only 16% of its reserve in USD. It's a huge country that has the technology to survive without any foreign help. Despite this Putin make a deal with China to trade and the market of china is so big that it can sustain Russia's economy. Putin knew attacking Ukraine would cause heavy sanctions from the west and he already prepared for this situation.

[Poker Player]

I fucking called it a month ago exactly how he is going to attack Ukraine when every Dick and Merry were 'talking and reaching an agreement of understanding' with Russia.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg59065460#msg59065460

I see. Then NATO has to listen to you and start bombing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world because you are able to see the future.

[af_newbie]

I fucking called it a month ago exactly how he is going to attack Ukraine when every Dick and Merry were 'talking and reaching an agreement of understanding' with Russia.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg59065460#msg59065460

I see. Then NATO has to listen to you and start bombing the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world because you are able to see the future.

You are missing the point.  Nuclear weapons will be used whether you like them or not.

He will not stop.  If you think he will stop, you are naive.  Hoping is not a military strategy.

[Poker Player]

You are missing the point.  Nuclear weapons will be used whether you like them or not.

He will not stop.  If you think he will stop, you are naive.  Hoping is not a military strategy.

What is clear to me is that with people who think like you the world would not have existed for a few decades. The cold war would have ended in total nuclear war.

[Synchronice]

Let me explain, the USA and Europe have a comfortable life and don't want to mess with this. They are deep in their comfort zone and strictly don't want to come out from this.

They have guts in fairy-tale-like statements and conferences, when it comes to reality they don't show their guts. I believe, without doubt, western countries are on another level in every aspect compared to Russia but they just don't want to leave their comfort zone until someone directly touches them, they want to avoid this as much as possible and that's very bad!

Ukraine needs our help, if we don't help Ukraine, that means that every country will be punished if they want to integrate Western values and become a part of our family. Russia proves that every country will be punished for that!
The USA and Europe have to understand that you can't be a democrat towards the country that has jungle rules.

If Ukraine failed, then it's sure that Moldova and Georgia will fail and Russian empire will grow and become even more confident and powerful and USA & Europe will become even more pussy.

I don't really understand why Americans choose an old man that has Dementia and can't even properly think & walk.

US tries to avoid WWIII without realizing that Putin has already started it.

Next stop, give us Alaska back.

Sure! I hope that will happen, otherwise, America won't wake up in reality. I don't really want to think that they are such a pussy to give up on Alaska.

[Verziro]

This situation is the fault of the EU/NATO/The West. After the WW, these countries could have taken the opportunity to become neutral - favour neither the US nor Russia/Eastern Bloc.  

Instead, NATO took the opportunity post-war to expand Eastward, whilst conducting military ops in Serbia and Libya - countries far away from the North Atlantic. NATO stands for the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, yet they've been continuously expanding East over the last few decades, conducting ops in Middle Eastern & Eastern European countries, countries that used to belong to the Soviet Union.

Ukraine are a long way from the North Atlantic, yet the US and Ukraine are so adamant in joining forces - why wouldn't Russia see this as a threat? Russia have a second-rate economy, the only scope they have is aggression, so I don't understand why people are surprised. Putin has been very clear about his intentions - he wants to revivify the Soviet Empire at the distaste of NATO. Whilst I obviously do not agree with Putin's actions, I am part Moldovan which is a very pro-European state, I can't help but think that the West have been 'gaslighting' Russia and the 'East' (Iran, China, etc) for decades. The West underestimate Russia and these Eastern countries so much to the extent that we've been dealing with Russia, made deals with China, Iran, the Taliban, and then we're surprised when those deals aren't adhered to?

We as the West have this belief that everyone wants to live the way we do - freedom of speech, equal rights, etc - this is why we are so gullible when dealing with these Eastern countries.

Putin has been very smart when you consider all sides, Biden pulling out of Afghanistan for no reason was essentially a green-light for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia, and potentially/probably Taiwan by China. China are probably licking their lips looking at this situation - after all, they invaded Hong Kong last year and no one batted an eye.

Sanctions imply that military action is off the table. Putin knows this, but the West don't seem to understand that Putin can absorb basically any sanction you give him.

The West are weak, the US Government under Democratic leadership are weak - it's no coincidence that Putin has invaded during the last 3 Democratic offices, but not during Trump/Republican offices. Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the UK where I live, is delusional. Justin Trudeau is tyrannical. Macron is not sane and Germany are stuck on the fence. Knowing this, if you're Russia and China, what is actually stopping you from invading surrounding territories?

[evilgreed]

               The inevitable has happened. Right now, the US and the entirety of NATO are powerless over the actions of Russia. A little mistake would ignite a bigger problem. If the US along with the NATO didn't continually provoke Russia time and time again, they never would've even considered taking over Ukraine. Now that things has come to this, the only better option taht I see is to take steps or create plans that would lessen both the economical and structural damages and the casualties. I hope this time the US considers things more carefully.

[suchmoon]

~

I would suggest to get your head out of Putin's ass, it's unsanitary. He's lying about every bit of this "military operation", including his motives. Provoked little snowflake LOL.

[af_newbie]

This situation is the fault of the EU/NATO/The West. After the WW, these countries could have taken the opportunity to become neutral - favour neither the US nor Russia/Eastern Bloc.  

Instead, NATO took the opportunity post-war to expand Eastward, whilst conducting military ops in Serbia and Libya - countries far away from the North Atlantic. NATO stands for the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, yet they've been continuously expanding East over the last few decades, conducting ops in Middle Eastern & Eastern European countries, countries that used to belong to the Soviet Union.

Ukraine are a long way from the North Atlantic, yet the US and Ukraine are so adamant in joining forces - why wouldn't Russia see this as a threat? Russia have a second-rate economy, the only scope they have is aggression, so I don't understand why people are surprised. Putin has been very clear about his intentions - he wants to revivify the Soviet Empire at the distaste of NATO. Whilst I obviously do not agree with Putin's actions, I am part Moldovan which is a very pro-European state, I can't help but think that the West have been 'gaslighting' Russia and the 'East' (Iran, China, etc) for decades. The West underestimate Russia and these Eastern countries so much to the extent that we've been dealing with Russia, made deals with China, Iran, the Taliban, and then we're surprised when those deals aren't adhered to?

We as the West have this belief that everyone wants to live the way we do - freedom of speech, equal rights, etc - this is why we are so gullible when dealing with these Eastern countries.

Putin has been very smart when you consider all sides, Biden pulling out of Afghanistan for no reason was essentially a green-light for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia, and potentially/probably Taiwan by China. China are probably licking their lips looking at this situation - after all, they invaded Hong Kong last year and no one batted an eye.

Sanctions imply that military action is off the table. Putin knows this, but the West don't seem to understand that Putin can absorb basically any sanction you give him.

The West are weak, the US Government under Democratic leadership are weak - it's no coincidence that Putin has invaded during the last 3 Democratic offices, but not during Trump/Republican offices. Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the UK where I live, is delusional. Justin Trudeau is tyrannical. Macron is not sane and Germany are stuck on the fence. Knowing this, if you're Russia and China, what is actually stopping you from invading surrounding territories?

You are right about the sanctions.  The only thing Putin cannot absorb is bombs and bullets.

Unfortunately for Ukraine, they are left to fight alone.

There will be no boots on the ground from the West.  

If I were in NATO command I would immediately plan how to disable Crimea and Belarus.  
Take over Kaliningrad, blow up Nord Stream I and II.  Arrest and intern all Russian citizens abroad.

If I were in the Ukrainian army command, I would order scorched-earth policy, blow up all bridges, railroads, airports, and roads.  
Blow up all gas pipelines from Russia, destroy infrastructure. Prepare for a guerrilla war.